Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

@Ardenaso In Metzen's story, peoples relocate to other lands only after apocalyptic, doomsday event.

- The Orcs of Draenor forcibly relocated to Azeroth after the Legion/Warlocks/Shadow Council ruined their homeworld with Fel.

- The Humans of Stormwind relocated to Lordaeron after the Orcish Horde destroyed their kingdom in the First War.

- The Humans of Lordaeron relocated to Theramore after the Undead Scourge and the Legion destroyed their kingdom in the Third War.

- The High Elves relocated to Dalaran, and then Outland, after the Undead Scourge destroyed their kingdom in the Third War.

- The Draenei of Argus relocated to Draenor after the Legion destroyed their homeworld long ago.

As you can see, in Metzen's Story, peoples only relocate when their original homeland is truly, undeniably, and unmistakably lost.

If the High Elves relocate to Feralas, they will do so with the Blood Elves after the Void has finished what Arthas started and completely and finally destroyed Quel'Thalas.

Because that is how Metzen write his stories.

"Oh we just decided one day to relocate to Feralas for literally no reason!" is how Danuser writes his stories.

[Grazrug]

@Ardenaso In Metzen's story, peoples relocate to other lands only after apocalyptic, doomsday event.

- The Orcs of Draenor forcibly relocated to Azeroth after the Legion/Warlocks/Shadow Council ruined their homeworld with Fel.

- The Humans of Stormwind relocated to Lordaeron after the Orcish Horde destroyed their kingdom in the First War.

- The Humans of Lordaeron relocated to Theramore after the Undead Scourge and the Legion destroyed their kingdom in the Third War.

- The High Elves relocated to Dalaran, and then Outland, after the Undead Scourge destroyed their kingdom in the Third War.

- The Draenei of Argus relocated to Draenor after the Legion destroyed their homeworld long ago.

As you can see, in Metzen's Story, peoples only relocate when their original homeland is truly, undeniably, and unmistakably lost.

If the High Elves relocate to Feralas, they will do so with the Blood Elves after the Void has finished what Arthas started and completely and finally destroyed Quel'Thalas.

Because that is how Metzen write his stories.

"Oh we just decided one day to relocate to Feralas for literally no reason!" is how Danuser writes his stories.

no elves have any hisrotical connection to Feralas. It makes no sense. Also Blizzard is not doing perma destruction of homelands anymore considering the night elves just got a new world tree and the Forsaken are back at Tirisfal where they started.

[Alanar]

That's why reunification feels so unlikely to me. It's both because the anathema Void Elves are to the Sunwell, and how the political and ideological differences between Blood Elves and VE/HE just have kept on growing and solidifying through the years.

They would need to overcome both issues for reunification to even be possible. The first one could be addressed by just getting rid of the Sunwell, the second by making all Thalassians neutral, but I don't think either or both of them are things the playerbase wants.

I don't want elves to be neutral, I like that their ideologies have lead them to opposing factions, and as much as the faction conflict has been downplayed, the factions still exists, as well as the reasons why they align with them. At most I could see some of Quel'thalas becoming neutral and allowing elves to reside there regardless of political affiliation, but I don't think they can remove political ideology from either group at this point and pretend they are all the same.

Completely pushing it, it could become a Dalaran like situation in Silvermoon, with a joint neutral council for all Thalassians, with factioned areas in the city. It could work, but I wouldn't personally love it. IMO Silvermoon should remain Horde.

As for the Sunwell exploding, well, I kinda like that idea better IMO. Then we can use Quel'Danas as the neutral place for all elves regardless of faction and we get rid of the crutch that has been hindering the BE narrative for so long. But that's not true reunification because each group with remain on their factions, there would just be a place were faction doesn't matter. That's why I personally would like that the best.

I totally missed this post, my bad.

I think we both want to preserve whats already there and Silvermoon is still the city of the blood elves. I had the same impression of blood elf fans, that no one really super excited about being neutral, probably because there is frankly no real reason for it.

Yes, I also believe the Sunwell is blocking further progress in many ways. Mainly for blood elves, they have been flourishing ever since. They are to safe. I mean what further upgrades could a Sunwell possibly get? I think the only way is to break it down and start over. Its the only way to propel it forward. Whats interesting is the part of the "eternal spring" that holds up because of the magic of the Sunwell. If we lose the sunwell, will the area become gray or will seasons play a role from then on?

As of the other elves and the unification again, I mean its so vague and its all speculation what this actually means, but I am open to the idea of Quel'Danas being a future place for elves in some way. Quel'danas becoming a place for elves could be an option, far enough from the city and could hold some kind of special meaning for all the elves who died at the void invasion. That will become the one place, they can learn and mourn together for example. That can only happen if the Sunwell is gone or something happends there. If not I dont see the blood elves being very happy with that.

Right now tho.. I can only treat this as the usual horde and alliance coming together to fight the big bad again and it just happends to be on elf lands. If midnight is over, they could all just pack up and leave, like every other moment in the game like that. Who knows.

[Grazrug]

I totally missed this post, my bad.

I think we both want to preserve whats already there and Silvermoon is still the city of the blood elves. I had the same impression of blood elf fans, that no one really super excited about being neutral, probably because there is frankly no real reason for it.

Yes, I also believe the Sunwell is blocking further progress in many ways. Mainly for blood elves, they have been flourishing ever since. They are to safe. I mean what further upgrades could a Sunwell possibly get? I think the only way is to break it down and start over. Its the only way to propel it forward. Whats interesting is the part of the "eternal spring" that holds up because of the magic of the Sunwell. If we lose the sunwell, will the area become gray or will seasons play a role from then on?

As of the other elves and the unification again, I mean its so vague and its all speculation what this actually means, but I am open to the idea of Quel'Danas being a future place for elves in some way. Quel'danas becoming a place for elves could be an option, far enough from the city and could hold some kind of special meaning for all the elves who died at the void invasion. That will become the one place, they can learn and mourn together for example. That can only happen if the Sunwell is gone or something happends there. If not I dont see the blood elves being very happy with that.

Right now tho.. I can only treat this as the usual horde and alliance coming together to fight the big bad again and it just happends to be on elf lands. If midnight is over, they could all just pack up and leave, like every other moment in the game like that. Who knows.

Who could have guessed that turning the starting zone of a core race neutral could be met with spite and anger? Crazy right?

[Doreidorei]

Yeah, that post makes no sense. The Blood Elves "reunification" already happened at the end of TBC, when the remaining Sunfury/Kael'Thas' loyalists rejoined Theron's people.

The root problem is that the poster in question believes only the Horde should get a storyline and a new capital. Do they even know that the Alliance exists?

In fairness it's not like the opposite hasn't been true. I do plot beats with toons on both sides but I'm not going to pretend that the writing hasn't misunderstood the main complaints about split questing in BfA to largely push mostly alliance storylines on everyone.

Which is also why Quel'thalas being divided would be a stupid move - it's already not traditional horde content (and even with Demon Hunters it remains that belves are a slight plurality of the horde's playerbase, they've never been a majority even at Legion release; iirc before Legion Forsaken were still even or slightly above), making it a fully neutral plotline will only get people who don't play both sides and don't play elves to stop bothering with the game. The sin'dorei are still hosting, in the end, whether this leads to a council of three bows or not.

(also I unironically dread human RP in Silvermoon; I fully expect it to be Stormwind's dregs)

[Fyersing]

We shall see. But I think you're gonna be disappointed if you expect Blizzard to update Silvermoon and the rest of Quel'Thalas just for the Horde.

I could easily see Blizzard finally putting down a more permanent settlement for the various groups of Alliance-aligned High Elves, perhaps on the fringes of Quel'thalas, which would be killing like four birds with one stone.

[Ardenaso]

some development for the first high elf chapter in re-reforged

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I totally missed this post, my bad.

I think we both want to preserve whats already there and Silvermoon is still the city of the blood elves. I had the same impression of blood elf fans, that no one really super excited about being neutral, probably because there is frankly no real reason for it.

Yes, I also believe the Sunwell is blocking further progress in many ways. Mainly for blood elves, they have been flourishing ever since. They are to safe. I mean what further upgrades could a Sunwell possibly get? I think the only way is to break it down and start over. Its the only way to propel it forward. Whats interesting is the part of the "eternal spring" that holds up because of the magic of the Sunwell. If we lose the sunwell, will the area become gray or will seasons play a role from then on?

As of the other elves and the unification again, I mean its so vague and its all speculation what this actually means, but I am open to the idea of Quel'Danas being a future place for elves in some way. Quel'danas becoming a place for elves could be an option, far enough from the city and could hold some kind of special meaning for all the elves who died at the void invasion. That will become the one place, they can learn and mourn together for example. That can only happen if the Sunwell is gone or something happends there. If not I dont see the blood elves being very happy with that.

Right now tho.. I can only treat this as the usual horde and alliance coming together to fight the big bad again and it just happends to be on elf lands. If midnight is over, they could all just pack up and leave, like every other moment in the game like that. Who knows.

Honestly I think people are jumping the gun at Metzen's "Unify the elven tribes." It really can mean anything from "working together to protect Quel'thalas" to "complete political reunification." We really have so little info it's all just speculation, and it will be for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

I could easily see Blizzard finally putting down a more permanent settlement for the various groups of Alliance-aligned High Elves, perhaps on the fringes of Quel'thalas, which would be killing like four birds with one stone.

That really is both my guess and wish TBH. An updated Quel'thalas doesn't have to be just Horde content, even of Silvermoon remains Horde.

I can easily see the Ghostlands being revamped as a neutral zone for the expansion leveling while Eversong itself remains Horde. And specifically for the alliance Elves, it would make a lot of sense if Windrunner Spire and Village became VE/HE territory (alongside the Lighthouse in northern WPL). While Silvermoon should remain for the BE, I do think the alliance thalassians being able to return to their homeland and resettle there could be a more permanent solution to the conflict.

TBH I would have been as happy if alliance thalassians would resettle anywhere, but honestly the Ghostlands are kinda underused both narratively and in game, so in both aspects the main VE/HE hub being in there would work.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard is obviously not going to give the Horde a metropolis (Silvermoon) and the Alliance a tiny village.

To believe this, is to pretty much misunderstand Blizzard's entire philosophy regarding faction equity.

Vanilla: Alliance gets 3 cities, Horde gets 3 cities;

TBC: Alliance gets 1 city, Horde gets 1 city;

MoP: Alliance gets 1 temple; Horde gets 1 temple;

WoD: Alliance gets 1 base, Horde gets 1 base (and before that, they both got similarly-scaled fortresses);

BfA: Alliance gets 1 city, Horde gets 1 city.

Midnight: Horde gets 1 city, Alliance gets... 1 village and a tower???

Yeah, No, that is not happening. That is absolutely not how Blizzard designs the game (nor how anyone Horde-biased would design the game, really).

[Pyrophax]

Blizzard is obviously not going to give the Horde a metropolis (Silvermoon) and the Alliance a tiny village.

To believe this, is to pretty much misunderstand Blizzard's entire philosophy regarding faction equity.

Vanilla: Alliance gets 3 cities, Horde gets 3 cities;

TBC: Alliance gets 1 city, Horde gets 1 city;

MoP: Alliance gets 1 temple; Horde gets 1 temple;

WoD: Alliance gets 1 base, Horde gets 1 base (and before that, they both got similarly-scaled fortresses);

BfA: Alliance gets 1 city, Horde gets 1 city.

Midnight: Horde gets 1 city, Alliance gets... 1 village and a tower???

Yeah, No, that is not happening. That is absolutely not how Blizzard designs the game (nor how anyone Horde-biased would design the game, really).

Your major flaw in that logic - Silvermoon is not given or new city. It will be rewamped, so Alliance get "1 village and a tower", Horde get HD Silvermoon. So 1:0 to Alliance.
Also, you maybe forgot allied races, yes? Entire Island Mechagon with metropolis Mechagon, spaceship Vindicaar (lame one), Entire Blackrock. Part of dead titan Telogrus.
What Horde get? metropolis Suramar, thats true. big log Thundertotem. Thats all. Vulpera don't have capital, either Mag'Har.
So by allied race we get what - 4:2 in Alliance favor. Wish to continue? Or this arguments is not considered bc you dont like it?

[Varodoc]

Your major flaw in that logic - Silvermoon is not given or new city. It will be rewamped, so Alliance get "1 village and a tower", Horde get HD Silvermoon. So 1:0 to Alliance.

Silvermoon is a city. A village in Ghostland is not a city.

It's pretty straightforward.

Also, you maybe forgot allied races, yes?

No, because I mentioned the BfA cities, which, in case you forgot, are territory of two allied races.

All the other allied races are irrelevant as their bases are not player hubs. Suramar is not a player hub for Horde players; you can test that yourself by going to Suramar in-game on a Horde toon and seeing that there is nothing useful for the Horde.

Surely you understand the concept of gameplay/lore segregation? Suramar is literally not a player hub.

[Pyrophax]

Silvermoon is a city. A village in Ghostland is not a city.

It's pretty straightforward.

Not to me. If we talking about gameplay side - so all it takes is place there Auction, bank and proff trainers. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, because I mentioned the BfA cities, which, in case you forgot, are territory of two allied races.

All the other allied races are irrelevant as their bases are not player hubs. Suramar is not a player hub for Horde players; you can test that yourself by going to Suramar in-game on a Horde toon and seeing that there is nothing useful for the Horde.

Surely you understand the concept of gameplay/lore segregation? Suramar is literally not a player hub.

Told you, if you don't like other settlements - they don't count.
If we are talking about gameplay feature - sure. LFD, DID and VE "places" or starting locations lack attributes of capitals - Auction, bank and proff trainers.
At least they have place to call home, lorewise. Mag'hars and Vulpera don't.
Still - if we are talking gameplay features - Windrunners Spire or camp near it with Auction, bank and proff trainers will be just fine.

[Tanaria]

Not to me. If we talking about gameplay side - so all it takes is place there Auction, bank and proff trainers. Am I understanding you correctly?



Again, here we are.
I don't like other settlements - they don't count.
If we are talking about gameplay feature - sure. LFD, DID and VE "places" or starting locations lack attributes of capitals - Auction, bank and proff trainers.
At least they have place to call home, lorewise. Mag'hars and Vulpera don't.
Still - if we are talking gameplay features - Windrunners Spire or camp near it with Auction, bank and proff trainers will be just fine.

Your talking to somebody who tells us to believe that Tyrande also meant to include Suramar in the places that are sacred to the kaldorei; yet also denies the Shal'dorei leader.

So, we believe what's not in game, when it comes to the Alliance, but we don't do it when it's for the Horde.

[Alanar]

Honestly I think people are jumping the gun at Metzen's "Unify the elven tribes." It really can mean anything from "working together to protect Quel'thalas" to "complete political reunification." We really have so little info it's all just speculation, and it will be for a while.

I feel like, that's the best way to describe it. It's simply not worth the time for now, because the ideas here in general are to widespread to make much sense of it.

[Aucald]

This is a thread meant to discuss the High Elves, not the overarching faction conflict or tallies of cities, settlements, or what-have-you belonging to either faction. Let's pivot the discussion back to the actual High Elves and drop the derailing arguments about unrelated topics.

[Pyrophax]

This is a thread meant to discuss the High Elves, not the overarching faction conflict or tallies of cities, settlements, or what-have-you belonging to either faction. Let's pivot the discussion back to the actual High Elves and drop the derailing arguments about unrelated topics.

Can you clarify about which high elves?
If we gonna watch first post - it says:

When we talk about High Elves and Blood Elves, we're really talking about three distinct groups:

1. WCII elves
2. WCIII Blood Elves
3. MMO Blood Elves

So we are discussing High Elves of the Alliance as political organization or as race? Then - all of them, High Elves of the Horde (blood elves), high elves of Alliance (High elves and Void Elves)?

But before some highly-motivated fans come and start crying about "muh BE are not HE" I want to clarify - I want High Elves as neutral race only in one way - disbandment of both Alliance and Horde - its the only way to be truly neutral. If not - Horde.

Any other way will be spit on faces of Horde players.

[Aucald]

Can you clarify about which high elves?
If we gonna watch first post - it says:


So we are discussing High Elves of the Alliance as political organization or as race? Then - all of them, High Elves of the Horde (blood elves), high elves of Alliance (High elves and Void Elves)?

But before some highly-motivated fans come and start crying about "muh BE are not HE" I want to clarify - I want High Elves as neutral race only in one way - disbandment of both Alliance and Horde - its the only way to be truly neutral. If not - Horde.

Any other way will be spit on faces of Horde players.

The High Elves, Blood Elves, Void Elves, and the history, customs, and realities that directly touch on them. I don't personally care what one considers a true High Elf insofar as that goes, the point of the warning is to stop eternally prosecuting the greater faction conflict by discussing/debating topics that don't have anything to do with the High Elves or any of their precursors and/or derivatives.

[Doreidorei]

The idea that they're going to split hubs in Midnight is silly; they might make some of the pre-existing towns nicer, fix places like Sunsail and the villages on the shores of the Elrendar to be usable as zone questing hubs, but splitting is just unlikely (they'll probably have to dredge up the vanilla map just to justify full zones for Zul'Aman and Quel'danas). Even the idea of carving up Falconwing square to be a faction hub is ridiculous (I guess they could set up faction camps in the pavillions on the road to Sunstrider isle to make the faction warriors shut up).

IMO even the idea that they'll randomly segregate elven subgroups doesn't mesh with the reunification thing.

[Aucald]

The idea that they're going to split hubs in Midnight is silly; they might make some of the pre-existing towns nicer, fix places like Sunsail and the villages on the shores of the Elrendar to be usable as zone questing hubs, but splitting is just unlikely (they'll probably have to dredge up the vanilla map just to justify full zones for Zul'Aman and Quel'danas). Even the idea of carving up Falconwing square to be a faction hub is ridiculous (I guess they could set up faction camps in the pavillions on the road to Sunstrider isle to make the faction warriors shut up).

IMO even the idea that they'll randomly segregate elven subgroups doesn't mesh with the reunification thing.

I think "reunification" is probably a bit too strong of a word to describe what will happen in Midnight. Sure, the various elven groups will work together toward a common goal - with High Elves and Void Elves working alongside Blood Elves and Nightborne to deal with the minions of the Void and safeguard the Sunwell to ensure it doesn't fall to an encroaching evil. But I don't think the wider schisms in the greater elven cultures will be sealed by this one-time event. Coming together to help protect the Sunwell isn't going to resolve several millennia's worth of divide in some cases.

[Doreidorei]

I think "reunification" is probably a bit too strong of a word to describe what will happen in Midnight.

You may think so but Metzen clearly didn't, is my point. "Elven tribes of Azeroth", until we see the trailers, would suggest something far broader than whatever Quel'thalas civil war scenario these threads have theorycrafted for almost a decade.