Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[ravenmoon]

An orc enthusiast feverishly trying to gatekeep trying to play a High Elf page after page while proclaiming (iirc) to be apathetic towards or outright hate most elves. It's so.. strange.

Strange indeed.

I mean perspectives of others always welcome, but he has gone unusually far.

I all too well understand letting go can be tough. But sometimes you just gotta.

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But being closer to the Humans is exactly what's wrong with Alliance Elves at present.

You weren't happy to see Jaina in Nazjatar, in place of Mordent or Umbric. This is a core problem with Alliance writing.

Naga and Worgen Night Elves would be Horde (Naga) and Alliance (Worgen Night Elves.) At the end of the day, Naga have had more (slightly) more positive interactions with Horde races, than they have with the Alliance. We've seen Azshara (Naga), willing to set up deals and bargains with Sylvanas and Nathanos (Forsaken.) Overall though - nobody trusts the Naga, except for those who are with the Illidari, under S'theno.

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That's far too much for what would be a very bad story. I'd rather Blizzard focus on the key aspects of the societies, so we get the juicy lore - rather than trying to go "big" and the story being weak.

I mean, take the Blood Elves for example. We don't see anything for their Warriors, Rogues or Warlocks. Why? Because they are not a big part of current Thalassian Society in Silvermoon. Blizzard hem in on the Blood Elf Paladins, Mages and Hunters because they are 3 core and main sections of the society and the story is decently told.
Humans are the same. We get a lot of lore for Human Paladins, Human Mages and Human Rogues. We don't see much for Human Warriors, Human Warlocks or Human Hunters, because they are just not that big for the Stormwind Society.

Night Elf Death Knights and Night Elf Demon Hunters are just not that big in Alliance Night Elf society. The latter is shared with the Blood Elf Demon Hunters.

Again, what you want is all very nice and pretty - but Blizzard won't deliver on all of that, because it's not just Night Elves that they'd have cover. They'd have to go over all of the Blood Elf sections, all the Human sections, then we'd get the Void Elf fans from here, demanding Void Elf classes all get representation. It's impossible, to do.

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The only difference between Naga and Void Elves would be the former using elemental magic.

The only way this can truly work would be for the Naga to be on the Horde. Then Horde has got their own "Void" like elf.

1. It’s predictable that if they were to share future elves between the two factions, naga would go horde and Worgen alliance.

However switching them would be very interesting indeed. The emerald dream Worgen could use the resentment about being locked up in the dream to push them horde. Gives the benefit of a Druidic and elven based stronghold on the horde which is lacking for the elves.

and any naga group that fights or opposes Queen Azshara would make easy allies with the night elves. And that’s not the only route. They could find interesting avenues that lead to naga night elf alliances too

2. what do you mean far too much? The night elf story already has them as the origin elf race group and having the nature and arcane balance. It’s there in the Darnassians too. Just the arcane highborne based side hasn’t been displayed much because they’ve had no serious visual updates from classic to that side of the night elves, choosing instead to focus on a previously unexplored night elf island for Legion.

it’s already there, it’s just part of the race. Even if you don’t see it or easily perceive the night elves as a sub section, they really are more like the Zandalari in terms of lore themes. The Nightborne going horde has spread the night elf race to both factions, unlike the trolls, but whole night elven in theme I haven’t forgotten they are a sub race and not the original. Unless the Arcan’dor heals some of them.

3. That’s like saying the only difference between humans and Kul’tirans is Kul’tirans having a minor case gigantism, so they should go horde.

Naga are a night elf based race, being void enabled and having that in common to void elves is not even in the slightest a compelling reason. Humans, Draenei, Lightforged all light based. But we can’t have naga because they use void that void elves do ?

However, since Nightborne are now on the horde, the horde have a share in night elf assets and lore. So yes, the naga have reason to go horde based on being a night elf race as much as they do alliance, because the Nightborne are there.

in addition, the blood elves did work with the naga- though those blood elves became enemies which kinda negates that asset, but it’s not so simple as the Illidari can testify, and they are now friendly with the blood elves but also with the night elves.

The void mastery can be an asset to the horde. But then shadow moon Mag’har and forsaken already have elements of that, though they seem to have shifted forsaken more to death than void. It’s not like naga having void is a horde balancing effect. Also it doesn’t need to be balanced.

All in all it could go either way. I expect this scenario to have naga go horde, but strangely I’d welcome the Worgen night elves on the horde better seeing a good half of the Kaldorei already do what they bring

[Tanaria]

2. what do you mean far too much? The night elf story already has them as the origin elf race group and having the nature and arcane balance. It’s there in the Darnassians too. Just the arcane highborne based side hasn’t been displayed much because they’ve had no serious visual updates from classic to that side of the night elves, choosing instead to focus on a previously unexplored night elf island for Legion.

it’s already there, it’s just part of the race. Even if you don’t see it or easily perceive the night elves as a sub section, they really are more like the Zandalari in terms of lore themes. The Nightborne going horde has spread the night elf race to both factions, unlike the trolls, but whole night elven in theme I haven’t forgotten they are a sub race and not the original. Unless the Arcan’dor heals some of them.

Blizzard have wrote the Alliance Night Elves in a certain way. Never, have we seen Night Elf Death Knights be actively involved or play a major part in Alliance Night Elf society. In fact, we've only seen 1 Human Death Knight (Thassarian), be involved with Human lore progression, which was during Cataclysm when he commanded the Alliance effort in Andorhal.

It's all far too much to put that emphasis just on night elves. It doesn't matter if they are the "origin elf race." That's irrelevant. It's not fair to pin that much focus on that 1 set of people. I don't personally care if they are the origin elf race...hell, if we want to drill down into it, Trolls are the "origin elf race", but do we get such huge insights into every aspect (classes available to trolls), no we don't. Yes, they have access to classes such as Warlock and Death Knight - but do we get much lore about Troll Warlocks or Troll Death Knights? No. Hell, until Zandalari, the only Troll Druid we saw was that terrible meme guy from the WPL.

I'd support the idea, if 2 things happened.
1) Blizzard could tell a good story for all those aspects.
2) Blood Elves got the equal representation for all of their classes, just like nelfs. That includes the Illidari Demon Hunters (not Fel Elves or "Felblood Elves.") and Blood Elf Death Knights.

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Strange indeed.

I mean perspectives of others always welcome, but he has gone unusually far.

I all too well understand letting go can be tough. But sometimes you just gotta.

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1. It’s predictable that if they were to share future elves between the two factions, naga would go horde and Worgen alliance.

However switching them would be very interesting indeed. The emerald dream Worgen could use the resentment about being locked up in the dream to push them horde. Gives the benefit of a Druidic and elven based stronghold on the horde which is lacking for the elves.

and any naga group that fights or opposes Queen Azshara would make easy allies with the night elves. And that’s not the only route. They could find interesting avenues that lead to naga night elf alliances too

3. That’s like saying the only difference between humans and Kul’tirans is Kul’tirans having a minor case gigantism, so they should go horde.

Naga are a night elf based race, being void enabled and having that in common to void elves is not even in the slightest a compelling reason. Humans, Draenei, Lightforged all light based. But we can’t have naga because they use void that void elves do ?

However, since Nightborne are now on the horde, the horde have a share in night elf assets and lore. So yes, the naga have reason to go horde based on being a night elf race as much as they do alliance, because the Nightborne are there.

in addition, the blood elves did work with the naga- though those blood elves became enemies which kinda negates that asset, but it’s not so simple as the Illidari can testify, and they are now friendly with the blood elves but also with the night elves.

The void mastery can be an asset to the horde. But then shadow moon Mag’har and forsaken already have elements of that, though they seem to have shifted forsaken more to death than void. It’s not like naga having void is a horde balancing effect. Also it doesn’t need to be balanced.

All in all it could go either way. I expect this scenario to have naga go horde, but strangely I’d welcome the Worgen night elves on the horde better seeing a good half of the Kaldorei already do what they bring

Do we honestly think another elf race is coming? I sure as hell don't and I don't want another elf race either.
We've got all the requested now. You've got 2 elves on the Horde (RP'ing a high elf if you want to) and you've got 2 elves on the Alliance (RP'ing a high elf if you want to.)
I don't think it's a question of "should we get 2 night elf based races", it's a question of "why do we need 2 night elf based races?" Also, another question of "why can't we have a blood elf based race?"

Again, I'm not interested in them "being the origin race." Who cares? Why should that qualify for them to have 4 extra races, when -at most- they only deserve the 2 we've got.

[ravenmoon]

Blizzard have wrote the Alliance Night Elves in a certain way. Never, have we seen Night Elf Death Knights be actively involved or play a major part in Alliance Night Elf society. In fact, we've only seen 1 Human Death Knight (Thassarian), be involved with Human lore progression, which was during Cataclysm when he commanded the Alliance effort in Andorhal.

It's all far too much to put that emphasis just on night elves. It doesn't matter if they are the "origin elf race." That's irrelevant. It's not fair to pin that much focus on that 1 set of people. I don't personally care if they are the origin elf race...hell, if we want to drill down into it, Trolls are the "origin elf race", but do we get such huge insights into every aspect (classes available to trolls), no we don't. Yes, they have access to classes such as Warlock and Death Knight - but do we get much lore about Troll Warlocks or Troll Death Knights? No. Hell, until Zandalari, the only Troll Druid we saw was that terrible meme guy from the WPL.

I'd support the idea, if 2 things happened.
1) Blizzard could tell a good story for all those aspects.
2) Blood Elves got the equal representation for all of their classes, just like nelfs. That includes the Illidari Demon Hunters (not Fel Elves or "Felblood Elves.") and Blood Elf Death Knights.

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Do we honestly think another elf race is coming? I sure as hell don't and I don't want another elf race either.
We've got all the requested now. You've got 2 elves on the Horde (RP'ing a high elf if you want to) and you've got 2 elves on the Alliance (RP'ing a high elf if you want to.)
I don't think it's a question of "should we get 2 night elf based races", it's a question of "why do we need 2 night elf based races?" Also, another question of "why can't we have a blood elf based race?"

Again, I'm not interested in them "being the origin race." Who cares? Why should that qualify for them to have 4 extra races, when -at most- they only deserve the 2 we've got.

1. Yeh but undead night elves have been greatly expanded. You have the Racencrests who we help lift the deception of the Legion from and we have the dark rangers who should now be on our side or able to be now with the revelations of SL out. It’s more than most races apart from humans, Thalassians and orcs get on undeath.

2. I think Naga will be a full race with the perk of having an elf form. Meanwhile San’layn and NElf Worgen will be allied races. Why complain about NElf Worgen being another elf race when they’d equally be the Worgen allied race just with an elf based humanoid form instead of human. Very biased to be fine with it being human but problematic with it being elven.

blood elves get San’layn allied race and further customisations for darkfallen on the blood elf race.

Night elves get night elf Worgen and hopefully a better highborne customisation range.

Everu race also gets an additional allied race or at least key ones do.
Naga are a new race. Likely accessible to both factions. Unless Ethereals also come. Then one faction gets one

[Tanaria]

1. Yeh but undead night elves have been greatly expanded. You have the Racencrests who we help lift the deception of the Legion from and we have the dark rangers who should now be on our side or able to be now with the revelations of SL out. It’s more than most races apart from humans, Thalassians and orcs get on undeath.

But you also had undead quel'dorei in the Ghostlands, you had Thalassian Dark Rangers working with Sylvanas and the Forsaken, you had Lorash Sunbeam, a Blood Elf raised into undeath.
All of this to say - it didn't impact on the Horde Sin'dorei story. Neither did it truly involve the High Elves or Void Elves.

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2. I think Naga will be a full race with the perk of having an elf form. Meanwhile San’layn and NElf Worgen will be allied races. Why complain about NElf Worgen being another elf race when they’d equally be the Worgen allied race just with an elf based humanoid form instead of human. Very biased to be fine with it being human but problematic with it being elven.

blood elves get San’layn allied race and further customisations for darkfallen on the blood elf race.

Night elves get night elf Worgen and hopefully a better highborne customisation range.

Everu race also gets an additional allied race or at least key ones do.
Naga are a new race. Likely accessible to both factions. Unless Ethereals also come. Then one faction gets one

But again, are San'layn, Night Elf Worgen, Naga etc - are they truly needed. I mean, we haven't got a Forsaken-like allied race yet.
When do those poor slobs get something?

[ravenmoon]

But you also had undead quel'dorei in the Ghostlands, you had Thalassian Dark Rangers working with Sylvanas and the Forsaken, you had Lorash Sunbeam, a Blood Elf raised into undeath.
All of this to say - it didn't impact on the Horde Sin'dorei story. Neither did it truly involve the High Elves or Void Elves.

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But again, are San'layn, Night Elf Worgen, Naga etc - are they truly needed. I mean, we haven't got a Forsaken-like allied race yet.
When do those poor slobs get something?

Ofc. It’s not about whether they are needed. I mean humans or just one race is all that is needed.

The more the merrier is always the way forward. Because if you don’t care for new stuff. You are sorted with the existing ones anyway.

If you are like me, you would always love new customisations. New options. It keeps players playing. Choosing new toons, levelling again. Even new class options. Naga elves would have shaman if you are an elf player, Worgen elves would have that interesting animal features and nee versions of animal men that can be a lot of fun. San’layn bring vampires into wow. That would be very exciting to many.

Don’t let the elf haters get to you. So what if they don’t want more elf groups. Trust me if they gave 2 more allied races for every race but elves they’d still complain. Because the elf numbers problem has never been the diversity or number of options but the popularity amongst players.

they are tired of us talking about elves because we like them and complain at the elf topics which is silly. We talk about things we like. Don’t like elves, go make your own topics about what you like.

Don’t let them ever make you feel there are too many elves. For the volume of players that play elves, the amount of variation is small. Also don’t forget they count both night elven and Thalassian elves which are two different racial groups in one.

On undead elves, The majority of darkfallen are risen high elves, but they’d be associated with blood elves as high elf isn’t officially a playable race though you can roll one.

Also the San’layn and darkfallen vis Sylvanas are associated with the horde. So all those undead high elves are horde linked. As thalassians, that’s blood elf related.

Nesides if void elves have the void thing setting apart from standard Thalssians, blood elves should have the undead options. Which they already hold via Blood elf DKs. Void elf DKs don’t have the undead faces and skin tones. Only the eyes. Another reason it’s blood elves.

I also feel that with high elf options on void elves, blood elves could use proper undead options like red eyes and their DK undead faces and skin tones being unlocked for every class.

[Amaterasu65]

Watching people's attempts to undermine the Alliance HE fantasy once again because of the new customization options is oh so delicious. Keep trying, I'm chilling on my Quel'dorei Steed.

[Pheraz]

Blood Elves are not "twisted" by fel.

Anyone who thinks this needs to revise the lore of one of the best races in Azeroth. Period.

I agree but they really need to update silvermoon. THose fel crystals with demon souls are all over the place and most NPC BEs have fel eyes.
Let's be honest, the whole idea of blood elves was poorly implemented in World of Warcraft. Don't you agree? They should have been either neutral or alliance from the start and also do not corrupt playable blood elves with fel. Only the dudes who joined prince narcissismin outland

[FlubberPuddy]

Watching people's attempts to undermine the Alliance HE fantasy once again because of the new customization options is oh so delicious. Keep trying, I'm chilling on my Quel'dorei Steed.

It'll be even more great once the patch goes live and sooooo many more Alliance HE are out and about. I definitely wanna see how aggro some people get over it, it's like those "stop having fun!" memes.

[Vaedan]

It'll be even more great once the patch goes live and sooooo many more Alliance HE are out and about. I definitely wanna see how aggro some people get over it, it's like those "stop having fun!" memes.

I remember when Void elves got natural skin tones. I met a blood elf paladin /spit on me. I asked him in thalassian what's his problem, and he felt offended that I play a "blood elf" on the Alliance. I told him he is pathetic. He got triggered and attacked me. Adding insult to injury, I owned him.

So yes, I guess these new customizations might start with some agression from insecure Horde players.

[Kyriani]

Here's a few more looks using the black and white with void skin tones. I especially like the death knight! Reminds me of Lady Death!

[Vaedan]

Here's a few more looks using the black and white with void skin tones. I especially like the death knight! Reminds me of Lady Death!

I must say, I really love your transmogs! Your DK looks mesmerising. I actually consider using dark blue skin and white hair combo on my priest for ultimate dark elf fantasy. It looks really cool.

[Tanaria]

I agree but they really need to update silvermoon. THose fel crystals with demon souls are all over the place and most NPC BEs have fel eyes.
Let's be honest, the whole idea of blood elves was poorly implemented in World of Warcraft. Don't you agree? They should have been either neutral or alliance from the start and also do not corrupt playable blood elves with fel. Only the dudes who joined prince narcissismin outland

Blood Elves stopped being Alliance after the 2nd War.
It clearly states that Anasterian did not feel that the Alliance had his people's interests at heart and then we had Garithos afterwards.

The Blood Elves and Lor'themar especially, had a clear link with Sylvanas, which in turn, brought them closer to the Horde. Kael'thas was aware of this allegiance and he pushed for it through Rommath.
Lor'themar had no links to the Alliance, so joining the Horde was (and still remains) the better option.

If they were alliance, they'd be enveloped into "Human Potential" and we see how well that works for the Night Elves. It's part of the reason why I am such a Blood Elf fan - they would have 0 charm being Alliance. So bland and boring and just LOTR - I mean, if you want to play a race, that is allied to Humans and looks like Blood Elves (without the void stuff), play LOTRO.

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SNIP.

Well, it's not about letting the elf haters get to me, it's all about what's fair. I mean, elves have 4 playable races at the moment. We're not exactly bleeding for options.

And, I remember how I felt when I saw WoD for the first time:
"Great...more Orcs!"
I don't want that same feeling to happen, about Elves. Yes, Elves will take a big stage in WoW because they are a large species, but just like Orcs in 2014, you can have far too much of a good thing.

I'd love more Blood Elf options, but I'm a realist and the fact is, we aren't starved for options. We can play as 4 different elves and RP 5 different elves. Sometimes, we have to take a step back and let the other races have their time. I mean, we're all still waiting for the Draenei and Darkspear Heritage armors.

Maybe San'layn/Dark Ranger options come available in 11.0 or something? Maybe "Rommath/Magister" tattoos come then as well?

[Pheraz]

Blood Elves stopped being Alliance after the 2nd War.
It clearly states that Anasterian did not feel that the Alliance had his people's interests at heart and then we had Garithos afterwards.

The Blood Elves and Lor'themar especially, had a clear link with Sylvanas, which in turn, brought them closer to the Horde. Kael'thas was aware of this allegiance and he pushed for it through Rommath.
Lor'themar had no links to the Alliance, so joining the Horde was (and still remains) the better option.

If they were alliance, they'd be enveloped into "Human Potential" and we see how well that works for the Night Elves. It's part of the reason why I am such a Blood Elf fan - they would have 0 charm being Alliance. So bland and boring and just LOTR - I mean, if you want to play a race, that is allied to Humans and looks like Blood Elves (without the void stuff), play LOTRO.

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Well, it's not about letting the elf haters get to me, it's all about what's fair. I mean, elves have 4 playable races at the moment. We're not exactly bleeding for options.

And, I remember how I felt when I saw WoD for the first time:
"Great...more Orcs!"
I don't want that same feeling to happen, about Elves. Yes, Elves will take a big stage in WoW because they are a large species, but just like Orcs in 2014, you can have far too much of a good thing.

I'd love more Blood Elf options, but I'm a realist and the fact is, we aren't starved for options. We can play as 4 different elves and RP 5 different elves. Sometimes, we have to take a step back and let the other races have their time. I mean, we're all still waiting for the Draenei and Darkspear Heritage armors.

Maybe San'layn/Dark Ranger options come available in 11.0 or something? Maybe "Rommath/Magister" tattoos come then as well?

I am not sure how night elves are enveloped into human potential. We had at least three expansions heavily centered around night elves. So this is obv. not an argument
Apart from this, blood elves did never fit into the horde because the whole aestetics is completly different.

[Tanaria]

I am not sure how night elves are enveloped into human potential. We had at least three expansions heavily centered around night elves. So this is obv. not an argument
Apart from this, blood elves did never fit into the horde because the whole aestetics is completly different.

Well neither did Trolls, Undead, Tauren, Goblins, Pandaren, Vulpera, Nightborne as well as many others, but the Horde is not just, the Orcs.
Unfortunately, the Alliance writers haven't quite received the memo that the Alliance isn't just the Humans.

Did we forget "Human Potential: Shandris Feathermoon 2018."
Keep doing you, Shandris, darling. Your a credit to the Kaldorei.

[Eggroll]

I am not sure how night elves are enveloped into human potential. We had at least three expansions heavily centered around night elves. So this is obv. not an argument
Apart from this, blood elves did never fit into the horde because the whole aestetics is completly different.

Only in the way that the human Alliance leader got almost all of them killed by neglect. Ooopsie.

[Tanaria]

Only in the way that the human Alliance leader got almost all of them killed by neglect. Ooopsie.

I'll call Shandris and tell her about your outdated views on the Humans.

[Eggroll]

I'll call Shandris and tell her about your outdated views on the Humans.

Maybe she'll see the error of her ways now she's with Ysera at the Heart of the Forest, far away from any "human potential", so she can detox and clear her mind

[Pheraz]

Well neither did Trolls, Undead, Tauren, Goblins, Pandaren, Vulpera, Nightborne as well as many others, but the Horde is not just, the Orcs.
Unfortunately, the Alliance writers haven't quite received the memo that the Alliance isn't just the Humans.

Did we forget "Human Potential: Shandris Feathermoon 2018."
Keep doing you, Shandris, darling. Your a credit to the Kaldorei.

If you feel personally comfortable inside stinky tends in oggrimar as a blood elf, fine. But objectively it makes zero sense from either perspective

[Tanaria]

If you feel personally comfortable inside stinky tends in oggrimar as a blood elf, fine. But objectively it makes zero sense from either perspective

Well no, considering the Blood Elf homeland is Quel'Thalas. Quel'Thalas is Horde land.

I mean, for those Blood Elves who do spend time in Orgrimmar, at least they still get screen time.

I mean, you could literally delete every Alliance race and just have the faction as "Humans" and the story would hardly be affected.

[Pheraz]

Well no, considering the Blood Elf homeland is Quel'Thalas. Quel'Thalas is Horde land.

I mean, for those Blood Elves who do spend time in Orgrimmar, at least they still get screen time.

I mean, you could literally delete every Alliance race and just have the faction as "Humans" and the story would hardly be affected.

The only reason blooed elves are in the horde is because chinese female players wanted a pretty race.
Same as Teldrassil only burned because they needed a plot device for their weird SL story. Some pills are bitter, I know.