Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Rhlor]

Why exactly can't Blood and Void elves both get red eyes, like they both got blue eyes? There's really no reason why red eyes should be exclusive to Blood elves when Thalassian undead also join the ranks of the Ren'dorei (Void elf Death Knights).

Red eyes for all dk!!!

[Vaedan]

Isn't it about time that Void Elves should be getting "void" based features. I mean, Varodoc is basically asking for everything "Blood Elf" but not under the Blood Elf tag.

Or maybe Void Elves should be removed if their playerbase can't be anything other than Blood Elf clones.

Well, I personaly don't share this desire with Varadoc and I think there should be something blood elves have for their own. High elf fantasy is now shared by both groups, plus void elves have their own theme.

What is left for blood elves is:
- Fel theme
- Undeath theme
- Light theme

The story of blood elves evolved away from fel theme radicaly, so while I wouldn't mind blood elves having few customizations as a reminder of their dark times, I think there is not enough space for that already.

Light theme is most logical one and is also in direct opposition to Void theme of void elves, so I guess that's the most solid base which blood elves can build upon.

Undeath theme have quite huge potential too. Not that undead elves are part of the Horde for years through Dark Rangers and recently San'layn, I think it could give blood elf story new interesting twists how major society reconnects with their fallen, thus with how they are dealing with the trauma of their nations fall. It is kind of poetic, if you think about it.

[Tanaria]

Well, I personaly don't share this desire with Varadoc and I think there should be something blood elves have for their own. High elf fantasy is now shared by both groups, plus void elves have their own theme.

What is left for blood elves is:
- Fel theme
- Undeath theme
- Light theme

The story of blood elves evolved away from fel theme radicaly, so while I wouldn't mind blood elves having few customizations as a reminder of their dark times, I think there is not enough space for that already.

Light theme is most logical one and is also in direct opposition to Void theme of void elves, so I guess that's the most solid base which blood elves can build upon.

Undeath theme have quite huge potential too. Not that undead elves are part of the Horde for years through Dark Rangers and recently San'layn, I think it could give blood elf story new interesting twists how major society reconnects with their fallen, thus with how they are dealing with the trauma of their nations fall. It is kind of poetic, if you think about it.

Overall, I'd say that the one true theme out of these three that separates the Blood Elves from the others is their Dark Rangers/San'layn sections. Red eyes and pasty white skin can operate for both Blood Elf Hunters (Dark Rangers) or Blood Elf Mages or Warlocks (San'layn spellcasters.)

Fel - yes, I know where people get that, but High Elves have used fel magic and it wasn't fel magic that caused the rift between the High Elves and Blood Elves. Now, Felblood Elves are quite cool, but like High Elves - they don't warrant an allied race slot. If Blood Elves lost the Sunwell, could Felbloods make a come back? Maybe...but I'm not convinced. Lor'themar doesn't seem keen on fel magic.

Light - stronger with the Blood Elves, but High Elves can still be Priests.

[Vaedan]

Overall, I'd say that the one true theme out of these three that separates the Blood Elves from the others is their Dark Rangers/San'layn sections. Red eyes and pasty white skin can operate for both Blood Elf Hunters (Dark Rangers) or Blood Elf Mages or Warlocks (San'layn spellcasters.)

San'layn rogues and warriors would work well too. The only class I'd have real problem with undead customizations are paladins, but I think most people who are attracted to paladin fantasy would naturaly stay away from undead features. Or you could perhaps roleplay your paladin as a fallen Blood Knight whose faith is still strong enough for him to be able to call upon Light. It's not a bad thing and it opens up another unique paladin fantasy, which is not a bad thing.

Fel - yes, I know where people get that, but High Elves have used fel magic and it wasn't fel magic that caused the rift between the High Elves and Blood Elves. Now, Felblood Elves are quite cool, but like High Elves - they don't warrant an allied race slot. If Blood Elves lost the Sunwell, could Felbloods make a come back? Maybe...but I'm not convinced. Lor'themar doesn't seem keen on fel magic.

Yes, we have seen even Quel'dorei had fel magic practise, but most likely not really widespread. It become way more common thing with Kael'thas and it also stopped being defining type of magic for blood elves when he betrayed them to the Burning Legion. Blood elves more or less returned to their previous magical usage, which is mostly arcane, now complemented by the Light.

Light - stronger with the Blood Elves, but High Elves can still be Priests.

Yes, that's true, high elven society was not centered around the Light though. It's also one of the important shift sin'dorei society had. If I'd roleplay high elf, I'd pick hunters and mages before priests.

[Tanaria]

San'layn rogues and warriors would work well too. The only class I'd have real problem with undead customizations are paladins, but I think most people who are attracted to paladin fantasy would naturaly stay away from undead features. Or you could perhaps roleplay your paladin as a fallen Blood Knight whose faith is still strong enough for him to be able to call upon Light. It's not a bad thing and it opens up another unique paladin fantasy, which is not a bad thing.

True, but you could also RP your red eye'd blood elf rogue or warrior as a Dark Ranger. I was just thinking of ways as to why the spellcasters would have red eyes, which would defer to the San'layn.

Yes, we have seen even Quel'dorei had fel magic practise, but most likely not really widespread. It become way more common thing with Kael'thas and it also stopped being defining type of magic for blood elves when he betrayed them to the Burning Legion. Blood elves more or less returned to their previous magical usage, which is mostly arcane, now complemented by the Light.

It became more popular with Kael's Sunfury and later, his Felblood Elves, but the only way I see "fel" returning in a big way to Silvermoon, would be through the loss of the Sunwell.
If Blizzard wanted to push the Blood Elves into a more "Arcane/Fel" based spellcaster's role.

Yes, that's true, high elven society was not centered around the Light though. It's also one of the important shift sin'dorei society had. If I'd roleplay high elf, I'd pick hunters and mages before priests.

High Elves had a Priesthood Order, such as Liadrin was close to being a High Priestess of the Quel'dorei.
Blood Elves established the Blood Knight Order.

Yes, the Light is way more established with the Blood Elves, but it is also a part of the Sin'dorei, than many sin'dorei fans are having a problem with and is seen as the section that is neutralizing the blood elves in a bad way.

[Varodoc]

Well, I personaly don't share this desire with Varadoc and I think there should be something blood elves have for their own.

Demon Hunters and Paladins for the moment would remain a Blood elf-exclusive thing (although I foresee Paladins becoming playable for the Ren'dorei in the future).

As would a racial ability centred around the Arcane.

But lorewise there's no reason why only Blood elves should get red eyes, when Undead elves have also been seen joining the ranks of the Ren'dorei.

"Red eyes" were never a defining element of the Blood elves, but of Undead elves (like Sylvanas...). I would agree with you that the Ren'dorei shouldn't get them IF THE LORE DIDN'T ALLOW THIS, but the lore does allow this via the aforementioned playable Ren'dorei Death Knights.

Perhaps this option should simply be available to all Death Knight races, since it's not exclusive to Undead elves (see Nathanos, Delaryn...).

[Echo of Soul]

We're never getting High Elf.

But that's fine we have plenty of other elven races, I'm sure that you can pretend that your nightborne or blood elf is a high elf.

[Vaedan]

Demon Hunters and Paladins for the moment would remain a Blood elf-exclusive thing (although I foresee Paladins becoming playable for the Ren'dorei in the future).

If we ever get class skins, I'd like to see Void Knight and Riftblade skins for paladins and DHs, replacing their holy/fel abilities with void abilities. That would be cool indeed.

As would a racial ability centred around the Arcane.

I doubt that. Perhaps only Entropic Embrace customization (if we ever get that feature) to adjust its look to be more arcane and less voidy.

But lorewise there's no reason why only Blood elves should get red eyes, when Undead elves have also been seen joining the ranks of the Ren'dorei.

"Red eyes" were never a defining element of the Blood elves, but of Undead elves (like Sylvanas...). I would agree with you that the Ren'dorei shouldn't get them IF THE LORE DIDN'T ALLOW THIS, but the lore does allow this via the aforementioned playable Ren'dorei Death Knights.

Perhaps this option should simply be available to all Death Knight races, since it's not exclusive to Undead elves (see Nathanos, Delaryn...).

Ren'dorei Death Knights are void elves who died fighting in Fourth War and were risen by Bolvar to get second chance to defend Azeroth. Void elves death knights are not former dark rangers or san'layn, who were undead and part of the Horde prior to their transformation. Also, Death Knights are special kind of undead.

So while it's not completely impossible, it's really unlikely some of the undead would be interested in joining void elves. We already know that Death and Void don't have really good relations (Alleria's whispers screaming at the sight of Sylvanas, Void incursion of Bastion), so I don't think undead have any particular desire to delve into the Void. For these reasons, it feels more natural to have these options exclusive on blood elves.

[Varodoc]

If we ever get class skins, I'd like to see Void Knight and Riftblade skins for paladins and DHs, replacing their holy/fel abilities with void abilities. That would be cool indeed.



I doubt that. Perhaps only Entropic Embrace customization (if we ever get that feature) to adjust its look to be more arcane and less voidy.



Ren'dorei Death Knights are void elves who died fighting in Fourth War and were risen by Bolvar to get second chance to defend Azeroth. Void elves death knights are not former dark rangers or san'layn, who were undead and part of the Horde prior to their transformation. Also, Death Knights are special kind of undead.

So while it's not completely impossible, it's really unlikely some of the undead would be interested in joining void elves. We already know that Death and Void don't have really good relations (Alleria's whispers screaming at the sight of Sylvanas, Void incursion of Bastion), so I don't think undead have any particular desire to delve into the Void. For these reasons, it feels more natural to have these options exclusive on blood elves.

Void elf Death Knights being playable is enough as a lore justification.

When we see that Undead elves like Sylvanas, Sira, Delaryn have red eyes; why exactly can't a Ren'dorei Death Knight, raised during the Fourth War, also have red eyes? Is there any reason why this can't happen?

Also there's already a precedent of Undead joining Void-based factions. The Twilight's Hammer had many Undead in its ranks; and one of their high-ranking commanders, Domina, was an Undead. So it would make sense and would have a precedent in the lore if some Undead Thalassian elves, seeking more power and knowledge, joined the Ren'dorei.

[Vaedan]

Void elf Death Knights being playable is enough as a lore justification.

When we see that Undead elves like Sylvanas, Sira, Delaryn have red eyes; why exactly can't a Ren'dorei Death Knight, raised during the Fourth War, also have red eyes? Is there any reason why this can't happen?

I think the reason is that Death Knights are risen by different methods, possibly by power of Domination, which explains their special blue glowing eyes and exceptional powers over undead. The ritual to raise Death Knight must be exceptionaly powerful, because it can raise:

- worgen, who are shown to be immune to other forms of raising to undeath (seen in Silverpine, where humans willingly turn to Worgen on Fenris Isle to prevent Val'kyr to raise them as Forsaken)
- Lightforged draenei, who are imbued by the Light, a cosmic force which is shown to be destructive towards undead
- Void elves, who are infused by the Void, another cosmic force in a conflict with Death

So yes, Death Knights seem to be special case and thus there is not much reason for other undead void elves and red eyes. Speaking of new customizations, I'd rather see old god themed eyes (aka N'zoth eyes) or "starcursed" (the texture we have on our heritage armor and our racial mount) eyes.

[Thalassian Bob]

I'd love to see that added.

This was posted on the official forums. I really wish blood elves had these options.

Yes please! This would be such a cool addition to blood elven customisation (I've wanted to play a dark ranger hunter for yeeeaaars!)! I think it would be a nice consolation for blood elves having to share so much with the void elves recently and, like the golden eyes, would make them feel more distinct than their kin under the Alliance banner.

[Rhlor]

Red eyes for void elves

[FossilFree]

Why not just give all death knights the option to use red or unholy eyes? Blue is great for frost dks, but doesn't really represent the other two specs as well.

[elbleuet]

Red eyes for void elves

Rainbow eyes for blood elves.

[Rhlor]

Rainbow eyes for blood elves.

Blood elves are fine dont need more eye colors

[Alixie]

Rainbow eyes for blood elves.

They already got a rainbow of colors. Green, gold, purple, blue. Red eyes for Void Elves would enhance the spooky voidy-vampire aesthetic. Those ugly widow's peak, Dracula hairdos should have some use.

Besides, most dark rangers are Calia/Sylvanas aligned and it clashes with the "Pure, holy, arcane, uncorrupt, High Elves in all but name post Sunwell renewal" cultural argument Ive been hearing for years from blood elf fans. Any creepy or corruption customizations should be reserved for Void Elves.

[Mungho]

Silver eyes for blood elves would be cool.

[Schwert]

One thing that, sadly, needs to be kept in mind is the Alliance side of the BFA campaign.
San'layn didn't actually finish joining the Horde, and Talanji didn't trust them - and rightfully so, considering the outcome.

I can't link videos but Youtube "Ending the San'layn Threat" for the worst of it.

I don't actually have a screenshot of Talanji's lines, but WoWpedia goes over it.
Essentially, the San'layn needed to prove themselves loyal, or else, and it doesn't look like they actually were. They were just looking for a place they could survive, and didn't care about the undead or the horde as a whole.
It's also extremely odd that they'd only show the betrayal and actual attitude Dreven had to just the Alliance players.

After something this major, it's pretty likely that any clutch that would try to join the Forsaken/Horde would not be trusted even further, or even treated with outright hostility if news of this ever actually did leak to them, and with the Blood Elves being close with the Forsaken, they'd have nowhere else to go. Except maybe to another gothic exile.

Void Elves already have the dark gothic fantasy aesthetic going, and they'd only really need to add some smaller bat shaped ears, tint the paler void skins to have red over purple, and red is a void colour in general, so that's actually just a given during an actual pass for them. Ear shapes like that wouldn't just be aesthetically fitting for just the subrace, and would fit the vibes of the Void Elves in general. It's extremely simple, and the current batch of hair-styles Void Elves have absolutely suit the sexy vampire vibes.

Void Elves gain far more both story wise and customization wise from San'layn than Blood Elves would, who 100% need Dark Rangers as a subrace to mirror it. This also potentially leads into some major story beats, both factions get a major classic gothic fantasy vibe to it, and we get a potential huge spin on vampires vs werewolves with vampires and werewolves on the same side versus zombies and other monsters. (Can you imagine how upset the Forsaken would be if they rejected a different and smaller clutch, only to see them allied with Blood Elf traitors and the Gilneans of all people? This is a good thing.)

Not saying it will happen, but the framework for it all is actually there, and having a typically Horde request go Alliance would actually be a pretty big morale booster after the AR trainwreck in BFA, and an actual first that could potentially entice some transfers from Horde to Alliance to follow them canonically.

Moving away from hypothetical though, red is a void colour in general, and probably should have been on void elves from the get-go. Tinfoil hat makes me think it was to prevent upset with Blood Elf players though. But, the Emerald Nightmare, N'zoth, Nyalotha, all have red themes to them, and maximum corruption in BFA turned you red.
Red is not just undeath. It is a sign of void corruption as well.

Essentially, how all this would come down to is an even split between the two factions on aesthetic.

High Elf --- High Elf
Dark Ranger --- San'layn
Blood Elf --- Void Elf

Blood Elves, in this situation, would theoretically get a ton of customization options reflecting the arcane and light, potentially with a batch of fiery and phoenix themed goodies as well, which they needed at the launch of SL.

Lastly, as a weird aside, as much as I also want Dark Rangers, there's going to be a bit of an aesthetic oddity because if they're attached to Blood Elves, we essentially get Dark Ranger Paladins. Is this something that should be addressed, or do we not care? And at that point, is the request for Void Elf Paladins actually "absurd" if one side can really screw with aesthetics like that? If anything, Void Elves not having access to paladins as a class makes them a more likely candidate for San'layn because the class restrictions suit them.

[Varodoc]

This forum is making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Perhaps this is why this thread reached 1300 pages.

Both races can simply get red eyes and everyone is happy. But do you know what doesn't make anyone happy? Restricting options to just one race, when the other one could easily have it as well.

About Dark Rangers: Is it that far-fetched that some of Sylvanas' former Dark Rangers, disillusioned and confused by what happened, would simply look for protection from Sylvanas' older sister? Not really, certainly weirder things have happened in the lore, like the entirety of WoD, and the redemption of Sylvanas.

[Mungho]

This forum is making this more complicated than it needs to be.Perhaps this is why this thread reached 1300 pages.
Both races can simply get red eyes and everyone is happy. But do you know what doesn't make anyone happy? Restricting options to just one race, when the other one could easily have it as well.

Tentacle hair options for blood elves?

edit: sorry for the formatting issue.