Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

yes, as you can see, dark iron are changed/mutated, by the power of ragnaros, therefore, not the same race anymore, unlike the wildhammer, void elves are very akin to dark iron in this stance, but you want then to be akin to wildhammer, again with the same false equivalence in an attempt at gotcha.

The difference with all of this, is that when it comes to the Elves and Dwarves - it's more of a political difference.

Nobody has changed race. The only Elves that have ever changed from one race to a complete other are the Highborne Night Elves, loyal to Azshara who were changed to Naga.
We've also got the same Highborne Night Elves, whereby some were changed by Sargeras into Saytr.

Dark Iron Dwarves and Void Elves are still Dwarves and Thalassian Elves.

Now, where I agree with you is that we can only RP a High Elf, as either a Blood Elf or Void Elf. My only Void Elf is a Void Elf Warrior, but I want to RP her as a High Elven Kirin'Tor Spellbreaker.

[elbleuet]

yes, as you can see, dark iron are changed/mutated, by the power of ragnaros, therefore, not the same race anymore, unlike the wildhammer, void elves are very akin to dark iron in this stance, but you want then to be akin to wildhammer, again with the same false equivalence in an attempt at gotcha.

Dark Iron dwarves did mutate ? Interesting news. Where's your source ? And what kind of mutation do you speak about ?

The official RPG provided by Blizzard only mentions some of them having their eyes glowing with red flames.

Blood elves endure the same thing with some of them getting golden eyes by being empowered by the Sunwell.

So where's your source ?

[Syegfryed]

Just like all your previous arguments to support your opposition to playable fair skinned, blue eyed Alliance High elves I suppose ?

They were not, and you were proved wrong by Blizzard.

i never had a problem with giving void elves white skin and blonde hair, as it is something i said they should do to end the problem(seems like it was not enough), my only problem was to add a third race of elves, so you are lying about my position.

Dark Iron dwarves did mutate ? Interesting news. Where's your source ? And what kind of mutation do you speak about ?

The official RPG provided by Blizzard only mentions some of them having their eyes glowing with red flames.

Blood elves endure the same thing with some of them getting golden eyes by being empowered by the Sunwell.

So where's your source ?

are you not seeing how their bead and hair are in flames, plus other several changes in their phisiology? this not just their eyes, they literally have the fireblood

The difference with all of this, is that when it comes to the Elves and Dwarves - it's more of a political difference.
Nobody has changed race. The only Elves that have ever changed from one race to a complete other are the Highborne Night Elves, loyal to Azshara who were changed to Naga.

you are partially right, what happens is both, political and race difference

the difference between a high and a blood elf is indeed mere politic, as blood elves are just high elves with another name, with dwarves, the wildhammer clan is the same kind of dwarf as the bronzebeard, there is no change in the race, like high/blood elves, it is just about their clan name.

But, A Dark iron is not the same as a bronzbeard/wildhammer as they are a new race of dwarf changed/mutated by the power of ragnaros, the same thing happens with void elves, as they are changed/mutated by the void.

We can draw more parallel with other races as well, a grimtotem tauren is the same kind of tauren as another tribe of mulgore, but the highmountain tauren are a different race of tauren changed/mutated by the bless of Cenarius. A warsong orc is the same orc as a frostwolf, but they are different from the maghar because they are changed/mutated by demon blood.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

And what are you not getting that the playable mechagnomes are the ones who used the "de-curse" ray? therefore, they having a significant distinction of normal gnomes that are not just replacing limbs? like, you don't play regular kul'tiran, you play the giant ones

No, they arent.

DID YOU READ THE COMIC?!?! Erazmin literally defected because his father wanted to use the de-curse ray to turn EVERYONE back to de-cursed and control them. We are literally AGAINST the use of the de-curse ray FFS.

How can you misread something SO HARD

All the arguments were solid, and were talk about over and over, you do not like then that is on you, but im not going to keep revisiting with this attempt at gaslight.

You can't even repeat your own argument, that's how weak it actually is. And shame on you for calling it "gaslighting", that's just low.

[Syegfryed]

No, they arent.

DID YOU READ THE COMIC?!?! Erazmin literally defected because his father wanted to use the de-curse ray to turn EVERYONE back to de-cursed and control them. We are literally AGAINST the use of the de-curse ray FFS.

How can you misread something SO HARD

He wanted turn everyone into full machines and they see they need to have a balance between man and machine, they still used the device, they just didn't become fully robots, they literally have organic light as someone with just a prosthetic limb you could not do, rofl, and im the one misreading?

You can't even repeat your own argument, that's how weak it actually is. And shame on you for calling it "gaslighting", that's just low.

im not going to repeat because it will be ignored and distort to fit your own narrative, i personally don't have time for circular logic anymore.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

He wanted turn everyone into full machines and they see they need to have a balance between man and machine, they still used the device, they just didn't become fully robots, they literally have organic light as someone with just a prosthetic limb you could not do, rofl, and im the one misreading?

YOU *clap emoji* DIDN'T *clap emoji* READ *clap emoji* THE *clap emoji* COMIC

The whole point of the comic is how they have being replacing their limbs and organs in a cyberpunk kinda way and only know Mechagon has created a ray that can remove the curse of flesh.

You keep bringing the "organic light" THAT'S ALSO A MODIFICATION THEY MADE TO THEMSELVES WITH TECHNOLOGY AHHHHH

im not going to repeat because it will be ignored and distort to fit your own narrative, i personally don't have time for circular logic anymore.

this a tricky one but most likely not yet, as an elf totally mutated by fel are red(the felblood elf), they would be floating in the half-elf/half-demon like illidan was once called since the power is pretty much from the "demon within". If the mutation/change is not totally, or can be reversed, isn't a new race yet, Like Gul'dan becoming a red hulk, maybe he would become a new race of fel orc, like the ones in outland, but there was not enough time, that is the grey area DH work.

Plus, if not convinced yet, is more or less a gameplay decision to balance things.

Brah. Your whole argument is based on the gameplay classification being prescriptive, you are literally bending everything to fit that, in spite of how illogical it is.

And even you finish with "is more or less a gameplay decision to balance things"

[Syegfryed]

YOU *clap emoji* DIDN'T *clap emoji* READ *clap emoji* THE *clap emoji* COMIC

The whole point of the comic is how they have being replacing their limbs and organs in a cyberpunk kinda way and only know Mechagon has created a ray that can remove the curse of flesh.

ah yes, the robot guy sure isn't lying, lets not forget that this is besides the point that you are nittpicking and my point is always how they and forsaken are big changes that make then no longer be what they were once before, you can't identify yourself as a forsaken, you have to die and be raised like one, you can't identify yourself as a mechagnome by mere being an engineer, you are literally ignoring the main point and fixating on this.

Brah. Your whole argument is based on the gameplay classification being prescriptive, you are literally bending everything to fit that, in spite of how illogical it is.

and you want to make then the same as void elves with a fallacy because they would support your narrative, like i said, it s pointless to discus over this

[Yarathir]

Don't forget to tell yourself that as well.

I will PM myself in a few hours to tell myself that.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

ah yes, the robot guy sure isn't lying, lets not forget that this is besides the point that you are nittpicking and my point is always how they and forsaken are big changes that make then no longer be what they were once before, you can't identify yourself as a forsaken, you have to die and be raised like one, you can't identify yourself as a mechagnome by mere being an engineer, you are literally ignoring the main point and fixating on this.

You really pulled the "well he's lying" JFC. You're hopeless.

And for the nth time you keep misrepresenting my point, that I have reinforced multiple times: "Biology alone does not a race make"

That's why it's so silly to define race in WoW solely by the biological component. If there is a valid conceptualization in WoW about race, it has to take into account both culture and society of the group. Biology alone does not a race make, nor is necessary according WoW itself. If Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, so are Maghar and Orcs.

But sure, just keep misrepresenting my point as being solely about self ID.

and you want to make then the same as void elves with a fallacy because they would support your narrative, like i said, it s pointless to discus over this

No man, bringing up context is not a fallacy.

If you think that mechagnomes are a new race despite lacking the biological differentiation that DH illidari, who have it, then the logical conclusion is that, AGAIN, "Biology alone does not a race make", nor is a biological distinction NECESSARY to be considered a different "race"

[Syegfryed]

You really pulled the "well he's lying" JFC. You're hopeless.

"hopeless", says the guy who refuse to understand the elf situation, i just said he is lying about the gnome being the only one he used the machine when the lore of the race says otherwise.

And for the nth time you keep misrepresenting my point, that I have reinforced multiple times: "Biology alone does not a race make"

No, you are the only one "misrepresenting my point" i said multiple times that biology is one of the things that defines a race and cannot be ignored, but you are working with absolutes here, you either think is biology alone or not, or that biology is "irrelevant and pointless" when its a conjunct, the only three races already mentioned, that does not rely on biology alone had straight up changes that does not let then be what they once were before. Why your void elf is a pure high elf then, why they are the special ones that its not mentioned in the lore or in their description?

in short, no new race is the same race with "a political difference" or a "self identity"., all of the playable race undergo a fundamental change that does not let then be what they were, there is no "im pure" or "im that one race but i self identify as the other one", you changed, period, in the case of void elves, nightborne and other is a mutation to a new race/species.

No man, bringing up context is not a fallacy.

what you talking about? the quote you highlight is literally a fallacy of false equivalence, maghar and orcs are literal different races, as green rocs are mutated by demon blood, while blood elves just change their name, blood elves are not high elves mutated, period

[Ardenaso]

The former only. I doubt any High elf would return to Quel'Thalas. They left it in the first place because they wanted to remain pure, and not be twisted and mutated by Fel magic.

It could be a Blood elf who somehow never got mutated by Fel magic, and thus retains their blue eye. But how this is possibly, I do not know. Maybe they were away from Quel'Thalas in TBC.

it could also be a Dalarani/Argent Crusade non-Silver Covenant High Elf who wishes to go back to Silvermoon, or a former Silver Covenant member who denounces their order and wishes to pledge loyalty again to Silvermoon, or a former Allerian/Highvale member who wants to reconnect with their kin rather than... whatever they're planning in their life, or a Blood Elf whose fel effects on their eyes have completely worn off.

[FlubberPuddy]

Dark iron are a different race of dwarf, Do you think it is absurd two races or species having baby with another race? did you know Garona? who had orc and draenei parents? by your logic draenei and orcs are the same race

is a fail attempt at gotcha

Actually you just played yourself even more.

Garona is literally referred to as a half-Orc/half-Draenei

Humans and elf babies are denoted as half-elves.

Where is Moira’s baby called a half-dwarf?half-dark iron????

Bonkers logic at play.

But I guess you can only continue being nonsensical about something else since all the “they’ll never add high elves options to void elves because it don’t make sense” arguments fell through.

Your logic is like if parent A has blue eyes and blonde hair and fair skin and parent B is brown eyes black hair and brown skin - then if child is completely looks like parent A that’s due to a “different race” of parents.

[Varodoc]

it could also be a Dalarani/Argent Crusade non-Silver Covenant High Elf who wishes to go back to Silvermoon, or a former Silver Covenant member who denounces their order and wishes to pledge loyalty again to Silvermoon, or a former Allerian/Highvale member who wants to reconnect with their kin rather than... whatever they're planning in their life, or a Blood Elf whose fel effects on their eyes have completely worn off.

It reminds me of that dude from the new Star Wars movies that renounced the First Order and joined the rebels.

Sounds Mary Sue-ish, but then again RPers are infamous for writing Mary Sues (looking at all the people RPing a Bronze Blue Dragon hybrid who uses a half man half elf as mortal form).

You'd better come up with an extremely good reason for how that guy/girl escaped the Silver Covenant; as, from what we have seen, the Silver Covenant are willing to feed traitors to sharks and are extremely vigilant.

[Ardenaso]

You'd better come up with an extremely good reason for how that guy/girl escaped the Silver Covenant; as, from what we have seen, the Silver Covenant are willing to feed traitors to sharks and are extremely vigilant.

with Khadgar back on the lead I'd doubt he'd allow that; also, I'd wager someone could leave "guys I think this is wrong" and not be a traitor if their departure gets approved

but then again I forgot at this point every Silver Covenant member would have their names and faces plastered all over Murder Row as undesirables wanted dead so perhaps that's off

also, perhaps not all Quel'lithien died as Renthar, Kirkian, Adon, and Kriss are still alive - that's one more RP option, so basically:

Blood Elf who lost their fel radiation
former Allerian
former Highvale
former non-SC Dalarani
former Argent Crusader
former Quel'lithien

I'd wager 7th Legion High Elves would be seen as traitors too and are also wanted so that's two

[Varodoc]

with Khadgar back on the lead I'd doubt he'd allow that; also, I'd wager someone could leave "guys I think this is wrong" and not be a traitor if their departure gets approved

but then again I forgot at this point every Silver Covenant member would have their names and faces plastered all over Murder Row as undesirables wanted dead so perhaps that's off

also, perhaps not all Quel'lithien died as Renthar, Kirkian, Adon, and Kriss are still alive - that's one more RP option, so basically:

Blood Elf who lost their fel radiation
former Allerian
former Highvale
former non-SC Dalarani
former Argent Crusader
former Quel'lithien

I'd wager 7th Legion High Elves would be seen as traitors too and are also wanted so that's two

Sure, all I'm saying is that if I were an elf in-universe in Warcraft I'd stay the fuck away from the Horde.

[Yarathir]

An orc enthusiast feverishly trying to gatekeep trying to play a High Elf page after page while proclaiming (iirc) to be apathetic towards or outright hate most elves. It's so.. strange.

[ravenmoon]

The difference with all of this, is that when it comes to the Elves and Dwarves - it's more of a political difference.

Nobody has changed race. The only Elves that have ever changed from one race to a complete other are the Highborne Night Elves, loyal to Azshara who were changed to Naga.
We've also got the same Highborne Night Elves, whereby some were changed by Sargeras into Saytr.

Dark Iron Dwarves and Void Elves are still Dwarves and Thalassian Elves.

Now, where I agree with you is that we can only RP a High Elf, as either a Blood Elf or Void Elf. My only Void Elf is a Void Elf Warrior, but I want to RP her as a High Elven Kirin'Tor Spellbreaker.

Indeed. And with regard to the changes night elves, we know Satyr is reversible.

And I have a deep suspicion that nags is reversible too. Although if I were blizz. I would give the “reversible” a chink - and say that whiles the alteration could be undone some sea life adaptations had made it into the core being - which will allow them to have an altered appearance like @Big Mama ‘s post on the Naz’dorei.

id love Blizzz to do something like that. Nags with an elf form and a Naha form. But unlike current Worgen, because the elf form is unique, you could choose at will which to be in combat. However whenever you go into water you will auto shift into Naga - but you can shift back. And when you mount, you will auto shift into elf form, but you can shift back.

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with Khadgar back on the lead I'd doubt he'd allow that; also, I'd wager someone could leave "guys I think this is wrong" and not be a traitor if their departure gets approved

but then again I forgot at this point every Silver Covenant member would have their names and faces plastered all over Murder Row as undesirables wanted dead so perhaps that's off

also, perhaps not all Quel'lithien died as Renthar, Kirkian, Adon, and Kriss are still alive - that's one more RP option, so basically:

Blood Elf who lost their fel radiation
former Allerian
former Highvale
former non-SC Dalarani
former Argent Crusader
former Quel'lithien

I'd wager 7th Legion High Elves would be seen as traitors too and are also wanted so that's two

Nothing to stop you from being a high elf on the horde with Auric Sunchaser. You are high elf but you support your people because you want them whole. You don’t care about the factions which is why you aren’t cut up about them being with the horde. And you don’t hate the alliance either.

That’s a role play horde high elf option.

you can also play half elf blood elf now

[Tanaria]

Indeed. And with regard to the changes night elves, we know Satyr is reversible.

And I have a deep suspicion that nags is reversible too. Although if I were blizz. I would give the “reversible” a chink - and say that whiles the alteration could be undone some sea life adaptations had made it into the core being - which will allow them to have an altered appearance like @Big Mama ‘s post on the Naz’dorei.

id love Blizzz to do something like that. Nags with an elf form and a Naha form. But unlike current Worgen, because the elf form is unique, you could choose at will which to be in combat. However whenever you go into water you will auto shift into Naga - but you can shift back. And when you mount, you will auto shift into elf form, but you can shift back.

The difference between Naga and Satyr is that Satyr were changed via fel magic.
Naga were changed via the Void and Old God magic.

We don't know, at this stage, whether a Naga who is alive, can be changed back to a Night Elf. If they were hatched and have always been Naga, then it would be impossible for them to revert back to a form, that they never had.
We do know, that Naga, such as Lady Vashj or Queen Azshara, who were born as Night Elves, do have the chance to revert back to their kaldorei forms, upon death. Vashj chose not to.

Now, as far as an extra race goes...I reckon that Naga aren't going to be playable and I'll explain why.
1) We've already go our "Void" affiliated elf. Why do we need two?
2) They've got beef with both the Alliance and the Horde. They HATE the Night Elves and Humans. They aren't keen on the Darkspear Trolls, the Nightborne or the Blood Elves. Only the current Illidari faction under Kayn, would take them in.

[ravenmoon]

The difference between Naga and Satyr is that Satyr were changed via fel magic.
Naga were changed via the Void and Old God magic.

We don't know, at this stage, whether a Naga who is alive, can be changed back to a Night Elf. If they were hatched and have always been Naga, then it would be impossible for them to revert back to a form, that they never had.
We do know, that Naga, such as Lady Vashj or Queen Azshara, who were born as Night Elves, do have the chance to revert back to their kaldorei forms, upon death. Vashj chose not to.

Now, as far as an extra race goes...I reckon that Naga aren't going to be playable and I'll explain why.
1) We've already go our "Void" affiliated elf. Why do we need two?
2) They've got beef with both the Alliance and the Horde. They HATE the Night Elves and Humans. They aren't keen on the Darkspear Trolls, the Nightborne or the Blood Elves. Only the current Illidari faction under Kayn, would take them in.

well aware. It is still quite possible it is reversible. Probably Elune could do it completely, but elves trying to do it may cause an incomplete reversion.

who knows. I’d like that to be. I think it would be interesting to explore. And we all know Naha have been hugely desired and elves quite popular.

As for having another void based race, so what? Naga elf would be more sea associated anyway. Besides how many “arcane “ based races or light based races or martial based races or death based ones do we have?

Void would just be a strength of the Naga elf, not their main thing. They’d naturally be great with arcane and elemental magics.

It would be exciting I think. The number of elven groups would get closer to humans.

I’d only do one additional one after that, the Worgen night elf group. Serving as the Worgen allied race but also the pure forest elf group which the night elves aren’t.

Night elves are the original elf group that have facets in many thing. Amongst the Darnassians it’s skewed forest currently because they’ve recently come out of the Long vigil, but it should move back to centre having balance between Arcane and Nature and the priesthood being an over bridge to the balance under bridge. Then the fel part through the Illidari Nelves and their undead wing through DKs/Ravencrests and dark rangers

Would love to see NElf Worgen with an elf form that has animal and tree features like faun legs on some, antlers on others, feathered arms for some, option keeper like wood clawed hands and leaves for hair and you could choose which. Also your animal form could be Worgen, panther man (like saberon ), bird man like the high arrakoa, bear man like the Artifact Druid Mage tower for guardians.

Now they’d have their own full on proper forest tree city with adaptations of Kaldorei rural architecture done well.

I’d also open up red eyes to blood elves along with the DK skin tones and faces so they can do darkfallen. DK eyes would be unique to DK. Void elves won’t get this.

Fir void elves I’d add a jewellery option but not as extensive as blood elves or Nightborne, they’d have several
void customisations like 3rd eyes, back tentacles. And they’d have tattoos like Alleria

Then that’s be it for elves.

I always suggest more for elves because they are the biggest block

[Tanaria]

It would be exciting I think. The number of elven groups would get closer to humans.

But being closer to the Humans is exactly what's wrong with Alliance Elves at present.

You weren't happy to see Jaina in Nazjatar, in place of Mordent or Umbric. This is a core problem with Alliance writing.

Naga and Worgen Night Elves would be Horde (Naga) and Alliance (Worgen Night Elves.) At the end of the day, Naga have had more (slightly) more positive interactions with Horde races, than they have with the Alliance. We've seen Azshara (Naga), willing to set up deals and bargains with Sylvanas and Nathanos (Forsaken.) Overall though - nobody trusts the Naga, except for those who are with the Illidari, under S'theno.

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Night elves are the original elf group that have facets in many thing. Amongst the Darnassians it’s skewed forest currently because they’ve recently come out of the Long vigil, but it should move back to centre having balance between Arcane and Nature and the priesthood being an over bridge to the balance under bridge. Then the fel part through the Illidari Nelves and their undead wing.

That's far too much for what would be a very bad story. I'd rather Blizzard focus on the key aspects of the societies, so we get the juicy lore - rather than trying to go "big" and the story being weak.

I mean, take the Blood Elves for example. We don't see anything for their Warriors, Rogues or Warlocks. Why? Because they are not a big part of current Thalassian Society in Silvermoon. Blizzard hem in on the Blood Elf Paladins, Mages and Hunters because they are 3 core and main sections of the society and the story is decently told.
Humans are the same. We get a lot of lore for Human Paladins, Human Mages and Human Rogues. We don't see much for Human Warriors, Human Warlocks or Human Hunters, because they are just not that big for the Stormwind Society.

Night Elf Death Knights and Night Elf Demon Hunters are just not that big in Alliance Night Elf society. The latter is shared with the Blood Elf Demon Hunters.

Again, what you want is all very nice and pretty - but Blizzard won't deliver on all of that, because it's not just Night Elves that they'd have cover. They'd have to go over all of the Blood Elf sections, all the Human sections, then we'd get the Void Elf fans from here, demanding Void Elf classes all get representation. It's impossible, to do.

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Void would just be a strength of the Naga elf, not their main thing. They’d naturally be great with arcane and elemental magics.

The only difference between Naga and Void Elves would be the former using elemental magic.

The only way this can truly work would be for the Naga to be on the Horde. Then Horde has got their own "Void" like elf.