1. #26121
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Night elf dark rangers at least. At the end of Lordaeron questline, Velonara said all night elves who want to rejoin their kin are allowed to do so. Void elf dark rangers has not been adressed.
    The only explanation I see is that either some off screen void elves died at darkshore and were raised, or that some dark rangers decided to defect to the alliance and joined Alleria becoming void elves. Either way, it would have helped if there was any sort of indication of such instead of just saying "here ya go void elves! have some more customization! don't worry about explaining why!"

  2. #26122
    Void Elves were likely done as a perk for the players.

    The back story for this each and every player can make on their own. It's how we RP since time immemorial really, nothing new.

    I imagine there is other reason for DK/DH omittance, probably there was some sort of technological reason there. For example DH have no "Eyes" as option at all and DK only 2 options to begin with. It could be there was some issue there that would take too long to resolve if at all possible at the time.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  3. #26123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Void Elves were likely done as a perk for the players.

    The back story for this each and every player can make on their own. It's how we RP since time immemorial really, nothing new.

    I imagine there is other reason for DK/DH omittance, probably there was some sort of technological reason there. For example DH have no "Eyes" as option at all and DK only 2 options to begin with. It could be there was some issue there that would take too long to resolve if at all possible at the time.
    I'd really like to see DK's get eye color options. It would be cool to have an assortment of colors based on the magic they use.

  4. #26124
    I know it doesn't make much sense, but it's still insane how good the Darkfallen skin looks with VE hairstyles.

    I think they deliver the Vampire vibe way better than the High Elf vibe, and I think it's really funny because the other way around would make more sense.

    I mean...
    Back to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms!

  5. #26125
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    The only explanation I see is that either some off screen void elves died at darkshore and were raised, or that some dark rangers decided to defect to the alliance and joined Alleria becoming void elves. Either way, it would have helped if there was any sort of indication of such instead of just saying "here ya go void elves! have some more customization! don't worry about explaining why!"
    We've seen undead toying with the Void, so that might be the case, but sure, it'd be nice to see have one line to explain them. Not that void elves desperately need new lore anyway.

  6. #26126
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I know it doesn't make much sense, but it's still insane how good the Darkfallen skin looks with VE hairstyles.

    I think they deliver the Vampire vibe way better than the High Elf vibe, and I think it's really funny because the other way around would make more sense.

    I mean...
    As a Darkfallen Velf you can edgelord all day long...



    You even have a matching skull pal.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  7. #26127
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    As a Darkfallen Velf you can edgelord all day long...



    You even have a matching skull pal.
    Honestly, that looks most impressive. I switched my rogue to Nightfallen velf and blood elf warlock too.

  8. #26128
    The Lightbringer Highlord Hanibuhl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yes.

    Much like Silvermoon scholars did in the past, a group of Darkfallen have now joined the ranks of the Ren'dorei and thus Alleria Windrunner can use them in the future.
    Funny how you forget that there are also darkfallen night elves, which you seem to forget. If it's not related to void elves or alleria, it's less important

  9. #26129
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlord Hanibuhl View Post
    Funny how you forget that there are also darkfallen night elves, which you seem to forget. If it's not related to void elves or alleria, it's less important
    I did not forget them. They are simply not even worth mentioning, because they are indeed less important.

    Darkfallen Night elves don't give anything to the Alliance aside from expendable manpower.

    Darkfallen Forsaken, on top of expendable manpower, give the Alliance an additional claim to Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, the lands these Darkfallen died to protect from the Scourge.

  10. #26130
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I did not forget them. They are simply not even worth mentioning, because they are indeed less important.

    Darkfallen Night elves don't give anything to the Alliance aside from expendable manpower.

    Darkfallen Forsaken, on top of expendable manpower, give the Alliance an additional claim to Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, the lands these Darkfallen died to protect from the Scourge.
    What claim are you mentioning? These Darkfallen are just soldiers, there is no important person among them, who could have any legitimate claim on these lands. Let's say, if they brought back Anasterian back as Darkfallen, then your argument might have some relevance, but saying that no name undead rangers have claim on Quel'thalas is quite stretched.

    Night elf Darkfallen are at least officialy recognized as group by Velonara. Same can't be said for Void elf Darkfallen.

  11. #26131
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    What claim are you mentioning? These Darkfallen are just soldiers, there is no important person among them, who could have any legitimate claim on these lands. Let's say, if they brought back Anasterian back as Darkfallen, then your argument might have some relevance, but saying that no name undead rangers have claim on Quel'thalas is quite stretched.

    Night elf Darkfallen are at least officialy recognized as group by Velonara. Same can't be said for Void elf Darkfallen.
    That's not how this works.

    Now, if anyone tells the Alliance that they have no right to Lordaeron, they can just say that they have Forsaken in their ranks who are entitled to return to the land they died for. Thus, the flawed logic the Horde employed for years is twisted and turned against them.

    You only need an important person if you want a claim to the throne, not to the entire country.

  12. #26132
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That's not how this works.

    Now, if anyone tells the Alliance that they have no right to Lordaeron, they can just say that they have Forsaken in their ranks who are entitled to return to the land they died for. Thus, the flawed logic the Horde employed for years is twisted and turned against them.

    You only need an important person if you want a claim to the throne, not to the entire country.
    Sylvanas conquered Undercity from Scourge, which granted her legitimate claim over Lordaeron. That means Sylvanas, and Forsaken, had claims to Lordaeron by conquest. There was no other person who could object at the time.

    Void elf Darkfallen are not in this position. First of all, when they fought to claim Lordaeron, it was under Sylvanas' banner possibly. The moment they were exiled from the Horde, they lost all priviledges Horde could give them.

    To challenge the rights to the throne, you need important person, as you say. Void elf Darkfallen currently have no important person in their ranks. They don't even have single NPC to represent them. In game, they are non existent group with no mention, aside for character customization.

    That means Alliance have no real claim on Lordaeron through ren'dorei darkfallen.

  13. #26133
    The Lightbringer Highlord Hanibuhl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Sylvanas conquered Undercity from Scourge, which granted her legitimate claim over Lordaeron. That means Sylvanas, and Forsaken, had claims to Lordaeron by conquest. There was no other person who could object at the time.

    Void elf Darkfallen are not in this position. First of all, when they fought to claim Lordaeron, it was under Sylvanas' banner possibly. The moment they were exiled from the Horde, they lost all priviledges Horde could give them.

    To challenge the rights to the throne, you need important person, as you say. Void elf Darkfallen currently have no important person in their ranks. They don't even have single NPC to represent them. In game, they are non existent group with no mention, aside for character customization.

    That means Alliance have no real claim on Lordaeron through ren'dorei darkfallen.
    Yeah!

    PLUS... although Quel'Thalas was part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, it wasn't part of the KINGDOM of Lordaeron.
    Elves from Quel'Thalas don't have the right to Lordaeron because they used to be in an alliance with them. That would mean the Night Elves have right to Ironforge if it ever gets taken by the Horde.

  14. #26134
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Sylvanas conquered Undercity from Scourge, which granted her legitimate claim over Lordaeron. That means Sylvanas, and Forsaken, had claims to Lordaeron by conquest. There was no other person who could object at the time.

    Void elf Darkfallen are not in this position. First of all, when they fought to claim Lordaeron, it was under Sylvanas' banner possibly. The moment they were exiled from the Horde, they lost all priviledges Horde could give them.

    To challenge the rights to the throne, you need important person, as you say. Void elf Darkfallen currently have no important person in their ranks. They don't even have single NPC to represent them. In game, they are non existent group with no mention, aside for character customization.

    That means Alliance have no real claim on Lordaeron through ren'dorei darkfallen.
    No, Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken had a claim on Lordaeron by virtue of being its original defenders, who died protecting that land.

    Void elf Darkfallen are Forsaken, thus according to Sylvanas they have the same claim to Lordaeron as the Horde Forsaken.

    It's all pretty straightforward really.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlord Hanibuhl View Post
    Yeah!

    PLUS... although Quel'Thalas was part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, it wasn't part of the KINGDOM of Lordaeron.
    Elves from Quel'Thalas don't have the right to Lordaeron because they used to be in an alliance with them. That would mean the Night Elves have right to Ironforge if it ever gets taken by the Horde.
    Aside from the fact that many elves lived and died in Lordaeron, since Anasterian sent formal aid to Lordaeron and there were certainly many elves living in other countries, so you can easily roleplay the dark ranger as an elf who lived and died in Lordaeron; Sylvanas did not exclude the Dark Rangers when she said that the Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron. Thus, all Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron, not just Undead Humans. And thereby, all Dark Rangers have a claim to Lordaeron, just like Undead humans.

  15. #26135
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    No, Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken had a claim on Lordaeron by virtue of being its original defenders, who died protecting that land.

    Void elf Darkfallen are Forsaken, thus according to Sylvanas they have the same claim to Lordaeron as the Horde Forsaken.

    It's all pretty straightforward really.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Aside from the fact that many elves lived and died in Lordaeron, since Anasterian sent formal aid to Lordaeron and there were certainly many elves living in other countries, so you can easily roleplay the dark ranger as an elf who lived and died in Lordaeron; Sylvanas did not exclude the Dark Rangers when she said that the Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron. Thus, all Forsaken have a claim to Lordaeron, not just Undead Humans. And thereby, all Dark Rangers have a claim to Lordaeron, just like Undead humans.
    You still miss the part that claim is applied to the Forsaken faction, who are Horde aligned undead. The moment these Undead leave Forsaken to join other faction (Priest Conclave, Argent Crusade or Alliance), they lose all rights and priviledges tied to the faction they are leaving.

    If you want to claim a some lands, you still need a person to rally behind. Alliance Darkfallen have no such person. You know, if you would justify Alliance claims by Turalyon, a War hero who is from Lordaeron and is now Stormwind regent, we can have some discussion. No name Darkfallen elves provide no such opportunity.

  16. #26136
    The Lightbringer Highlord Hanibuhl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,110
    But that makes the Undercity of Lordaeron such an interesting place. It used to be owned by the Kingdom of Lordaeron, part of the Alliance of Lordaeron... it was taken over by the Scourge, then captured and ruled by the Forsaken under the banner of the Horde... to be later conquered back by the Alliance, only to be blighted beyond redemption.
    Now, it seems to be cleansed by the Horde AND Alliance to be used again by the Forsaken and any other undead that wish to join the Forsaken.

    As a member of the Alliance, it's still weird, having helped the Horde get back a capitol that was once part of an Alliance you may or may not have been part of.

  17. #26137
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    You still miss the part that claim is applied to the Forsaken faction, who are Horde aligned undead. The moment these Undead leave Forsaken to join other faction (Priest Conclave, Argent Crusade or Alliance), they lose all rights and priviledges tied to the faction they are leaving.

    If you want to claim a some lands, you still need a person to rally behind. Alliance Darkfallen have no such person. You know, if you would justify Alliance claims by Turalyon, a War hero who is from Lordaeron and is now Stormwind regent, we can have some discussion. No name Darkfallen elves provide no such opportunity.
    Nowhere in Sylvanas' statement is that distinction made between Alliance-aligned undead and Horde-aligned undead. All she said is that the Alliance shouldn't deny the Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron, because they died for that land. That's it. There is no distinction made whatsoever.

    As a reminder, Sylvanas initially wanted to join the Alliance. It's not like she sees the Forsaken in the Alliance as some kind of sin or crime. It was opportunity alone that led them in the Horde.

    The Forsaken are not defined by their membership in the Horde, but by their past as fallen Lordaeron defenders. That is what gives them a claim to Lordaeron.

    Therefore, the Horde should not deny the Alliance Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron.

    And as a side note, the ultimate proof of this is that Alonsus Faol, neutral member of the Conclave, is still addressed as a Forsaken in Before the Storm. This is ultimate proof that a "Forsaken" is not defined by membership to the Horde, but by their past as a fallen defender of Lordaeron.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-06-03 at 01:33 PM.

  18. #26138
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Nowhere in Sylvanas' statement is that distinction made between Alliance-aligned undead and Horde-aligned undead. All she said is that the Alliance shouldn't deny the Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron, because they died for that land. That's it. There is no distinction made whatsoever.

    As a reminder, Sylvanas initially wanted to join the Alliance. It's not like she sees the Forsaken in the Alliance as some kind of sin or crime. It was opportunity alone that led them in the Horde.

    The Forsaken are not defined by their membership in the Horde, but by their past as fallen Lordaeron defenders. That is what gives them a claim to Lordaeron.

    Therefore, the Horde should not deny the Alliance Forsaken's rights to Lordaeron.
    Forsaken are special group of intelligent undead formerly ruled by Sylvanas, who are part of the Horde. There is no such thing as neutral or Alliance Forsaken. That being said, Forsaken is political organisation.

  19. #26139
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Agree that undead blood elf paladins will be weird, they could lock this customization for them as they did for DHs.
    Too late. It already went live.

  20. #26140
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Forsaken are special group of intelligent undead formerly ruled by Sylvanas, who are part of the Horde. There is no such thing as neutral or Alliance Forsaken. That being said, Forsaken is political organisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    And as a side note, the ultimate proof of this is that Alonsus Faol, neutral member of the Conclave, is still addressed as a Forsaken in Before the Storm. This is ultimate proof that a "Forsaken" is not defined by membership to the Horde, but by their past as a fallen defender of Lordaeron.

    Forsaken is not and has never been a "political faction".

    Even in WotLK, Putress referred to himself and his followers as "Forsaken", despite the fact that they betrayed Sylvanas to join the Legion.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •