Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

So now the forsaken are led by Calia Menethil who was raised back by an Alliance character, has more friends in the Alliance than she does in the Horde and who's literally transforming the forsakens into dead humans infused with the light.

Poor forsaken fans.

[Varodoc]

So now the forsaken are led by Calia Menethil who was raised back by an Alliance character, has more friends in the Alliance than she does in the Horde and who's literally transforming the forsakens into dead humans infused with the light.

Poor forsaken fans.

Correction.

Now the Forsaken are led by a free council of leaders, chiefly amongst them Calia and Voss, who have promoted peace, unity, and harmony. The Forsaken will no longer be led by a psychopathic dictator, who turned them against the living, tried to erase their memories of the past, and forced them to set up a toxic cult of personality around herself.

I envy Forsaken fans, truly, I do. If only we Alliance players got only a small fraction of the care and attention Forsaken fans got. Their race has objectively improved in BfA and Shadowlands, finally replacing a toxic evil dictator with a council of good people.

[Rhlor]

It's not a technicality my bro.

It's literally the whole point.

To claim that a Forsaken must be a member of the Horde would be to ignore Alonsus Faol's previous status in BfA.



Was he not roaming Tirisfal Glades and the Plaguelands? Those territories were contested between the Forsaken, Scourge, Crusade, and Argent Dawn, so there's really no proof he lived in Forsaken territories, or exclusively there.

Didn't he first appear in a graveyard near the Scarlet monastery? That's not Forsaken territory.

In Legion, he lived in the Naaru temple.



Can you link the dialogue?

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185851/dark-ranger-velonara

[Ardenaso]

I envy Forsaken fans, truly, I do. If only we Alliance players got only a small fraction of the care and attention Forsaken fans got. Their race has objectively improved in BfA and Shadowlands, finally replacing a toxic evil dictator with a council of good people.

as much as I dread the Forsaken's identity I don't think the Forsaken players would like it

the entire point of the Forsaken is to be the evil outliers of the Horde who do evil stuff; not everyone is like Leonid or Judkins who are the outliers of the outliers of the Horde

[Varodoc]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185851/dark-ranger-velonara

And where is she saying that Lordaeron is the home only of the Horde undead?

- - - Updated - - -

as much as I dread the Forsaken's identity I don't think the Forsaken players would like it

the entire point of the Forsaken is to be the evil outliers of the Horde who do evil stuff; not everyone is like Leonid or Judkins who are the outliers of the outliers of the Horde

Forsaken =/= Scourge

The Forsaken were always about subverting expectations. People look at zombies and see bad guys. The Forsaken were meant to subvert that.

If "Forsaken fans" wanted the Forsaken to be evil conquerors who nuke cities, they were never Forsaken fans. They were Scourge fans.

[Tanaria]

well yeah that's the closest thing I can think of

maybe perhaps it's not just fellow Farstriders that Sylvanas would have raised but perhaps some of them Priests, Sorceress, Dragonhawk Riders, etc. and just got in the Dark Ranger umbrella faction

The issue with that is Blizzard has created an identity for those fallen Thalassian Magi Elves where they can still be Darkfallen Mages and not just be converted into Dark Rangers.

It would be the same if Shen'dralar Mages were raised into undeath. It would be unlikely that they would become Dark Rangers like Delaryn or Velonara - rather they would be Darkfallen Magi. If Sylvanas' Val'kyr were successful in raising all of those night elves at Delaryn's Demise, then most would have been Dark Rangers as they were former Sentinels; however two of them, Sarvonis and Ralara were Highborne Night Elf Mages who were almost raised. It is unclear what they would have become but as they were part of the Highborne caste, I'd put bigger bets on them being Darkfallen Mages, than actual Dark Rangers.

[Vaedan]

The issue with that is Blizzard has created an identity for those fallen Thalassian Magi Elves where they can still be Darkfallen Mages and not just be converted into Dark Rangers.

It would be the same if Shen'dralar Mages were raised into undeath. It would be unlikely that they would become Dark Rangers like Delaryn or Velonara - rather they would be Darkfallen Magi. If Sylvanas' Val'kyr were successful in raising all of those night elves at Delaryn's Demise, then most would have been Dark Rangers as they were former Sentinels; however two of them, Sarvonis and Ralara were Highborne Night Elf Mages who were almost raised. It is unclear what they would have become but as they were part of the Highborne caste, I'd put bigger bets on them being Darkfallen Mages, than actual Dark Rangers.

I think it's most logical they would become Darkfallen Mages. It does not make really sense that they would become Dark Rangers after they dedicated their lives to arcane.

TBH, I think they should name it Darkfallen customization and not Dark Ranger customizations, because it's it's open to all classes and not just hunters/rogues.

[Tanaria]

I think it's most logical they would become Darkfallen Mages. It does not make really sense that they would become Dark Rangers after they dedicated their lives to arcane.

TBH, I think they should name it Darkfallen customization and not Dark Ranger customizations, because it's it's open to all classes and not just hunters/rogues.

I agree. The general term is "Darkfallen." Blizzard have made that canon that all undead elves are "Darkfallen" so that is what they should be called.

Some areas might be a bit odd like Undead Blood Elf Paladins or Undead Night Elf Druids, but in the main - these features do work. Personally, I'd have rather Blizzard added the Death Knight skin tones to Night Elves and Blood Elves (for the red eyes) and left Void Elves and Nightborne out of it. It doesn't take Colombo to realise that the two allied elves aren't being forgotten within the "Darkfallen" title as the Death Knight class has got them covered.

[Rhlor]

And where is she saying that Lordaeron is the home only of the Horde undead?

- - - Updated - - -



Forsaken =/= Scourge

The Forsaken were always about subverting expectations. People look at zombies and see bad guys. The Forsaken were meant to subvert that.

If "Forsaken fans" wanted the Forsaken to be evil conquerors who nuke cities, they were never Forsaken fans. They were Scourge fans.

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

the only thing I can think of rationalizing Void Elf Darkfallen is when some Void Elves died like on that suicide rush in Nazmir and got resurrected by the Val'kyr and then sought refuge and custody with Thassarian and the Alliance Death Knights

I think somewhere around here it's the best explanation: IMO I think the Val'kyr continued raising any fallen Alliance Elves they could get their hands on (specially in Darkshore and Nazmir) into Darkfallen and sent them to the Dark Rangers, despite perhaps not always been Sentinels/Rangers.

Like we know more than just Sentinels died at Darkshore, so it's likely that even if they were the majority of the risen, other "classes" were also risen, but not represented in game. We see a BE rogue, Lorash, being risen willingly, so we know the power isn't limited to the Hunter class heh, but it does seem to be limited to elves.

So my Headcanon is that the VE Dark Rangers are in their majority VE's that died during the War of Thorns and even well into the Darkshore Warfront, with the Nazmir massacre being another prime situation where they could have been risen.

[Varodoc]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

My dude, she literally says the opposite.

You would be right if she said "But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance MUST do so"

Here she is literally saying that, if you want to depart and rejoin the Alliance, aka you support the Alliance, you are *FREE* to do so, but are in no way obliged, since that's what "free" means. She is literally saying that the Alliance supporters can freely leave if they want to, but are not forced to do so and can just keep hanging around in Lordaeron.

Compare "Any student who dislikes my classes is FREE to leave them" to "Any student who dislikes my classes MUST leave them", see the difference?

[Schwert]

The term "Darkfallen" only came into common use with the release of the new book. It showed up in ICC, but wasn't anything focal and people just used San'layn more than Darkfallen because it was brought up more.
The community as a whole, including more casuals - only the more hardcore fans even know of the actual term - knows what a Dark Ranger is. It is just easier to call it a "Dark Ranger" skin than a "Darkfallen" skin because your average player just recognizes it instantly.


People are nitpicking over the term when it doesn't actually matter all that much.

[Kyriani]

Dark Ranger Velonara says: Many of the kaldorei raised during the Battle for Darkshore wish to remain here with the dark rangers. But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance are free to do so

reading comprehension! velonara tells us that some darkfallen night elf stay with them, but that those who want to REJOIN THE ALLIANCE CAN DO SO

if you stay you are a member of the horde if you leave you stop being a member of the horde and rejoin the alliance.

lordaeron is the home of the forsaken undead horde

The actual in game text says:

There are those among the kaldorei raised by Sylvanas' val'kyr who wish to return to their own. If Tyrande would have them back, they are free to go. The rest will be welcome in the ranks of the dark rangers.

Just figured I'd add this for clarification. Velonara does not specifically say "many" or give any indication as to the number of kal'dorei that wish to return to the Alliance or remain with the forsaken.

[Rhlor]

My dude, she literally says the opposite.

You would be right if she said "But any who choose to depart and rejoin the Alliance MUST do so"

Here she is literally saying that, if you want to depart and rejoin the Alliance, aka you support the Alliance, you are *FREE* to do so, but are in no way obliged, since that's what "free" means. She is literally saying that the Alliance supporters can freely leave if they want to, but are not forced to do so and can just keep hanging around in Lordaeron.

Compare "Any student who dislikes my classes is FREE to leave them" to "Any student who dislikes my classes MUST leave them", see the difference?

are you saying that someone loyal to the alliance will stay to live in the horde's territory and people like commander belmont wouldn't tell them to get out of here? the fear of an attack by the alliance is still present those who leave join the alliance again those who stay are part of the horde it is not difficult to understand

[elbleuet]

are you saying that someone loyal to the alliance will stay to live in the horde's territory and people like commander belmont wouldn't tell them to get out of here? the fear of an attack by the alliance is still present those who leave join the alliance again those who stay are part of the horde it is not difficult to understand

Calia Menethil is literally an Alliance member inside the council

[Varodoc]

are you saying that someone loyal to the alliance will stay to live in the horde's territory and people like commander belmont wouldn't tell them to get out of here? the fear of an attack by the alliance is still present those who leave join the alliance again those who stay are part of the horde it is not difficult to understand

The Velonara quote? No, it wasn't.

As for what Belmont wants, he only comprises 1/5 of the Forsaken ruling body. And last I checked, the Alliance allowed Baine and Mayla to hang out literally in the Stormwind Throne Room, as we head into a future where faction restrictions become less and less important.

As if they weren't already very malleable, with a rogue devoted to the House of Wrynn literally hanging out in Dazar'alor.

[Rhlor]

Calia Menethil is literally an Alliance member inside the council

did you do the quest? she says she is not part of the alliance

[Luck4]

Void elven darkfallen were as much of an ass-pull as the rest of the race : they came out of nowhere with zero preamble. So in a semi-laughable way, they're exceptionally thematic.

This guy needs a trophy!

The best explanation so far for Darkfallen Void Elves.

[Ardenaso]

The issue with that is Blizzard has created an identity for those fallen Thalassian Magi Elves where they can still be Darkfallen Mages and not just be converted into Dark Rangers.

It would be the same if Shen'dralar Mages were raised into undeath. It would be unlikely that they would become Dark Rangers like Delaryn or Velonara - rather they would be Darkfallen Magi. If Sylvanas' Val'kyr were successful in raising all of those night elves at Delaryn's Demise, then most would have been Dark Rangers as they were former Sentinels; however two of them, Sarvonis and Ralara were Highborne Night Elf Mages who were almost raised. It is unclear what they would have become but as they were part of the Highborne caste, I'd put bigger bets on them being Darkfallen Mages, than actual Dark Rangers.

yupyup I agree there; perhaps the intended use should be Darkfallen instead of just Dark Rangers

I'd hope they give San'layn transmogs for Blood Elves too considering that it's possible that it wasn't just Dreven and his grunts

[Vaedan]

I think somewhere around here it's the best explanation: IMO I think the Val'kyr continued raising any fallen Alliance Elves they could get their hands on (specially in Darkshore and Nazmir) into Darkfallen and sent them to the Dark Rangers, despite perhaps not always been Sentinels/Rangers.

Like we know more than just Sentinels died at Darkshore, so it's likely that even if they were the majority of the risen, other "classes" were also risen, but not represented in game. We see a BE rogue, Lorash, being risen willingly, so we know the power isn't limited to the Hunter class heh, but it does seem to be limited to elves.

So my Headcanon is that the VE Dark Rangers are in their majority VE's that died during the War of Thorns and even well into the Darkshore Warfront, with the Nazmir massacre being another prime situation where they could have been risen.

I guess this is the best way to explain them, plus you could just RP them as a risen quel'dorei who decided to rejoin Alleria, a war hero of both Alliance and Quel'thalas, after Sylvanas abandoned Horde and left her Dark Rangers to their own fate.

As I said before, void elf darkfallen possibly will not be huge thing in the future, they will not be in spotlight and right now, there are not even any NPCs to represent them, but since they got it, one line from Velonara would be enough. Something like:

There are those among the kaldorei and ren'dorei raised by Sylvanas' val'kyr who wish to return to their own. If Tyrande or Alleria would have them back, they are free to go. The rest will be welcome in the ranks of the dark rangers.

Easy as that.

yupyup I agree there; perhaps the intended use should be Darkfallen instead of just Dark Rangers

I'd hope they give San'layn transmogs for Blood Elves too considering that it's possible that it wasn't just Dreven and his grunts

Icecrown t-mogs are pretty good for representing San'layn. I think you could also come a long way with some venthyr t-mogs too.