Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

Is that a reliable source? We helped to obliterate the whole ruling class.

Of course it is.

Blood Elves and Nightborne stood away from their leaders who eventually went mad, with trying to save their people.
What happened to the Night Elves was simply Queen Azshara getting bored and wanting some entertainment.

This is why Kael'thas and Elisande are far more similar than they are to Azshara.
The two formers wanted to save their people. The Night Elf just wanted something to do for entertainment.

I have come round to wanting Kael'thas back though; but I don't believe Blizzard will have him in any leadership roles. They've hinted at the torch being passed on, but that doesn't mean Kael'thas couldn't return.
Personally speaking, I'd rather have Kael'thas come back and be a Blood Elf Warlock, leading the Sanctum with Shinfel Blightsworn

[Grazrug]

Of course it is.

Blood Elves and Nightborne stood away from their leaders who eventually went mad, with trying to save their people.
What happened to the Night Elves was simply Queen Azshara getting bored and wanting some entertainment.

This is why Kael'thas and Elisande are far more similar than they are to Azshara.
The two formers wanted to save their people. The Night Elf just wanted something to do for entertainment.

I have come round to wanting Kael'thas back though; but I don't believe Blizzard will have him in any leadership roles.
I'd rather have Kael'thas come back and be a Blood Elf Warlock, leading the Sanctum with Shinfel Blightsworn

I played alot of Hearthstone last expansion and all new card art was amazing. That feels like not being ignored.

[Tanaria]

I played alot of Hearthstone last expansion and all new card art was amazing. That feels like not being ignored.

I'm not interested in Hearthstone.

But this lady:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shinfel_Blightsworn

A "powerful blood elf warlock" and Kael'thas could certainly have the fel-side return and make blood elves the main elven race when it comes to all things "fel."
Just like Night Elves have Druidism and Elune being their thing; Light and Fel should be the Blood Elf known thing, just so the two core elves are different.

[allegrian]

Having pretty blood elves and regal nightborne screaming "For the Horde" surrounded by monster races feels super out of place and is one of the main reasons I don't vibe with the faction post Vanilla. None of the alliance races feel out of place in comparison. Also, post Legion the Horde story doesn't make sense with the Sylvanas stuff and the others following her, including the elves and Tauren, while turning horde soldiers into zombies and all that.

I hope they make a world revamp where all races can go to any faction city so the factions are abolished and it's up to your headcanon where you belong, so you could be a Tauren vibing with night elves, a Blood Elf in stormwind and so on.

[Grazrug]

Having pretty blood elves and regal nightborne screaming "For the Horde" surrounded by monster races feels super out of place and is one of the main reasons I don't vibe with the faction post Vanilla. None of the alliance races feel out of place in comparison. Also, post Legion the Horde story doesn't make sense with the Sylvanas stuff and the others following her, including the elves and Tauren, while turning horde soldiers into zombies and all that.

I hope they make a world revamp where all races can go to any faction city so the factions are abolished and it's up to your headcanon where you belong, so you could be a Tauren vibing with night elves, a Blood Elf in stormwind and so on.

Play classic then. Nothing stops you.

Allegiance shouldn't be defined how normal you look by human Standards. And I can make bets human fans will be the First to demand that Orcs shouldn't enter Stormwind.this is targeted at elves only and it shows.

[Mace]

Stop this bullshit, Mace. Your a failure at lore.

The sin'dorei were NOT team Legion. They had no idea what the Sunfury were doing on Outland.
They hated Elisande and would never entertain her. Your a failure at Elf lore, period.

The Nightborne who follow Thalyssra are exactly the same as the Silvermoon, Scryer and Shattered Sun Blood Elves who follow Liadrin.
Both stood away from Kael'thas and Elisande and vowed to fight for their people.

So no - your story fails in every regard because Elisande dies and those who sided with her, actually RETURNED to the Horde nation of Suramar, under Thalyssra's leadership and she allowed them back.

Tanaria is back. laying the lore down. Dear Tanaria, this is not l ore I am writing, but just an example of how it could have been done better. Written differently in a way that would have been fairer and perhaps equally favourable to both factions.

It isn't off course what happened. Elisande appears dead after the encounter, we all know that, but the Nighthold was released in 7.1 after the decision to have allied races was made and it was decided for the Nightborne would go horde, this could have been a change they made. Elisande's echo, or one of them does help us, that echo surely is alive, they could have written it differently too, or even added a side quest that for the horde or class leader that would see Elisande made whole from her fragments..

When dealing with the realm of possibility even anything is possible because you have creative licences. My dear, must I explain to you that this is not the lore here, but simply an example of what may have been ? To show how something would have been better for and fairer for both?


Don't be all indignant.. you get offended far too easily and forget the suggestions you keep getting offended over simply make things fairer and often enough are similar treatments extended to the other faction .

Why you get offended is beyond me, after all, do not the blood elves you love win everything? They have all the high elf assets, they also now have gained the night elf assets too along with the night elf sub race. They have the nigh t elven city of Suramar.. all the magic of the two elven races, the night and day ones are powerfully displayed on their side. Meanwhile their counterparts, the original, are adrift, homeless, refugees, they have little to no assets, a remnant on the brink of extinction with little to no power.

This is the reality. knowing this to be the case, why on earth are you feeling threatened. Afterall it's been 6 years since patch 7.1 and 5 since BFA and for all the cries of unfair from alliance fans or warcraft people, the anguish at terrible night elf treatment or useless void elves. void elves still have no zone players quest with them to know them well , or serious lore, they have no assets, are refugees in Stormwind. Night elves also have no home, for all their Highborne, and Moonguard regardless of their capability or potential, their Moon priests and even night warriors, their druids, their well of eternity, emerald dream and even a goddess.. they have nothing.. it's been 5 years. No home, no city, no power, no exploits, no victories, no cool displays.

Surely it's clear blood elves and Nightborne sit on top, hey got everything, they lead the horde now too, their magic does everything for the horde, they are also it's new faces.. they have lands, magic, cities, forests and are growing stronger. For all intents and purposes, blizzard means the alliance elves to be down there and the horde elves up there.

What does a mere fan suggesting how things could have been fairer change that? Night elves still don't have their city, High elves and void elves still locked out, and no sign they will. Night elves seem to have a tree, and be the perfect savage feral warriors, with nothing to rival the blood elves.. no sign of infrastructure, and it looks like the tree won't be in any of the zones near the horde.. if it shows up in ohn'arna plains as expected night elves would have 1 tree in the middle of the far reaches of one zone, maybe they can sleep on it's leaves and roam endless forests in thier dreams. This simply means all of the Broken Isles is available for the horde as well as all of Kalimdor, there can't be enough night elves to even settle one of the boughs of that tree, let alone hold any of those zones you are so fearful the horde might lose

This is a zero magic future for the night elves, zero home, zero city, zero power and there is nothing that suggests it will change. how is saying that Elisande leading a group of Nightborne to Silvermoon would have been fairer going to change the reality of the situation? What are you afraid? Humour or fellow fan should haves and could haves do not a reality make.

Did not the alliance want high elves.. they got purple blood elves with shaggy hair that looks slept in.. they at least got void powers, but with madness looming, they can barely control it, do they look like a viable threat to blood elves? they want to win their blood elf kin over to the alliance, they aren't likely going to march on their homeland to claim it back.

And where are the high elves.. they are playable through imagining your void elf is a high elf.. how laughable.. they don't even have playable character recognition of high elves, they have no high elf settlements ANYWAYWHERE in the world which is weird, you'd think at least they'd have built a high elf city or town that's grown into a city by now, it's been over 20 years since the scourge war.. they should have been fucking like rabbits and have an entire generation of elves in their 20s now gained land from their allies and built something... yet they're in such a pathetic state.


You love feeling proud of the horde elves.. you have EVERY reason to be, they have everything of the high elves and the night elven civilizations on your favourite faction. This is the reality in the lore and the game. Nothing I saw about what could have been or should have been will say that. Let the loser alliance fans remember drams of the better days and fantasise of what could have been been.. What is clear is that this is not the case now. And there is nothing all the mounds of writing and whining can do to change it.

I mean you can at last feel sorry for them instead of angry. You aren't losing anything, in fact, if one of the lacks is true.. Silvermoon has a brand new harbour with ships, likely will be the port to sail to Avaloren form. A massive statue of Lor'themar and Thalyssra there, and evidence of Nightborne structures [presumably meaning night elf architecture from Suramar] This speaks of a revamp and further consolidating of the Silvermoon/Suramar bond and alliance, and improvements to Silvermoon.


Your elves are getting more. Did you see Amir'drassil? The new raid. there is some monstrous structure that has none of the elven delicacy and beauty accustom to the night elves there, if the night elves get that same tree it looks like this is the most they'll get of civilization and buildings. Probably dedicated to Elune who is clearly a goddess of life and not arcane, so even with night elf mages, they're going to be tree people elves, with spears and bow, little to no advanced magic from their past or present. . Clad in skins and leaves, with fangs and claws these would e the "elves" of the alliance.. barely reminiscent of the name, while the other lot seemed to already begin to go mad.. did you not see the island expedition void elf teams? That's the last we really saw with them in action.

so one group is descending into total savages - probably going to get a rename soon, and the other into crazy madmen.. leaving like demons, only interested in power and not caring whether they're living on a bare rock or cave or in a place, as long as it has ore void.

This is not the elegant high elves or majestic kaldorei civilization, there is no sign of it now, nor of it coming. No matter how much I or my brother may cry or any other alliance fan.

Answer me now this, why are you upset? Clearly you don't care for how I feel, or any of us for that matter. Nothing we have said or say about them has come to pass. What does it matter if we are happy about the state of things for you? especially if making us happy might mean the alliance elves have something attractive and desirable in comparison or over the horde elves Off course you don't care.. so why are yo upset?

[allegrian]

Play classic then. Nothing stops you.

Allegiance shouldn't be defined how normal you look by human Standards. And I can make bets human fans will be the First to demand that Orcs shouldn't enter Stormwind.this is targeted at elves only and it shows.

There's no problem with orcs entering stormwind if the story for it makes sense. But right now the story in wow doesn't make sense of blood elves/Nightborne having Orgrimmar as their capital and where their leader is. It's like if we got important people from Great Britain reporting to a warlord in a village in Uganda.

We know the reason for elves in the Horde (they needed asians to play more horde as they hated monster races), but the characterization within the game of elves in the horde is very badly done. Elves wouldn't accept the tribal and militaristic culture from the orcs/trolls/Tauren and they would work more like external military allies.

- - - Updated - - -

Your elves are getting more. Did you see Amir'drassil? The new raid. there is some monstrous structure that has none of the elven delicacy and beauty accustom to the night elves there, if the night elves get that same tree it looks like this is the most they'll get of civilization and buildings. Probably dedicated to Elune who is clearly a goddess of life and not arcane, so even with night elf mages, they're going to be tree people elves, with spears and bow, little to no advanced magic from their past or present. . Clad in skins and leaves, with fangs and claws these would e the "elves" of the alliance.. barely reminiscent of the name, while the other lot seemed to already begin to go mad.. did you not see the island expedition void elf teams? That's the last we really saw with them in action.

so one group is descending into total savages - probably going to get a rename soon, and the other into crazy madmen.. leaving like demons, only interested in power and not caring whether they're living on a bare rock or cave or in a place, as long as it has ore void.

This is not the elegant high elves or majestic kaldorei civilization, there is no sign of it now, nor of it coming. No matter how much I or my brother may cry or any other alliance fan.

Man you never liked night elves, you're crazy in love with blood elves and Azshara's Highborne/Nightborne. Night elves have been "wood elves" since Warcraft 3, their buildings were living TREES. Darnassus was made of wooden, open structures and 1 single temple of elune, that's how it should be. Your problem is that you love the magic elves but hate the horde. Just play them and try to stop hating the horde so much, or join an Alliance guild and make your headcanon about being more alliance than horde.

[Grazrug]

There's no problem with orcs entering stormwind if the story for it makes sense. But right now the story in wow doesn't make sense of blood elves/Nightborne having Orgrimmar as their capital and where their leader is. It's like if we got important people from Great Britain reporting to a warlord in a village in Uganda.

We know the reason for elves in the Horde (they needed asians to play more horde as they hated monster races), but the characterization within the game of elves in the horde is very badly done. Elves wouldn't accept the tribal and militaristic culture from the orcs/trolls/Tauren and they would work more like external military allies.

Tauren are spiritual not shamanistic. They will not attack unless provoked. Darkspear got forced to drop their evil ways by Thrall. Even the undead are now peaceful due to Calia input which I hate too. Only race to see war as needed is the Orc in that way. Every other race that joined the Horde since is in their way to civilization with permanent settlements slowly or otherwise. The light dwelling blood elf Paladin has more in common with the Sunwalker Tauren then the moon priestess of the night elves.

[Mace]

Man you never liked night elves

That statement you make that response to was not made about me. The night elves use to be a broad race that encompassed the best version of the dark elf fantasy, with powerful wizards and night civilization great in magic, with high priestess and goddess of the night. coupled up with the best of the nature fantasy, with forest , trees, walking trees, druids, rangers and archers too.. together faction grade. This is what they use to be.

This is not what they are looking like.. whether I like it or not, this is their future. Tanaria is threatened by the dark elf portion of the night elves for some reason, but she has nothing to fear bout the alliance night elves gaining anything close to what they use to have now does she. She use to feel the night elves should be feral and savage.. this is not what the elf racial type is about.. but I guess blizzard can make an elf an animal and still call it an elf, though I would think a better name, say maybe a worgen or werelf might be better.

You don't know what I like, don't presume you know me or all the things I want , even on this limited scope, based on one post.

Night elves are defined by being nocturnal - neither nature or arcane singularly defines them. They are just two contrasting parts to their make up. Until blizzard changes this as they are doing now.

, you're crazy in love with blood elves and Azshara's Highborne/Nightborne. Night elves have been "wood elves" since Warcraft 3, their buildings were living TREES. Darnassus was made of wooden, open structures and 1 single temple of elune, that's how it should be. Your problem is that you love the magic elves but hate the horde. Just play them and try to stop hating the horde so much, or join an Alliance guild and make your headcanon about being more alliance than horde.

I don't think you understand night elves at all. Azshara's Highborne, Nightborne are all part of that race. wooden open structures isn't all there was to night elves. clearly you never noticed marble and stone structures, and clearly you never read descriptions of their pre-sundering civilization covered in 3 volumes.. if you did, I don't think you would see Nightborne, Suramar or civilization or the arcane as anything but Night elven, as night elven as you see druids, walking trees, open plan buildings. You do know there is more than one fantasy to night elves from the old DND definitions. You do realise some people like both, or either, and liking either one over the other or both doesn't mean they don't like night elves.

You don't qualify what someone likes about something else. If you are unaware of what night elves are or what belongs to them. I suggest the following:
Firstly Read Warcraft Chronicles Volume 1-3
Go to the new warcraft wiki site and look up Night elves - read everything linked on those pages, especially Highborne, Nightborne, Elune, Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients - it's good back ground but it won't tell you everything the following will.


1. Get hold of a Warcraft 3 manual and READ IT - the section of the night elves.. I have a link somewhere with the info.
2. Read the War of the Ancients trilogy
3. Play Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos
4. Play WC3 TFT
5. Play classic wow , and retail and focus on the following zones with a night elf toon. Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Desolace, Feralas, Stonetalon Mountain, Felwood, Moonglade, Winterspring, Hyjal and Azshara zones.
6. Do the Black fathom deeps instance in Ashenvale, Wailing caverns in the Barrens, and then Dire Maul instances - make sure you speak to the Highborne ghost and listen to everything told, interact and build rep with the Shen'dralar faction.
7. Check out the war of the shifting sands event too in classic, some important lore. Do the raid AQ too
8. View the TBC cinematic with Illidan.
9. Journey to Zangarmarsh, do all the quests, especially the 3 instances, in particular the steam vaults
10. Journey to Sylvanar in Blades Edge mountain and do the quests there
11. Journey to Nagrand and do the quests with Altruis the Sufferer - pay attention to what he says.
12. Do the Shadowmoon valley quests - particularly the ones surrounding Karabor and the naga as well as the broken draenei with Maiev imprisoned, freeing her.
13. Do the Serpentine shrine Cavern raid, the Battle of Mount Hyjal Raid and the Black Temple raid.
14. Do Borean Tundra in WotLk, pay attention to the kvaldir quests in the west so you can get to the ruins (doesn't matter if you're horde or alliance here)
15. Do Dragonblight quests - you must be alliance here for the sentinels there to give you quests. It's in one of the south outposts not far from the Taunka village and the blue dragon burial ground, then you want to do Crystalsong Forest too for the history of the night elf city ruined there.
16. Become a night elf champion for the Argent Tournament and might as well do the Trial raid there, it's short and easy with a max character, do it on the shore so you fight the alliance night elf team.
17. Search Dalaran for Mordant Evenshade to pick up the cata pre-patch content
18. Read World of Warcraft the comic - just read all,, pay particular attention tot he part with Logosh, Broll Bearmantle, Vaneesa Sanguinar and Dire Maul
19. Read Stormrage the novel
20. Read the Curse of the Worgen comic
21. Read Wolfheart the novel
22. Read Seeds of Faith short story (warcraft website)
23. In the cata zones retail now, with a night elf or Nightborne toon - play through the night elf related zones through, you will need to do twice, once on the horde first, start with Azshara then Ashenvale and follow the chains, then with the alliance toon. Make sure you play close attention to the night elven schools of mages in Azshara, Teldrassil and Feralas - you will have to wait to hear some of the conversations going on - you will need an alliance toon so they don't attack you.
24. Check out Vash'jir zone, pay attention to all the lore, structures and info you find.
25. Play the Hyjal zone too including the Firelands rejuvenation area.
26. Play the Dire Maul 3 wings instances, then the Well of Eternity instance - good lore - ignore the graphics, the visage is updated later in Legion to something that fits the book description far better
27. Play the End times instance in cata - until you go to the Tyrande section
25. Read quest for Pandaria the comics (not essential, but good background for the upcoming events in MoP)
26. Play the opening zones of MoP, enjoy the night elf rogue part of the alliance team
27. Play to the scene when Tyrande arrives and Varian corrects her
28. Play Siege of Orgrimmar - you only need up till they enter Orgrimmar and Tyrande appears
29. Read Warcrimes the novel
30. in WOD, pay close attention to Cordanna Felsong, and Delas Moonfange, pay close attention to the alliance night elf npcs, priest sand mages - all the alliance portals are done by night elves since cata. On your alliance garrison, note the mission table night elves and pick them all. Wowhead will help you collect them all.
31. Listen to Nightborne: Twilight of Suramar
32. Listen to Tomb of Sargeras audio novella (there are 4 parts)
33. Play Legion expansion: Outside the night elf zones in Warcraft and the novels, this has the greatest amount of night elf lore. And is a must play through. Start with a demon hunter to get the Mardum experience.
34. Head to Azsuna first then Val'sharah with their dungeons too Shrine of the Storms and Darkheart Thicket. Pay very close attention to Val'Sharah and Azsuna,
35. You must do Archaoelogy, Tailoring and enchanting quests. [not sure if there are Nelf related quests in other professions like LW - but Alchemy and herbalism have some info.
36. You need the druid class order as well as the Demon Hunter and Mage one and finally hunter one for the Unseen path lore - yes I did them all. Read the table top missions for the demon hunter, druid and mage class - you might need 3 character here.
37. Then Suramar zone and city with any of those toons.. do everything, every quest, and the following dungeons too. Vault of the Wardens, The Court of Stars, the Arcways and the Cathedral of Eternal Night. Do the Emerald Nightmare raid, The Nighthold raid and the Tomb of Sargeras.
38. Make sure you do the Broken Shore class order quests, and the Legion invasions and all the world quests, especially in Suramar, Azsuna, Val'sharah and the Broken Shore.
39. Train your Withered Army in the ruins of the Temple of Falanar - Occuleth's words are very important. And don't skip any Suramar cinematics or voice narratives. what Thalyssra shows and Ly'leth say are quite important.
40. Now follow Illidan to Argus and pay attention to everything he does, you'll need to do 2 out of the 3 zones and then do the raid Antorus the Burning Throne
41. Read War of Thorns novels Elegy and a Good war, but you 'll need to play the pre-patch war as it has some detail missing in the novellas. You'll need to read both I'm afraid
42. Alliance assaults are fun, join some night elf mages beat up invasions and do some island expeditions. Although i'ts more fun on the horde as you'll coe up against night elf mages and druids. The Nightsquall being one of them.
41. Play patch 8.1 Night warrior questline only (it's short don't worry), play the Warfront called Battle for Darkshore, has a cool cinematic.
42. Then play Naz'jatar part of 8.2 only and do the Eternal Palace Raid. All of it.
43. See if you can gain access to the Shadowlands pre-patch or watch videos of the Tyrande Nathanos part of the quest line there, then do Shadowlands Ardenweald quests you will eventually get to the Tyrande bit, it's a small part but it's important.
43. Then make sure you don't skip to the start of Korthia quests, you'll need the cinematic of Tyrande vs Sylvanas, but as it isn't triggered by quests directly related to Tyrande you can YouTube the video. there is a cut scene Tyrande also appears in when Sylvanas is sentenced at the end of Shadowlands, you can watch it too.
44. Finally you should be in dragonflight next. First scene comes at the end of the Valdrakken quest chain, you see what happens to Malfurion,
45. The next is in 10.1.7 which is the current live patch.. and you should be all caught up.

Then you will see a much broader picture of the night elves, You will never see the Nightborne as anything but night elves on the horde, never feel that the dark elf side of the night elf isn't part of the night elf because it contrasts so sharply with the forest elf side. You will find out that such contrasts are a hallmark of the night elves and they are everywhere, form their character to their lore and their history..

I'm sure I've forgotten a few bits, but I tried to to get as much in as possible.

[Grazrug]

That statement was not made about me. The night elves use to be a broad race that encompassed the best version of the dark elf fantasy, with powerful wizards and night civilization great in magic, with high priestess and goddess of the night. coupled up with the best of the nature fantasy, with forest , trees, walking trees, druids, rangers and archers too.. together faction grade. This is what they use to be.

This is not what they are looking like.. whether I like it or not, this is their future. Tanaria is threatened by the dark elf portion of the night elves for some reason, but she has nothing to fear bout the alliance night elves gaining anything close to what they use to have now does she. She use to feel the night elves should be feral and savage.. this is not what the elf racial type is about.. but I guess blizzard can make an elf an animal and still call it an elf, though I would think a better name, say maybe a worgen or werelf might be better.

You don't know what I like, don't presume you know me or all the things I want , even on this limited scope, based on one post.

Night elves are defined by being nocturnal - neither nature or arcane singularly defines them. They are just two contrasting parts to their make up. Until blizzard changes this as they are doing now.

No. They were night visioned wood elves. Since their intro. They dropped the majestic parts 10k years ago and killed arcane magic users until recently when Blizzard needed a lore reason for night elf mages. And neither Kaldorei nor Nightborne are even close to Drow since they lack the shady and edgy parts of living underground and worship a deity that is at least questionable.

[allegrian]

Tauren are spiritual not shamanistic. They will not attack unless provoked. Darkspear got forced to drop their evil ways by Thrall. Even the undead are now peaceful due to Calia input which I hate too. Only race to see war as needed is the Orc in that way. Every other race that joined the Horde since is in their way to civilization with permanent settlements slowly or otherwise. The light dwelling blood elf Paladin has more in common with the Sunwalker Tauren then the moon priestess of the night elves.

I think that after BFA, blizzard chose to make horde 100% good thus putting all alliance-aligned leaders in the horde (thrall, Baine, Calia, removing Gallywix...).
From what I know, there has always been some discrepancies in blizzard about horde being good vs evil. In the making Wow book ("The World of Warcraft Diary: A Journal of Computer Game Development") it shows how Metzen wanted the Forsaken to bee good, similar to what we have now, vs Allen Adham (now vice president at blizz) and others pushed for them to be evil as it would be fun to have evil playable races. Now that Metzen is back, I'm sure they'll stop pushing for horde villain bats and they'll be basically red-alliance and more like they were suposed to be after W3. The problem is there are big evil things the horde did that weren't addressed, they should show horde leaders making ammends for teldrassil in the next patch, but it seems that the horde is barely in it.

[Grazrug]

I think that after BFA, blizzard chose to make horde 100% good thus putting all alliance-aligned leaders in the horde (thrall, Baine, Calia, removing Gallywix...).
From what I know, there has always been some discrepancies in blizzard about horde being good vs evil. In the making Wow book ("The World of Warcraft Diary: A Journal of Computer Game Development") it shows how Metzen wanted the Forsaken to bee good, similar to what we have now, vs Allen Adham (now vice president at blizz) and others pushed for them to be evil as it would be fun to have evil playable races. Now that Metzen is back, I'm sure they'll stop pushing for horde villain bats and they'll be basically red-alliance and more like they were suposed to be after W3. The problem is there are big evil things the horde did that weren't addressed, they should show horde leaders making ammends for teldrassil in the next patch, but it seems that the horde is barely in it.

Baine and Mayle hade a side quest supporting the centaurs. the horde soldiers are nightelf dark ragners. Blizzard is keen of letting stay Horde leaders out of the plot to avoid tension with the alliance no matter what the treaty says.

[Mace]

No. They were night visioned wood elves. Since their intro. They dropped the majestic parts 10k years ago and killed arcane magic users until recently when Blizzard needed a lore reason for night elf mages. And neither Kaldorei nor Nightborne are even close to Drow since they lack the shady and edgy parts of living underground and worship a deity that is at least questionable.

I guess you know more than the developers themselves and what they wrote:

The devs have expressed the intention behind the night elves: One such interview is here

https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html



I talk extensively here for people like you , mostly horde players I note who like to pigeon night elves in the wood elf category.. they be drifting to that now, but this is certainly not where they were at or have been as all the night elf development concerning magic, the Highborne, their civilization, the demon hunters, the wells of power and the lore that keeps coming up all indicate, latest the night elf heritage questline all show. You will be cutting out a lot from the night elves if you eliminate all those books about their arcane knowledge and power, all those zones, raids, instances, might as well just remove all the Nightborne lore of 7.0 and 7.1 too, and start with Amir'drassil in patch10.2 if you want to avoid night elves and magic. Good luck.


Here is what hte Wc3 manual said too.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/


Shall i go on to chronicles, and list all it says about the night elves? The message has been pretty consistent all the way through in book and game of the arcane/nature duality and roles.

Okay.. so I should ignore the night elves past you say? Which one? The one about the Shen'dralar and the Highborne reuniting, or the night elf mage that gets face paints tattoos and the arcane moon wells? or the city they built on Teldrassil? or should i just ignore the one is in the pre-sundering era because it had cities and arcane wonders.. but it also had druids and Ancient walking trees the lore says helped built and maintain those cities, it also had night elves living in both urban and rural areas, in forests as well as cities, shall I ignore all that because it's the past? or shall I just pick the parts you don't think night elves should have or don't want them to have. Which parts will they be? The arcane one? Okay.. let's start with the Well of Eternity.. with it goes the night elves and their civilization, but also the legion, the long vigil, the moonwells, Nordrassil, the defeat of Archimonde.. but then without it, we shouldn't really be calling them elves, they'll be Dark trolls, and dark trolls that have nothing to them but nature, because that's what night elves are right?

The evidence is all there, the discussion happens multiple times read another just 3 years ago
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...idn-t-Consider

always the same denials, the same group of people, all horde fans to boot, despite overwhelming evidence in the lore, in the game, layer upon layer. They accuse me of head canon, I point out what's in front of their eyes, yet all they see is what they want to see and I'm the one with head canon.. and they get offended when I call them hypocrites.

/shrug - it's all there. Notice I am never the one that says night elves have no nature legacy or power, but they are always the ones that come to say night elves have no arcane legacy or power, and that's clearly false.. I mean where do you think the High elves and thus blood elves got it from. or do you think they somehow swallowed all the talent and magic up from the night elves and all their knowledge too and it then settled entirely on the Thalassian elves. Then what are all these night elven mages and Nightborne about? why do night elf cities keep showing up. sure there is plenty of forest stuff, but why do night elves have to be involved with arcane magic or fel magic just because you don't like the alliance ones to have it.. those annoying alliance.

"But they stopped " he whines,.. it all in the past only... Oh really? So it's not really theirs because it's the past? And the story clearly shows you one of their groups stopped for a while but started again - so it's not a part of the night elves? What was clear form the outset as just a period for the the main group of night elves some of you take as the only thing about night elves when the developers have clearly shown you a lot more and tell you that they are are more than just one area.

Obviously you're not a night elf fan, but a blood elf one, what's your interest in night elves being in trees or palaces.. is it that you don't want night elves to be in palaces only in trees? But what does it matter to you if you don't play them or like them - clearly you think they're in trees, and you don't play them or like them.. surely and clearly night elves just as trees people isn't attractive enough.. clearly. Blizzard therefore to make them and their product more attractive should actually play up the other parts of the night elves, because clearly they were not visible enough for you to take not e of them and it took someone with extensive knowledge of them to point it out to you. something that should have been noticed easily.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

What your doing is changing already established lore, from TBC in order to make night elves happy.

Blood Elves of Silvermoon were NOT, I repeat, NOT complicit with the Legion. They had no idea what was going on, in Tempest Keep and the lengths the Sunfury were pushing.
So therefore - they would NOT feel any connection or sympathy to Elisande or her loyalists (which would have been the former Highborne Elders, since Thalyssra states it was the Shal'dorei Elders who planned the surrender to the Legion) because they are too much akin to the Sunblade and Dawnblade forces, loyal to Kael'thas and Kil'jaeden.

EDIT: Just because Quel'Thalas introduced Warlocks doesn't mean anything, since we could easily say Stormwind, Lordaeron, Ironforge and Orgrimmar were all complicit with the Legion, since they all had Warlocks schools.

[Mace]

What your doing is changing already established lore, from TBC in order to make night elves happy.

What exactly am I changing.

Blood Elves of Silvermoon were NOT, I repeat, NOT complicit with the Legion. They had no idea what was going on, in Tempest Keep and the lengths the Sunfury were pushing.
So therefore - they would NOT feel any connection or sympathy to Elisande or her loyalists (which would have been the former Highborne Elders, since Thalyssra states it was the Shal'dorei Elders who planned the surrender to the Legion) because they are too much akin to the Sunblade and Dawnblade forces, loyal to Kael'thas and Kil'jaeden.

EDIT: Just because Quel'Thalas introduced Warlocks doesn't mean anything, since we could easily say Stormwind, Lordaeron, Ironforge and Orgrimmar were all complicit with the Legion, since they all had Warlocks schools.

Oh you're still on about that? You made it sound like I was changing all the lore. I believe the Scryers who had been fighting for Kael'thas already in league with the legion are the ones that turn aside from that path.

This is what they are deeply repentant for when they come o Shattrath seeking peace and forgiveness and so redeeming some of the blood elves' best magicians. This was a story I believe was meant to give them commonality with the orcs and the horde... having once been hoodwinked by leaders in serving the legion and then turning aside. It's a minor detail. But it's not a real scenario. Whether the blood elves did or no, would it be out of character to provide sanctuary to an exiled Elisande and Nightborne repentant of their actions and in danger of death due to their addiction? Ancient night elves holding all that arcane knowledge and skills. A powerful ally, but also a people in need of help.

[Tanaria]

What exactly am I changing.




Oh you're still on about that? You made it sound like I was changing all the lore. I believe the Scryers who had been fighting for Kael'thas already in league with the legion are the ones that turn aside from that path.

This is what they are deeply repentant for when they come o Shattrath seeking peace and forgiveness and so redeeming some of the blood elves' best magicians. This was a story I believe was meant to give them commonality with the orcs and the horde... having once been hoodwinked by leaders in serving the legion and then turning aside. It's a minor detail. But it's not a real scenario. Whether the blood elves did or no, would it be out of character to provide sanctuary to an exiled Elisande and Nightborne repentant of their actions and in danger of death due to their addiction? Ancient night elves holding all that arcane knowledge and skills. A powerful ally, but also a people in need of help.

Yes...100%, it goes against their character.
The Scryers defected when Kael'thas was still in league with Illidan and they believed that both were going too far.

The only Sunfury who returned to Quel'Thalas were the Blood Elf Warriors, who pledged to help the Farstriders.
The Sunblade, Shadowsword and Dawnblade Elves all remained Legion-aligned until the very end and they are the ones who are more in common with Elisande and her Nightborne and Felborne.

Why would the Blood Elves have killed their own, without giving them a chance to return to society, but allow a different group of Elves a chance to repent, with a leader who is no different from the one, they willingly put to the sword? It goes against what the Shattered Sun and Silvermoon Blood Elves stood for at the time.

That is why, it makes no sense.

[Mace]

Yes...100%, it goes against their character.
The Scryers defected when Kael'thas was still in league with Illidan and they believed that both were going too far.

The only Sunfury who returned to Quel'Thalas were the Blood Elf Warriors, who pledged to help the Farstriders.
The Sunblade, Shadowsword and Dawnblade Elves all remained Legion-aligned until the very end and they are the ones who are more in common with Elisande and her Nightborne and Felborne.

Why would the Blood Elves have killed their own, without giving them a chance to return to society, but allow a different group of Elves a chance to repent, with a leader who is no different from the one, they willingly put to the sword? It goes against what the Shattered Sun and Silvermoon Blood Elves stood for at the time.

That is why, it makes no sense.

Point is there were returnees, it's part of the redemption arc, they can relate to such a scenario.

[Tanaria]

Point is there were returnees, it's part of the redemption arc, they can relate to such a scenario.

They can't.

Kael's forces on Quel'Danas are the exact same as Elisande's loyalists.
Both were killed, at the hands of the Blood Elves, funnily enough.

Their is no relatable feelings there. Liadrin and Rommath bury any similarties between themselves and Elisande's lot, the moment they arrive. Indeed, they draw the comparison between Kael'thas and his forces and Elisande and her forces.

They don't see any relatable scenario and they are the most important characters in this.

[Mace]

They can't.

Kael's forces on Quel'Danas are the exact same as Elisande's loyalists.

Kael never turned away from the Legion, Elisande did. Go play the encounter. She is the reason we can use the Nightwell against Gul'dan. Blood elves would and could feel sympathy for Elisande and her loyalists who eventually turn round and help in this alternate scenario.

[Tanaria]

Kael never turned away from the Legion, Elisande did. Go play the encounter. She is the reason we can use the Nightwell against Gul'dan. Blodo elves would and could fele sympathy for Elisande and her lyalists who eventually turn round and help in this alternate scenario.

No they wouldn't.

Blood Elves, namely Liadrin and Rommath, two leaders within Quel'Thalas, constantly compare Elisande to Kael'thas. Go and play the actual game. Not your headcanon game. Silvermoon would have nothing to do with a bunch of crazed Highborne Elders who were only recently, Legion loyalists.
Unless it's just a goal to give Blood Elves some shit, so nelfs can look amazing.

Your scenario doesn't work and it's just victim desperation to have Thalyssra shack up for a threesome with Tyrande and Malfurion.

At some point - your going to have to drop this because I do think this obsession is making you ill. You really need to take a break from these forums Mace. Your taking the Nightborne and Blood Elves on the Horde, way too seriously.

EDIT:
I do think you want Quel'Thalas and Suramar on the Alliance and for no lore to be given to Blood Elves and Nightborne. I think that's the ulterior motive which seems to make these threads, very calculated, considering it's only a week and a half until Blizzcon. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with these threads - whatever the next expansion is, Blizzard suddenly changes their minds and gives Alliance, Quel'Thalas and Suramar with nothing for Blood Elf and Nightborne players?
What if Quel'Thalas updates comes and it's just for the Blood Elf / Horde players? Will these threads finally stop?