Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

But that makes the Undercity of Lordaeron such an interesting place. It used to be owned by the Kingdom of Lordaeron, part of the Alliance of Lordaeron... it was taken over by the Scourge, then captured and ruled by the Forsaken under the banner of the Horde... to be later conquered back by the Alliance, only to be blighted beyond redemption.
Now, it seems to be cleansed by the Horde AND Alliance to be used again by the Forsaken and any other undead that wish to join the Forsaken.

As a member of the Alliance, it's still weird, having helped the Horde get back a capitol that was once part of an Alliance you may or may not have been part of.

[Varodoc]

You still miss the part that claim is applied to the Forsaken faction, who are Horde aligned undead. The moment these Undead leave Forsaken to join other faction (Priest Conclave, Argent Crusade or Alliance), they lose all rights and priviledges tied to the faction they are leaving.

If you want to claim a some lands, you still need a person to rally behind. Alliance Darkfallen have no such person. You know, if you would justify Alliance claims by Turalyon, a War hero who is from Lordaeron and is now Stormwind regent, we can have some discussion. No name Darkfallen elves provide no such opportunity.

Nowhere in Sylvanas' statement is that distinction made between Alliance-aligned undead and Horde-aligned undead. All she said is that the Alliance shouldn't deny the Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron, because they died for that land. That's it. There is no distinction made whatsoever.

As a reminder, Sylvanas initially wanted to join the Alliance. It's not like she sees the Forsaken in the Alliance as some kind of sin or crime. It was opportunity alone that led them in the Horde.

The Forsaken are not defined by their membership in the Horde, but by their past as fallen Lordaeron defenders. That is what gives them a claim to Lordaeron.

Therefore, the Horde should not deny the Alliance Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron.

And as a side note, the ultimate proof of this is that Alonsus Faol, neutral member of the Conclave, is still addressed as a Forsaken in Before the Storm. This is ultimate proof that a "Forsaken" is not defined by membership to the Horde, but by their past as a fallen defender of Lordaeron.

[Vaedan]

Nowhere in Sylvanas' statement is that distinction made between Alliance-aligned undead and Horde-aligned undead. All she said is that the Alliance shouldn't deny the Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron, because they died for that land. That's it. There is no distinction made whatsoever.

As a reminder, Sylvanas initially wanted to join the Alliance. It's not like she sees the Forsaken in the Alliance as some kind of sin or crime. It was opportunity alone that led them in the Horde.

The Forsaken are not defined by their membership in the Horde, but by their past as fallen Lordaeron defenders. That is what gives them a claim to Lordaeron.

Therefore, the Horde should not deny the Alliance Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron.

Forsaken are special group of intelligent undead formerly ruled by Sylvanas, who are part of the Horde. There is no such thing as neutral or Alliance Forsaken. That being said, Forsaken is political organisation.

[delus]

Agree that undead blood elf paladins will be weird, they could lock this customization for them as they did for DHs.

Too late. It already went live.

[Varodoc]

Forsaken are special group of intelligent undead formerly ruled by Sylvanas, who are part of the Horde. There is no such thing as neutral or Alliance Forsaken. That being said, Forsaken is political organisation.

And as a side note, the ultimate proof of this is that Alonsus Faol, neutral member of the Conclave, is still addressed as a Forsaken in Before the Storm. This is ultimate proof that a "Forsaken" is not defined by membership to the Horde, but by their past as a fallen defender of Lordaeron.

Forsaken is not and has never been a "political faction".

Even in WotLK, Putress referred to himself and his followers as "Forsaken", despite the fact that they betrayed Sylvanas to join the Legion.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Forsaken is not and has never been a "political faction".

Even in WotLK, Putress referred to himself and his followers as "Forsaken", despite the fact that they betrayed Sylvanas to join the Legion.

You're now just debating semantics.

Just because you were once in Lordaeron or fought for them, doesn't mean you own the lands. The Forsaken, under Sylvanas conquered the Undercity. They claimed the land when no-one else did.

As I said before, with the help of the Horde and Alliance, it's back in the hands of the Forsaken Horde (and anyone who's undead and wants to join)

[Varodoc]

You're now just debating semantics.

Just because you were once in Lordaeron or fought for them, doesn't mean you own the lands. The Forsaken, under Sylvanas conquered the Undercity. They claimed the land when no-one else did.

As I said before, with the help of the Horde and Alliance, it's back in the hands of the Forsaken Horde (and anyone who's undead and wants to join)

No, I'm telling you what Canon said.

Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken have a right to Lordaeron.

Before the Storm stated that Alonsus Faol, a neutral priest, is a Forsaken.

Therefore, Faol would have rights to Lordaeron. Therefore, the Forsaken who defected to the Ren'dorei in 9.2.5 also have a right to Lordaeron.

Sylvanas never cited right of conquest. She simply said that the Forsaken's right derives from the fact that they founded and built the kingdom.

Everything I have done has been reporting Canonical statements from the source material, quite literally.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

No, I'm telling you what Canon said.

Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken have a right to Lordaeron.

Before the Storm stated that Alonsus Faol, a neutral priest, is a Forsaken.

Therefore, Faol would have rights to Lordaeron. Therefore, the Forsaken who defected to the Ren'dorei in 9.2.5 also have a right to Lordaeron.

Sylvanas never cited right of conquest. She simply said that the Forsaken's right derives from the fact that they founded and built the kingdom.

Everything I have done has been reporting Canonical statements from the source material, quite literally.

But then again.. what will all those non-Horde Forsaken do about it?

Not a whole lot I'm affraid, given how Blizzard made it so we (as Alliance members) give the city back to the Forsaken (who are mostly Horde)

[Vaedan]

No, I'm telling you what Canon said.

Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken have a right to Lordaeron.

Before the Storm stated that Alonsus Faol, a neutral priest, is a Forsaken.

Therefore, Faol would have rights to Lordaeron. Therefore, the Forsaken who defected to the Ren'dorei in 9.2.5 also have a right to Lordaeron.

Sylvanas never cited right of conquest. She simply said that the Forsaken's right derives from the fact that they founded and built the kingdom.

Everything I have done has been reporting Canonical statements from the source material, quite literally.

I guess Forsaken can actually mean two separate things.

First of all, intelligent undead who broke free of Scourge with help of Sylvanas Windrunner.

Second, a nation formed by those undead who occupy ruins of Lordaeron, which they took from Scourge.

Originaly, these two Forsaken were the same. Over time, some individuals left Forsaken organisation (a nation) in favor of other faction, but they are still free-willed Undead. Sylvanas allowed them to leave, but they lost all influence they had within Forsaken society. Alonsus Faol have no power within Forsaken (as a nation). His political power is within Conclave, which is Priest organisation, which he identified with.

To use your argument, Sylvanas didn't specity she meant Forsaken as species of intelligent undead, So that right can't be applied to all Undead who are being labeled Forsaken.

But these are just details which does not matter eventually. Lordaeron is Horde territory and has been for years. Horde gained it through Sylvanas, who took it from Scourge control. That's the important part. Sylvanas saying regarding that Forsaken have claims to the land because they died for it just express sentiment which have no legal value.

[Varodoc]

But then again.. what will all those non-Horde Forsaken do about it?

Not a whole lot I'm affraid, given how Blizzard made it so we (as Alliance members) give the city back to the Forsaken (who are mostly Horde)

It doesn't need to come to war. It's not unreasonable for Calia to provide refuge to all those who just want to go back to their home. This was the original purpose of the Forsaken, No? To offer a refuge to all those who were still in Lordaeron and freed themselves from the Scourge. Before the original purpose was twisted by Sylvanas and the Janitor into genocide of the living.

But now those two villains are gone, so there's no reason why Lordaeron can't stand as a new beacon of unity, just as Dalaran once did, before the Purge.

[Alanar]

What claim are you mentioning? These Darkfallen are just soldiers, there is no important person among them, who could have any legitimate claim on these lands. Let's say, if they brought back Anasterian back as Darkfallen, then your argument might have some relevance, but saying that no name undead rangers have claim on Quel'thalas is quite stretched.

Night elf Darkfallen are at least officialy recognized as group by Velonara. Same can't be said for Void elf Darkfallen.

The horde even gained Daleryn Summermoon which is a named night elf dark ranger. She is in the Lorderean keep and I think she found her home according to the text. Night elves were part of that storyline and were seen with the rest at the end of the first questline, were they were introduced to Calia. It's even possible Sira will return as she is in the stockades still and will choose to leave for the Forsaken, it is speculation, but there is a very big motivation for her to go to Dalyren also the other undead.

The story is just not about Void elves, they are just there, because they can't leave them out after high elves, a lot of dark ranger are still from the high elf time. There are no further mentions of void elves specifically and I am not even sure if we saw them getting risen as we did with night and blood elves. This is not about them and nor should be, it would be completely out of the blue if Alleria or what ever void elf starts to lay claim with the forsaken and Lorderean. Sure there could be peacefull meetings between the races, but the place is very clear the home of the forsaken. But hey void elves came out of the blue, so they could asspull them again and claim because a windrunner should rule or or what ever and it should be for them;p I am obviously kidding.. right?

[Tanaria]

The horde even gained Daleryn Summermoon which is a named night elf dark ranger. She is in the Lorderean keep and I think she found her home according to the text. Night elves were part of that storyline and were seen with the rest at the end of the first questline, were they were introduced to Calia.

Void elves are just there, because they can't leave them out after high elves, a lot of dark ranger are still from the high elf time,that's the only reason lets be fair.
There are no further mentions of void elves specifically and I am not even sure if we saw them getting risen as we did with night and blood elves.

We didn't see any void elves get raised into the "dark ranger" thing. The only risen void elves are those who fell during the Fourth War and brought back as Void Elf Death Knights, which are just the same as Nightborne Death Knights (whom are also now part of the Darkfallen clique, but you won't hear us trying to make them bigger than what they are because they are just there and have no relevance to the lore.) I picture that the only Dark Ranger lore, moving forward will be told from the Horde perspective, in the main with Velonara and Delaryn leading that front.
They might have Sira be the voice for the kaldorei dark ranger presence on the Alliance.

velf dark rangers are just nobodies. @Varodoc needs to just accept that. He is completely wrong (as usual), regarding the night elven darkfallen being irrelevant, when they have characters and have story. I'm sorry, but velfs are nobodies in this case.

[Alanar]

We didn't see any void elves get raised into the "dark ranger" thing. The only risen void elves are those who fell during the Fourth War and brought back as Void Elf Death Knights, which are just the same as Nightborne Death Knights (whom are also now part of the Darkfallen clique, but you won't hear us trying to make them bigger than what they are because they are just there and have no relevance to the lore.) I picture that the only Dark Ranger lore, moving forward will be told from the Horde perspective, in the main with Velonara and Delaryn leading that front.
They might have Sira be the voice for the kaldorei dark ranger presence on the Alliance.

velf dark rangers are just nobodies.

Yes, I though so.

True and to be fair I said the high elf time, but I meant this as going as far back as saying; Void elves, who once were high elves became void elves without being blood elf, i know it's still possible, the elves who went for dalaran and the silver covenant, the handfull of actual high elves from that time and died and were risen, that or the death knight, but since death knight are not even part of it as they can't even use this costumization option, it becomes even more difficult. We have no further knowledge of actual void elves being pressent AND risen at the only time these new dark rangers were risen with both (Blood and NIGHT elves) it's hard to place them, it's also very hard to go in Varadoc headcanon, because there is just not much to go from. This story was just not about them, simple.

[Tanaria]

Yes, I though so.

True and to be fair I said the high elf time, this is going as far back as saying; Void elves, who once were high elves became void elves (without being blood elf, i know it's still possible, the elves who went for dalaran and the silver covenant, the handfull of actual high elves) from that time and died and were risen. But since we have no knowledge of actual void elves were pressent AND risen at the only time these new dark rangers were risen (Blood and NIGHT elves) it's hard to place them, it's also very hard to go in Varadoc headcanon, because there is just not much to go from. This story was just not about them, simple.

This is like trying to make a case for Lightforged Draenei Death Knights because they can be played in-game.
At the end of the day - no, they aren't the next big "Death Knight" thing. They have nothing going for them. That just has to be accepted.

Hell, I play a Nightborne Priest. Tell me, where are the Nightborne Priests in the lore and tell me a confirmed and current Nightborne Priest lore character. You'll be hard pressed to find one. Even if Nightborne were also given the red eyes, the same argument against them still applies in the same exact same way it does for velfs. The only small difference is Nightborne are on the Horde, where the main bulk of Dark Rangers are. (Both Blood/High Elven and Night Elven.)

[Alanar]

This is like trying to make a case for Lightforged Draenei Death Knights because they can be played in-game.
At the end of the day - no, they aren't the next big "Death Knight" thing. They have nothing going for them. That just has to be accepted.

Hell, I play a Nightborne Priest. Tell me, where are the Nightborne Priests in the lore and tell me a confirmed and current Nightborne Priest lore character. You'll be hard pressed to find one. Even if Nightborne were also given the red eyes, the same argument against them still applies in the same exact same way it does for velfs. The only small difference is Nightborne are on the Horde, where the main bulk of Dark Rangers are. (Both Blood/High Elven and Night Elven.)

Sorry, edited my post, but ye my point was that there is just no void elf story here and this also shouldn't be about them. There is no claim and no reason for it either.
Nightborne altho I like them, would also have absolutely no reason to be visible here unless we had a story there, I am not pushing my agenda here, because I want red eyes. No thank you. It is case of lf death knight and we just have to accept it. it's gameplay/lore here I guess, which is expected and a very blizz way.

[Villager720]

You're now just debating semantics.

Just because you were once in Lordaeron or fought for them, doesn't mean you own the lands. The Forsaken, under Sylvanas conquered the Undercity. They claimed the land when no-one else did.

As I said before, with the help of the Horde and Alliance, it's back in the hands of the Forsaken Horde (and anyone who's undead and wants to join)

Oh shit! My forsaken warlock fought for Pandaria. Do I have claim to the Vale of Eternal Blossoms? Suck it Golden Lotus! You too druids of Val'sharah! Ditto for that time I defended the Exodar against the Legion!
OT : Don't bother arguing with Varodoc - they just RP as a void elf zealot, not as a rational person.

[Tanaria]

Sorry, edited my post, but ye my point was that there is just no void elf story here and this also shouldn't be about them. There is no claim and no reason for it either.
Nightborne altho I like them, would also have absolutely no reason to be visible here unless we had a story there, I am not pushing my agenda here, because I want red eyes. No thank you. It is case of lf death knight and we just have to accept it. it's gameplay/lore here I guess, which is expected and a very blizz way.

But to be fair to Blizzard, they don't have the time to give attention to every single race/class combo. Ever since the start, they have selected areas where they push the narrative of those races and that's always been the case.

So for Blood Elves, it's the Farstriders, Magisters and Blood Knights.
For Night Elves, it's the Sentinels, Priesthood and Druids
For Humans, it's the Paladins, Rogues and Mages.

I'm not saying that Blood Elf Warlocks, Night Elf Mages and Human Hunters don't exist, but they clearly aren't Blizzard's areas for developing the races.

Indeed - if the rumors are true that all race/class combos will be playable then fine, but people shouldn't expect large chunks of lore to be given to every race and every class. I mean, I remember Ravenmoon made a big deal of night elf warlocks and how they should be the only ones starting with green fire and they're "Illidari Warlocks" whilst Blood Elves are "Fel Elf Warlocks" (it wasn't making much sense to be honest), but no...Blizzard don't have time to go into that level of detail.
I'd rather they stick to the core areas and we get really juicy parts of those core sectors. I get excited when I see Night Elven Druids in the lore - I loved the female night elf druid from the Classic WoW cinematic.

[Rhlor]

No, Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken had a claim on Lordaeron by virtue of being its original defenders, who died protecting that land.

Void elf Darkfallen are Forsaken, thus according to Sylvanas they have the same claim to Lordaeron as the Horde Forsaken.

It's all pretty straightforward really.

- - - Updated - - -



Aside from the fact that many elves lived and died in Lordaeron, since Anasterian sent formal aid to Lordaeron and there were certainly many elves living in other countries, so you can easily roleplay the dark ranger as an elf who lived and died in Lordaeron; Sylvanas did not exclude the Dark Rangers when she said that the Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron. Thus, all Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron, not just Undead Humans. And thereby, all Dark Rangers have a claim to Lordaeron, just like Undead humans.

Forsaken is a faction not a race. the race in any case would be undead/darkfallen.
if you are loyal to the government of lordaeron in this case the desolate council then you are a forsaken if you are loyal to another faction you are only an undead loyal to that faction an undead void elf in this case

[Vaedan]

The horde even gained Daleryn Summermoon which is a named night elf dark ranger. She is in the Lorderean keep and I think she found her home according to the text. Night elves were part of that storyline and were seen with the rest at the end of the first questline, were they were introduced to Calia. It's even possible Sira will return as she is in the stockades still and will choose to leave for the Forsaken, it is speculation, but there is a very big motivation for her to go to Dalyren also the other undead.

The story is just not about Void elves, they are just there, because they can't leave them out after high elves, a lot of dark ranger are still from the high elf time. There are no further mentions of void elves specifically and I am not even sure if we saw them getting risen as we did with night and blood elves. This is not about them and nor should be, it would be completely out of the blue if Alleria or what ever void elf starts to lay claim with the forsaken and Lorderean. Sure there could be peacefull meetings between the races, but the place is very clear the home of the forsaken. But hey void elves came out of the blue, so they could asspull them again and claim because a windrunner should rule or or what ever and it should be for them;p I am obviously kidding.. right?

I think Alliance Darkfallen will probably get some representation too, but mostly through night elves, who have been recognized and lore says that they are allowed to come back. With Tyrande chosing renewal for her people, I think they she might be willing to accept them back. Unfortunately, Delaryn would be the best candidate to represent kaldorei darkfallen, but I must agree that it seems more likely she will stay with the Horde. You know, the reason they stay with the Horde is the feeling they were abandoned by their leader and their Goddess. With Tyrande returning from Shadowlands with the new seed as a symbol of hope, they might change their mind. I can certainly imagine that.

As for void elf darkfallen, I don't really expect much of them. So far, there is no single NPC to represent the group, they lack any explanation what they could be, so I assume they are included just for player RP agency (in a same way Darkspears have sand troll customizations and yet no sand troll tribe officialy joined the Horde).

We didn't see any void elves get raised into the "dark ranger" thing. The only risen void elves are those who fell during the Fourth War and brought back as Void Elf Death Knights, which are just the same as Nightborne Death Knights (whom are also now part of the Darkfallen clique, but you won't hear us trying to make them bigger than what they are because they are just there and have no relevance to the lore.) I picture that the only Dark Ranger lore, moving forward will be told from the Horde perspective, in the main with Velonara and Delaryn leading that front.
They might have Sira be the voice for the kaldorei dark ranger presence on the Alliance.

velf dark rangers are just nobodies. @Varodoc needs to just accept that. He is completely wrong (as usual), regarding the night elven darkfallen being irrelevant, when they have characters and have story. I'm sorry, but velfs are nobodies in this case.

I agree. Dark ranger archetype is not really a thing, and does not need to be. Void elves have their own potential, there is no need to further overlap them with blood elves. I don't actually mind these customizations, but they were not really necessary and honestly, I'd prefer something unique for void elves, but here we are.

BTW I changed my blood elf warlock to a darkfallen and she looks great

[Tanaria]

I think Alliance Darkfallen will probably get some representation too, but mostly through night elves, who have been recognized and lore says that they are allowed to come back. With Tyrande chosing renewal for her people, I think they she might be willing to accept them back. Unfortunately, Delaryn would be the best candidate to represent kaldorei darkfallen, but I must agree that it seems more likely she will stay with the Horde. You know, the reason they stay with the Horde is the feeling they were abandoned by their leader and their Goddess. With Tyrande returning from Shadowlands with the new seed as a symbol of hope, they might change their mind. I can certainly imagine that.

As for void elf darkfallen, I don't really expect much of them. So far, there is no single NPC to represent the group, they lack any explanation what they could be, so I assume they are included just for player RP agency (in a same way Darkspears have sand troll customizations and yet no sand troll tribe officialy joined the Horde).

Sira Moonwarden is the only candidate who can vouch for the kaldorei dark rangers as she is still in Stormwind Stockades, as far as the canon goes.

Void Elf Darkfallen are like Nightborne Darkfallen. They aren't part of the integral story that makes up Void Elves and Nightborne. (Nightborne Death Knights that is.)