1. #25641
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    This is hilarious, since your only argument is your OWN headcanon of how Void Elves should enter on voidform during combat because "identity", despite not really working like that for any known void elf.

    It's really you just trying to enforce your own subjectivity in others.

    For real tho, does this flimsy argument have any substance beyond the pretty evident "but you aren't really a high elf"? Is yourmotivation just that? Because if you really cared for void elf identity, you would have a better argument than forcing voidform during combat.

    So that's the thing, you seem to care less for VE identity and more about denying HE identity, that's why your idea is so crap.
    Yeah and my headcannon preserves the void in void elf. I've said it before introducing normals skins diluted the velf race. I mean look at how NB recently got glowy hands. All ARs are getting new options that highlight what makes them different while velves just got normal options.

    So this is why their identity got diluted. So that's why I know that if it was changed to separate the two skin types to worgen status it'd make both parties happy while keeping in void in void.elf intact.

  2. #25642
    The simplest answer to any questions about the new customization options is to add lore that details how the new recruits are becoming void elves and that this process isn't as traumatic or as transformative as the disrupted ritual trap that Umbric and his followers were originally caught in.

    This explanation can also be supported by the fact that Alleria is considered a void elf, yet retains her usual appearance, and her process of becoming infused with the void was different from Umbric's. If the new recruits are mastering the void in a similar manner to Alleria, then it makes perfect sense for them to retain their usual appearance. And if that process isn't perfect because it cuts corners since dark naaru aren't readily available (not that dark naaru are necessarily required), then that could explain why some new recruits still have blue skin and tentacles.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #25643
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Again you sound more like you want this to happen just to piss off helfers, not out of any genuine concern about void elf lore.

    If dwarves can have wildhammer customization without any catches, then there's no reason why anything has to change for void elves.
    Not true, I just want velves to be velves not "void only when it matches my mog" elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    The simplest answer to any questions about the new customization options is to add lore that details how the new recruits are becoming void elves and that this process isn't as traumatic or as transformative as the disrupted ritual trap that Umbric and his followers were originally caught in.
    But why???? What's the point. Why make a void elf race to then make them look like regular belves.


    That's like play worgen in perma human form or green maghar. You can make we lore you want to justify it but it only hurts it in the end. All for the sake of some helfers sanity.

  4. #25644
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Not true, I just want velves to be velves not "void only when it matches my mog" elves.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But why???? What's the point. Why make a void elf race to then make them look like regular belves.


    That's like play worgen in perma human form or green maghar. You can make we lore you want to justify it but it only hurts it in the end. All for the sake of some helfers sanity.
    What's the point of forcing void elves into a different form while in combat? They already have entropic embrace affecting their appearance in combat at regular intervals. Again, you sound more like you just want to piss off helfers.

    Nothing about my suggestion "hurts" void elves. If anything is expands their lore... something void elves desperately need.

    Velves don't have to be "velves" unless the player chooses for them to be. That's the point of the high elf customization options. You want to remove that choice from the player's purview and rob them of the agency blizzard has given.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:36 PM.

  5. #25645
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    What's the point of forcing void elves into a different form while in combat? They already have entropic embrace affecting their appearance in combat at regular intervals. Again, you sound more like you just want to piss off helfers.

    Nothing about my suggestion "hurts" void elves. If anything is expands their lore... something void elves desperately need.

    Velves don't have to be "velves" unless the player chooses for them to be. That's the point of the high elf customization options. You want to remove that choice from the player's purview and rob them of the agency blizzard has given us.
    Haha what? If you don't wanna be a velf then be a belf, like on horde. You can't be a velf and then not be a velf. Like you said, you have EB, completely obliterating any semblance of being a helf.

    Sure you have EB but worgen don't turn into wolf men for sporadic intervals. That'd be ridiculous. Plus EB is just like a short super power form it shouldn't be the only division between belves and velves.

    That should be their normal idle void form. Again, like worgen. Other wise it's silly to even make the race VOID to start with if they're only gonna be partially void.

  6. #25646
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Haha what? If you don't wanna be a velf then be a belf, like on horde. You can't be a velf and then not be a velf. Like you said, you have EB, completely obliterating any semblance of being a helf.

    Sure you have EB but worgen don't turn into wolf men for sporadic intervals. That'd be ridiculous. Plus EB is just like a short super power form it shouldn't be the only division between belves and velves.

    That should be their normal idle void form. Again, like worgen. Other wise it's silly to even make the race VOID to start with if they're only gonna be partially void.
    Velfs aren't worgen and don't operate under the same rules and circumstances. I like velfs as they currently are and will enjoy them more in 9.1.5. And yes you can be a velf, but not a velf, by virtue of the high elf customization. That's the point of those options.

    Thankfully this is all a pointless conversation because your suggestion will never happen. If dwarves get frostborn customization options, it will be the same thing. They will be plain bronzebeards under the hood, but aesthetically they would appear to be frostborn dwarves (from wotlk).
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #25647
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Velfs aren't worgen and don't operate under the same rules and circumstances. I like velfs as they currently are and will enjoy them more in 9.1.5. And yes you can be a velf, but not a velf, by virtue of the high elf customization. That's the point of those options.

    Thankfully this is all a pointless conversation because your suggestion will never happen. If dwarves get frostborn customization options, it will be the same thing. They will be plain bronzebeards under the hood, but aesthetically they would appear to be frostborn dwarves (from wotlk).
    Since when can vanilla high elves turn into void beasts? I must have missed that in wrath. So no pure options or not a velf is a velf.

    Those options are there to scratch a superficial itch at the expense of diluting the velf race.

  8. #25648
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Since when can vanilla high elves turn into void beasts? I must have missed that in wrath. So no pure options or not a velf is a velf.
    You can keep trying to justify your suggestion but it just comes across as copium to me. My advice? Get over it.

    Void elves got high elf customization options. Blizzard gave alliance players the options to portray their velfs as high elves instead, if they desire to. The options also let players portray their characters as new void elf recruits who are mastering the void through methods similar to Alleria's, or allows players to mix void aesthetics with natural aesthetics to portray their character as something in between.

    The point is, these customization options give players agency. The choice of how a player portrays their character is theirs. You want to remove that choice. Fortunately, that's just not a suggestion that blizzard is going to listen to. Whatever lies ahead for void elves as far as lore and aesthetic options are concerned, I think you need to come to terms with the fact that it's not going to be 100% void themed.

  9. #25649
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    You can keep trying to justify your suggestion but it just comes across as copium to me. My advice? Get over it.

    Void elves got high elf customization options. Blizzard gave alliance players the options to portray their velfs as high elves instead, if they desire to. The options also let players portray their characters as new void elf recruits who are mastering the void through methods similar to Alleria's, or allows players to mix void aesthetics with natural aesthetics to portray their character as something in between.

    The point is, these customization options give players agency. The choice of how a player portrays their character is theirs. You want to remove that choice. Fortunately, that's just not a suggestion that blizzard is going to listen to. Whatever lies ahead for void elves as far as lore and aesthetic options are concerned, I think you need to come to terms with the fact that it's not going to be 100% void themed.
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is. You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity. Other wise we'd have insane things like green skinned maghar.

  10. #25650
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Yeah and my headcannon preserves the void in void elf. I've said it before introducing normals skins diluted the velf race. I mean look at how NB recently got glowy hands. All ARs are getting new options that highlight what makes them different while velves just got normal options.

    So this is why their identity got diluted. So that's why I know that if it was changed to separate the two skin types to worgen status it'd make both parties happy while keeping in void in void.elf intact.
    But then again you utterly fail to consider how forcing VE players to enter a standardized void form during combat may not really be something VE players as a whole want; what's the point of customization and choice if you enter combat and end up the same shade of blue regardless?

    This is why your idea is crap, because it takes choice away from others to fit your own subjectivity. It's so self serving to force other to have less choice because it suits your sensibilities. Why not give void elves more void options? why not allow VE to choose the EE skin tone as default?

    The whole idea of "their identity got diluted" is so selfish; by all you say, other's players choice and immersion is less important that your own. How do you not get that? You define the identity and integrity of the race by your own personal parameters, and that's incredibly self centered.

  11. #25651
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is. You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity. Other wise we'd have insane things like green skinned maghar.
    If a player wants to play Alliance high elf, forcing him to voidform 100% of time kind of take that option away. Your Entropic Embrace argument does not make a sense, because it appears only briefly and it's innactive most of time and players can avoid it with macro.

    The most logical move would be allowing EE activate at will, like Aleria does. In that way, players who wants Void has that tool, while players who does not can ignore the button.

    Also, obviously you're not getting green skined maghar, but you got various clan features to play as blackrock, laughing skull, etc.

  12. #25652
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    But then again you utterly fail to consider how forcing VE players to enter a standardized void form during combat may not really be something VE players as a whole want; what's the point of customization and choice if you enter combat and end up the same shade of blue regardless?

    This is why your idea is crap, because it takes choice away from others to fit your own subjectivity. It's so self serving to force other to have less choice because it suits your sensibilities. Why not give void elves more void options? why not allow VE to choose the EE skin tone as default?

    The whole idea of "their identity got diluted" is so selfish; by all you say, other's players choice and immersion is less important that your own. How do you not get that? You define the identity and integrity of the race by your own personal parameters, and that's incredibly self centered.
    Dude the helfers selfishness is what screwed up the race in the first place. "F the fact that I'm playing a velf, no I want normal options instead of void ones because I want high elves and fook the rest of the alliance players who actually like the velf race."

    Meanwhile all other ARs get options that highlight what makes them different.

    So you're a total hypocrite calling me selfish. At least I want what was given to be made better, not given a shit copy paste and sold as new just because a loud minority is crying for it.

    But wait now you want the same amount of effort to void options too on top of what they got. Like you think velf is the master race or something? Should they have a second heritage set too? You know to match their pure options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    If a player wants to play Alliance high elf, forcing him to voidform 100% of time kind of take that option away. Your Entropic Embrace argument does not make a sense, because it appears only briefly and it's innactive most of time and players can avoid it with macro.

    The most logical move would be allowing EE activate at will, like Aleria does. In that way, players who wants Void has that tool, while players who does not can ignore the button.

    Also, obviously you're not getting green skined maghar, but you got various clan features to play as blackrock, laughing skull, etc.
    Lol so the only way to be a true helf is to gimp your performance nice....

    Also no shit we won't get green maghar since it goes against what being maghar is. I guess the velf devs missed that memo.

  13. #25653
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    My idea doesn't take it away. It lines it up better to what a void elf is.
    That's subjective.

    You already have EB so it wouldn't hurt to have the worgen treatment.
    We already have EB so we don't need "the worgen treatment". Velfs aren't worgen. And "the worgen treatment" would remove player agency.

    Player agency should not trump the race's integrity.
    If you believe that then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

    From Game Director Ion Hazikostas:


    I think we are planning on just broadly incorporating the range of character customization options for NPCs as well as players just across the world. I think in some ways, frankly, it's a bit of a retcon. Like we're not going to change existing named established characters and make them look different. But walking around Stormwind or around other parts of the world, you will see guards and random civilians that have these looks as if they've been there all along.
    letting people express themselves as their avatars with the greatest diversity possible in the game world.
    From Technical director Frank Kowalski:

    The goal is for players to customize their characters the way they want, rather than the outdated and limited character customization World of Warcraft’s offered so far.
    From the Blizzard website:

    With hundreds of new additions with thousands of new combinations, Shadowlands’ new character customization options will help you better create the characters you envision in your mind.
    You fought the good fight, but it's over now. Time to admit defeat and move on. Take a page from Elsa's book and "let it go".
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-30 at 08:36 PM.

  14. #25654
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    That's subjective.



    We already have EB so we don't need "the worgen treatment". Velfs aren't worgen. And "the worgen treatment" would remove player agency.



    If you believe that then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

    From Game Director Ion Hazikostas:






    From Technical director Frank Kowalski:



    From the Blizzard website:



    You fought the good fight, but it's over now. Time to admit defeat and move on. Take a page from Elsa's book and "let it go".
    You conveniently left out the post saying that all new options were also in line with the lore, not just combing through the posts of randoms to see what they want and saying fuck it give it to them.

    So because of alleria it's supported lore wise. Doesn't meant it should have happened since she is a special case and it blurs the line between velf and b/helf just for the sake of some loud fans.

    Plus it was crowd control for belves getting blue eyes. That I'm convinced of. Ffs I've seen helfers threaten their own fucking lives with suicide for the cause, so yeah.

  15. #25655
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Dude the helfers selfishness is what screwed up the race in the first place. "F the fact that I'm playing a velf, no I want normal options instead of void ones because I want high elves and fook the rest of the alliance players who actually like the velf race."

    Meanwhile all other ARs get options that highlight what makes them different.

    So you're a total hypocrite calling me selfish. At least I want what was given to be made better, not given a shit copy paste and sold as new just because a loud minority is crying for it.

    But wait now you want the same amount of effort to void options too on top of what they got. Like you think velf is the master race or something? Should they have a second heritage set too? You know to match their pure options.
    I mean if you don't believe that VE are gonna get void specific options down the line, that's not my problem (come on, think about it, VE haven't gotten any new assets, only reused stuff, no new hairstyles, jewelry) They haven't gotten them yet for a reason.

    To enforce a dichotomy between "you just want HE's" and "give VE more void options" is just silly, one doesn't exclude the other; the fact that all the "high elf" options are reused assets further points to the notion that the new stuff they will get will be Void based/void elf aesthetic.

    Like this is how I know you're not a true VE fan lmao; like even if you'd have a little bit of bias in favor of them you'd understand that all the HE stuff they got is reused, so they really haven't got anything developed FOR them. Would be fair then they didn't get any? No.

    So your whole spiel about restricting HE aesthetic is just that, there's not a moment where I think there's any sincerity in your argument here, I don't think you actually believe restricting the HE aesthetic actually helps the Void Elf identity, because I don't think a person that actually likes void elves wouldn't be pushing for MORE options, Void based ones.

    You're not pro Void Elf, you're anti High Elf, and it's a world of difference.

  16. #25656
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You conveniently left out the post saying that all new options were also in line with the lore, not just combing through the posts of randoms to see what they want and saying fuck it give it to them.

    So because of alleria it's supported lore wise. Doesn't meant it should have happened since she is a special case and it blurs the line between velf and b/helf just for the sake of some loud fans.

    Plus it was crowd control for belves getting blue eyes. That I'm convinced of. Ffs I've seen helfers threaten their own fucking lives with suicide for the cause, so yeah.
    But ultimately it's what the devs decided to go with. Your suggestion would run counter to that decision. Time to let it go and move on. Unless of course you want to try campaigning for your suggestion for the next decade and a half in the hopes of changing their mind. I mean it worked for the helfers right?

  17. #25657
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I mean if you don't believe that VE are gonna get void specific options down the line, that's not my problem (come on, think about it, VE haven't gotten any new assets, only reused stuff, no new hairstyles, jewelry) They haven't gotten them yet for a reason.

    To enforce a dichotomy between "you just want HE's" and "give VE more void options" is just silly, one doesn't exclude the other; the fact that all the "high elf" options are reused assets further points to the notion that the new stuff they will get will be Void based/void elf aesthetic.

    Like this is how I know you're not a true VE fan lmao; like even if you'd have a little bit of bias in favor of them you'd understand that all the HE stuff they got is reused, so they really haven't got anything developed FOR them. Would be fair then they didn't get any? No.

    So your whole spiel about restricting HE aesthetic is just that, there's not a moment where I think there's any sincerity in your argument here, I don't think you actually believe restricting the HE aesthetic actually helps the Void Elf identity, because I don't think a person that actually likes void elves wouldn't be pushing for MORE options, Void based ones.

    You're not pro Void Elf, you're anti High Elf, and it's a world of difference.
    Again, so should velves get a second heritage set too? Cuz apparently they're the ultimate fucking race. They get all the reused options plus potential new voidy ones. Lol, and I'm selfish.

    Think what you want but my intentions are for the betterment of velves. Yours isn't. Yours is just to scratch your helf itch regardless of what happens to velves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    But ultimately it's what the devs decided to go with. Your suggestion would run counter to that decision. Time to let it go and move on. Unless of course you want to try campaigning for your suggestion for the next decade and a half in the hopes of changing their mind. I mean it worked for the helfers right?
    Exactly so yeah. I'll make an Instagram if I have to, lol.

    Actually if belves got sanlyan options or dark ranger then that'd even the scales.
    Last edited by Varx; 2021-09-30 at 08:49 PM.

  18. #25658
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Again, so should velves get a second set too? Cuz apparently they're the ultimate fucking race. They get all the reused options plus potential new voidy ones. Lol, and I'm selfish.
    No, they shouldn't. But I also think all Heritage sets should have recolors.

    And yes, you are selfish, because you'd rather handicap the VE rather than allow them to get reused assets and get some new ones. Maybe what's fair is that VE's don't get new hair nor skin tones, and we get other options? Whatever that might be, the fact you are forcing a dichotomy when it's literally a case of we could have both, really spells you don't care about what's best for VE, you simply want to hinder HE aesthetics, and that's just pathetic.

    Think what you want but my intentions are for the betterment of velves. Yours isn't. Yours is just to scratch your helf itch regardless of what happens to velves.
    I want new void elf options, I don't think we need more "HE stuff", the fantasy is already replicable to a sufficient degree; you're the one that believes further limitation would somehow help them as a race. You don't want to better VE's, you just want to hinder HE's.

  19. #25659
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    No, they shouldn't. But I also think all Heritage sets should have recolors.

    And yes, you are selfish, because you'd rather handicap the VE rather than allow them to get reused assets and get some new ones. Maybe what's fair is that VE's don't get new hair nor skin tones, and we get other options? Whatever that might be, the fact you are forcing a dichotomy when it's literally a case of we could have both, really spells you don't care about what's best for VE, you simply want to hinder HE aesthetics, and that's just pathetic.



    I want new void elf options, I don't think we need more "HE stuff", the fantasy is already replicable to a sufficient degree; you're the one that believes further limitation would somehow help them as a race. You don't want to better VE's, you just want to hinder HE's.
    No shit you don't think you need more helf crap since now you got it all, LMAO. But now you also want more voidy options too. ONE MORE TIME. Are velves the master freaking race of azeroth?

    This is the crux of helfers and why they a laughing stock. More more more. Hell surprised we haven't even discussed velf paladins.

    Let's give them demon hunters too right?
    Last edited by Varx; 2021-09-30 at 09:19 PM.

  20. #25660
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Actually if belves got sanlyan options or dark ranger then that'd even the scales.
    You won't get any arguments from me on this point. I want dark ranger/san'layn options for some of my blood elf characters, and it seems only fair that blood elves get a second theme in the same way void elves now have.

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