Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

Aww... Bad bad humans.

That's why the Blood Elves returned to Dalaran twice I suppose... Because humans are really bad and racist.


Anyways... Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon are part of Alliance Lore more than ever now. So no I don't get over it.

Also your comment about how the Alliance is all about humans and its history so bad is really funny considering what the blood elves have become in the Horde since Wotlk... Humans with long ears having faith in the light.

You have to get over it. Draenei Isles is Alliance content.
Sin'dorei content is Horde content.

You've just got to look forward to a new Night Elf home and an updated Draenei isles. That will be Alliance content, whilst the Horde will see Forsaken returning to Lordaeron and an updated Quel'Thalas.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Want to know what makes me believe that draenei were originally supposed to be horde and blood elves alliance? It's the fact that the Exodar has an easily accessible back entrance right to the racial leader, while silvermoon doesn't lol!

All of these are without considering flying in mind cause there wasn't any flying in vanilla zones until cata:

Orgrimmar - side entrance to thrall
Undercity - tunnel to sylvanas
Thunderbluff - a road behind most of the structures, away from the npc's leading right to cairne/baine

vs.

Stormwind - have to go through the front gate, several choke points, and lots of npcs (prior to the docks exposing the other side but even then it's probably a longer road to Varian/Anduin).
Teldrassil - have to go through auberdine, to get to boat, to get to base of teldrassil, to use teleporter up to main city, then ride through all the npcs.
Ironforge - have to go through the front gate, ride through several choke points and npcs, before you get to the target.

It's probably just my own personal conspiracy theory but damn if it doesn't just make sense to me.

Mind. Blown.

[Amaterasu65]

And stereotyping the Horde is what makes me not like the Alliance fanbase. I don't know what it is with people like you who thinks they can dictate what each faction should be, but the Alliance is allowed to be a bit darker, but the Horde...NO! Must be only ORCS AND MONSTERS!!!!! RAWWWRR!

If you want the Horde to be "Sauron: LOTR Army" sort of thing, just play LOTRO. Azeroth is NOT Middle Earth. Sorry, but it's just fact.

I'm sorry that the alliance has crap writing with everything being about Humans. That's not the Horde fanbase's problem.

You're funny saying Alliance has bad writing and it's only about humans, when your faction butchered all of its leaders back to back. Thrall? Yeeted after Cata with no powers. Vol'jin? Becomes WC and dies. Garrosh? No comment. Baine? Alliance enthusiast. Sylvanas? Doesn't give a f about Horde except for her human boyfriend. Lor'themar? Irrelevant since the start until Azshara patch, then back to being irrelevant.

Btw we always had HE, we had their mount, their tabards and faction. We had zones with them being friendly only to the Alliance. And we had them in our cities since 2004, while your Horde leader Sylvanas still used the NE model. So don't be salty the Alliance got what was rightfully theirs. And this is the beginning. More customizations will come. Put it in your pipe and smoke it. Lemme go off on my Quel'dorei Steed while you run away on your hen (which VE also have the best version of).

xxx

[Ardenaso]

Jaina's High Elves in the Kalimdor Expedition had no problem working with the Horde in Warcraft 3, why shouldn't Quel'thalas proper? surely there would also be some Theramore High Elves who would reconnect with their Blood Elven kin and reaffirm to them that the Horde is good now since Archimonde's defeat

[elbleuet]

You have to get over it. Draenei Isles is Alliance content.
Sin'dorei content is Horde content.

You've just got to look forward to a new Night Elf home and an updated Draenei isles. That will be Alliance content, whilst the Horde will see Forsaken returning to Lordaeron and an updated Quel'Thalas.

Tanaria, Blizzard's principal narrative designer.

Thanks Tanaria, but this is about High elves we're talking here, not about your wishes and headcanons.

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Jaina's High Elves in the Kalimdor Expedition had no problem working with the Horde in Warcraft 3, why shouldn't Quel'thalas proper? surely there would also be some Theramore High Elves who would reconnect with their Blood Elven kin and reaffirm to them that the Horde is good now since Archimonde's defeat

There's a difference between working and being part of. 😙

Vereesa and Alleria all worked with the Horde at some point...

[confety]

You're funny saying Alliance has bad writing and it's only about humans, when your faction butchered all of its leaders back to back. Thrall? Yeeted after Cata with no powers. Vol'jin? Becomes WC and dies. Garrosh? No comment. Baine? Alliance enthusiast. Sylvanas? Doesn't give a f about Horde except for her human boyfriend. Lor'themar? Irrelevant since the start until Azshara patch, then back to being irrelevant.

Btw we always had HE, we had their mount, their tabards and faction. We had zones with them being friendly only to the Alliance. And we had them in our cities since 2004, while your Horde leader Sylvanas still used the NE model. So don't be salty the Alliance got what was rightfully theirs. And this is the beginning. More customizations will come. Put it in your pipe and smoke it. Lemme go off on my Quel'dorei Steed while you run away on your hen (which VE also have the best version of).

xxx

The high elves were part of the alliance of lordaeron for like ONE year, which do not exist anymore, also as long as i know, blood elves are literally high elves, as there is not a difference between them, and void elves are tainted by the void.

Yeah, true high elves are in the horde, as they are the ones that can be truly made without any "infusion" or corruption, aka purified blue eyed belfs with no light eyes

[Varodoc]

Thanks! I didn't base the warlock design on a paladin. I just really like the voidheart warlock set, but wanted to envision it without the robe. I wish we could get a "skirt toggle" for robes in the transmog UI so I could have non-robed versions of robe sets. I also prefer seeing my character's face and hair so I went with that crown instead of the set hood.

I see, I thought it was supposed to be a Paladin because of the crown and purple colour scheme (it reminds me of the purple Judgement set).

By the way that left transmog looks great, that would totally pass as a dark fanatic of N'Zoth.

[elbleuet]

The high elves were part of the alliance of lordaeron for like ONE year, which do not exist anymore, also as long as i know, blood elves are literally high elves, as there is not a difference between them, and void elves are tainted by the void.

Yeah, true high elves are in the horde, as they are the ones that can be truly made without any "infusion" or corruption, aka purified blue eyed belfs with no light eyes

High elves are for everyone but :

In the Horde they are called blood elves.
In the Alliance they're still called High elves.

[Vaedan]

And when I see something that is bad story, I say it. Alliance story is bad. It's a meme at this point.

The Horde has Blood Elves because the story was set up from W3. They left the alliance because of racism.
You just don't like that story set up because it took things you like, to the faction you don't like. Not my problem, I'm afraid.

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Your just ignoring the racism behind why the Blood Elves left the alliance.

again, it's taking features you like to the faction you don't like. Its not my fault your Alliance has crap writing which makes everything about the Humans. Honestly, I'm all for deleting the alliance races, barring Humans, at this point, because it wouldn't actually impact on the Alliance story.

Get over the Sin'dorei, Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon already.

I agree with you that W3 established lore for blood elves alienating from the Alliance. The weird thing is that these events (Garithos' racism) is not reflected in their intro at all.

It is perfectly understandable that blood elves joined the Horde at the time they did. They want to use the Horde to reach Outlands and be done with it. At that point, they did not want to make great friends with Horde races. It changed in the moment they learned about Kael's betrayal and decided to put him down. That made sense.

What does not make sense is for blood elves staying part of the Horde afterwards. It stopped making sense with Lich King's defeat. With Sunwell restored and Scourge weakened, they had no reason to stay within the Horde. With their history of leaving faction after they find their partnership not benefitial, it seems quite weird. Garrosh's reign was also based on racism and orc supremacy, needs of other Horde nations were not needed. Blood elves had to contribute their resources and precious lives to Horde's warmongering, leaving their own boarders poorly defended. They even had to invite Silver Covenant for help during Amani crisis, because Farstriders were few and likely fought elsewhere. Besides Forsaken and handful of Darkspears, Horde never provided any significant help to blood elves, they mostly drained them. For that reason, I really don't like blood elves yelling Lok'tar ogar. It paints them in submissive light, it feels that they do what they are told. It just don't feel right.

I don't mean they should rejoin the Alliance. They shouldn't. Alliance had their thalassian population from exiles. What would be most organic decision for sin'dorei is to establish themselves as sovereign neutral nation, focusing on securing their homeland, clearing Ghostlands of the Scourge and restoring their kingdom's glory. Horde Warchiefs did not allowed them to do so. They demanded to die for them in a conflicts with little importance for blood elves. If there is any faction that could provide meaningful help for blood elves, it's Argent Crusade. They have holdings close to their lands, they showed interest in cleansing Plaguelands and fighting Scourge, which is one of the main threats to Quel'thalas.

Given the narrative, the only thing the Horde did for blood elves was allowing them enter Outland alongside them. Sunwell was restored by Velen (Alliance leader) with help of Shattered Sun Offensive (neutral faction) and help of heroes (both H&A), Lich King was defeated by united effort of both factions, Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade. Horde never bother to secure Quel'thalas. Horde never bothered to help cleanse Quel'thalas. My question is, why should be blood elves interested in being part of the faction which did so little for them?

[Tanaria]

Tanaria, Blizzard's principal narrative designer.

Thanks Tanaria, but this is about High elves we're talking here, not about your wishes and headcanons.

Fair is fair. You'll get an Elf city and will probably look better than Silvermoon.
It'll just be a Night Elf and/or Highborne-like city with kaldorei assets.

Plus an updated Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isle in comparison to the Blood Elves and Horde, getting a new Quel'Thalas storyline.

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I agree with you that W3 established lore for blood elves alienating from the Alliance. The weird thing is that these events (Garithos' racism) is not reflected in their intro at all.

It's not reflected, because it didn't specifically happen to the Blood Elves in Silvermoon. I mean, they were aware of it, because they didn't trust the Alliance as per the quests with the Blood Hawk Farstriders.
It was the Sunfury, who later joined the Legion, who bore the brunt of the racism.

Rommath was part of that and was very influence is not joining forces with the Alliance.

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What does not make sense is for blood elves staying part of the Horde afterwards. It stopped making sense with Lich King's defeat. With Sunwell restored and Scourge weakened, they had no reason to stay within the Horde. With their history of leaving faction after they find their partnership not benefitial, it seems quite weird. Garrosh's reign was also based on racism and orc supremacy, needs of other Horde nations were not needed. Blood elves had to contribute their resources and precious lives to Horde's warmongering, leaving their own boarders poorly defended. They even had to invite Silver Covenant for help during Amani crisis, because Farstriders were few and likely fought elsewhere. Besides Forsaken and handful of Darkspears, Horde never provided any significant help to blood elves, they mostly drained them. For that reason, I really don't like blood elves yelling Lok'tar ogar. It paints them in submissive light, it feels that they do what they are told. It just don't feel right.

I don't mean they should rejoin the Alliance. They shouldn't. Alliance had their thalassian population from exiles. What would be most organic decision for sin'dorei is to establish themselves as sovereign neutral nation, focusing on securing their homeland, clearing Ghostlands of the Scourge and restoring their kingdom's glory. Horde Warchiefs did not allowed them to do so. They demanded to die for them in a conflicts with little importance for blood elves. If there is any faction that could provide meaningful help for blood elves, it's Argent Crusade. They have holdings close to their lands, they showed interest in cleansing Plaguelands and fighting Scourge, which is one of the main threats to Quel'thalas.

Given the narrative, the only thing the Horde did for blood elves was allowing them enter Outland alongside them. Sunwell was restored by Velen (Alliance leader) with help of Shattered Sun Offensive (neutral faction) and help of heroes (both H&A), Lich King was defeated by united effort of both factions, Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade. Horde never bother to secure Quel'thalas. Horde never bothered to help cleanse Quel'thalas. My question is, why should be blood elves interested in being part of the faction which did so little for them?

Did it make sense for the Night Elves and Forsaken to choose their respective factions?

However bad it was, Blizzard went with it and the Blood Elves, mainly through their link with Sylvanas, sided with the Horde.
The Draenei, through their immediate meeting with the Night Elves and through a small Alliance expedition, where a night elf priestess held a position of authority - joined the Alliance. Plus, they were attacked by Sunfury Blood Elves - so relations were already sour between them and the Sin'dorei - even though Silvermoon had no true idea on what Sunstrider was doing.

Kael'thas and Rommath, having knowledge on the Mag'har Orcs who weren't corrupted by fel - that isn't really referenced. Silvermoon didn't know them, but it certainly knew Sylvanas.

[Vaedan]

Did it make sense for the Night Elves and Forsaken to choose their respective factions?

However bad it was, Blizzard went with it and the Blood Elves, mainly through their link with Sylvanas, sided with the Horde.
The Draenei, through their immediate meeting with the Night Elves and through a small Alliance expedition, where a night elf priestess held a position of authority - joined the Alliance. Plus, they were attacked by Sunfury Blood Elves - so relations were already sour between them and the Sin'dorei - even though Silvermoon had no true idea on what Sunstrider was doing.

Kael'thas and Rommath, having knowledge on the Mag'har Orcs who weren't corrupted by fel - that isn't really referenced. Silvermoon didn't know them, but it certainly knew Sylvanas.

Again, I'm not arguing against blood elves joining the Horde. I'm actually fine with blood elves joining the Horde and staying there until the end of WotLK. My point was about them not actually having enough motivations to stay afterwards, because the Horde only drags them to conflicts unrelated to them, costing them resources and lives of their people, leaving them unable to fully defend their homeland when Amani prepares to attack Silvermoon, or even fully retake Ghostlands and restore the land. Elves also faced mistrust and prejudice from other Horde races since they joined the faction and later even racism (hello Garrosh). They left Alliance for way less then that. Also, I'm not saying they should join the Alliance. They shouldn't.

It has also nothing to do with night elves, forsaken or draenei joining their perspective factions too.

[ravenmoon]

Blood Elves stopped being Alliance after the 2nd War.
It clearly states that Anasterian did not feel that the Alliance had his people's interests at heart and then we had Garithos afterwards.

The Blood Elves and Lor'themar especially, had a clear link with Sylvanas, which in turn, brought them closer to the Horde. Kael'thas was aware of this allegiance and he pushed for it through Rommath.
Lor'themar had no links to the Alliance, so joining the Horde was (and still remains) the better option.

If they were alliance, they'd be enveloped into "Human Potential" and we see how well that works for the Night Elves. It's part of the reason why I am such a Blood Elf fan - they would have 0 charm being Alliance. So bland and boring and just LOTR - I mean, if you want to play a race, that is allied to Humans and looks like Blood Elves (without the void stuff), play LOTRO.

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Well, it's not about letting the elf haters get to me, it's all about what's fair. I mean, elves have 4 playable races at the moment. We're not exactly bleeding for options.

And, I remember how I felt when I saw WoD for the first time:
"Great...more Orcs!"
I don't want that same feeling to happen, about Elves. Yes, Elves will take a big stage in WoW because they are a large species, but just like Orcs in 2014, you can have far too much of a good thing.

I'd love more Blood Elf options, but I'm a realist and the fact is, we aren't starved for options. We can play as 4 different elves and RP 5 different elves. Sometimes, we have to take a step back and let the other races have their time. I mean, we're all still waiting for the Draenei and Darkspear Heritage armors.

Maybe San'layn/Dark Ranger options come available in 11.0 or something? Maybe "Rommath/Magister" tattoos come then as well?

Nah, we are talking about more elves, not more of other races. Presumably more elves means more other sub races.

but night elf worgen are worgen, why should humans be favoured as the humanoid version of those worgens givign them yet another race? why can't it be night elves who only have 1 allied race, even though elves have 2.

We want more elves, but that's not to say we want them without other races.

Your WoD scenario is when Blizzard just focused on orcs.. , no other races.

If we get naga, you can't avoid elves, they are an elf based race, whether as n allied race or full race. And an elf for them would be cool. Optional transofmation means if you hate elves you can just stay in serpent form, if you love elves you have a choice. Haters would say, give us serpent form and remove elf mode totally, the reason they say that even though they have a choice to be in serpent form all the times, is because they hate elves, and don't like you playing them.. so whether blizzard gave no elf improvements, they'd complain..because you play it, and theys ee many elves around.

The elven subraces have not increased the elf fans or elven popularity, what's happened is that the elf players have used other elf options. mostly. I think only human n umbers suffered from void elves really, but then humans are still very poppular.

[FossilFree]

That's why it's so silly to define race in WoW solely by the biological component. If there is a valid conceptualization in WoW about race, it has to take into account both culture and society of the group. Biology alone does not a race make, nor is necessary according WoW itself. If Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, so are Maghar and Orcs.

I do think most of the WoW "races" would fit more with the concept of ethnicity, but I would think that wouldn't apply to "races" that are afflicted by curses/cosmic forces, as you can't really change your ethnic group.

That's why "race" is a weird term in WoW, and really only makes sense as a more complex grouping that not only accounts for biology, but also society and culture.

Indeed. I wish they would use the term species for groups that share underlying biology and culture or ethnicity for artistic/linguistic variations on a species, like Wildhammer dwarves could be of the species dwarf but the culture Wildhammer. There could also be a tab to select an ethnicity on the character creation screen, where the customization options are bundled by cultural group.

[Kyriani]

Again, I'm not arguing against blood elves joining the Horde. I'm actually fine with blood elves joining the Horde and staying there until the end of WotLK. My point was about them not actually having enough motivations to stay afterwards, because the Horde only drags them to conflicts unrelated to them, costing them resources and lives of their people, leaving them unable to fully defend their homeland when Amani prepares to attack Silvermoon, or even fully retake Ghostlands and restore the land. Elves also faced mistrust and prejudice from other Horde races since they joined the faction and later even racism (hello Garrosh). They left Alliance for way less then that. Also, I'm not saying they should join the Alliance. They shouldn't.

It has also nothing to do with night elves, forsaken or draenei joining their perspective factions too.

I can think of one big incentive for the blood elves staying with the horde, and that is that they have learned from the past.

The people of quel'thalas have realized that they cannot go it alone anymore, nor can they just skate by as fair weather friends to those who help them in times of need. I believe the blood elves have realized that, for the security of their own future, they need to be part of something bigger (Horde or Alliance, doesn't really matter). The horde and the alliance are the two greatest military powers on azeroth (that we know of). Being a half-hearted friend to one or the other, and then dipping off when times are good for the elves, won't secure their future. To do that, the blood elves had to commit to one of those powers, and they were written as choosing the horde.

For the blood elves to abandoned that association, just as they had done to lordaeron, would leave them with no one to turn to when the next threat arises. They would have burned most bridges with either great military power that could have come to their aid... just like when there was no one there to stop Arthas from marching his way to the sunwell and slaughtering 90% of their population.

To me it makes perfect sense that the blood elves have chosen to stay with the horde. That's not to say they have been happy with everything the horde has done, but I believe the idea, especially now with the council instead of warchief, is for the blood elves to play a much more significant part in how the horde operates. Silvermoon would be less of a vassal state of the horde, and more of an equal partner that has more power to influence and shape the horde's future than they ever had before.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Indeed. I wish they would use the term species for groups that share underlying biology and culture or ethnicity for artistic/linguistic variations on a species, like Wildhammer dwarves could be of the species dwarf but the culture Wildhammer. There could also be a tab to select an ethnicity on the character creation screen, where the customization options are bundled by cultural group.

That's the thing, the problem is that in WoW the term race is just too broad; it's used to describe species, ethnicities and magical/mechanical changes. Even if there were to be a biological component for differentiation for all races (there isn't) it is way too broad to have a meaningful value.

It's just weird that Draenei, Tauren, Night Elf, Blood Elf and Void Elves are all defined as "different races" when the degree separation/distinction between them is so different. It's just not specific enough.

And given all the different groups we call "races", race in WoW is so nebulous that discussions about it just lack nuance, when their main purpose really is just a gameplay thing.

Maybe it would be nicer if we had a more nuanced species and ethnicities subcategorization, but we might as well could just see "race" in WoW as a concept heavily weighted by gaemplay decisions rather than something that makes exclusive sense within the lore, because as it stands, "race" does not require a biological component.

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Also @Kyriani yay! you were able to change your icon!

[Mungho]

Want to know what makes me believe that draenei were originally supposed to be horde and blood elves alliance? It's the fact that the Exodar has an easily accessible back entrance right to the racial leader, while silvermoon doesn't lol!

All of these are without considering flying in mind cause there wasn't any flying in vanilla zones until cata:

Orgrimmar - side entrance to thrall
Undercity - tunnel to sylvanas
Thunderbluff - a road behind most of the structures, away from the npc's leading right to cairne/baine

vs.

Stormwind - have to go through the front gate, several choke points, and lots of npcs (prior to the docks exposing the other side but even then it's probably a longer road to Varian/Anduin).
Teldrassil - have to go through auberdine, to get to boat, to get to base of teldrassil, to use teleporter up to main city, then ride through all the npcs.
Ironforge - have to go through the front gate, ride through several choke points and npcs, before you get to the target.

It's probably just my own personal conspiracy theory but damn if it doesn't just make sense to me.

From what I remember the devs saying, in the planning stages for BC the alliance were originally going to have HE, the horde would get ogres. The lack of an appealing model for female ogres and market research among Asian players asking for a cute race lead to HE going to the horde as BE. For the alliance, pandaren where chosen, but then switched with firbolg, then, as development progressed, at the last minute they were replaced with draenei. You can see this with all the firbolg stuff on Azuremyst isle. I can't remember where I read all these things, but it makes a lot of sense.

[Ardenaso]

ngl Furbolgs are cool I wish we had them too

Furbolgs and Ogres seem to be perfect counterparts

[FossilFree]

That's the thing, the problem is that in WoW the term race is just too broad; it's used to describe species, ethnicities and magical/mechanical changes. Even if there were to be a biological component for differentiation for all races (there isn't) it is way too broad to have a meaningful value.

It's just weird that Draenei, Tauren, Night Elf, Blood Elf and Void Elves are all defined as "different races" when the degree separation/distinction between them is so different. It's just not specific enough.

And given all the different groups we call "races", race in WoW is so nebulous that discussions about it just lack nuance, when their main purpose really is just a gameplay thing.

Maybe it would be nicer if we had a more nuanced species and ethnicities subcategorization, but we might as well could just see "race" in WoW as a concept heavily weighted by gaemplay decisions rather than something that makes exclusive sense within the lore, because as it stands, "race" does not require a biological component.

Yea that's definitely the problem using the term "race." It tries to mix up species and culture into a single descriptive term, when those things are really not equivalent to each other at all.

It would be cool to see Thalassian elf as the species with culture being either High Elf, Blood Elf, or Void Elf. Then if you picked Void Elf it sticks you on Alliance and Blood Elf sticks you on Horde. Someone suggested this a few pages back with images of how it might look on the character creation screen. I really like that suggestion.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yea that's definitely the problem using the term "race." It tries to mix up species and culture into a single descriptive term, when those things are really not equivalent to each other at all.

It would be cool to see Thalassian elf as the species with culture being either High Elf, Blood Elf, or Void Elf. Then if you picked Void Elf it sticks you on Alliance and Blood Elf sticks you on Horde. Someone suggested this a few pages back with images of how it might look on the character creation screen. I really like that suggestion.

Indeed, I like that one a lot too! IMO the character creation screen could be revamped in much cooler ways. If there was customization options regarding racials during creation, this could have so much more potential.

TBH I would go as far as to put all elves on the same category

[Yarathir]

Aww... Bad bad humans.

That's why the Blood Elves returned to Dalaran twice I suppose... Because humans are really bad and racist.


Anyways... Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon are part of Alliance Lore more than ever now. So no I don't get over it.

Also your comment about how the Alliance is all about humans and its history so bad is really funny considering what the blood elves have become in the Horde since Wotlk... Humans with long ears having faith in the light.

Thankfully they made great buddies with three groups that tried to wipe them out. :^)

But at least they didn't have an individual member of those groups act racist! Insert clap emojis here.