1. #26241
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Yeah I foresee a lot of race changes and/or new races made that players would normally never play once cross faction guilds come out.
    I can't wait for it, it has been nearly 7 years since I left the Alliance, and while I've lots of Alliance alts, it's not the same thing, your faction is where your main is.

  2. #26242
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    The rubbish comes from a chagrined few in the overall playerbase that can’t stand that Blizzard actually added customization options so that Alliance has access to a High Elf, and those who can’t stop beating the absolute dead horse that is the “Blood Elves are High Elves” meme from way back then.

    Because these are the same posters who have been very involved in the whole debate of whether high elf customizations should come to Alliance so clearly they’re intentionally ignoring all the explanations for why when High Elves are referred to it’s specifically about the group whose political ideology were opposed to Blood Elves that players have been wanting access to.
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves.
    High Elves are High Elves.

    Both sides of this needs to get a grip. "High Elf features" are on both Horde and Alliance now. That's great.
    I have been playing a Void Elf (High Elf looking) Holy Priest, because I'd like a concrete Alliance healer.

    The only thing I'd like is for the majority of Thalassian themes, minus the void, to be given to the Blood Elves, whereas Void Elves carry the big void theme forward.
    In the same way I'd like the majority of Darnassian themes to be with the Night Elves, whereas that core "Mage-like" thing is with the Nightborne.

    EDIT: Obviously, you can play a Blood Elf Shadow Priest or Night Elf Arcane Mage; but this is where the allied races in Void Elf and Nightborne come in.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2022-11-08 at 08:32 PM.

  3. #26243
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves.
    High Elves are High Elves.

    Both sides of this needs to get a grip. "High Elf features" are on both Horde and Alliance now. That's great.
    I have been playing a Void Elf (High Elf looking) Holy Priest, because I'd like a concrete Alliance healer.

    The only thing I'd like is for the majority of Thalassian themes, minus the void, to be given to the Blood Elves, whereas Void Elves carry the big void theme forward.
    In the same way I'd like the majority of Darnassian themes to be with the Night Elves, whereas that core "Mage-like" thing is with the Nightborne.

    EDIT: Obviously, you can play a Blood Elf Shadow Priest or Night Elf Arcane Mage; but this is where the allied races in Void Elf and Nightborne come in.
    I think kind of like you said that both sides need to get a grip.

    In that same vein, I think both sides but especially the Blood Elf fans, need to realize that most likely it’s going to be the case that any customization regarding “High Elf” is going to be given to both Void Elves and Blood Elves.

    This is the difference between the groups. Most people on the Void Elf side don’t care if High Elf looks are shared. But for some reason there are players that want only Blood Elves to get “High Elf customizations” going forward.

    Blizzard has simply shown they’re going to share whatever isn’t strictly Blood Elven/Void Elven between the two Thalassian races, just as they have for some customizations already and things like Dark Ranger looks.

  4. #26244
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    It is political, but any High Elf who has green, blue or purple eyes who wears the tabard of Silvermoon (or indeed, serves the Sunreavers in Dalaran) is Horde aligned, in/directly or not, and is considered a Blood Elf.

    There's no such thing as a "Horde High Elf."

    Where is this rubbish coming from that we have "Horde High Elves." It's almost as bad as those night elf fans who call Nightborne, the "Horde Night Elves." It's Blood Elves and Nightborne - specifically, as far as these two races go, High Elf and Night Elf are no longer a thing within their respective nations.
    Exactly. If you're politically aligned with Silvermoon and the Horde, you *are* a Blood Elf by definition. If you aren't, then you're purposefully going *against* your own people's ideology. Which is fine and good as a personal story, but in terms of overall worldbuilding lore, refusing the name Blood Elf is tantamount to refusing the very own people you want to be a part of.

    The name Blood Elf was crated to honor the fallen, and we have no in universe addressing at attempting to reclaim the name High Elf for the Silvermoon citizenry.

    Again, I think you can do a lot for it on your personal RP, but in universe, Blood Elf and High Elf are *highly* politically and ideologically charged seld-denominations, and given the reasons Blood Elves changed their names, they *would* look with resentment at any "High Elf" that claimed to be part of Silvermoon.

    On topic - I would love see more of a union between High Elves, Void Elves and Night Elves. I think the combination of Arcane (High Elf), Void (Void Elf) and Druidism (Night Elf) could lend themselves to a very interesting dynamic between the 3 Alliance elves.
    The alliance elves *need* to come closer together tbh. It worked so well for NB and BE. Perhaps they don't want to frame the same type of closeness again, but they could do some fun stuff with the dark side of the moon ;D

  5. #26245
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    The alliance elves *need* to come closer together tbh. It worked so well for NB and BE. Perhaps they don't want to frame the same type of closeness again, but they could do some fun stuff with the dark side of the moon ;D
    The Alliance Elves could take on the idea of "balance."

    The Night Elves embody the balance of nature within their Druidism.
    The Void Elves could embody the balance of needing both light and void in order for true co-existence.

    I'm not if the High Elves would be brought into this, but if they did - using High Elven Magi and their extremely stable use of the Arcane could bring true balance between Arcane, Nature and Void.

    Blood Elves and Nightborne are allies through their use of powerful arcane magics.

  6. #26246
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I think kind of like you said that both sides need to get a grip.

    In that same vein, I think both sides but especially the Blood Elf fans, need to realize that most likely it’s going to be the case that any customization regarding “High Elf” is going to be given to both Void Elves and Blood Elves.

    This is the difference between the groups. Most people on the Void Elf side don’t care if High Elf looks are shared. But for some reason there are players that want only Blood Elves to get “High Elf customizations” going forward.

    Blizzard has simply shown they’re going to share whatever isn’t strictly Blood Elven/Void Elven between the two Thalassian races, just as they have for some customizations already and things like Dark Ranger looks.
    Void elf players never cared if they got High elf customization options because, believe it or not, fair-skinned options are part of the Void elf identity and have always been part of it. Alleria Windrunner, first and leader of the Ren'dorei, literally spends most of her time in her fair-skin form.

    High elf players obviously wanted those options because it allows them to play a fair-skinned elf on the Alliance, without having to play on the side with ugly capital cities and ugly races (the Horde).

    The only ones who are bothered by this seem to be the fanbase of the Horde, specifically the fanbse of the Blood elves, who repeatedly deny the Canonical choice made by Blizzard all the way back in 2017, when they allowed Alleria to keep her fair form, DESPITE HAVING BECOME A VOID ELF.

    For years, this fanbase desperately clung to only one baseless claim, that Alleria was not an actual Void elf... but, aside from the fact that she called herself a Void elf literally in the first quest she gives the player, this last attempt at a claim is completely disintegrated by Shadows Rising objectively, factually stating that she is a Void elf.

    So now this fanbase truly has no claim left, to try and deny that fair-skinned options are part of the identity of Void elves.

    And so, since fair-skin options have always been an integral part of what constitutes a Void elf, it only made sense that they were implemented eventually.

    We'll see the sharing continue, as the Ren'dorei's ranks grow more and more, as many Thalassian become disillusioned with Theron's regime and seek better fortunes with their kin in the Alliance. You already mentioned the most recent example, the Dark Rangers who returned to the Alliance and are now part of the Ren'dorei ranks, and are playable in-game as a special customization options for the Void elf gameplay race.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-11-09 at 08:19 PM.

  7. #26247
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    The Alliance Elves could take on the idea of "balance."

    The Night Elves embody the balance of nature within their Druidism.
    The Void Elves could embody the balance of needing both light and void in order for true co-existence.

    I'm not if the High Elves would be brought into this, but if they did - using High Elven Magi and their extremely stable use of the Arcane could bring true balance between Arcane, Nature and Void.

    Blood Elves and Nightborne are allies through their use of powerful arcane magics.
    Wouldn't be mad about it, but honestly I do personally want some focus the void/light aspect of the alliance elves, with Elune framed as the coexistence of something that appears dichotomous.

    Is there a connection between what we call "void" and the idea of the Dark Side of The Moon we've seen mostly through the Night Warrior? You put those questions through an Astral magic lens, and you can bring in together so many aspects of the alliance Elves. Void Elves already have a mysterious and cosmic vibe, and the Kaldorei are the Children of the Stars, so a focus of the study of the mysteries of the celestial bodies through Elune and the Void as parameters could be so good. And High Elves fall right into it in their role as scholars, specially considering their link to Frost magic and how that is also linked to Astral bodies as comets.

    Elune's Light, The Void and Ice, through an Astral lens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves.
    High Elves are High Elves.

    Both sides of this needs to get a grip. "High Elf features" are on both Horde and Alliance now. That's great.
    I have been playing a Void Elf (High Elf looking) Holy Priest, because I'd like a concrete Alliance healer.

    The only thing I'd like is for the majority of Thalassian themes, minus the void, to be given to the Blood Elves, whereas Void Elves carry the big void theme forward.
    In the same way I'd like the majority of Darnassian themes to be with the Night Elves, whereas that core "Mage-like" thing is with the Nightborne.

    EDIT: Obviously, you can play a Blood Elf Shadow Priest or Night Elf Arcane Mage; but this is where the allied races in Void Elf and Nightborne come in.
    I think that if High Elves could have a more specific (yet not unique) I would really go for the Ranger vibe. It really is *iconic* to High Elves specifically as part of the alliance since their introduction, and Alleria's return brought that to the present.



    The Warpaint, the braids, the "Ranger Look." Besides their assimilation into Dalaran, I do think that the ranger aesthetic could give High Elves that little bit of distinction going forward, specially considering the Highvale Elves that are predominantly Rangers (and interestingly, refer to themselves as "Highvale" Elves) Perhaps a focus on that group could allow for High Elves, or Highvale Elves, to have a more specific presence in the alliance elven world beyond the more generic Dalaran focused, human hybridized Silver Covenant.

    And as you said, that doesn't preclude the other elven races to have access to the same themes as parts of their overall cultural identity, rather, we're talking about the predominant themes of a race. So any "Farstrider" markings that VE/HE could get, also would Blood Elves, since it's a cultural theme for both. It's just not THE main cultural thing for Blood Elves, certainly not as prominent as the Light is.

  8. #26248
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    From the Chronicles of the Second War discord server:



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    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  9. #26249
    Oh I had meant to share this, a blue recolor of the Fireplume Regalia. Would be fun if they added recolors for it on the Trading Post.




  10. #26250
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Oh I had meant to share this, a blue recolor of the Fireplume Regalia. Would be fun if they added recolors for it on the Trading Post.
    SNIP
    It would, but it would leave a sour taste in many people's mouths who bought the actual set.
    It also wouldn't be right to tell players "You HAVE to buy the original before you buy this."

    Great idea and perfect for a Quel'dorei Magister.

  11. #26251
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    It would, but it would leave a sour taste in many people's mouths who bought the actual set.
    It also wouldn't be right to tell players "You HAVE to buy the original before you buy this."

    Great idea and perfect for a Quel'dorei Magister.
    I think if the original color remained exclusive in the shop, other recolors could be sold on the TP, without needing previous purchase of the shop one.

    Also made a VE one!




  12. #26252
    Since the worgen got a new racial that allows them to automatically assume human form after combat, wouldn't it be nice to get a racial for Velves that hides Entropic Embrace?

  13. #26253
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Since the worgen got a new racial that allows them to automatically assume human form after combat, wouldn't it be nice to get a racial for Velves that hides Entropic Embrace?
    Would be plenty useful, I think, in maximizing immersion. Entropic Embrace is the last thing that really prevents a Void Elf from feeling like a High Elf with the right skin tone, so it would be very helpful if we could do away with it.

  14. #26254
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Where is this rubbish coming from that we have "Horde High Elves." It's almost as bad as those night elf fans who call Nightborne, the "Horde Night Elves." It's Blood Elves and Nightborne - specifically, as far as these two races go, High Elf and Night Elf are no longer a thing within their respective nations.
    Oh and who might those fans be? Those awfully stupid fans that perhaps haven't realised that

    Blood Elves. ARE Horde high elves
    Nightborne ARE horde night elves

    And no one would be wrong in calling void elves playable alliance high elves.


    What exactly do you think they are ? Did blizzard not coin blood elves from high elves and Nightborne from Night elves? Or are you denying the obvious then ridiculing those who point it out because you’ve somehow convinced yourself what is plain in front of your eyes isn’t there. Oh the mental gymnastics.

    Oh wait, is it denial of horde elves actually coming from originally alliance elves, so that the horde could get some "pretty" races on it - to attract players. So now we have people denying what they are. You can glory in the difference of blood elves from high or void elves or Nightborne from night elves, but lets not forget what they really are and why they are where they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    On topic - I would love see more of a union between High Elves, Void Elves and Night Elves. I think the combination of Arcane (High Elf), Void (Void Elf) and Druidism (Night Elf) could lend themselves to a very interesting dynamic between the 3 Alliance elves.
    What do you mean by a union?

    Druidism ? Why not Elunism or the divine (night elf)? Or have we forgot Elune is more central to the night elf than nature is. And you realise the void elves employ the void heavily in the arcane too.. so a more accurate way of presenting this, seeing the arcane is actually the common heart of all elves, would have been fel (blood elf) [not arcane (high elf], Void (void elf) and Nature [not druidism] (night elf)
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-03-14 at 05:58 PM.

  15. #26255
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Since the worgen got a new racial that allows them to automatically assume human form after combat, wouldn't it be nice to get a racial for Velves that hides Entropic Embrace?
    Yes, it would be.

    The Ren'dorei are the masters of Void magic, their control of it should be good enough that they can keep their true appearance hidden even during a fight.

    Indeed, At the Battle of Lordaeron, Alleria Windrunner fought while keeping her fair-skinned form the entire time.

  16. #26256
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    What stupid thing to say.

    Blood Elves. ARE Horde high elves
    Nightborne ARE horde night elves

    And no one would be wrong in calling void elves playable alliance high elves.


    What exactly do you think they are ? Did blizzard not coin blood elves from high elves and Nightborne from Night elves? Or are you denying the obvious then ridiculing those who point it out because you’ve somehow convinced yourself what is plain in front of your eyes isn’t there. Oh the mental gymnastics.
    That is also a slippery slope since all High Elves are Night Elves, and all Night Elves are Trolls.

    How is any race defined as becoming something else if we only recognize them for what they once were and not recognize the choices they take to be something different? It's more than just about physical attributes, it's entire cultures we are talking about.

  17. #26257
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    That is also a slippery slope since all High Elves are Night Elves, and all Night Elves are Trolls.

    How is any race defined as becoming something else if we only recognize them for what they once were and not recognize the choices they take to be something different? It's more than just about physical attributes, it's entire cultures we are talking about.
    We all know Blizzard gave the horde high elves in 2006 as blood elves, and off course gave the horde the night elf sub race as their version of night elf in 2016 then allowed those high elves to be playable as void elves on the alliance ensuring both factions had both types of elves albeit slightly different.

    Neither void elves nor nightborne are a full new race, we both know that. It is certainly not the same as trolls and elves who are different races and connected through new lore that comes after their introduction.

    And we both know they made night elves different enough from high elves to be considered a race albeit the same shoot and in fact only got a different skeleton model from TBC onwards for gameplay purposes rather than lore. Meanwhile Nightborne and void elves are just sub races of their main races rather than full races (like Troll/Elf) of their own ir substantially differentiated enough. ( like NElf /HElf), Trolls and Elves are anatomically different.

    Although Elves come from trolls, they are not a sub set of trolls. Nothing troll about them anymore.

    However High elves are a subset of night elf and blood/void elves are a high elf variation while Nightborne a night elf variation.

    There is nothing incorrect about calling blood elves as horde high elves, or calling Nightborne as horde night elves and it felt a rather stupid thing of him I,e, Tanaria to sneer dismissively at people who say something that is actually the case.
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-03-14 at 05:18 PM.

  18. #26258
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    However High elves are a subset of night elf and blood/void elves are a high elf variation while Nightborne a night elf variation
    They are a model variation, but they aren't exactly the same races either. Nightborne aren't "Night Elves on Horde", they are Nightborne on Horde.

    Night Elf on Horde would be Night Elf on Horde. ie- if Broll Bearmantle decided to take a bunch of NE with him so he could be on the same faction as Rehgar and Valeera; that would be Night Elf on Horde.

    Other than sharing similar facial features, they have their own model with their own proportions, and Blizzard has gone out of their way to make them culturally distinct from NE.


    Blood Elves and Void Elves being regarded as High Elves would make sense though, since they are still directly connected to High Elven culture.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-03-14 at 06:08 PM.

  19. #26259
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    SNIP
    @MyWholeLifeIsThunder - do you want to explain to Mace, because I truly can't be bothered.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    We all know Blizzard gave the horde high elves in 2006 as blood elves, and off course gave the horde the night elf sub race as their version of night elf in 2016 then allowed those high elves to be playable as void elves on the alliance ensuring both factions had both types of elves albeit slightly different.

    Neither void elves nor nightborne are a full new race, we both know that. It is certainly not the same as trolls and elves who are different races and connected through new lore that comes after their introduction.

    And we both know they made night elves different enough from high elves to be considered a race albeit the same shoot and in fact only got a different skeleton model from TBC onwards for gameplay purposes rather than lore. Meanwhile Nightborne and void elves are just sub races of their main races rather than full races (like Troll/Elf) of their own ir substantially differentiated enough. ( like NElf /HElf), Trolls and Elves are anatomically different.

    Although Elves come from trolls, they are not a sub set of trolls. Nothing troll about them anymore.

    However High elves are a subset of night elf and blood/void elves are a high elf variation while Nightborne a night elf variation.

    There is nothing incorrect about calling blood elves as horde high elves, or calling Nightborne as horde night elves and it felt a rather stupid thing of him I,e, Tanaria to sneer dismissively at people who say something that is actually the case.
    Except that Nightborne and Blood Elves are Nightborne and Blood Elves. They are no longer "Night Elf" or "High Elf" as both Thalyssra and Kael'thas tells us.

    In the very cinematic - Thalyssra states "Slowly, it changed us." So are you saying that nelf fans are right and both Thalyssra and Blizzard are wrong?

    Nightborne are just Nightborne
    Blood Elves are just Blood Elves.

    Remove Night Elf and High Elf from them. They are no longer apart of or are relevant to those Horde races.
    The Night Elves especially, since no Night Elf was present for the wedding of Lor'themar and Thalyssra.

  20. #26260
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post



    Except that Nightborne and Blood Elves are Nightborne and Blood Elves. They are no longer "Night Elf" or "High Elf" as both Thalyssra and Kael'thas tells us.

    In the very cinematic - Thalyssra states "Slowly, it changed us." So are you saying that nelf fans are right and both Thalyssra and Blizzard are wrong?

    Nightborne are just Nightborne
    Blood Elves are just Blood Elves.

    Remove Night Elf and High Elf from them. They are no longer apart of or are relevant to those Horde races.
    The Night Elves especially, since no Night Elf was present for the wedding of Lor'themar and Thalyssra.
    Dude, you know EXACTLY what I am saying. You should have stuck to your own advise above. I certainly will.

    You know exactly what fans mean when they say blood elves are horde high elves, or nightborne are horde night elves.

    'You know it exactly.

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