Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Mace]

That's only one, plus the High Elves and Void Elves.

The majority populace are still Blood Elves, but a Sunwell loss might make them question Lor'themar's strict "little fel please" policy, where even he knows he has to go back to it.
Then comes Kayn and Shinfel and later Kael'thas, who Shinfel "borrows" from Revendreth.

Shinfel is a woman who would lie and deceive to get what she wants. If she wants Kael'thas, then she'd retrieve him and bring him back to Quel'Thalas.

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Well I'm sorry, but it is.
Blood Elves come from a lineage that made up the most Elite magical users in Azeroth.

Wielding Fel Magic, as we've seen before, is child's play for them. The Sanctum could and should easily do far greater fel-based activities than what the lowborne night elves ever did.

Yes they do, so they have capability, but you have to remember that the night elves are those elite magical users, full of the original well enhanced power, and the knowledge to boot, and have had over 10 millennia with it, you talk about so called "lowborne" with the arrogance of the Legion period Highborne, yet the night elves are made up of the old societies Highborne and lowborne, and every Highborne was raised from a lowborne. Lowborne does not mean no talent or no skill, Highborne was and is simply a status It makes no difference. Also you do realise there are other castes right? The priest caste for example. Meanwhile the blood elves are descendants, diminished capacity, had to learn most things over again, still have only a fraction of what their night elf counterparts have.

On paper the night elf is better at this, it usually is the case in fantasy for the dark elf, but it means jack. A blood elf can fell any one of them, as can a human, and we know blood elves are capable of incredible power, doesn't matter if their foe is a 10,000 year old night elf or a 30,000 year old Eredar or dragon.

Being less or lower in Warcraft may seem worse, but usually it's better and that shows there is more to it for the weaker the race appears, it seems like they have more cunning and more adaptability even if they have les power and less knowledge innately, not to mention they are capable of gaining said power and knowledge they need and seem to be more driven to do so.. their in general higher spirit is why usually they triumph over these older people. The young are just more determined and fiery, this is their strength, the old have ore experience and knowledge which is the counter, but they have less fire and will.

Who actually really is better? You're just looking on paper and desperately wishing for something that is not, for blood elves to somehow be greater on paper, but they aren't. What you fail to see is that on paper counts for shit, and always has. Why the feck are you jealous or insecure about night elves, for all their power and knowledge look at them.. one group avoided anything to do with magic for millennia, and the other two major groups with all their knowledge, hid themselves in cities till their corruption nearly destroyed them, and now have gained some sense that blood elves have had for 7,000 years.

Do you want to be more proud of blood elves based on magical capability the likes of which Night elves clearly have more or on the fact that despite their disadvantage, they do just as well and often triumph against said night elves or any other enemy. A blood elf isn't thinking .. oo this Eredar or this Nigh elf has way more power, oo they have the Nightwell or Sargeras empowering them , I can't, they have so much lost knowledge... nope, he goes straight in, uses what he has and beats the arrogant fucker down, with his less capacity, less knowledge and less age.

having less age, less knowledge and less innate power doesn't make you worse, in fact it often stands you in better stead as the older ones over rely on their knowledge and skills, and don't seem to read the situation as quickly...while san immortal may not suffer from slower reflexes with age, much power and and knowledge does seem to breed something even more divesting.. it's called ARROGANCE, over confidence, pride and its far more crippling than old age and slow reflexes.

It is what it is, you or any human or any race for that matter even one such as orc, have nothing to be ashamed off.

[The Stormbringer]

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere else in the thread, but how would y'all feel about Alliance High Elves (and Horde Ogres) in a Classic+ expansion?

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Right, so more Warlock based lore for the Blood Elves and have the Blood Elves be the elves who control the "fel" scene.

Blood Elves, Orcs and Eredar would be good bets to have.
Shinfel is a great character and she deserves to return to the story and make Quel'Thalas' Sanctum Guild great again. The fact that she was alone was targeted by the Legion says a lot about her power.

Blood Elf / Quel'Thalas Fel progression shouldn't factor night elves in. At all.

[Alanar]

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere else in the thread, but how would y'all feel about Alliance High Elves (and Horde Ogres) in a Classic+ expansion?

Couldnt care less.

[Mace]

[QUOTE=Tanaria;54273676]

No clue what your even talking about.

Really tanaria? i'm trying to say blodo elves are as good as night elve,s and you are not wrong in thinking they are better even if I would disagree is what I'm saying.

Fel stuff for Elves should primarily just be on the Blood Elves, like nature and elune is just on the Night Elves.
It goes back to what Blizzard said about them being a very magical race. Fel, Arcane and Light is a perfect combination and perfectly encapsulates the Blood Elves.

Tanaria, blood elves are a magical race, because night elves are a magical race, blood elves are derived from night elves and are a more humanised elven race, this is why night elves are made to appear even more magical Their arcane usage is more extreme, their nature usage more extreme, their fel usage more extreme. However this doesn't mean that blood elves aren't magical and cannot grow to match night elves. The whole point of playable characters is that the heroes can rise to the highest height regardless of what their race is either good at or believed capable. Partly because blizzard doesn't like you feeling that you're better than another player because of your race, but because of your skills [everyone has a fair chance]. Yet, they neither want every race to be the same, so while an individual can rise to any level, races can be at very different stages, states and varying strengths in multiple areas. So every race has something incredible about them, at lest one or if a bigger race, several areas about them - they want you to feel special in a race for the things about that race.. and so they give those race things, different things, or rather different combinations and then different expressions of those things within themselves. But to be honest it's more the story and aesthetics that is the biggest distinguishing factor for races, not who is better at fel or arcane. Elves do have the magic card, this is why high elves and night elves have many things in common

Humans do it all the time, just because on the whole they are less magically juiced up than elves on average hasn't stopped human sorcerers rising tot he top of the ladder. Magical greats are Azshara, Illidan, Aegewyn, Medivh - Khadgar, Jaina, other less well known greats at magic are Prince Faronids, Antonidas, Rommath, Kael'thas, Elisande, Mordant Evenshade. Aethas Sunreaver, Anasterian Sunstrider, Darth'remar, Xavius.


Fel stuff can never be primarily just blood elves, because Orcs, Night elves, Eredar were already set up quite great with them before the blood elves got into it. After all, it the night elves via Illidan who teach the blood elves Fel, and his Fel usage is a match to the legion lords themselves who are Eredar, i.e. Draenei folk. Not to mention the orcs and the likes of Gul'dan and the shadow Council who were the driving the force of the orcs that nearly conquered Azeroth (EK only at the time).

Blood elves can rise to be great at fel, but they can never be the only ones good at it , they were added to it. Night elves are no longer the only one great at nature, Tauren were added, then Worgen who have it in their stability make up, Trolls too. Because night elves are great it, when eventually Nightborne, blood elves and void elves can be druids, they will be great it because of that connection.

Blizzard do not restrict much to one race. Much of the Elune magic, while we know it's the hallmark of the kaldorei preistesses and shal'dorei ones now, is actually available to many of the races through the druid class, so while not all of it is shared, a powerful piece is.

Elune no longer sits as just the goddess of the night elves, many worlds we are told worship her which makes sense if she actually is one, and on Azeroth, the Thalassian elves may have rejected her, but do you think void elves won't be drawn to her once more? Already we know both Nightborne and some Worgen already do her thing.. but Priesthood is not unique to night elves, just that star/moon magic.

Star moon magic is the part of their magecrat, priestcraft as well as druidcraft that is unique to them only. It is the only thing that is. Nature magic isn't unique to them and it is in the night elf version of their classes . But Star/moon magic is a part of ARCANE magic. So it's not arcane magic that is unique to night elves, even though they are the ones that started the mage class, but it's the prolific use of the satrs and moon that is.

What you are asking for for Fel to be unique to blood elves is like asking for ARCANE magic to be unique to night elves, or nature magic to be, - blizzard just haven't done this Tanaria. Maybe a certain portion of fel magic can be unique to blood elves.. but star magic was given to night elves as part of their inception, and there from the start. This would be added to blood elves. but for just fel magic? you saying it should be removed from night elven demon hunters, from Draenei man'ari Eredar, form orcs? it's too late, it's already in their lore, we going to some how burn the ability out of them and say they no longer can so blood elves can be unique? This is not how blizzard makes races unique. Please note how they do it. It's only elf players, and blood elf players that seem to do this, first it was nature magic should be a night elf thing only while arcane magic a blood elf thing only - not even thinking that this would mean erasing night elf lore, and cutting off blood elves from other things, not to mention how do you account for humans, forsaken , trolls and others who can now use the magic? Blizzard stepped away from one class or magic type only available to one race. They won't go back.


It is also not universally popular, you people like @Rhlor very adamant that blood elves have no part in fel or undeath despite the lore. He likes the high elf version of them. When blizzard did give them fel and mostly walked it back - (we don't even see Rommath use it, and it only reappeared with demon hunters) there was no outcry for it.

Blood elves already got a fel infusion for them, we could have used that to claim their dominance, but it was walked back, and on the forums the blood elf fans are divided. Fans like yourself and @Ardensao are all for it, but equally there are others who entirely deny it.

Look I'm not saying blood elves shouldn't, just that they wouldn't be given this. Not at last without another "evolution" i.e. mutation like happened

[Schwert]

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere else in the thread, but how would y'all feel about Alliance High Elves (and Horde Ogres) in a Classic+ expansion?

Might actually play Classic for that.

[Mace]

Right, so more Warlock based lore for the Blood Elves and have the Blood Elves be the elves who control the "fel" scene.

Blood Elves, Orcs and Eredar would be good bets to have.
Shinfel is a great character and she deserves to return to the story and make Quel'Thalas' Sanctum Guild great again. The fact that she was alone was targeted by the Legion says a lot about her power.

Blood Elf / Quel'Thalas Fel progression shouldn't factor night elves in. At all.

So when you say control the "fel scene"... you mean dominate it? In what way? explain. where does that leave races that have powerful fel usage in them, like orcs through warlocks and shadow council, night elves through demon hunters, and Draenei through the man'ari Eredar we can now play?

You mean dominate in numbers or dominate in power/skill? Because i can get behind the former, but not the latter.

I'm fully aware that there are very few night elven arcane mages and wielders though the proportion is much larger after the War of thorns, and they are still a smaller fraction amongst their people and their arts not widespread like it is amongst the blood elves.. however those few are extremely highly skilled and knowledgeable - we have the lore to prove it..whether they be Shen'dralar Highborne, Moonguard or more recently arcane returned/trained Darnassian. but I would agree that the arcane is more prevalent in blood elf society and more commonly used and looked to. It dominates the scene there, whereas for the night elves it doesn't.

Same with fel, fel is not dominant amongst the night elves, but the night elven Illidari that wield it do so very powerfully, enough to be the primary agents that ended the legion, I would never say blood elves surpass them, but I could agree that blood elves match them. Illidan is something else, he is an individual class leader. But the lack of any notable night elf warlock community to me tells me this is more prevalent amongst blood elves, and blood elves have that fel infusion from TFT/TBc, this doesn't mean that blood elf demon hunters have an advantage over night elf ones, because the fel infusion in a demon hunter makes the on in the blood elf faction be like a drop of water to an ocean.. yet perhaps because of this blood elves have a greater predilection to fel.. except blizzard said it's now nearly gone from them. so.. but even so, they have more warlocks and that is within blood elf society.. At last the Illidari is a faction of it's own, but night elf warlocks as far as I know (haven't checked their lore out yet) are just individuals, so it's not a racial thing for them, only the demon hunters are. However as Xavius, Azshara, Satyrs and Illidari prove, night elves can also be exceptionally great at using fel when they do.

[Schwert]

Fel hasn't been a major theme for Blood Elves since the Sunwell reignited.
The aesthetic and feel was cool, but it hasn't been a focus for far far longer than it was at this point. It's not their thing anymore. Sunwell is holy / arcane.

Not even sure why people can't move on at this point.

[Tanaria]

So when you say control the "fel scene"... you mean dominate it? In what way? explain. where does that leave races that have powerful fel usage in them, like orcs through warlocks and shadow council, night elves through demon hunters, and Draenei through the man'ari Eredar we can now play?

You mean dominate in numbers or dominate in power/skill? Because i can get behind the former, but not the latter.

I'm fully aware that there are very few night elven arcane mages and wielders though the proportion is much larger after the War of thorns, and they are still a smaller fraction amongst their people and their arts not widespread like it is amongst the blood elves.. however those few are extremely highly skilled and knowledgeable - we have the lore to prove it..whether they be Shen'dralar Highborne, Moonguard or more recently arcane returned/trained Darnassian. but I would agree that the arcane is more prevalent in blood elf society and more commonly used and looked to. It dominates the scene there, whereas for the night elves it doesn't.

Same with fel, fel is not dominant amongst the night elves, but the night elven Illidari that wield it do so very powerfully, enough to be the primary agents that ended the legion, I would never say blood elves surpass them, but I could agree that blood elves match them. Illidan is something else, he is an individual class leader. But the lack of any notable night elf warlock community to me tells me this is more prevalent amongst blood elves, and blood elves have that fel infusion from TFT/TBc, this doesn't mean that blood elf demon hunters have an advantage over night elf ones, because the fel infusion in a demon hunter makes the on in the blood elf faction be like a drop of water to an ocean.. yet perhaps because of this blood elves have a greater predilection to fel.. except blizzard said it's now nearly gone from them. so.. but even so, they have more warlocks and that is within blood elf society.. At last the Illidari is a faction of it's own, but night elf warlocks as far as I know (haven't checked their lore out yet) are just individuals, so it's not a racial thing for them, only the demon hunters are. However as Xavius, Azshara, Satyrs and Illidari prove, night elves can also be exceptionally great at using fel when they do.

I'm not interested in what the night elves do, to be frank.

This is about Blood Elves getting something that is ONLY for them, as far as the Elves go, since Night Elves and Void Elves already have arcs which are just for them.
Fel is the best course to go down because of Shinfel, the Sanctum and the visible use of warlock practices around Silvermoon.

Shinfel was the Legion's targeted member of the Black Harvest, because she is that powerful as a Warlock.
The Sanctum Guild still operates within Silvermoon and this is the only known guild for any race.

Kayn Sunfury and the Illidari return to Quel'Thalas, along with Shinfel could be what is needed to bring the Blood Elves out of this boring stalemate they find themselves in.
Shinfel bringing Kael'thas back to co-lead the Sanctum, along with Kayn and the Illidari - it won't turn the Blood Elves into a fel-based race, but it would give them their own individuality which they sorely need right now. To me, Fel is the answer.

All other arcs are shared with the other Elves, like Arcane and Faith Worship, but Night Elves and Void Elves have Druidism, Elune and Void Magic as their own themes. It's time for the Blood Elves to stand out and be something on their own and being the Elven Warlocks of Azeroth is the best call for them.

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Fel hasn't been a major theme for Blood Elves since the Sunwell reignited.
The aesthetic and feel was cool, but it hasn't been a focus for far far longer than it was at this point. It's not their thing anymore. Sunwell is holy / arcane.

Not even sure why people can't move on at this point.

They did move on, but we've still seen Blood Elf Warlocks around and the Sanctum Guild is still in operation within Quel'Thalas.

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SNIP

Arcane, as per the Mage class can never be just for the night elves then.

If Blood Elves can be the Elven Warlocks of Azeroth, along with Orcs and Man'ari, then night elves should NEVER be able to have ANY major scene with being Mages.

It's really not fair how Alliance Elf fanatics dictate to what Blood Elves can have. Why are you so threatened by Blood Elves, being the Elf Warlock race? With Orcs and Man'ari being the others?
Fel Magic was clearly visible in Silvermoon and they have one of the most powerful Warlocks, whom the Legion targeted. All of this is fact.

The basis is all there for a great Quel'Thalas update, with fel magic being their elven thing - just like nelfs and velfs have their own things.

[Mace]

I'm not interested in what the night elves do, to be frank.

This is about Blood Elves getting something that is ONLY for them, as far as the Elves go,

That’s rich seeing this is a high elf discussion and you are the one insisting blood elves dominate other factions.

since Night Elves and Void Elves already have arcs which are just for them.

Which you do realise Fel magic and the Illidari is one of the major arcs for them right?

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They did move on, but we've still seen Blood Elf Warlocks around and the Sanctum Guild is still in operation within Quel'Thalas.

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Arcane, as per the Mage class can never be just for the night elves then.

Will comment on the rest soon

[Tanaria]

That’s rich seeing this is a high elf discussion and you are the one insisting blood elves dominate other factions.



Which you do realise Fel magic and the Illidari is one of the major arcs for them right?

No it isn't.

Get that through your skull. You see, your being a bully again and then will cry victim.

You are literally denying a future story with a theme, only for the blood elves (along with Orcs and Man'ari) because YOU DONT WANT THE BLOOD ELVES TO BE UNIQUE! ARE YOU THAT DAMN SCARED OF THIS RACE GETTING IT'S OWN INDIVIDULAITY

So what if the bastard night elves don't have a Warlock / Fel focus? They've already got Elune, Druids, Wardens and Mages. Take your pick..
Give the Blood elves that Warlock / Fel focus. Bring the Fel Crystals to empower the Ruins of Silvermoon. Have Kayn return with the Illidari. Have Shinfel as one of the best and well known Warlocks on the Horde. If necessary, if both factions need a Warlock's call, then (even in a neutral setting) Shinfel is the one they call for. She is the first one who springs to mind. Return the Warlock focus to the Horde, if needs be.

[Mace]

No it isn't.

Get that through your skull. You see, your being a bully again and then will cry victim.

You are literally denying a future story with a theme, only for the blood elves (along with Orcs and Man'ari) because YOU DONT WANT THE BLOOD ELVES TO BE UNIQUE! ARE YOU THAT DAMN SCARED OF THIS RACE GETTING IT'S OWN INDIVIDULAITY

So what if the bastard night elves don't have a Warlock / Fel focus? They've already got Elune, Druids, Wardens and Mages. Take your pick..
Give the Blood elves that Warlock / Fel focus. Bring the Fel Crystals to empower the Ruins of Silvermoon. Have Kayn return with the Illidari. Have Shinfel as one of the best and well known Warlocks on the Horde. If necessary, if both factions need a Warlock's call, then (even in a neutral setting) Shinfel is the one they call for. She is the first one who springs to mind. Return the Warlock focus to the Horde, if needs be.

Firstly you don't need to shout. Calm down. take a deep breath. Count to 10. Relax.

Okay now. Secondly I don't think you realise what a major facet of a race is.

Just because the Illidari and fel are not part of or do not play a large role in the main night elf group does not mean they are not a large facet of the race and it's lore.

The LEGION is a large part of the race and it's lore. Illidan, his journey, his creation of the demon hunter class, is a huge part of the NIGHT ELF STORY.. get it, the NIGHT ELF.

He doesn't need to be huge in the current night elf society for this to be true.. Illidan takes as much time as Tyrande or Malfurion or Azshara in the night elf tale, and he is certainly a major par of the campaign. As he is night elven, from and a part of the night elf race, in a night elf story, it is all part of the night elf race, whether he is an exile, the only one, or has an entire faction of night elves of his own, that then later go on to train other races like blood elves and broken., fel orcs, naga and Shivarra. Malfurion training Tauren, Worgen and trolls in druidism doesn't make him less night elven, nor druidism and nature a less significant part of the story of the race whether it is just him doing it, or a whole faction of night elves doing it.. It wasn't less night elven in the Legion period of the pre-sundering era when so few night elves used it any longer, than it is now when lots of races use it or in the earlier parts of the pre-sundering era when a lot more night elves were a part of it. Get it?

Do not be fooled, learn to see beyond what you want to see, and see what is there. The Arcane is a huge part of the night elves too.. it doesn't need to be a major part of the operations of one of the night elf factions (even if it is the main one or the playable one ) for this to be true. .. it has dominated the entire race.. all the groups the Shen'dralar, the Darnassians, the Nightborne, The Farondis for 15,000 years.. whether they've used it prolifically as the main agent of of their society or have banned it indiscriminately in order to protect it, (the well I mean) and the world. It is at the heart of them, .. which is not surprising seeing they are dark elves with a forest elf twist and not the other way round...

https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html



Both their priesthood and druids are full of arcane spell usage and energies, their goddess Elune they manifest offensive magic through that sphere. Their moonwells are from the Well of eternity which has been the heart of their existence and behind every purpose they have had for 15,000 years.. yes, this includes the long vigil, or do you not realise it was protecting the Well of Eternity from discovery and usage is what the main purpose of the Long vigil was.. the entire era for the main faction was arcane centred, and the other groups that still used it in Feralas and Suramar? it continued to be their societies main power source and function.

The use of something and it's important when trying to figure out the main things a race is about is spelled out quite clearly, like very very clearly. and shown. But if you are only a casual fan of it, that just goes by the few scenes you saw when you tried out the night elf and never bothered to actually pay attention to their story, you might miss all of this. However if you played Legion, you should know. You should know with the fel , there are night elves, with nature there are night elves, with the arcane and magic, there are night elves and with Elune there are night elves. Those are there areas.

It is very clear that when they made the night elves, they wanted the ARCANE, NATURE, ELUNE and Fel magic to be a huge part of them. They wanted them archers and ranged units with spell power. It's even clear form the WC3 manual, which you would have seen first before the War of the Ancients Trilogy novels that spell it out in detail.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/


Screaming at me to "get it through my skull", thick or otherwise, and yelling about blood elves doesn't change that. it may be frustrating to point this out to you if you are not interested in and don't want to believe that night elves can be good at anything, but they are - whether you like it or not, want it or not. Remember it's not just made for Tanaria. Tanaria's Warcraft

Remember, blood elves come from night elves, they get this from night elves. And whatever blood elves have, high elves also have, and the void elves that came from them. You cannot forget that either. They are ELVES. This comes with certain expectations. Those who expect savage creatures entirely feral in nature, moderately intelligent and only capable of managing one type of magic, but are largely magicless and war like have come to the wrong racial group. If you expecting grotesque, brutal - that's not any elf. If you expecting "not beautiful", or ugly , that's also not elf. - there are other races for all those things. And last I checked, night elves ARE elves, in act the most "elven" and purely or fully so of them all. Never forget that and never be surprised that they would excel at things other elves excel at and likely have more things to them. This is by design.. it's nothing to be jealous of, with your beautiful blood elf models and your beautiful elven forest and elven city.. and clear magical mastery in many areas too (light, arcane, void, fel- and though they haven't made use of the available knowledge, they are clearly adept at nature magic when they choose it - as the Botanica instance surely shows]. And it's not just magic they are good at, they are also great at range damage and fire power, very resourceful, intelligent and charming. Why you have to balk at, or be upset at night elves being good at similar magic fields is beyond me. Night elves are distinct from blood elves in on major way.. they are nocturnal.. blood elves are just a subset of the night elf, it's fitting they have something's but not everything.. it's how the lore is made.

You have nothing to be jealous of, it's like choosing to be a gnome fan, then being jealous that dwarves have more things going on, or that humans are taller and bigger It's irrational. If it's the case, then like dwarves, or like humans, or like all 3 of them.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

I don't care.

I don't care about them coming from night elves because they aren't important to the current blood elf story.

Give blood elves independence from the other elf races.

[Mace]

You are literally denying a future story with a theme, only for the blood elves (along with Orcs and Man'ari) because YOU DONT WANT THE BLOOD ELVES TO BE UNIQUE! ARE YOU THAT DAMN SCARED OF THIS RACE GETTING IT'S OWN INDIVIDULAITY

Well what is it, them only for blood elves? or a theme for blood elves, orcs and Eredar types? So for all the fel wielding races except for the night elves...

You may not like to hear it, but I am not denying you anything. Look at how upset you are getting by me simply reminding you that night elves are in there too. And trying to show you that his shouldn't surprise you either. Night elves are the purest i.e. fullest or most wholely elven of the elves. They define what elf is in world of Warcraft first. The race starts with them and everything attached to it stems from them -this was by design. Every branch of magic elves use and are good at, first started with them. nature, arcane, divine (light and void), fel - they are already there. It is from them the other elf groups that we all like come form, and they (the night elves) are not transformations. deviations, alterations or mutations of the race. The other elves are just slightly deviated versions in various ways with minor changes to them. They get their predilections from their night elf root.

Thalassian elves biggest deviation from night elves is by being diurnal, and in fact, this is the main point of distinction between them. Not nature love and nature magic, nor being brutal sometimes and ruthless. Yes there are other differences, like religion and culture variations, but by far the biggest one is the life cycle, this is what sets them apart and why the other group is called "Night" elf.. High elf is not the distinguishing factor because there are high born elves amongst the night elves too, wilding high magic for all you desire. fel is not the distinction either, because yes , night elves did that first too and in fact taught the less corrupted high elves who were now calling themselves blood elves. It's not void either, we know the Shen'dralar dealt with them, the Order of Elune and all their secrets, wit the mistresses of pain and the night warrior wielded void magic too.

Their differences are largely in their stories, their history, how they got to where they are now which determines there friendships and what they get up to.. those are their real differences that and their art assets, their appearances and they are minor differences, because they are elves, they are not meant to be huge differences. you are trading a flavour of ice cream for another, not trading ice cream for cake when you pick this one. You shouldn't expect a monster race appearance for an elf and go ah, this is night elf, and then only the "normal" looking ones are blood elves. As if to say that blood elves are the only true elves because nigh t elves are monsters. They aren't going to be you know. That's why they are called night elf. Not Night troll or night worgen, or night orc, or night zombie.

Sure you might like nature magic in the night elves, but you might also like arcane magic in the night elves too, or fel magic through the demon hunters. Do the blood elves have some of that? Yes a little bit as far as nature and fel are concerned, though nature will become playable in a little while , and fel and blood elves can wield fel like night elves can because they can be Illidari too, although they can do as warlocks, which night elves could not become till recently.

I could go on a lot more, what will it take for you to see and just not be jealous or angry? You truly have no need to be. Why do you think I like all elves? I recognise it's the race type, and it's that race type I truly like. The different types are just flavours, and flavours I actually happen to really like. The only reason I side more often with the alliance elves is largely because they have a wider scope and their morality is better in the story, that's all, okay it might be a bit because they are also the underdogs currently on the elf scale.

I didn't cool down on the Nightborne because they were in the horde I cooled down because blizzard wrote them to go to the horde and in such an unfair manner.. it made Thalyssra look hypocritical by choosing to side with conquerors after touting herself as a defender. She wasn't written to part in the war of thorns thankfully, that would have bene very awkward and likely a deal breaker for me, but she was never written to openly oppose it from the get go, this made her seem cowardly and sneaky, very different from a 7.0 self. Then when she meets Jaina in Stormwind, this 10,000 year old ancient cowers before her and evidently seems to out magic her. Then they write the race to only be staring moon calf eyes at blood elves, none of the caveat of brining night elves to the horde even though their presence there is exactly that. You don't see their kaldorei culture distinguishing them and it should - that era of kaldorei culture is far more stringent then the blood elves' high elven culture adhered to, full of stiff protocol. Their priests are priests of Elune, their goddess yet their religion and priest class has simply not showed up at all, or the druidic elements and nature magic acceleration through the Arcan'dor is ait's as if all their is to the Nightborne since the end of the Nighthold is blood elves.

I like none of it. Lore matters to me and can the story you tell for the races and what they do can change or at last affect the levels of affection for them. It's depressing. and it's not because it's on the horde, it's because of how it's developed. However I do like the character customisation improvements.. I'm not happy with the lore of the night elves either, but that's not for their morality in game, it's for all the losses and devastation they keep writing for them and the weakness so at odds to the lore they wrote concerning them - see the difference?

[Tanaria]

SNIP

I don't care about night elves.

I want an independent charge story just for Blood Elves, alongside Orcs and Man'ari.
Fel Magic, with Shinfel Blightsworn, Kayn Sunfury, even Kael'thas Sunstrider - it has the makings for the Blood Elves.

Night Elves have their Elune, Druidism and Arcane thing.
Blood Elves should have Arcane, Light and Fel - being the only Elves on Azeroth who are proficient enough with Fel Magic. Shinfel Blightsworn is the most top tier Elven Warlock current on Azeroth. Use her for this.

The character of Shinfel isn't influenced by some random night elf npcs. She's a Blood elf Warlock and she is one of the best Elven Warlocks - to be targeted by Kil'jaedon...Blizzard need to use her and for her to make a grand return to Quel'Thalas. Perhaps be Silvermoon's "Grand Warlock."

[Mace]

I don't care.

I don't care about them coming from night elves because they aren't important to the current blood elf story.

Give blood elves independence from the other elf races.

I see, you didn't read a word. That can't happen, Blood elves are ELVES.. let me remind you what you skipped reading above.

Remember, blood elves come from night elves, they get this from night elves. And whatever blood elves have, high elves also have, and the void elves that came from them. You cannot forget that either. They are ELVES. This comes with certain expectations. Those who expect savage creatures entirely feral in nature, moderately intelligent and only capable of managing one type of magic, but are largely magicless and war like have come to the wrong racial group. If you expecting grotesque, brutal - that's not any elf. If you expecting "not beautiful", or ugly , that's also not elf. - there are other races for all those things. And last I checked, night elves ARE elves, in act the most "elven" and purely or fully so of them all. Never forget that and never be surprised that they would excel at things other elves excel at and likely have more things to them. This is by design.. it's nothing to be jealous of, with your beautiful blood elf models and your beautiful elven forest and elven city.. and clear magical mastery in many areas too (light, arcane, void, fel- and though they haven't made use of the available knowledge, they are clearly adept at nature magic when they choose it - as the Botanica instance surely shows]. And it's not just magic they are good at, they are also great at range damage and fire power, very resourceful, intelligent and charming. Why you have to balk at, or be upset at night elves being good at similar magic fields is beyond me. Night elves are distinct from blood elves in on major way.. they are nocturnal.. blood elves are just a subset of the night elf, it's fitting they have something's but not everything.. it's how the lore is made.

You have nothing to be jealous of, it's like choosing to be a gnome fan, then being jealous that dwarves have more things going on, or that humans are taller and bigger It's irrational. If it's the case, then like dwarves, or like humans, or like all 3 of them.

You should decide whether it is worth sticking ot this need for blood elves to be some super special snowflake. THeya re just a flavour of elf. Elf is the race, and it is the snowflake. Blizzard tried to make every race group their own snowflake, with all their variations. Humans have humans, kul'tirans, Worgen, Forsaken as their won flavours, but yet when you compare humans to troolls, to elves, to orcs as a race now, and notj ust a faciton, yeh, they're pretty unique each of those.

However blodo elves are part of the elf group. ANd in warcraft the Human and elf group are the most extensive groups there.. even though the orcs also have huge lore

We play:
Humans (split in 4 factions)
Elves (splint in 4 factions)
Orcs (split in two)
Trolls (in 2 - but 3 types playable)
Draenei (2)
Pandarens
Dwarves (2 - but 3 types playable)
Gnomes (2)
Goblins & Vulpera
Dracthyr

That's 10 unique races. But if you add in the flavours you can now add blood elf, night elf, void elf, nightborne), Kul'tiran, Worgen, Undead, Human, etc.

If you want Blood elves to be on their own, they have to stop being called elves, and change to something else, like what my brother was suggesting in his "fix the alliance theme" topic. But you certainly didn't like that. This way they'll no longer be elves and can be something else. Mabye turn them into Vampires - that would be special snowflake for sure. ^^

But I actually like blood elves, i prefer them to be in the TFT form, heavy on Fel and arcane - not light. with Light, arcane and forest ranging going back to high elves. But alas, we have what we have.

[Ielenia]

Tauren are spiritual not shamanistic.

They are shamanistic.

Darkspear got forced to drop their evil ways by Thrall.

Dude, the Darkspears were basically kicked from Stranglethorn Vale because all the other troll tribes would pick on them. They were never evil.

[Tanaria]

I see, you didn't read a word. That can't happen, Blood elves are ELVES.. let me remind you what you skipped reading above.

It can happen and it should. The Alliance ones have their own thing, so Blood Elves should.

Having the most powerful Elven Warlock currently, should involve a more Warlock-infused story for the Sin'dorei, using her to spearhead it and give them some bigger and better magical prowess, which is different from the others.

This is more about your made-up headcanon and I don't buy into a night elf fan's headcanon about how the other races should be.
It's not that it can't happen. It's more about you not wanting it to happen.

[Mace]

It can happen and it should. The Alliance ones have their own thing, so Blood Elves should.

Having the most powerful Elven Warlock currently, should involve a more Warlock-infused story for the Sin'dorei, using her to spearhead it and give them some bigger and better magical prowess, which is different from the others.

This is more about your made-up headcanon and I don't buy into a night elf fan's headcanon about how the other races should be.
It's not that it can't happen. It's more about you not wanting it to happen.

I think you have gotten a bit too hung up on up on this this, especially your sense of what is fair.. which is ironically since you criticise me for pointing out Night elves are owed something back for losing Suramar, the Nightborne and Teldrassil. or void elves are owed their own zone and raid tier - remember that topic? You spend so much time convincing me they are owed nothing, because you don't want them to have anything, then go out of your way to literally demand they get something to make them more of a special snowflake.

Look.. I'm actually not opposed to blood elves getting a direction that makes them a lot fel like. It won't be Illidari - that's already a night elf thing which blood elves are a part of, but you're not going to lose night elves on that one, but it can be something similar to what the void elves got for being void. I don't think it's necessary though, you do that sort of thing for a new allied race or sub-race, you don't' really convert a main race that has multiple facets to hone in powerfully on one. What about the fans who liked the other bits you are now discarding and it was their reason for picking blood elves or even buying TBC?


But then who am I to say huh? They honed in powerfully on the light with Liadrin, the SUnwell, Naaru etc, but it wasn't at the expense of the arcane or the other skills of blood elves. They didn't make them Lightforged, although they could have that option. Perhaps fel forged for blood elves? Yet still even with that, I don't think it would be a good idea to make all the blood elves felforged. So if not felforged would then be a sub-group of it's own that's part of the blood elves, akin to an allied race. But I wonder what would happen if people start saying the felforged are not blood elves, like those that said the Nightborne were not night elves.. all because they come of distinctive to how they had perceived blood elves before.. never mind all the signs of blood elf fel mastery though the Illidari and the warlocks under Illidan. And let's face it, the Illidari are already fleforged elves essentially - felforged night elves and blood elves, so how would you distinguish them? See the problem? It's already ben done. Be thankfully blood elves were picked to join night elves in the demon hunter story -seeing how you like it so much and liek hte blood elves.

I can just see the same arguments over and over again.

[Tanaria]

I think you have gotten a bit too hung up on up on this this, especially your sense of what is fair.. which is ironically since you criticise me for pointing out Night elves are owed something back for losing Suramar, the Nightborne and Teldrassil. or void elves are owed their own zone and raid tier - remember that topic? You spend so much time convincing me they are owed nothing, because you don't want them to have anything, then go out of your way to literally demand they get something to make them more of a special snowflake.

Look.. I'm actually not opposed to blood elves getting a direction that makes them a lot fel like. It won't be Illidari - that's already a night elf thing, but i can be something similar to what the void elves got for being void. I don't think it's necessary though, you do that sort of thing for a new allied race or sub-race, you don't' really convert a main race that has multiple facets to hone in powerfully on one. What about the fans who liked the other bits you are now discarding and it was their reason for picking blood elves or even buying TBC?


But then who am I to say huh? They honed in powerfully on the light with Liadrin, the SUnwell, Naaru etc, but it wasn't at the expense of the arcane or the other skills of blood elves. They didn't make them Lightforged, although they could have that option. Perhaps fel forged for blood elves? Yet still even with that, I don't think it would be a good idea to make all the blood elves felforged. So if not felforged would then be a sub-group of it's own that's part of the blood elves, akin to an allied race. But I wonder what would happen if people start saying the felforged are not blood elves, like those that said the Nightborne were not night elves.. all because they come of distinctive to how they had perceived blood elves before.. never mind all the signs of blood elf fel mastery though the Illidari and the warlocks under Illidan. And let's face it, the Illidari are already fleforged elves essentially - felforged night elves and blood elves, so how would you distinguish them? See the problem? It's already ben done. Be thankfully blood elves were picked to join night elves in the demon hunter story -seeing how you like it so much and liek hte blood elves.

I can just see the same arguments over and over again.

Your the only one talking about the Illidari. They have nothing to do with this.

I only mention Kayn as an overall "fel" based story for the blood elves; but a Warlock overall story is better. Shinfel is the main character I'd like for this. She isn't involved with a night elf.

I do think the Illidari should go to their respective nations with Kayn and Kor'vas involved with the Blood Elves and Night Elves respectively, but as far as Warlocks go - it's the Blood Elves who have a respectable named character with a lot of power behind her. Warlock stuff should go to the three races where fel and demonic magic was most visible. Man'ari, Orcs and Blood Elves. Yes, it's shared, but it gives the Blood Elves an arc which is akin to the Night Elf Druidism. It's something specific and is only for them, but also lends itself to them being a magical / sorcery based race, as per their introduction.

The Sunwell being part Light and Arcane, doesn't stop Shinfel from being Shinfel.

In case you've forgotten - this is the character in question:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shinfel_Blightsworn

EDIT:
Also - a female leading the Blood Elf Warlocks would lend itself nicely to the Warcraft 3 Sorceress units. A story where these women have taken their advanced knowledge and mastery of the arcane to new heights with their control over fel magic.