Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Rhlor]

alonsus in lordaeron alongside the forsakens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slsxZXIAJdw
min 2:26

[Varodoc]

alonsus in lordaeron alongside the forsakens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slsxZXIAJdw
min 2:26

Irrelevant, he was called Forsaken in Before the Storm, when he was still neutral.

[Alanar]

If Vaeden, a researched void elf fan, says their is nothing to these features than just cosmetic, for Void Elves, then I will take his word.

You and I, both Nightborne fans would say the same thing about Nightborne Darkfallen (yes, I will say that because not even Nightborne nor Void Elf Death Knights are integral to the story.)

I agree, Il take hes word, but yours as well with Blood elves, Vaeden has proven in many discussions with me, even when I was against him. I know a fair bit of blood elves as they were always my top one, since warcraft3, but it's impossible to remember every single conversation or npc line or area when that fight happened to be exact. So I lack there as I don't care much for the books much.

I think we are on the same line, that we don't want to push our agenda, just because. It should make sense for me, ofc I would like more things, but the example of the Nightborne is good enough. We are fans, but we can still say.. nah they should not be part of this or they weren't there so how would that story be. Which Varadoc lacks as he jumps on every opportunity he gets to spread hes cult like tongue.

[Rhlor]

Irrelevant, he was called Forsaken in Before the Storm, when he was still neutral.

Do you want to discuss details? okay

Do you know where Alonsus lived all these years to legion? In Forsken Territory !!

Some could say that perhaps Sylvanas knew that a civilian named Alonsus a Undead lived in his peaceful in her territory for years.

or an error like when Golden said that Genn had a tail to say on Twitter that she is wrong and that Genn has no tail

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It doesn't need to come to war. It's not unreasonable for Calia to provide refuge to all those who just want to go back to their home. This was the original purpose of the Forsaken, No? To offer a refuge to all those who were still in Lordaeron and freed themselves from the Scourge. Before the original purpose was twisted by Sylvanas and the Janitor into genocide of the living.

But now those two villains are gone, so there's no reason why Lordaeron can't stand as a new beacon of unity, just as Dalaran once did, before the Purge.

Lordaeron is home to any Undead who wants to live there and as a member of the Forsken/Horde. If you instead want to be a member of the alliance you can go and go to live with the alliance that is what Velonora tells us

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this is why Blizzard should implement Nightborne Darkfallen or remove Void Elf Darkfallen !!!

Felborne !! Felborne exist in Lore!

[Ardenaso]

Weren't most of them Mages and Arcanists though?

I mean, we can obviously have Darkfallen Magi, but Dark Rangers were meant to be some sort of Elf Ranger or Elf Sentinel in life.

well yeah that's the closest thing I can think of

maybe perhaps it's not just fellow Farstriders that Sylvanas would have raised but perhaps some of them Priests, Sorceress, Dragonhawk Riders, etc. and just got in the Dark Ranger umbrella faction

[Varodoc]

Do you want to discuss details? okay

It's not a technicality my bro.

It's literally the whole point.

To claim that a Forsaken must be a member of the Horde would be to ignore Alonsus Faol's previous status in BfA.

Do you know where Alonsus lived all these years to legion?

Was he not roaming Tirisfal Glades and the Plaguelands? Those territories were contested between the Forsaken, Scourge, Crusade, and Argent Dawn, so there's really no proof he lived in Forsaken territories, or exclusively there.

Didn't he first appear in a graveyard near the Scarlet monastery? That's not Forsaken territory.

In Legion, he lived in the Naaru temple.

Lordaeron is home to any Undead who wants to live there and as a member of the Forsken/Horde. If you instead want to be a member of the alliance you can go and go to live with the alliance that is what Velonora tells us

Can you link the dialogue?

[elbleuet]

So now the forsaken are led by Calia Menethil who was raised back by an Alliance character, has more friends in the Alliance than she does in the Horde and who's literally transforming the forsakens into dead humans infused with the light.

Poor forsaken fans.

[Varodoc]

So now the forsaken are led by Calia Menethil who was raised back by an Alliance character, has more friends in the Alliance than she does in the Horde and who's literally transforming the forsakens into dead humans infused with the light.

Poor forsaken fans.

Correction.

Now the Forsaken are led by a free council of leaders, chiefly amongst them Calia and Voss, who have promoted peace, unity, and harmony. The Forsaken will no longer be led by a psychopathic dictator, who turned them against the living, tried to erase their memories of the past, and forced them to set up a toxic cult of personality around herself.

I envy Forsaken fans, truly, I do. If only we Alliance players got only a small fraction of the care and attention Forsaken fans got. Their race has objectively improved in BfA and Shadowlands, finally replacing a toxic evil dictator with a council of good people.

[Rhlor]

It's not a technicality my bro.

It's literally the whole point.

To claim that a Forsaken must be a member of the Horde would be to ignore Alonsus Faol's previous status in BfA.



Was he not roaming Tirisfal Glades and the Plaguelands? Those territories were contested between the Forsaken, Scourge, Crusade, and Argent Dawn, so there's really no proof he lived in Forsaken territories, or exclusively there.

Didn't he first appear in a graveyard near the Scarlet monastery? That's not Forsaken territory.

In Legion, he lived in the Naaru temple.



Can you link the dialogue?

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185851/dark-ranger-velonara

[Ardenaso]

I envy Forsaken fans, truly, I do. If only we Alliance players got only a small fraction of the care and attention Forsaken fans got. Their race has objectively improved in BfA and Shadowlands, finally replacing a toxic evil dictator with a council of good people.

as much as I dread the Forsaken's identity I don't think the Forsaken players would like it

the entire point of the Forsaken is to be the evil outliers of the Horde who do evil stuff; not everyone is like Leonid or Judkins who are the outliers of the outliers of the Horde

[Varodoc]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185851/dark-ranger-velonara

And where is she saying that Lordaeron is the home only of the Horde undead?

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as much as I dread the Forsaken's identity I don't think the Forsaken players would like it

the entire point of the Forsaken is to be the evil outliers of the Horde who do evil stuff; not everyone is like Leonid or Judkins who are the outliers of the outliers of the Horde

Forsaken =/= Scourge

The Forsaken were always about subverting expectations. People look at zombies and see bad guys. The Forsaken were meant to subvert that.

If "Forsaken fans" wanted the Forsaken to be evil conquerors who nuke cities, they were never Forsaken fans. They were Scourge fans.

[Tanaria]

well yeah that's the closest thing I can think of

maybe perhaps it's not just fellow Farstriders that Sylvanas would have raised but perhaps some of them Priests, Sorceress, Dragonhawk Riders, etc. and just got in the Dark Ranger umbrella faction

The issue with that is Blizzard has created an identity for those fallen Thalassian Magi Elves where they can still be Darkfallen Mages and not just be converted into Dark Rangers.

It would be the same if Shen'dralar Mages were raised into undeath. It would be unlikely that they would become Dark Rangers like Delaryn or Velonara - rather they would be Darkfallen Magi. If Sylvanas' Val'kyr were successful in raising all of those night elves at Delaryn's Demise, then most would have been Dark Rangers as they were former Sentinels; however two of them, Sarvonis and Ralara were Highborne Night Elf Mages who were almost raised. It is unclear what they would have become but as they were part of the Highborne caste, I'd put bigger bets on them being Darkfallen Mages, than actual Dark Rangers.

[Vaedan]

The issue with that is Blizzard has created an identity for those fallen Thalassian Magi Elves where they can still be Darkfallen Mages and not just be converted into Dark Rangers.

It would be the same if Shen'dralar Mages were raised into undeath. It would be unlikely that they would become Dark Rangers like Delaryn or Velonara - rather they would be Darkfallen Magi. If Sylvanas' Val'kyr were successful in raising all of those night elves at Delaryn's Demise, then most would have been Dark Rangers as they were former Sentinels; however two of them, Sarvonis and Ralara were Highborne Night Elf Mages who were almost raised. It is unclear what they would have become but as they were part of the Highborne caste, I'd put bigger bets on them being Darkfallen Mages, than actual Dark Rangers.

I think it's most logical they would become Darkfallen Mages. It does not make really sense that they would become Dark Rangers after they dedicated their lives to arcane.

TBH, I think they should name it Darkfallen customization and not Dark Ranger customizations, because it's it's open to all classes and not just hunters/rogues.

[Tanaria]

I think it's most logical they would become Darkfallen Mages. It does not make really sense that they would become Dark Rangers after they dedicated their lives to arcane.

TBH, I think they should name it Darkfallen customization and not Dark Ranger customizations, because it's it's open to all classes and not just hunters/rogues.

I agree. The general term is "Darkfallen." Blizzard have made that canon that all undead elves are "Darkfallen" so that is what they should be called.

Some areas might be a bit odd like Undead Blood Elf Paladins or Undead Night Elf Druids, but in the main - these features do work. Personally, I'd have rather Blizzard added the Death Knight skin tones to Night Elves and Blood Elves (for the red eyes) and left Void Elves and Nightborne out of it. It doesn't take Colombo to realise that the two allied elves aren't being forgotten within the "Darkfallen" title as the Death Knight class has got them covered.

[Rhlor]

And where is she saying that Lordaeron is the home only of the Horde undead?

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Forsaken =/= Scourge

The Forsaken were always about subverting expectations. People look at zombies and see bad guys. The Forsaken were meant to subvert that.

If "Forsaken fans" wanted the Forsaken to be evil conquerors who nuke cities, they were never Forsaken fans. They were Scourge fans.

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

the only thing I can think of rationalizing Void Elf Darkfallen is when some Void Elves died like on that suicide rush in Nazmir and got resurrected by the Val'kyr and then sought refuge and custody with Thassarian and the Alliance Death Knights

I think somewhere around here it's the best explanation: IMO I think the Val'kyr continued raising any fallen Alliance Elves they could get their hands on (specially in Darkshore and Nazmir) into Darkfallen and sent them to the Dark Rangers, despite perhaps not always been Sentinels/Rangers.

Like we know more than just Sentinels died at Darkshore, so it's likely that even if they were the majority of the risen, other "classes" were also risen, but not represented in game. We see a BE rogue, Lorash, being risen willingly, so we know the power isn't limited to the Hunter class heh, but it does seem to be limited to elves.

So my Headcanon is that the VE Dark Rangers are in their majority VE's that died during the War of Thorns and even well into the Darkshore Warfront, with the Nazmir massacre being another prime situation where they could have been risen.

[Varodoc]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

My dude, she literally says the opposite.

You would be right if she said "But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance MUST do so"

Here she is literally saying that, if you want to depart and rejoin the Alliance, aka you support the Alliance, you are *FREE* to do so, but are in no way obliged, since that's what "free" means. She is literally saying that the Alliance supporters can freely leave if they want to, but are not forced to do so and can just keep hanging around in Lordaeron.

Compare "Any student who dislikes my classes is FREE to leave them" to "Any student who dislikes my classes MUST leave them", see the difference?

[Schwert]

The term "Darkfallen" only came into common use with the release of the new book. It showed up in ICC, but wasn't anything focal and people just used San'layn more than Darkfallen because it was brought up more.
The community as a whole, including more casuals - only the more hardcore fans even know of the actual term - knows what a Dark Ranger is. It is just easier to call it a "Dark Ranger" skin than a "Darkfallen" skin because your average player just recognizes it instantly.


People are nitpicking over the term when it doesn't actually matter all that much.

[Kyriani]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

The actual in game text says:

There are those among the kaldorei raised by Sylvanas' val'kyr who wish to return to their own. If Tyrande would have them back, they are free to go. The rest will be welcome in the ranks of the dark rangers.

Just figured I'd add this for clarification. Velonara does not specifically say "many" or give any indication as to the number of kal'dorei that wish to return to the Alliance or remain with the forsaken.

[Rhlor]

My dude, she literally says the opposite.

You would be right if she said "But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance MUST do so"

Here she is literally saying that, if you want to depart and rejoin the Alliance, aka you support the Alliance, you are *FREE* to do so, but are in no way obliged, since that's what "free" means. She is literally saying that the Alliance supporters can freely leave if they want to, but are not forced to do so and can just keep hanging around in Lordaeron.

Compare "Any student who dislikes my classes is FREE to leave them" to "Any student who dislikes my classes MUST leave them", see the difference?

are you saying that someone loyal to the alliance will stay to live in the horde's territory and people like commander belmont wouldn't tell them to get out of here? the fear of an attack by the alliance is still present those who leave join the alliance again those who stay are part of the horde it is not difficult to understand