Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

Those new sets seem to be made for the alliance races.

I haven't seen one that really jumps out of at me, where I can say "Oh that will look good on Blood Elves."
Maybe the Warlock one...but that's just a dark red version of the original ToS normal set.

On the other hand, we got sweet Nightborne weapons from TW rewards, that's really exciting for Nightborne, coupled with their new customizations. I actually consider tu dust of my Nightborne Magistrix

it is permanent? no, they revert back, and i literally said to you both options, if they are or not and explained the scenarios, but yeah, expected.from someone like you to ignore

Both DHs and some void elves have permanent changes to their appearance and skill sets:

Void elves:
- Pigmentation (hair color, hair skin)
- Tentacles
- ability to open void rifts

DHs:
- Horns
- Skin colors
- Fel scars (Fel is literaly coursing through their body)
- Wings
- Ability to see magic and magical beings

Both of them have also temporary transformation

Void elves:
- Temporary being engulfed with the Void, not changing their appearance radicaly, just putting them into darkened state
- This is occuring randomly, they can't control it
DHs:
- Complete metamorphosis of their physical status, transforming from elf to demon
- Their transformation occurs at will and is fully controlled, plus is briefly triggered by using some of their abilities.

Now, do you realize that your argument is pretty weak? In fact, DHs and Void elves are extremely similar cases and you can see that DHs show way more signs of corruption/mutation than void elves ever did.
- Ability to see magic

[Syegfryed]

Now, do you realize that your argument is pretty weak?

No isn't, i already covered that in other posts, DH are tied to a class, void elves aren't, tis totally a different that was already talk about if they were or not different races.

[elbleuet]

On the other hand, we got sweet Nightborne weapons from TW rewards, that's really exciting for Nightborne, coupled with their new customizations. I actually consider tu dust of my Nightborne Magistrix



Both DHs and some void elves have permanent changes to their appearance and skill sets:

Void elves:
- Pigmentation (hair color, hair skin)
- Tentacles
- ability to open void rifts

DHs:
- Horns
- Skin colors
- Fel scars (Fel is literaly coursing through their body)
- Wings
- Ability to see magic and magical beings

Both of them have also temporary transformation

Void elves:
- Temporary being engulfed with the Void, not changing their appearance radicaly, just putting them into darkened state
- This is occuring randomly, they can't control it
DHs:
- Complete metamorphosis of their physical status, transforming from elf to demon
- Their transformation occurs at will and is fully controlled, plus is briefly triggered by using some of their abilities.

Now, do you realize that your argument is pretty weak? In fact, DHs and Void elves are extremely similar cases and you can see that DHs show way more signs of corruption/mutation than void elves ever did.
- Ability to see magic

This. Ofc a blood elf demon hunter is 100 times more mutated than a void elf can be. But he refuses to face the truth for some reasons.

By going through his logic, we're playing a Bronzebeard shaman since Wildhammer dwarves do not have proper racials. Nonsense.

[Syegfryed]

This. Ofc a blood elf demon hunter is 100 times more mutated than a void elf can be.

yes, because you want that.

But he refuses to face the truth for some reasons.

i literally walked with you trough the whole process of the DH if they are or not a different race, yet you are still ignoring and using from false equivalence because goes against your pure elf idea.

By going through his logic, we're playing a Bronzebeard shaman since Wildhammer dwarves do not have proper racials. Nonsense.

nonsense is you thinking they are difference races of dwarves, despite the game lore never stating that, and trying to say is the same thing as void elves, Wildhammer do not need other racials because they are the same race of dwarf, unlike void elves, who are a different race of elves. Read: they always said void elves are a different race of elves, they never said those clans are different races, just like stormind or dalaran humans are not different rces.

In short, you keep using of false equivalences, like using the bronzebeard and wildhammer clan thing, to compare with high/blood elf and void elf, when they are equivalent of nightborne and night elf, not dwarves.

[Yarathir]

I really hope they also introduce the Void Elf and Dark Iron weapons.

[TidalConflux]

I think the argument of "Void elves do not have to be mutated" is kind of pointless when the unlock questline 'Telogrus Rift' has the main point being Durzaan transforming Umbric and his followers to become servants of the void -- making them pseudo-void beings. That is the catalyst which makes Umbric ask Alleria to teach them to harness to better control the void to overcome the whispers. The idea presented is that Alleria's tutoring only comes as a result from the transformation.

The issue is that there isnt any presentation shown that you can be a ren'dorei without being transformed by the void and the quests for unlocking them show that the transformation is a major catalyst for them following Alleria.

You would need something to show that ren'dorei can be ren'dorei without that transformation for that argument to happen. From the gameplay perspective (not the RPer one), the customization doesnt make any sense because there isnt that show and tell. It comes off just as the weak way to give "high elves" without giving "high elves". Its the confrontation of two identities that dont really mesh from the baseline perspective and gives off this narrative of Void elves are just a vessel to give people "high elves" while sacrificing anything unique about void elves they could draw upon.

Its great that high elves have gotten neat things -- but from the perspective of void elves, they've literally have gotten no customization which broadens their own theme and identity.

[Syegfryed]

I think you are cherrypicking/misinterpreting what I said, selectively avoiding the things that poke holes in your argument.

Im rly note, and my "argument" cannot have any holes, because is the canon lore, youc an't poke role witht hat with headcanon.

There is nothing physiologically different between a void elf whos customization has no mutations, and a blood/high elf.

Again, this is a point based on a false premise, there is things phisiolocal different, their racials are that, they are not just casting magic, as all other elves, and even all other races could do that.

Nightborne on the other hand are a different ethnicity of elf, as they have evolved to be physiologically different.

Nightborne mutated from night elves from the nightwhell, the same way void elves mtuated from high elves with void energy.

Void Elf means I follow the teachings/political leanings of Alleria. It does not imply mutation from the events in Telogrus Rift, as we learned from the other Thalassian Wayfarers who have not mutated, or the countless shadow priests who have not mutated.

countless of shadow priests cannot do that void elves do, the people studying magic are not void elves yet, as they do not mutated.

You seem stuck on gameplay, rather than lore here.

This has to be a joke.

Yes, canonically anyone who can learn void magic could use any of the void elf racials, gameplay=/=lore, as blizzard has said a thousand times before.

prove to me that anyone can do their racials like they do.

"creating a void portal" isn't strict a racial unelss you can do inante like void elves do.

But some of them aren't mutated by the void,

They are, they just don't show, like Alleria, tis the whole point of the race

It is a state of spirit and political stance.

It is not, it literally goes against the canon from the lore and even the recent chronicles.

Stop dumbing down something that is actually kind of unique and interesting.

Again, you think its me, when its the lore of warcraft, through the years, even in the recent chronicles, You think this headcanon is "unique and interesting" thats good for you, but again, is not the truth.

I will say it again, I will say there is a physiological difference between a mutated void elf and an unmutated one,

unless the lore and the devs say that, is simple a headcanon, the lore of warcraft is that all void elves are mutated, even the ones that look like high elves.

Hell that is the whole point of the customization, give void elf high elf customizations, they never said they will introduce the high elf race to be playable under the void elf alas, they never said no you play a high elf that just use the void, they never said you are a "not mutated high elf" that decided to inedtify yourself as void elf.

When they say that, whent hey change current lore, ii agree with you.

[Syegfryed]

You are cherrypicking, because you're disregarding Danuser's tweet.

His tweet does not proof your point neither refute mine, is not even related to the race discussion we are having here

Nightborne have evolved to be different, yes. They also have a very distinct culture. A nightborne is a different ethnicity of elf. They have a whole history behind making them a race. They look different, have a different set of beliefs, and a different outlook on the world, and you would have trouble mistaking a Nightborne for a Night Elf, or a Blood Elf.

Again, their culture is not the point here, but their race/specie, they evolved and mutated, period. you can still be a different race by looking the same, species of birds are example of that.

Damn, I guess no one else can do a haymaker like a Kul Tiran,

No one can yes, it is something only kul'tiran giant constitution can do.

a regular orc cant call to his ancestors like a mag'har,

He can't, the regular orc have the blood fury buffed from manoroth blood.

or a regular tauren couldn't do a bull rush like a high mountain tauren

yep, they can't, as their horns are different. funny thing is tauren horns break and don't grow back, highmoutnian don't ahve that problem.

They aren't, because there are people learning from Alleria in Telogrus Rift. Everyone present for the mutation changed to be blue or purple, there were zero exceptions to that rule ingame.

Again, your part from the false premise that "the void elves with white skin and blonde hair are just the elves in telogrus rift that did not had mutation" yet, nothing proves that point, in fact, it goes against it, with the lore saying they are mutated, and the devs saying they just give the customization, not the race. You are making up a headcanon explanation for the customziations

I must have missed that, can you find me the chronicle passage that discusses this?

That i can't do because im not with the pdf where im staying, but its when they talk about the blood elves, the wiki does have and also other sources like warcraft manual.

Im prob going to stop here, because at this point is a circular argument, and pointless hammer down the same thing forever, but like i said, the lore is that, until they change that im goign to stick with the canon.

They sure can change the lore about then, in the future

[Syegfryed]

It does, because it states that identity is viewed differently than it is on earth, which refutes that everyone who is mechanically a void elf is a void elf,

no it don'tt.

I'm sure an orc could punch like a Kul Tiran, or a draenei, or a tauren.

But they can't, maybe an ogre, but that isn't showed.

Yet we have examples of green orcs doing just that, invoking their ancestors on more than one occasion.

As shamans, not any class, not he same way, just like not any elf can do what a void elf do.

plus, you accuse me of cherypicking while you are just doing that with their racials, stating only one, and not the rest, by example, you completely ignored the orc have the bloodfury that is bumped by demon blood, something maghar don't have it, you completely ignored how maghar orcs have savage blood, aka pure blood that was not corrupted by demons, completely ignored how kul'tiran have resistance to cold damage and more versatility and can hold their breath longer than normal humans, etc.

Headcanon and implication are necessary when answers aren't given

Headcanon still is a headcanon and not a truth. that is my point, people can roleplay, pretend and invent the lore they want, but the canon is that all void elves, regardless of how they look, are elves mutated by void energies, as is the lore and concept of the race, until they change, and they can change sure, that its how things are

You'll have to be more specific, what does it say? You can paraphrase.

That high elf is a race of elves and not a state of spirit? that is all over the lore.

[Beloren]

Again with false equivalence? that was already talked about.


What is the proof that wildhammer dwarf is a different race of dwarf? they never said anything about that, they are different clans, same race of dwarves.

The dwarves that are a different race of dwarf are the dark iron and the frostborn


OR, because you know very well, they are a different race, like the lore says.


why they would create new ones if you were asking fro high elf colors? thats what they did, they took from the existing high elves.



that literally says there is 4 races of elves that you can play



they are not the same race yes.

because you can join a group, you can't revert your race back.



Sure, but a high elf mutated by the void, the ones you play, are not. that was the point of showing blood and high elves in there, that they mutated to be void elves too


That is another false equivalence, i said the energy would overcome the eye color.

Liadrin overcome the green eyes with light energy.

A race of elves mutated by the light is strangely an possibility, but Liadrin isn't that far yet, like the lighforged draenei are

Race means several things.

The same word is used often for factions as well as for someone who is of the same race.

It can be more confusing to with sub races who often just minor variants or just factions and they are classed as “race” for gameplay character creation but they aren’t quite a totally distinctive entity as the official dictionary definition implies.

People and culture take poetic licence with many words. You have to understand the country or organisation’ sway of sayi BG things and understand the context well to fully grasp what is meant when the term is used in various situations

These are all evidences of how languages evolve and how even within sun communities words can take on distinct nuances and even meanings.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

you mean the right ones that you refuse to accept? i guess.

Oh Siggy.

there is no race that is based around "sociocultural identity", that is just absurd, all races are either based on biological difference, from a human to a dwarf, a blood elf to a night elf, straight up a biological distinction, or a big magical that still change their beings like one way or another like a undead or worgen curse..

Man, race doesn't even exist in real life and you are trying to use it as a concept in WoW, where it makes less sense even since it's literally mutable. YOU CAN CHANGE RACES IN WOW. Rachel Dolezal could never.

You can't just grab a disparate handful of different afflictions with different origins and call them "race" in any meaningful way.

I see that you are trying to validate something with "void elf is just like mechagnomes bro, any elf can use the void like a amge and identify as void elf", but thats straight up going against the canon and logic of how void elves are only void elves after being changed/mutated by the void.

No, my point is that the concept of "race" in WoW is pointless beyond a gameplay conceit, because there's no consistent definition of what gets called a "race", RL terms don't work because VE and LFD are literally BE and Draenei that "change races." THAT concept it's absurd.

And again, to claim that mechagnomes are a new race but Demon Hunters aren't by your own definition, is just as absurd. In case it's not clear, To try to define Race in WoW in Universe consistently between lore and gameplay conceits, it's dumb as hell, because it simply does not make sense by any meaningful definition of the term race.

And if you keep saying that being infused by cosmic energy or having prosthetics are both as valid litmus tests of what being a new race is, I WILL keep laughing at you.

No isn't, i already covered that in other posts, DH are tied to a class, void elves aren't, tis totally a different that was already talk about if they were or not different races.

Wuau, it's almost like "race" is more of a gameplay conceit rather than an in universe differentiation.

Cause again, by your logic, Mechagnomes? Totes new race. Illidari? Just Blood Elves!!

You're hysterical.

Im rly note, and my "argument" cannot have any holes, because is the canon lore, youc an't poke role witht hat with headcanon.

*Instert Jonah J. Jameson Laughing Gif*

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Still hope they add some sensible lore "closure" to the High Elf problem, a few lines of dialogue at least, doesn't even have to be voiced. It feels like you're emulating a High Elf with the new customization options, but the game hardly provided actual information as to the status of the High Elves of the Alliance. At best we are doing some guesses based on the presence of unnamed high elf npcs in the Rift.

Blizzard writers could have easily solved this.
"Alleria returns and the Alliance High Elves join her, she teaches them the ways of the dark side." Done.
But the lore doesn't tell that, by all accounts the High Elves of the Alliance remain there as a small unplayable sub faction. The fact that the writers haven't solved the lore one way or another doesn't mean they are stupid, but that they don't want to close the High Elf page for whatever reasons. Maybe they want to use them in future, maybe just keep some tabs open. Either way it's Blizzard that should provide the lore, not us coming up with convoluted fan fiction.

In my head canon my Void Elf is a High Elf who never left the Alliance and who joined Alleria when she came back, she offered to teach him and others who are interested void stuff and he got some voidy radiation in the rift.

Basically. I mean, I have always said that the most natural way to get Void Elves on the first place would have been simply to have High Elves already in the alliance join her, instead of whatever Umbric's group was.

So that path can still be followed. Perhaps not all High Elves vecome Void Elves, but a large number of them do; perhaps they rejoin as a society, but only the ones that use Void are technically playable, not unlike how Worgen and Gilnean are the same people, but we only can play as Worgen.

I would like that second option, with all the Thalassian Exiles coming together under the Windrunners as one people sociopolitically, even if just a fraction delves in the mysteries of the Void. It's really no different than Blood Elves having Demon Hunters as part of their people, or Kul Tirans having both humans and kul tirans as part of theirs.

[Syegfryed]

Oh Siggy.

man, you started, i just continued..

Man, race doesn't even exist in real life and you are trying to use it as a concept in WoW, where it makes less sense even since it's literally mutable. YOU CAN CHANGE RACES IN WOW. Rachel Dolezal could never.

Again, its not me, Blizzard and the lore use that, you want to dismiss to fit your point, sure, but still is their nomenclature and how they do things, until they decide to change

No, my point is that the concept of "race" in WoW is pointless beyond a gameplay conceit, because there's no consistent definition of what gets called a "race", RL terms don't work because VE and LFD are literally BE and Draenei that "change races." THAT concept it's absurd.

Why is pointless and why is absurd? because it goes against your narrative? cause this is pretty much it, "i don't like, i say is pointless" but until blizzard says is pointless, still counts .

And again, to claim that mechagnomes are a new race but Demon Hunters aren't by your own definition, is just as absurd

Another one cherypicking what i said to fit the narrative with false equivalence, but not realizing i already walk trough that and, they being different cases of race and a playable class. And newsflash, it is blizzard that said mechagnomes are a new race, not me.

In case it's not clear, To try to define Race in WoW in Universe consistently between lore and gameplay conceits, it's dumb as hell, because it simply does not make sense by any meaningful definition of the term race.

It is pretty easy to define, consistently what a race is, is either another specie of being, like a draenei and a dwarf, an night elf and a blood elf, a blood elf and a void elf, or, a race that is completely changed by something. That is no longer the old one. Like humans and forsaken or humans and worgens.

And if you keep saying that being infused by cosmic energy or having prosthetics are both as valid litmus tests of what being a new race is, I WILL keep laughing at you.

And i will be laughing at you, for ignoring the game canon to fit your narrative, because unless blizzard themselves say those things are not vallid terms, they are, its not for you to decide.

Plus, mechagnomes are not just "having prosthetics limbs"

Wuau, it's almost like "race" is more of a gameplay conceit rather than an in universe differentiation.

Well you invented that yourself, but blizzard disagree.

*Instert Jonah J. Jameson Laughing Gif*

yes, coming from the guy that said to be an elf is a self identity bs because it can't play an "tainted elf"

- - - Updated - - -

With proper training, any of them can invoke their ancestors. I don't think a baby Mag'har comes out of the womb and can invoke his ancestors, its not in his blood. It's a cultural practice that many orcs still retain today, so long as they learn the rites. It's not biological.

who is to say anyone can do that? what are the other examples of not just shamans doing that?

Yup, Mag'har can't invoke the blood rage because they are do not have the blood of Mannoroth. I didn't say all racials weren't biological/ingrown, I said many of them aren't, that was my point. Some racial abilities, not all, are biological,

and all races have a biological part too. You can argue that the "rift" is a "mere ability that anyone can learn", but they still have things like child of the night, ethereal connection and entropic embrace that are straight up "biological" racials.

Headcanon is needed until blizzard, if ever, sorts things out. So much is left to implication, which is necessary to roleplay. The RP community can enjoy their high elves, and not be told they are not high elves. There are plenty of High Elves in the Alliance to the point where there can be unnamed High Elf NPCs. You are 100% correct when you say you cannot mechanically make a High Elf on the character creation screen, but canonically a person who uses a Void Elf who looks visually identical to a High Elf is in their right to say 'my character is a high elf' without breaking the lore.

if you are using headcanon that goes against the established lore, you are literally breaking the lore, there is not much to discuss here, you can say your character is a High elf all you want, but your pc is a void elf, period. Until they change that. You can say without break the lore, that your void elf were a high elf from the silver covenant just fine.

I have never read that and I've read all of the chronicle books.

like i said its right in the first post of the wiki:

The high elves, or quel'dorei ("children of noble birth" in Darnassian and Thalassian[4]), are a race descended from the night elf Highborne who left Kalimdor and settled in the Eastern Kingdoms, founding Quel'Thalas.

in chronicles 2 they also talk about that in the creation of blood elves.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

SNIP

I mean it's the lack of any critical study of the canon for me, it's the lack of consistent logic in your argument. "Because Blizzard says so" just doesn't work when it isn't consistent.

Another one cherypicking what i said to fit the narrative with false equivalence, but not realizing i already walk trough that and, they being different cases of race and a playable class. And newsflash, it is blizzard that said mechagnomes are a new race, not me.

Cause "it's a class" argument doesn't make sense, and you fall back on the "Blizzard said so." And if you can't be critical of Blizzard and the consistency of its lore, this is not the conversation for you.

yes, coming from the guy that said to be a elf is a self identity bs because it can't play an "tainted elf"

Lmao, this is the part where you show your ass. I don't "need" to make an argument because I can't play a High Elf. None of my High Elves dabble in void really, what model I use to represent them has always been separate of their lore, because I can separate gameplay from my own immersion.

That has nothing to do with me thinking the concept of race in WoW is badly developed and inconsistent, because I will never take seriously that Mechagnomes are a different race than Gnomes, but Illidari Elves aren't from Blood Elves.

The whole "what is a Void Elf" thing is only relevant to me to explain that new void elves can be made different ways, that you don't have to be blue to be one. That has zero to do with my High Elves being so while still using the VE model.

That's the HUGE issue of arguing with you, you think everyone else has an agenda they push and bend the lore against, and if you keep ascribing motivation to other people you are basically arguing against a strawman. I don't care why you believe what you believe, I just think your argument(s) is bad, and it baffles me that someone that claims to care about the lore has no critical exploration of it whatsoever.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup, Mag'har can't invoke the blood rage because they are do not have the blood of Mannoroth. I didn't say all racials weren't biological/ingrown, I said many of them aren't, that was my point. Some racial abilities, not all, are biological,

You are trying to have an argument with someone that is saying that race in WoW is merely a genetic/biological difference, instead of also compounded to a sociocultural aspect.

"Race" in WoW is, at best, the interaction of these aspects, and cannot be defined by the existence, or absence, of one of them.

[Syegfryed]

I mean it's the lack of any critical study of the canon for me, it's the lack of consistent logic in your argument. "Because Blizzard says so" just doesn't work when it isn't consistent.

Dude, you were literaly stating that "i can identify myself as any elf" and saying ''race is invalid and pointless" and you are saying i have "lack of any critical study of the canon" that is just pure gold

Cause "it's a class" argument doesn't make sense, and you fall back on the "Blizzard said so." And if you can't be critical of Blizzard and the consistency of its lore, this is not the conversation for you.

why it does not? because again, not fit your argument? its a whole different thing, but you want to put them the same to fuel your point, is not how things works.

"be critical of blizzard and their consistency" is basically you sayign you are against current canon and what they say. You can condem and point when they do shit in their lore, but when its done its done, we can't cherrypick what is vallid for us and what is not,

Grant it, you can be agaisnt what blizzard do, and i encourage everyone to do so, but we can't make up things to invalidate the canon to fit our narrative, i despise the "horde council" but im not here saying "the horde council is invalid, we still have a warchief that is thrall" is simple not truth.

Lmao, this is the part where you show your ass. I don't "need" to make an argument because I can't play a High Elf. None of my High Elves dabble in void really, what model I use to represent them has always been separate of their lore, because I can separate gameplay from my own immersion.

You can also separete lore from your immersion as it seems, because this literally goes against the lore, as you do not play a high elf, but a void elf with the appearence of a high elf, this si the lore, and this is what i pointed out.

Again, no problem in RP that and create that backstory, the problem is when you think that is the reality and start creating nonsense arguments like "a race is another race by mere identifying themselves as it"

I don't care why you believe what you believe, I just think your argument(s) is bad, and it baffles me that someone that claims to care about the lore has no critical exploration of it whatsoever.

What you think or not does not matter, we are not discussing if blizzard way of design things is bad or not, if the race cocnept is good or bad, we are talking what is canon and what is not, I do have critical sense and i can talk bout blizzard bs in the lore for a whole night, but that is not the point being discussed, but what is canon is canon, regardless if its bad or that you like or not

You are trying to have an argument with someone that is saying that race in WoW is merely a genetic/biological difference, instead of also compounded to a sociocultural aspect.

there is me saying race in wow is a conjunct of genetic, biology and other factors and you saying is mere a self identifying or cultural thing

The whole problem is you using absolutes, or thinking it can be one of those separated when its both. A race cannot be a new race without the biological factor too, or a vast and drastic change that make then different. All the races are either a different species/different biology or a gigantic change that does not make them what they were, like the case with humans and undeads or gnomes and mechagnomes.

[Jokubas]

I initially tried basing a design off of the artwork I've done for this thread, but after realizing I didn't have anywhere near enough armor options to get creative (years of only playing one character severely limits my transmog options for other armor types) I compromised with something aiming for a similar Warcraft II feel and I think it turned out pretty well (the Death's Advance Ardenweald top matches the circlet better, but I'm not exactly in a hurry to grind reps right now). I'm pretty happy with it and it's surreal seeing it so close to our concepts, including the mount.

[ravenmoon]

Well if you want to RP a true "Highborne Arcanist", if you've got a female night elf mage, then I wouldn't say "no" to that new ToS Tempest set from Legion Timewalking.

I am quite jealous of those who've got Night Elf, Draenei, Nightborne and Void Elf casters, because these new sets do look really cool and would look cool on them. Especially, the new Mage set.

It must bet he option to have purple shades of skin. It's why I really like void elves in addition to night elves and nightborne.. in fact, the new customisations have me shifting around a number of my toons.

For example all my blood elves are now going darker, ruddier skin tones, browns, dark reds, black even for hair. The exception is my BElf paladin, she's got bright golden hair. Now I will make some high elves , and they'd all be characterised by very pale skin, and pale shades of hair colours..

Some night elves are going nightborne, especially male - now the nightborne male can look really decent, and carries the elegant caster much better than the night elf male in some cases

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Dude, you were literaly stating that "i can identify myself as any elf" and saying ''race is invalid and pointless" and you are saying i have "lack of any critical study of the canon" that is just pure gold

But that's not what I am saying. You sure do love decontextualization.

I am saying that at best, there's largely a self identification element related to sociocultural context besides the biological aspect, but biology alone does not a new race make -see, mechagnomes-

there is me saying race in wow is a conjunct of genetic, biology and other factors and you saying is mere a self identifying or cultural thing

But I am not saying that, my point is whether to CALL oneself a void elf is self denominational, because Alleria and Umbric both call themselves that, despite arriving to it in different manners, contrasted to Blood Elven Illidari, who still see themselves as such despite being more biologically distinct to other blood elves than mechagnomes are to gnomes.

Race in WoW only works if it's understood as the interactions between biology, culture, identity and society of a group, because the absence of one of them by themselves does not preclude a race from being a "race". You can't reduce it to biology when we literally see the absence of that variable on mechagnomes, and yet we see it on Illidari DH

You spend so much time nitpicking through quotes that you always miss the actual points being made.

You can also separete lore from your immersion as it seems, because this literally goes against the lore, as you do not play a high elf, but a void elf with the appearence of a high elf, this si the lore, and this is what i pointed out.

It must make you SEETHE that I play my Maghar as an Outland one, or my DK Draenei as a Soulbinder lmao. Your limitations are not my problem dude.

[Syegfryed]

But that's not what I am saying. You sure do love decontextualization.

I am saying that at best, there's largely a self identification element related to sociocultural context besides the biological aspect, but biology alone does not a new race make -see, mechagnomes-

alone not, i also said that many times, so this is new here, but completely ignoring how the biological aspec is a big part, - an essencial part- is just bananas.

and again with mechagnomes when void elves are more close to the example of night elves and nightborne.

But I am not saying that, my point is whether to CALL oneself a void elf is self denominational, because Alleria and Umbric both call themselves that, despite arriving to it in different manners

arriving in different manners but arriving in a way nevertheless that mutated both of then, that is the point, you can't call yourself a "void elf" by mere being an elf who use void magic. "Just using void magic" is straight up, not enough to be a void elf as athe mutation is necessary.

Race in WoW only works if it's understood as the interactions between biology, culture, identity and society of a group, because the absence of one of them by themselves does not preclude a race from being a "race". You can't reduce it to biology when we literally see the absence of that variable on mechagnomes, and yet we see it on Illidari DH

im not reducing to biology, im saying it is a fundamental point that should not be striped/ignored, because dont fit the narrative, a race cannot be a race with just "culture and identity" period. a High/blood elf, can't be a void elf by just "identifying themselves as such", they have to undergo a mutation and become a void elf in the flesh, just like a normal gnome cannot identify himself as a mechagnome, even if he cut his arm off and put a prosthetic limb a mechagnome - as the lore says - experimented with ancient technology to reverse the Curse of Flesh and become living machines, this what make then a different race of gnomes, not just regular gnomes.

It must make you SEETHE that I play my Maghar as an Outland one, or my DK Draenei as a Soulbinder lmao. Your limitations are not my problem dude.

No dude, i also play my maghar as an outland one, the point is, i know the truth and in the lore that orc is not from outland, sadly is how the cannon goes.

Im not saying i agree, or that is good or bad, but it is the canon, like i said, they can change in the future, but until there we stay with what we have.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

arriving in different manners but arriving in a way nevertheless that mutated both of then, that is the point, you can't call yourself a "void elf" by mere being an elf who use void magic. "Just using void magic" is straight up, not enough to be a void elf as athe mutation is necessary.

Be my guest in trying to define a litmus test for "mutated enough to be a Void Elf"

im not reducing to biology, im saying it is a fundamental point that should not be striped/ignored, because dont fit the narrative, a race cannot be a race with just "culture and identity" period. a High/blood elf, can't be a void elf by just "identifying themselves as such", they have to undergo a mutation and become a void elf in the flesh, just like a normal gnome cannot identify himself as a mechagnome, even if he cut his arm off and put a prosthetic limb a mechagnome - as the lore says - experimented with ancient technology to reverse the Curse of Flesh and become living machines, this what make then a different race of gnomes, not just regular gnomes.

*endless groan* you are literally mixing up the Mechagon Mechagnomes with the WOTLK Mechagnomes FFS. Mechagon MG's are literally just gnomes that indeed want to get rid of the curse of flesh, but have replaced their limbs my lord and only NOW King Mechagon has created a device that attempts to undo the curse of flesh instead of mechanical replacement.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/comic/mechagon

AND AGAIN, you can't keep dismissing the evident biological differences in Illidari elves from their counterparts, so biology alone does not a race make.

No dude, i also play my maghar as an outland one, the point is, i know the truth and in the lore that orc is not from outland, sadly is how the cannon goes.

Im not saying i agree, or that is good or bad, but it is the canon, like i said, they can change in the future, but until there we stay with what we have.

Great, so we agree that the canon origin of the playable races is irrelevant to personal immersion.

[Yarathir]

Great, so we agree that the canon origin of the playable races is irrelevant to personal immersion.

Nice job unveiling the logical conclusion using a person's own posts.