Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varx]

Yeah. That's what I said. Just elves empowered by the void. Blood elves demon hunters are just blood elves empowered by fel.



Oh I think I can :

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Druids_of_the_Flame

Oh look. Night elves empowered by the flame

So forsaken and humans are physically the same race.

So you wouldn't raise an eye brow to a forsaken player who seriously claimed their playing horde humans.

And I'm not talking about technicalities. I mean by wow race standards.

I feel like you ignored most of my post and just cherry picked for your rebuke.

How about you quote my entire post and separate each point with yours.

[elbleuet]

So forsaken and humans are physically the same race.

So you wouldn't raise an eye brow to a forsaken player who seriously claimed their playing horde humans.

And I'm not talking about technicalities. I mean by wow race standards.

Hum yeah. Horde players are playing dead humans, and there are dead elves in their ranks too.

How is it new to you ?

So Horde players claiming they're playing Horde dead humans makes sens.

How about you quote my entire post and separate each point with yours.

No need to quote your entire post since most of it is you basically saying "I can't stand high elves being playable on Alliance side and here's why"

[Varx]

Hum yeah. Horde players are playing dead humans, and there are dead elves in their ranks too.

How is it new to you ?

So Horde players claiming they're playing Horde dead humans makes sens.



No need to quote your entire post since most of it is you basically saying "I can't stand high elves being playable on Alliance side and here's why"

I literally said I was not taking technicalities into account. Obviously forsaken are humans. But not by wow game play and lore standards.

If your gonna ignore most of my posts then why bother responding only to make your self.look a fool to anyone who actually takes the time to read our discussion.

[Varodoc]

Maghar literally means uncorrupted... You know how stupid that would be.

Also, NPCs are able to be unique. When was the last time to saw playable elf forsaken or thin kultirans. Can player priests wear plate like anduin?

Alleria is not even a normal velf, her process was completely different.

Her void form is nothing like any playable velf can do.

"Mag'har" means whatever Blizzard wants it to mean. If Blizzard wants to include a green orc inside the "Mag'har" faction, then that will become Mag'har identity and you will have to accept it.

Just like the Ren'dorei leader Alleria is a VOID ELF who can retain her HIGH ELF form.

And Blizzard agreed with me, that's why these options that should have been here in 2017 already, are finally added to the game

[Varx]

"Mag'har" means whatever Blizzard wants it to mean. If Blizzard wants to include a green orc inside the "Mag'har" faction, then that will become Mag'har identity and you will have to accept it.

Just like the Ren'dorei leader Alleria is a VOID ELF who can retain her HIGH ELF form.

What are you saying, maghar translates to uncorrupted in orcish... Like that's blizzard telling you what it means, lmao.

Alleria is not a velf who can be a helf. She's just a velf that can suppress her void form.

Worgen players aren't playing two races, a worgen is a worgen. Part of the flavor is to revert to humans form but you're still a worgen.

[Varodoc]

What are you saying, maghar translates to uncorrupted in orcish... Like that's blizzard telling you what it means, lmao.

Alleria is not a velf who can be a helf. She's just a velf that can suppress her void form.

Worgen players aren't playing two races, a worgen is a worgen. Part of the flavor is to revert to humans form but you're still a worgen.

1) As I said, "Mag'har" translates to whatever Blizzard wants it to translate to, you DO realize it's NOT a real language, right? And Blizzard is known for retconning lore whenever they want.

2) I didn't say Alleria can be a High elf, I said she can retain her High elf form.

3) Your final point is meaningless to me because I'm not a High elf fan.

[Rhlor]

If the leader of the Mag'har allied race was a Green-skinned orc? For example a Fel-corrupted Geya'rah? Yes, it would be 100% fine to have green-skinned Mag'har orcs.

Lightforged human customization like turalyon

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Last time I checked Blood elves demon hunters turn into demons and some of them have mutated permanantly.

Still blood elves.

It's time to aknowledge the fact that the Alliance can play blood, high and void elves.

Right and you don't see Demon Hunter fans, both Blood Elf and Night Elf players, running around asking for the Demon playable race OR masquerading around as a "demon playable race" outside of Metamorphosis on their Demon Hunter characters.


Nor do you see them making insane stretches to justify their absurd head-canon, claiming "Blizzard gave us playable Demons!" just because you have horn options and can transmogriphy bat wings to your Cloak.


Not to mention that, according to Blizzard themselves, Night Elves and Blood Elves who have become Demon Hunters are still considered... Night Elves and Blood Elves. According to Blizzard, High Elves and Blood Elves who have become Void Elves are considered... Void Elves.


By the way, it's completely fine for you, the player, to play out your fantasy as a High Elf in game... even in role play scenarios. That's not the issue. The issue is incessantly driving that High Elves are playable while simultaneously attempting to discredit/disregard/dis-anything Void Elves as an actual functional, playable race. They are here. They exist. Get over it. It takes away from the largest crime of all that Blizzard committed when it comes to adding them: not allowing playable High Elves in the first place... or so that's what this thread was aimed to point out to begin with.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Right and you don't see Demon Hunter fans, both Blood Elf and Night Elf players, running around asking for the Demon playable race OR masquerading around as a "demon playable race" outside of Metamorphosis on their Demon Hunter characters.


Not to mention that, according to Blizzard, Night Elves and Blood Elves who have become Demon Hunters are still considered... Night Elves and Blood Elves. According to Blizzard, High Elves and Blood Elves who have become Void Elves are considered... Void Elves.


Nor do you see them making insane stretches to justify their absurd head-canon, claiming "Blizzard gave us playable Demons" just because you have horn options.


I can shower in green paint and put in fake fangs from Party City and masquerade as an Orc. But guess what

I think it's pretty disingenuous to deny the distinction of identities for thalassian elves is pretty damn vague and arbitrary. Demon Hunters are as different from Blood Elves as Void Elves are; they are both changed intrinsically by a cosmic energy, Void Elves literally changed their names as an statement -obviously for meta reasons of having a new name- the whole point is that at the end of the day is why elves have different naming, not because of how changed they are.

And it's just wild to try to force Void Elves to fit a single limited aesthetic when the literal OG VE could look like a regular High Elf; the idea that they can look like a high elf goes to the introduction of their concept.

Also, what the hell with the conflation of "You can use the Void Elf model to portray a High Elf identity" and "Void Elves are JUST like High Elves" Those re not the same thing. Void Elves are so BECAUSE they choose to define themselves as, because of their connection to the void, just like thalassian DH's call temselves blood elves, when they could have changed that.

There's just such a big lack of nuance in this discussion.

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Alleria is not even a normal velf, her process was completely different.

Her void form is nothing like any playable velf can do.

You're SO CLOSE with this one.

So elves, exposed to the Void through different manners and with ostensibly different outcomes, can identify as Void Elves. It's almost as if the common denominator to be a VE is not "looking blue" but the usage of Void, and the regard for it as a powerful force.

So the question is, can a High Elf become a Void Elf if they start using the void, like the Wayfarers imply?

The whole "what makes a Void Elf a Void Elf" is already a question since we literally have void elves made in different ways canonically. How will you react if that gets expanded further?

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That's not the same thing. They're mutated because of their class. Velves are mutated for something more innate, which is why they're a different race.

You can't be a demon hunter mage, while a velf can, get it?

Do you really think a Demon Hunter could get rid of the demon inside if they wanted to change class? Why couldn't a Demon Hunter become a Mage lorewise?

It's like you do not understand the difference between an in universe change and an in game classification.

Demon Hunters literally bind themselves to a demon, changing as much as a VE does with the void. DH and DK are both classes that are linked to completelly diffent states, DK races have more in common with forsaken than their own races, they are undead.

Come on man, this is self evident. "They are mutated because of their class, so it's not as innate as VE" is such an asinine argument that forgoes any self consistent logic and lore.

[Varx]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to deny the distinction of identities for thalassian elves is pretty damn vague and arbitrary. Demon Hunters are as different from Blood Elves as Void Elves are; they are both changed intrinsically by a cosmic energy, Void Elves literally changed their names as an statement -obviously for meta reasons of having a new name- the whole point is that at the end of the day is why elves have different naming, not because of how changed they are.

And it's just wild to try to force Void Elves to fit a single limited aesthetic when the literal OG VE could look like a regular High Elf; the idea that they can look like a high elf goes to the introduction of their concept.

Also, what the hell with the conflation of "You can use the Void Elf model to portray a High Elf identity" and "Void Elves are JUST like High Elves" Those re not the same thing. Void Elves are so BECAUSE they choose to define themselves as, because of their connection to the void, just like thalassian DH's call temselves blood elves, when they could have changed that.

There's just such a big lack of nuance in this discussion.

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You're SO CLOSE with this one.

So elves, exposed to the Void through different manners and with ostensibly different outcomes, can identify as Void Elves. It's almost as if the common denominator to be a VE is not "looking blue" but the usage of Void, and the regard for it as a powerful force.

So the question is, can a High Elf become a Void Elf if they start using the void, like the Wayfarers imply?

The whole "what makes a Void Elf a Void Elf" is already a question since we literally have void elves made in different ways canonically. How will you react if that gets expanded further?

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Do you really think a Demon Hunter could get rid of the demon inside if they wanted to change class? Why couldn't a Demon Hunter become a Mage lorewise?

It's like you do not understand the difference between an in universe change and an in game classification.

Demon Hunters literally bind themselves to a demon, changing as much as a VE does with the void. DH and DK are both classes that are linked to completelly diffent states, DK races have more in common with forsaken than their own races, they are undead.

Come on man, this is self evident. "They are mutated because of their class, so it's not as innate as VE" is such an asinine argument that forgoes any self consistent logic and lore.

Look the point in making is that a DH is still a belf since it was a change brought on by a class, not some other outside force, unlike a velf.

If velves get the option to be DHs in the future then we'd get voidy velves with a demonic features.

They wouldn't be 2 sub races simultaneously.

Idk, maybe I'm not explaining my self right.

[Kyriani]

Look the point in making is that a DH is still a belf since it was a change brought on by a class, not some other outside force, unlike a velf.

If velves get the option to be DHs in the future then we'd get voidy velves with a demonic features.

They wouldn't be 2 sub races simultaneously.

Idk, maybe I'm not explaining my self right.

Game Director Ion Haazzikostas says Void Elves are High Elves. Hard to take any arguments that "Void Elves aren't High Elves: serious after that.

[Varx]

Game Director Ion Haazzikostas says Void Elves are High Elves. Hard to take any arguments that "Void Elves aren't High Elves: serious after that.

He didn't say they're helves. He said they have helf customizations.

Again, it's like a paladin running around with dk gear.

You can't two races in one, come on now.

[shoc]

He didn't say they're helves. He said they have helf customizations.

Again, it's like a paladin running around with dk gear.

You can't two races in one, come on now.

High Elf is the race, Void Elf is the affiliation. Blood Elf isn't a race either. That is like saying Dark Irons aren't Dwarves, because they are Dark Iron Dwarves. Makes no sense. Would it be better if the names were changed to Blood High Elves and Void High Elves?

[Rhlor]

if the developers say that the customizations represent that you can play with a high elf then there is nothing more to say

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Look the point in making is that a DH is still a belf since it was a change brought on by a class, not some other outside force, unlike a velf.

If velves get the option to be DHs in the future then we'd get voidy velves with a demonic features.

They wouldn't be 2 sub races simultaneously.

Idk, maybe I'm not explaining my self right.

Or maybe getting infused with a cosmic force DOESN'T MAGICALLY CHANGE YOUR RACE, dear lord.

You're trying to categorize what is an in universe ideological distinction, what is self identity, by gameplay mechanics.

That's what people keep trying to tell you, that "Void Elf" or "Demon Hunter" or "Blood Elf" are ideological, self identity distinctions, not a matter of "how much magic makes you qualify as a new race" because "race" is a gameplay conceit that doesn't always track with in universe distinctions.

Maghar and Orcs are the same exact race except for fel radiation, the biological difference between a Maghar and an Orc is far lesser than a Blood Elf and a BE DH.

Forsaken are Undead Humans. DK's are undead members of every race. They are closer to each other than to their respective races.

Worgen are humans with a curse, they are still humans.

It' should be self evident by this point that "races" don't follow an in universe consistent distinction, and at best, are self denominational. What if the Void Elves didn't change their name after Telogrus? they would have kept calling themselves Blood Elves. The fact that they became "Void Elves" was solely so we could differentiate them more easily on a meta level, and it's baffling how this escapes you.

IN OTHER NEWS



Okay, but Sylvanas flashback armor? That's everything I have ever wanted.

[Mace]

Okay but you keep saying that like in a way that sounds very cope-y to a helfer.

You wanna go into technicalities fine, they are void infused helves. But they are no more regular elves than maghar are corrupted orcs.

They are not traditional high elves and never will be no matter how natural their hair and skin is.

And honestly, imo, velves have no damn identity after SL. They should have stayed voidy only, or at least given the worgen treatment.

Let alleria be unique like other NPCs

What you are saying isn't incorrect of the void elves, however the elf you can play under the void elf selection screen doesn't necessarily have to be a void elf any longer. This is the same across the board.

The dwarf you pick doesn't necessarily have to be the bornzebeard dwarf group that is the race faction you are playing, nor are the trolls you pick necessarily darkspears any longer. You can play a wildhammer or a sand troll now, but selectable under the Bronzebeard dwarf and Darkspear troll race.

Danuser officially came out and said we are opening you options to many other sub-race groups ,but we neither have the resources or time to give you special starting areas etc etc... but it is now canon that you are who you imagine yourself to be so we have given you the physical options in Character creation.

i.e. if your pale haired thalassian void elf is actually a high elf ..that's what it is, racials or no. In fact racials can be altered with a glyph to sell the fantasy further if they want. But you just ignor e it, just like you ignore that wildhammer is being treated like a bronzebeard in the dwarf starting area.


This really has necessitated a need for some name changes or at least a way of identifying sub-groups and sub-races. There was a huge post done on the official boards about re-organising character creation and to have Wildhammers, High elves, Sand Troll sub races as well as sub factions like Highborne on night elves or Farstriders on Blood elves appear in CC as templates players could click on that would bring up examples of this sub-race/group by bringing to the forefront the race specific options customisable options,. they could actually highlight them or even rename them when you click the template to give you a feel you were actually making that group and these are the features that make your dwarf, your void elf or your darkspear troll a wildhammer, high elf or sand troll instead.

This way people become aware of the actual other groups and in time the templates can actually have some short descriptions of the sub race or group and later allowances for them added in the form of NPCs or a quest or something.

[Vaedan]

Look the point in making is that a DH is still a belf since it was a change brought on by a class, not some other outside force, unlike a velf.

If velves get the option to be DHs in the future then we'd get voidy velves with a demonic features.

They wouldn't be 2 sub races simultaneously.

Idk, maybe I'm not explaining my self right.

But DHs are indeed changed by outside force -> combination of Fel and inner demon. If you put them next to Void elves, similarities in their transformation are obvious. The difference is in the source of their transformation and physical changes.

DH being a class and void elves a race are gameplay thing. Lorewise, both groups are elves transformed by a cosmic Force.

[Kyriani]

He didn't say they're helves. He said they have helf customizations.

Again, it's like a paladin running around with dk gear.

You can't two races in one, come on now.

You're wrong.

Here's the quote in it's entirety, complete with video of him actually saying it.

According to game director Ion Hazzikostas:

Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves... Void Elves are also pretty much another flavor of High Elves

https://youtu.be/4BsxB4NJIBs?t=19

If you wanna make up some BS on why he didn't mean what he said, be my guest, but I won't be taking such nonsense seriously, and I see no reason why anyone else should either.

[shoc]

Blizzard just found it fitting to contrast Lightforged Draenei with Void High Elves when adding Allied Races, everything else is just headcanon and speculation.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Okay, but Sylvanas flashback armor? That's everything I have ever wanted.

Living Sylvanas is hot. I am suddenly a pro-High Elf supporter.