1. #25361
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I'd much rather Blizzard add a subrace system. I wouldn't want to be stuck in void form while in combat. If anything your suggestion would ruin the whole option to headcanon your velf as a helf since you'd be forced into void form any time you got into combat. At least as things are right now, you can use a cancelaura macro to prevent entropic embrace from changing your appearance.

    I think velfs are fine as they are right now, but a subrace system would be better imo and benefit more than just void elves. Like if blizz adds frostborn customization to dwarves for example. A subrace system could let it just be a drop down off of the dwarf race. Same for wildhammer.
    If you have to gimp your DPS to fulfill your headcannon then maybe blizzard shouldn't have that playbase in mind...

    So if you're still turning voidy with entropic embrace, showing that you're actually a velf, then just splitting the normal skins and void skins to a worgen situation shouldn't be an issue.

    This way you can parade all you want as a helf when not in combat but not to the point of complete loss of identity when you at least revert to your true form in combat, just like worgen.

    And again give another option to automatically assume normal form the moment you drop combat. And I'm pretty sure lore wise alleria assumes her void form in we the lore dictates as combat. Was she not in void form whenwver she actively fighting mobs post argus?

    And biologically bronze beard and wildhammer are the same race. From a lore stand point, your dwarf with wild hammer tattoos is just a regular ironforge dwarf. Unless you change your heritage Everytime you visit a barber to remove tattoos when they clash with your mog.
    Last edited by Varx; 2021-09-30 at 06:58 PM.

  2. #25362
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    If you have to gimp your DPS to fulfill your headcannon then maybe blizzard shouldn't have that playbase in mind...

    So if you're still turning voidy with entropic embrace, showing that you're actually a velf, then just splitting the normal skins and void skins to a worgen situation shouldn't be an issue.

    This way you can parade all you want as a helf when not in combat but not to the point of complete loss of identity when you at least revert to your true form in combat, just like worgen.

    And again give another option to automatically assume normal form the moment you drop combat.
    Or we can just ask for lore to be added to void elves explaining how the new recruits get their powers, and that the new recruits don't necessarily have to have blue skin and hair? Sounds like a much better choice considering it doesn't require changing how things currently work and it has the added benefit of expanding on void elf lore. :P

    The point is... I don't want to be forced into void form while in combat with no option to opt out.

    It sounds more like you just want to piss off helfers than any genuine concern about void elves imo.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:01 PM.

  3. #25363
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well right now they have identity issues so this would fix that.
    Subjective AF; how and why would forcing void form during combat "fix VE identity" in any meaningful manner?

    Well when you're a void elf that doesn't look like a void elf then theres something wrong. Even alleria doesn't stay normal when she's fighting.
    Which is isn't true. During the Telogrus scenario Alleria enters voidform at will, but during the battle of Lordaeron she doesn't do it at all.

  4. #25364
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well when you're a void elf that doesn't look like a void elf then theres something wrong. Even alleria doesn't stay normal when she's fighting.
    You don't know the Void elf's passive racial ability proc then.

  5. #25365
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Subjective AF; how and why would forcing void form during combat "fix VE identity" in any meaningful manner?



    Which is isn't true. During the Telogrus scenario Alleria enters voidform at will, but during the battle of Lordaeron she doesn't do it at all.
    Well she is a special case so I can see why.

    As for identity playing a velf that looks like a vanilla elf kinda goes against, you know, the VOID in void elf. Since you're not actually a pure high elf. No matter what your head cannon says.

    So this way both sides win. You can act like a high elf all you want but at least in combat your true form comes out. I mean it already happens with EB so might as well.

    That way we don't have newbies be all like "I thought pandas were the only neutral race in wow" when doing bgs and the integrity of the race stays intact, especially for those not too savvy with the lore.

  6. #25366
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well she is a special case so I can see why.

    As for identity playing a velf that looks like a vanilla elf kinda goes against, you know, the VOID in void elf. Since you're not actually a pure high elf. No matter what your head cannon says.

    So this way both sides win. You can act like a high elf all you want but at least in combat your true form comes out. I mean it already happens with EB so might as well.

    That way we don't have newbies be all like "I thought pandas were the only neutral race in wow" when doing bgs and the integrity of the race stays intact, especially for those not too savvy with the lore.
    Again you sound more like you want this to happen just to piss off helfers, not out of any genuine concern about void elf lore.

    If dwarves can have wildhammer customization without any catches, then there's no reason why anything has to change for void elves.

  7. #25367
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well she is a special case so I can see why.

    As for identity playing a velf that looks like a vanilla elf kinda goes against, you know, the VOID in void elf. Since you're not actually a pure high elf. No matter what your head cannon says.

    So this way both sides win. You can act like a high elf all you want but at least in combat your true form comes out. I mean it already happens with EB so might as well.

    That way we don't have newbies be all like "I thought pandas were the only neutral race in wow" when doing bgs and the integrity of the race stays intact, especially for those not too savvy with the lore.
    This is hilarious, since your only argument is your OWN headcanon of how Void Elves should enter on voidform during combat because "identity", despite not really working like that for any known void elf.

    It's really you just trying to enforce your own subjectivity in others.

    For real tho, does this flimsy argument have any substance beyond the pretty evident "but you aren't really a high elf"? Is yourmotivation just that? Because if you really cared for void elf identity, you would have a better argument than forcing voidform during combat.

    So that's the thing, you seem to care less for VE identity and more about denying HE identity, that's why your idea is so crap.
    Last edited by MyWholeLifeIsThunder; 2021-09-30 at 07:21 PM.

  8. #25368
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    This is hilarious, since your only argument is your OWN headcanon of how Void Elves should enter on voidform during combat because "identity", despite not really working like that for any known void elf.

    It's really you just trying to enforce your own subjectivity in others.

    For real tho, does this flimsy argument have any substance beyond the pretty evident "but you aren't really a high elf"? Is yourmotivation just that? Because if you really cared for void elf identity, you would have a better argument than forcing voidform during combat.

    So that's the thing, you seem to care less for VE identity and more about denying HE identity, that's why your idea is so crap.
    Yeah and my headcannon preserves the void in void elf. I've said it before introducing normals skins diluted the velf race. I mean look at how NB recently got glowy hands. All ARs are getting new options that highlight what makes them different while velves just got normal options.

    So this is why their identity got diluted. So that's why I know that if it was changed to separate the two skin types to worgen status it'd make both parties happy while keeping in void in void.elf intact.

  9. #25369
    The simplest answer to any questions about the new customization options is to add lore that details how the new recruits are becoming void elves and that this process isn't as traumatic or as transformative as the disrupted ritual trap that Umbric and his followers were originally caught in.

    This explanation can also be supported by the fact that Alleria is considered a void elf, yet retains her usual appearance, and her process of becoming infused with the void was different from Umbric's. If the new recruits are mastering the void in a similar manner to Alleria, then it makes perfect sense for them to retain their usual appearance. And if that process isn't perfect because it cuts corners since dark naaru aren't readily available (not that dark naaru are necessarily required), then that could explain why some new recruits still have blue skin and tentacles.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #25370
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Again you sound more like you want this to happen just to piss off helfers, not out of any genuine concern about void elf lore.

    If dwarves can have wildhammer customization without any catches, then there's no reason why anything has to change for void elves.
    Not true, I just want velves to be velves not "void only when it matches my mog" elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    The simplest answer to any questions about the new customization options is to add lore that details how the new recruits are becoming void elves and that this process isn't as traumatic or as transformative as the disrupted ritual trap that Umbric and his followers were originally caught in.
    But why???? What's the point. Why make a void elf race to then make them look like regular belves.


    That's like play worgen in perma human form or green maghar. You can make we lore you want to justify it but it only hurts it in the end. All for the sake of some helfers sanity.

  11. #25371
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Not true, I just want velves to be velves not "void only when it matches my mog" elves.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But why???? What's the point. Why make a void elf race to then make them look like regular belves.


    That's like play worgen in perma human form or green maghar. You can make we lore you want to justify it but it only hurts it in the end. All for the sake of some helfers sanity.
    What's the point of forcing void elves into a different form while in combat? They already have entropic embrace affecting their appearance in combat at regular intervals. Again, you sound more like you just want to piss off helfers.

    Nothing about my suggestion "hurts" void elves. If anything is expands their lore... something void elves desperately need.

    Velves don't have to be "velves" unless the player chooses for them to be. That's the point of the high elf customization options. You want to remove that choice from the player's purview and rob them of the agency blizzard has given.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #25372
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    What's the point of forcing void elves into a different form while in combat? They already have entropic embrace affecting their appearance in combat at regular intervals. Again, you sound more like you just want to piss off helfers.

    Nothing about my suggestion "hurts" void elves. If anything is expands their lore... something void elves desperately need.

    Velves don't have to be "velves" unless the player chooses for them to be. That's the point of the high elf customization options. You want to remove that choice from the player's purview and rob them of the agency blizzard has given us.
    Haha what? If you don't wanna be a velf then be a belf, like on horde. You can't be a velf and then not be a velf. Like you said, you have EB, completely obliterating any semblance of being a helf.

    Sure you have EB but worgen don't turn into wolf men for sporadic intervals. That'd be ridiculous. Plus EB is just like a short super power form it shouldn't be the only division between belves and velves.

    That should be their normal idle void form. Again, like worgen. Other wise it's silly to even make the race VOID to start with if they're only gonna be partially void.

  13. #25373
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Haha what? If you don't wanna be a velf then be a belf, like on horde. You can't be a velf and then not be a velf. Like you said, you have EB, completely obliterating any semblance of being a helf.

    Sure you have EB but worgen don't turn into wolf men for sporadic intervals. That'd be ridiculous. Plus EB is just like a short super power form it shouldn't be the only division between belves and velves.

    That should be their normal idle void form. Again, like worgen. Other wise it's silly to even make the race VOID to start with if they're only gonna be partially void.
    Velfs aren't worgen and don't operate under the same rules and circumstances. I like velfs as they currently are and will enjoy them more in 9.1.5. And yes you can be a velf, but not a velf, by virtue of the high elf customization. That's the point of those options.

    Thankfully this is all a pointless conversation because your suggestion will never happen. If dwarves get frostborn customization options, it will be the same thing. They will be plain bronzebeards under the hood, but aesthetically they would appear to be frostborn dwarves (from wotlk).
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:55 PM.

  14. #25374
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Velfs aren't worgen and don't operate under the same rules and circumstances. I like velfs as they currently are and will enjoy them more in 9.1.5. And yes you can be a velf, but not a velf, by virtue of the high elf customization. That's the point of those options.

    Thankfully this is all a pointless conversation because your suggestion will never happen. If dwarves get frostborn customization options, it will be the same thing. They will be plain bronzebeards under the hood, but aesthetically they would appear to be frostborn dwarves (from wotlk).
    Since when can vanilla high elves turn into void beasts? I must have missed that in wrath. So no pure options or not a velf is a velf.

    Those options are there to scratch a superficial itch at the expense of diluting the velf race.

  15. #25375
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Since when can vanilla high elves turn into void beasts? I must have missed that in wrath. So no pure options or not a velf is a velf.
    You can keep trying to justify your suggestion but it just comes across as copium to me. My advice? Get over it.

    Void elves got high elf customization options. Blizzard gave alliance players the options to portray their velfs as high elves instead, if they desire to. The options also let players portray their characters as new void elf recruits who are mastering the void through methods similar to Alleria's, or allows players to mix void aesthetics with natural aesthetics to portray their character as something in between.

    The point is, these customization options give players agency. The choice of how a player portrays their character is theirs. You want to remove that choice. Fortunately, that's just not a suggestion that blizzard is going to listen to. Whatever lies ahead for void elves as far as lore and aesthetic options are concerned, I think you need to come to terms with the fact that it's not going to be 100% void themed.

  16. #25376
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    You can keep trying to justify your suggestion but it just comes across as copium to me. My advice? Get over it.

    Void elves got high elf customization options. Blizzard gave alliance players the options to portray their velfs as high elves instead, if they desire to. The options also let players portray their characters as new void elf recruits who are mastering the void through methods similar to Alleria's, or allows players to mix void aesthetics with natural aesthetics to portray their character as something in between.

    The point is, these customization options give players agency. The choice of how a player portrays their character is theirs. You want to remove that choice. Fortunately, that's just not a suggestion that blizzard is going to listen to. Whatever lies ahead for void elves as far as lore and aesthetic options are concerned, I think you need to come to terms with the fact that it's not going to be 100% void themed.
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is. You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity. Other wise we'd have insane things like green skinned maghar.

  17. #25377
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Yeah and my headcannon preserves the void in void elf. I've said it before introducing normals skins diluted the velf race. I mean look at how NB recently got glowy hands. All ARs are getting new options that highlight what makes them different while velves just got normal options.

    So this is why their identity got diluted. So that's why I know that if it was changed to separate the two skin types to worgen status it'd make both parties happy while keeping in void in void.elf intact.
    But then again you utterly fail to consider how forcing VE players to enter a standardized void form during combat may not really be something VE players as a whole want; what's the point of customization and choice if you enter combat and end up the same shade of blue regardless?

    This is why your idea is crap, because it takes choice away from others to fit your own subjectivity. It's so self serving to force other to have less choice because it suits your sensibilities. Why not give void elves more void options? why not allow VE to choose the EE skin tone as default?

    The whole idea of "their identity got diluted" is so selfish; by all you say, other's players choice and immersion is less important that your own. How do you not get that? You define the identity and integrity of the race by your own personal parameters, and that's incredibly self centered.

  18. #25378
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is. You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity. Other wise we'd have insane things like green skinned maghar.
    If a player wants to play Alliance high elf, forcing him to voidform 100% of time kind of take that option away. Your Entropic Embrace argument does not make a sense, because it appears only briefly and it's innactive most of time and players can avoid it with macro.

    The most logical move would be allowing EE activate at will, like Aleria does. In that way, players who wants Void has that tool, while players who does not can ignore the button.

    Also, obviously you're not getting green skined maghar, but you got various clan features to play as blackrock, laughing skull, etc.

  19. #25379
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    But then again you utterly fail to consider how forcing VE players to enter a standardized void form during combat may not really be something VE players as a whole want; what's the point of customization and choice if you enter combat and end up the same shade of blue regardless?

    This is why your idea is crap, because it takes choice away from others to fit your own subjectivity. It's so self serving to force other to have less choice because it suits your sensibilities. Why not give void elves more void options? why not allow VE to choose the EE skin tone as default?

    The whole idea of "their identity got diluted" is so selfish; by all you say, other's players choice and immersion is less important that your own. How do you not get that? You define the identity and integrity of the race by your own personal parameters, and that's incredibly self centered.
    Dude the helfers selfishness is what screwed up the race in the first place. "F the fact that I'm playing a velf, no I want normal options instead of void ones because I want high elves and fook the rest of the alliance players who actually like the velf race."

    Meanwhile all other ARs get options that highlight what makes them different.

    So you're a total hypocrite calling me selfish. At least I want what was given to be made better, not given a shit copy paste and sold as new just because a loud minority is crying for it.

    But wait now you want the same amount of effort to void options too on top of what they got. Like you think velf is the master race or something? Should they have a second heritage set too? You know to match their pure options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    If a player wants to play Alliance high elf, forcing him to voidform 100% of time kind of take that option away. Your Entropic Embrace argument does not make a sense, because it appears only briefly and it's innactive most of time and players can avoid it with macro.

    The most logical move would be allowing EE activate at will, like Aleria does. In that way, players who wants Void has that tool, while players who does not can ignore the button.

    Also, obviously you're not getting green skined maghar, but you got various clan features to play as blackrock, laughing skull, etc.
    Lol so the only way to be a true helf is to gimp your performance nice....

    Also no shit we won't get green maghar since it goes against what being maghar is. I guess the velf devs missed that memo.

  20. #25380
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is.
    That's subjective.

    You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.
    We already have EB so we don't need "the worgen treatment". Velfs aren't worgen. And "the worgen treatment" would remove player agency.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity.
    If you believe that then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

    From Game Director Ion Hazikostas:


    I think we are planning on just broadly incorporating the range of character customization options for NPCs as well as players just across the world. I think in some ways, frankly, it's a bit of a retcon. Like we're not going to change existing named established characters and make them look different. But walking around Stormwind or around other parts of the world, you will see guards and random civilians that have these looks as if they've been there all along.
    letting people express themselves as their avatars with the greatest diversity possible in the game world.
    From Technical director Frank Kowalski:

    The goal is for players to customize their characters the way they want, rather than the outdated and limited character customization World of Warcraft’s offered so far.
    From the Blizzard website:

    With hundreds of new additions with thousands of new combinations, Shadowlands’ new character customization options will help you better create the characters you envision in your mind.
    You fought the good fight, but it's over now. Time to admit defeat and move on. Take a page from Elsa's book and "let it go".
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 08:36 PM.

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