Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

itself is a short story in audio format

I understand that you prefer stories to be developed in the game, I prefer it too. but you name veeresa as an important character when her development is mainly in novels! she is an original character from the novels.

In any case, I think that seeing a short story of Lorthemar's wedding with another racial leader is something interesting and that it can contribute a lot to the lore of Quelthalas and Suramar.

She is the leader of the Silver Covenant, the main organization of High elves left on Azeroth (you know which high elves I am referring to so don't try to argue semantics here). Yes, she would be an important character for the High elves.

Vereesa is infamous for the role she played in the Purge of Dalaran, but I'm willing to bet that if said Purge happened in a short story or a comic, it would not be nearly as infamous as it is now.

[Rhlor]

She is the leader of the Silver Covenant, the main organization of High elves left on Azeroth (you know which high elves I am referring to so don't try to argue semantics here). Yes, she would be an important character for the High elves.

Vereesa is infamous for the role she played in the Purge of Dalaran, but I'm willing to bet that if said Purge happened in a short story or a comic, it would not be nearly as infamous as it is now.

and lor'themar also had many participations in the game like the siege of orgrimmar or the war against azshara.
And I repeat, Veeresa is an original character from the novels and much of his development as a character is thanks to the novels.
I think the parallel stories that can be found in other media. as comics and novels are very useful to develop the characters.

[Varodoc]

and lor'themar also had many participations in the game like the siege of orgrimmar or the war against azshara.
And I repeat, Veeresa is an original character from the novels and much of his development as a character is thanks to the novels.
I think the parallel stories that can be found in other media. as comics and novels are very useful to develop the characters.

That she originally appeared in novels is irrelevant. How many players actually knew about her before she first appeared in-game at Rhonin's side?

[Rhlor]

That she originally appeared in novels is irrelevant. How many players actually knew about her before she first appeared in-game at Rhonin's side?

I thought we were talking about character development. without a doubt, many people only knew about vereesa in wotlk and not from the books prior to her appearance in the game. but that she was there and that she was the wife of the leader of the kirintor is explained in the books. we can have different opinions I respect yours

already out of that topic I put some images again

[FlubberPuddy]

ely cannon makes it clear that these customizations exist so you can play as the high elf race. which are for both void elves and blood elves and that you choose your align

and yes, a mod said keep posting in this thread

I think you're taking things out of context or intentionally misrepresenting them. In the same way that wildhammer dwarves customization are available to players so they can RP they are playing as a wildhammer but that does not equal out to trying to say 'in lore, wildhammer dwarves have sworn fealty to bronzebeards hence wearing their heritage armor'.

You're taking a player customization option and talking as if in-game lore has been changed. There is no in-game lore of a 'Horde High Elf' that's simply a Blood Elf. They're all Blood Elves and identify themselves as Blood Elves - even if there are now some with blue eyes.

There is no such lore development of a neutral High Elf or Alliance-aligned High Elf going back to Silvermoon to join the Blood Elves, let alone calling themselves 'Horde High Elf'.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at really and I am more apt to agree with MyWholeLifeIsThunder that if you're talking about Blood Elves/Horde 'High Elves' you may as well simply keep it in whatever blood elf thread there is that others here are referring to.

Let me repeat: There is no such thing in lore as of this moment that a self-identifying High Elf of neutral or Alliance standing recently (as in the inception of WoW) went and joined the Horde. Any High Elf that swore allegiance to the Horde was already identifying as a Blood Elf. Only Blood Elves are allied with the Horde. Whether they have blue eyes or not.

A player customization being available doesn't need lore explanation (as nice as it would be), and a player customization being available does not mean the in-universe lore has changed to accept it until we get actual development of it.

Case in point -> Wildhammer Dwarves as a customization doesn't mean every single WH clan has now sworn fealty to Bronzebeard Dwarf Kingdom. Sand Trolls as a customization does not mean Sand Trolls we fought are now allied with the Darkspear tribe. Hell, Dark Troll customization does not overwrite that https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Speaker_Ik%27nal this NPC is still the sole surviving Dark Troll in existence (as of BFA!).

You are welcome to RP your own characters as such or accept others' RP of their characters as such, that has nothing to do with the game's canon for its races where they stand now until it actually becomes canonized either in-game or through game-related media from the WoW devs themselves.

[Rhlor]

snip

danuser said that lathysra goldenstar is a high elf
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDanu...75915969605632

[elbleuet]

danuser said that lathysra goldenstar is a high elf
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDanu...75915969605632

He doesn't say that

[Rhlor]

He doesn't say that

they are talking about her and he says famele high elf

[FlubberPuddy]

You're reaching really hard. RSG (red shirt guy aka Ian Bates) is stating that the only purple-eyed female blood elf now has their eyes fixed to blue. Then he mentions that "hopefully all the female high elves are fixed" (y'know the significant plethora of female high elves all around Alliance territory?).

Danuser is then responding to that latter portion, he's not saying anything specifically about or in particular to the purple-eyed female blood elf.

Also it isn't the first time (nor probably last) that we'll see an Alliance/neutral high elf or blood elf with 'incorrect eye color'. Frostfencer Seraphi (an Alliance High Elf) had green eyes for a while before they color corrected him. And green eyes at that time weren't given to Void Elves.

Again, you're reaching hard for something even the developers aren't admitting. No lore development has occurred that states a self-identifying High Elf has now joined the Blood Elves (and by proxy the Horde) since World of Warcraft's inception in 2004.

But just in case you need a reminder: Every blood elf is a high elf, every void elf is a high elf, but not every high elf is a blood elf or void elf.

You can RP your character however you see fit.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think you're taking things out of context or intentionally misrepresenting them. In the same way that wildhammer dwarves customization are available to players so they can RP they are playing as a wildhammer but that does not equal out to trying to say 'in lore, wildhammer dwarves have sworn fealty to bronzebeards hence wearing their heritage armor'.

You're taking a player customization option and talking as if in-game lore has been changed. There is no in-game lore of a 'Horde High Elf' that's simply a Blood Elf. They're all Blood Elves and identify themselves as Blood Elves - even if there are now some with blue eyes.

There is no such lore development of a neutral High Elf or Alliance-aligned High Elf going back to Silvermoon to join the Blood Elves, let alone calling themselves 'Horde High Elf'.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at really and I am more apt to agree with MyWholeLifeIsThunder that if you're talking about Blood Elves/Horde 'High Elves' you may as well simply keep it in whatever blood elf thread there is that others here are referring to.

Let me repeat: There is no such thing in lore as of this moment that a self-identifying High Elf of neutral or Alliance standing recently (as in the inception of WoW) went and joined the Horde. Any High Elf that swore allegiance to the Horde was already identifying as a Blood Elf. Only Blood Elves are allied with the Horde. Whether they have blue eyes or not.

A player customization being available doesn't need lore explanation (as nice as it would be), and a player customization being available does not mean the in-universe lore has changed to accept it until we get actual development of it.

Case in point -> Wildhammer Dwarves as a customization doesn't mean every single WH clan has now sworn fealty to Bronzebeard Dwarf Kingdom. Sand Trolls as a customization does not mean Sand Trolls we fought are now allied with the Darkspear tribe. Hell, Dark Troll customization does not overwrite that https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Speaker_Ik%27nal this NPC is still the sole surviving Dark Troll in existence (as of BFA!).

You are welcome to RP your own characters as such or accept others' RP of their characters as such, that has nothing to do with the game's canon for its races where they stand now until it actually becomes canonized either in-game or through game-related media from the WoW devs themselves.

danuser said that lathysra goldenstar is a high elf
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDanu...75915969605632

You know this is what makes me sad about the current state of this thread. You can give a thoughtful breakdown of the context in which customization options exist, and all the other person can do is dismiss everything, while taking a single tweet out of context.

I don't want to presume malice, but it's hard to see how this isn't outright trolling at this point.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Difference being that the the cultural shift between the US and UK has been 100s of years. But we're still humans. Blood elves and high elves are physically, exactly, the same species. The time from Kael renaming the faction to us running into Alleria stronghold is about 3-4 years.

And? I don't think they are making the point that they are biologically different, but that they are ideologically different, not unlike Huojin and Tushuii Pandaren.

The term race is far more of a gameplay conceit than any strict denomination metric.

You can make a Blood Elf character and they can be either undead, fel imbued or regular, but we call all of them blood elf for gameplay purposes.

Even when a Blood Elf demon hunter is as different from a BE as a VE is in terms of cosmic power mutation.

And yet Mechagnomes and Gnomes are different "races" when the only difference is mechanical upgrades.

For real, the fact that, say, Orcs and Maghar are treated as different races by gameplay purposes, yet Demon Hunters and Dark Rangers are still "Blood Elves", speaks more to A) The term race not being solely defined bt biological factors, instead cultural and sociological ones being as important, and B) that some "races" as undead Forsaken will simply be added on a model that makes the most sense, even if racially they should be "Forsaken"

[RenTheCat]

Difference being that the the cultural shift between the US and UK has been 100s of years. But we're still humans. Blood elves and high elves are physically, exactly, the same species. The time from Kael renaming the faction to us running into Alleria stronghold is about 3-4 years.

The moment the US declared its independence it already had its own culture, having things in common like speaking english doesn't mean they were the same, it didn't take hundreds of years for America to create its own new culture, it already had its unique culture, specially due to their interactions with natives, the climate of the land, the social status of the people who lived there, etc.
It's the same with Blood Elves and High Elves. Being part of the Horde, having interacted with Fel, the organizations they created like the Blood Knights, Sunreavers, etc. all show Blood Elves have their own culture that is different from what they had when they were High Elves just 15 years ago or from High Elves now who didn't really change anything about their culture and try to preserve it as much as they can. Even between W3 and TBC Blood Elves had done enough things to differentiate themselves from High Elves.

Them being the same species is irrelevant, and a weird way to classify them considering in the WoW universe the species is Elf, which includes Night Elves, Nightborne, etc.

[Rhlor]

You know this is what makes me sad about the current state of this thread. You can give a thoughtful breakdown of the context in which customization options exist, and all the other person can do is dismiss everything, while taking a single tweet out of context.

I don't want to presume malice, but it's hard to see how this isn't outright trolling at this point.

it is my honest opinion to me what the developers say that high elves are playable in horde and that customization exists to represent high elves whether they are npcs or player characters

but if you want something more most of these high elves are part of the reliquary and one of the goals of the high examiner taethelan was the unification of his people

[Mace]

You know this is what makes me sad about the current state of this thread. You can give a thoughtful breakdown of the context in which customization options exist, and all the other person can do is dismiss everything, while taking a single tweet out of context.

I don't want to presume malice, but it's hard to see how this isn't outright trolling at this point.

Sadly, @Rhlor does this is in really weird ways sometimes. Sometimes he gets things spot on, other times, it's like he can't understand context and interpretation.

Anyway, I agree with you. I actually do on most things you say.

- - - Updated - - -

it is my honest opinion to me what the developers say that high elves are playable in horde and that customization exists to represent high elves whether they are npcs or player characters

but if you want something more most of these high elves are part of the reliquary and one of the goals of the high examiner taethelan was the unification of his people

In my opinion it's down to interpretation - the developers mean you can play your blood elf as a high elf, but technically, if you're a high elf sided with the horde, you are a blood elf, because this is what they are in essence.

[Tanaria]

it is my honest opinion to me what the developers say that high elves are playable in horde and that customization exists to represent high elves whether they are npcs or player characters

but if you want something more most of these high elves are part of the reliquary and one of the goals of the high examiner taethelan was the unification of his people

High Elves on the Horde call themselves "Blood Elves."

We have seen this with the Purge of Dalaran where we saw blue-eyed Blood Elves taking up arms against the Humans and High Elves. Yes, their could be talk that they were / are High Elves who couldn't stand watching what the Alliance was doing and they chose to help their kin, but the moment they did that - they became Blood Elves.

I do think, with what we can see in Dragonflight - Blood Elves and Void Elves are the main group of Thalassians being used. Blood Elves being the more traditional group, whereas Void Elves being the less traditional

EDIT:
Now, I do grant - that before the Scourge Invasion, High Elves did behave in a very "Blood Elf-like" way. Those who wanted to go beyond the borders of Quel'Thalas were looked on as "weirdos" (for lack of a better word.) The High Elves were very traditional and only cared about Quel'Thalas. This has only exemplified since the Third War where the majority changed their name to "Blood Elves."
I doubt they would ever go back to the "Sunfury/TBC" way of life as again, that involved living on Outland which is just not part of Silvermoon Elven life.

[Rhlor]

Sadly, @Rhlor does this is in really weird ways sometimes. Sometimes he gets things spot on, other times, it's like he can't understand context and interpretation.

Anyway, I agree with you. I actually do on most things you say.

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In my opinion it's down to interpretation - the developers mean you can play your blood elf as a high elf, but technically, if you're a high elf sided with the horde, you are a blood elf, because this is what they are in essence.

is a silvermoon scholar in telogrus a blood elf or void elf? If in the future the void elves are given green eyes, which I think they should have because the silvermoon scholar are part of them, I think they are still blood elves in another faction. why? because a developer said that thalassians with green eyes they are blood elves.

[Mace]

is a silvermoon scholar in telogrus a blood elf or void elf? If in the future the void elves are given green eyes, which I think they should have because the silvermoon scholar are part of them, I think they are still blood elves in another faction. why? because a developer said that thalassians with green eyes they are blood elves.

Well, that depends on the Silvermoon scholar - he could be a blood elf identifying with the alliance (while that politically makes him a high elf, he could be apolitical - so up to him) - he could drop the blood elf and call lhimself a high elf - He is still Thalassian - and he is a scholar from Silvermoon so not labelled blood elf, but he would have identified as that, does he still?

What's the metric on this? he clearly is with the ren'dorei now. A ren'dorei blood elf? or high elf? can that distinction be made? Does it matter really?


You now have choice to identify as whatever you want, while their are still lines of distinctions , which ahven't changed, you have the freedom to play as a high elf, blood elf, void elf etc as far as CC will allow you

[Rhlor]

Well, that depends on the Silvermoon scholar - he could be a blood elf identifying with the alliance (while that politically makes him a high elf, he could be apolitical - so up to him) - he could drop the blood elf and call lhimself a high elf - He is still Thalassian - and he is a scholar from Silvermoon so not labelled blood elf, but he would have identified as that, does he still?

What's the metric on this? he clearly is with the ren'dorei now. A ren'dorei blood elf? or high elf? can that distinction be made? Does it matter really?


You now have choice to identify as whatever you want, while their are still lines of distinctions , which ahven't changed, you have the freedom to play as a high elf, blood elf, void elf etc as far as CC will allow you

So blood elf is not a political definition? when valeera lived in stormwind for being loyal to house wrynn was she a high elf? or blood elf?

[elbleuet]

So blood elf is not a political definition? when valeera lived in stormwind for being loyal to house wrynn was she a high elf? or blood elf?

Rhlor, please make an effort.

Blood elves are not defined by their allegiances. Blood elves are simply former High elves who followed Illidan's teachings and who, during that time, renamed themselves Blood elves, abandoning in the process some of their high elven traditions.

So even if Valeera pledges loyalty to an Alliance human she's still a blood elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Rhlor, please make an effort.

Blood elves are not defined by their allegiances. Blood elves are simply former High elves who followed Illidan's teachings and who, during that time, renamed themselves Blood elves, abandoning in the process some of their high elven traditions.

So even if Valeera pledges loyalty to an Alliance human she's still a blood elf.

Also it's important to stress the origin of the term Blood Elf, they renamed themselves to honor their fallen brethren.

From an in universe perspective a "Horde High Elf" would most likely be seen as someone that refuses to honor that tradition, so they would most likely not be respected by Blood Elves. A "Horde High Elf" would only refer themselves as such if they wanted to stand apart from the majority of the Blood Elf population -in much the same way neutral and alliance High Elves did.

That's why the idea of a Horde High Elf is so bizarre, because the "High Elves" that are on the Horde and govern over Quel'thalas call themselves Blood Elves. To reject that name, means that you're rejecting your people.

Which is entirely a valid personal immersion point, but by definition, a blue eyed thalassian elf that is loyal to Quel'thalas would refer to themselves as a Blood Elf.

The "Blue Eyes High Elf" fantasy is an aesthetic that both factions have access to, but it's also evident that on the Horde, you're still a Blood Elf, because that's where your loyalty lies.

And again, this is the generalization of it, as individual characters can very well choose to self identify as they wish. Valeera is more alliance than horde, but she has pride on her Blood Elven identity, so she still calls herself that, and I do think that leads to some ostracism on the alliance.

it is my honest opinion to me what the developers say that high elves are playable in horde and that customization exists to represent high elves whether they are npcs or player characters

but if you want something more most of these high elves are part of the reliquary and one of the goals of the high examiner taethelan was the unification of his people

So blood elf is not a political definition? when valeera lived in stormwind for being loyal to house wrynn was she a high elf? or blood elf?

Being a Blood Elf is a cultural identity issue, not merely political.

So if you are a Thalassian Elf, blue eyed or not, that is loyal to Quel'thalas and its people, Why would you call yourself a High Elf?

And that is a question that you can answer on a personal capacity, but you cannot equate that as a blanket statement that any blue eyed elves in the Horde are High Elves, because regardless of eye color, a thalassian elf that is loyal to Silvermoon WOULD refer to themselves as a Blood Elf, because it's a matter of cultural identity.

That's what you seem unable to grasp about this discourse, being a Blood Elf is a matter of identity, not eye color, so no, having blue eyes doesn't make you a High Elf. It gives you, as the player, the possibility of the high elf fantasy to play as you wish. But to ascribe the mere presence of blue eyes on an NPC as them being a High Elf, is completelly erroneous.