1. #26541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Bullshit. There's no grand story being held hostage by the faction conflict. You people keep saying this crap hoping someone might believe it or what's the deal? Dragon Flight is about as good as it gets and frankly, it's not that good. In fact I see people saying it sucks a lot.
    You people are so obessed by this elf crap that you would wreck the whole game to get your way. No thanks. And it really is not happening, because Blizzard knows once they bust that founding pillar of the game it's gone forever and why would they do it? Cause some people can't play a velf? Get real.
    LOL get over yourself.

    No-one is hoping you'll believe it. You clearly aren't willing to even entertain the idea that you might be wrong, and have adopted the classic "Everyone except me is wrong!" attitude of the wrong (and often divorced) man.

    Also "obsessed with Elf crap", lol WTF? I think you're maybe projecting your own opinions and obsessions on to others there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    And it really is not happening, because Blizzard knows once they bust that founding pillar of the game it's gone forever and why would they do it?
    LOL! This is amazing. You're literally saying WoW is 100% hostage to the HvA plot. By describing it this way and acting this way about it, you're showing that actually, what you believe is that WoW has to have the HvA plot or it's worthless as an IP. That means it is hostage to it. You just approve of it being hostage to it. Your own logic and arguments have told us you know this.

    You don't need to change your mind that you love the HvA plot and think it's everything to WoW, that's fine, everyone is entitled to think some element of lore or whatever is the best, but this shows you do actually accept the hostage status.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  2. #26542
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    LOL get over yourself.

    No-one is hoping you'll believe it. You clearly aren't willing to even entertain the idea that you might be wrong, and have adopted the classic "Everyone except me is wrong!" attitude of the wrong (and often divorced) man.

    Also "obsessed with Elf crap", lol WTF? I think you're maybe projecting your own opinions and obsessions on to others there.



    LOL! This is amazing. You're literally saying WoW is 100% hostage to the HvA plot. By describing it this way and acting this way about it, you're showing that actually, what you believe is that WoW has to have the HvA plot or it's worthless as an IP. That means it is hostage to it. You just approve of it being hostage to it. Your own logic and arguments have told us you know this.

    You don't need to change your mind that you love the HvA plot and think it's everything to WoW, that's fine, everyone is entitled to think some element of lore or whatever is the best, but this shows you do actually accept the hostage status.
    So this is where you start attacking me personally cause I said your wet dream isn't happening is that it? Not like I was expecting anything else from you people. You know that insulting me won't make the wow devs go 'WOW THIS GUY IS GREAT" and just do what you want, right?

  3. #26543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    So this is where you start attacking me personally cause I said your wet dream isn't happening is that it? Not like I was expecting anything else from you people. You know that insulting me won't make the wow devs go 'WOW THIS GUY IS GREAT" and just do what you want, right?
    LOL amazing. How is one even supposed to respond to random bizarre accusations that seem to be 100% projections from the guy you're trying to discuss stuff with? What are you even saying?

    The reality is, and you agree based on your own arguments, that WoW is effectively "hostage" to the HvA plot. You think that's a good thing, and that if it was removed, WoW would be worse. Other people think it's a bad thing, and if it was lessened or removed, WoW would be better. This isn't very complicated.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  4. #26544
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    LOL amazing. How is one even supposed to respond to random bizarre accusations that seem to be 100% projections from the guy you're trying to discuss stuff with? What are you even saying?

    The reality is, and you agree based on your own arguments, that WoW is effectively "hostage" to the HvA plot. You think that's a good thing, and that if it was removed, WoW would be worse. Other people think it's a bad thing, and if it was lessened or removed, WoW would be better. This isn't very complicated.
    Maybe try something new like keeping your mouth shut for once. All you've done since I responded is made these semidoct profiling attempts. I got the wrong attitude, divorced man attitude, I'm projecting, all that crap just cause I didn't agee with you. You come off as such an obnoxious person and you don't seem to realize it.
    Look, I don't want to debate anything with a guy like that. I don't need to deal with whatever issues are plaguing you in some pointless attempt to establish normal communication.
    Suffice it to say you are wrong. You made up this story-hostage thing and people who disagree with you get profiled in a rude manner instead of an actual discussion. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard won't go for it given the poor reception the events of the last patch got. Fact is, while people would like cross faction grouping, they don't want to abolish faction and I'm pretty sure neither does blizzard. You don't like that, that's your problem, but remember barking at me won't make the devs agree with you, so chill.

  5. #26545
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    The faction conflict IS part of the WoW story. It's not freeing anything you make it sound like it some kind of oppressive force keeping the poor WoW lore hostage. It's not. The conflict between these factions has been a thing for a long time and I don't see why it should be removed, cause what? You want to RP-rub against orcman muscles or whatever.

    And Silvermoon should not be neutral, neither shold the nelf tree or Gilneas if it actually gets reclaimed.
    Gilneas is the perfect example of something being held hostage by the faction conflict and the faction system though.

    If you look back for many years it was not an all too uncommon argument that if the request for Gilneas to come back came up, someone was going to say something like "well that would be nice but it can't because it's Horde territory and would upset the zone balance between Alliance and Horde".

    In fact I'm pretty sure even Blizzard brought that up before as to why they couldn't, fast forward to now where factions are having more of their restrictions lessened and we're moving past the faction war, both sides coming together against common threats... I don't think it's a coincidence that they're more comfortable with letting Worgen return back to their homeland than when the faction hatred was running hotter. It would simply be impossible for them to because of how dangerous it would be to live next to hostile enemies who were in a stronger position than them, but now it's conceivable because Calia and Lilian Voss are not Sylvanas, and want to establish peace with Gilneas. Part of me thinks it's a setup to make the zones less faction intensive but I'm not sure of that yet, but yeah strikes me as very ironic that one playable race actually finally gets a positive development because the factions and faction wars are not the focal point of the story. Not to say they couldn't fuck it up still by having them lose something in the process of getting their home back, or they jerk off the Forsaken more in the process of it but for now I think it's a good step forward and actual progress for a playable race that's been fucked over by Blizzard for 13 years.

  6. #26546
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Gilneas is the perfect example of something being held hostage by the faction conflict and the faction system though.

    If you look back for many years it was not an all too uncommon argument that if the request for Gilneas to come back came up, someone was going to say something like "well that would be nice but it can't because it's Horde territory and would upset the zone balance between Alliance and Horde".

    In fact I'm pretty sure even Blizzard brought that up before as to why they couldn't, fast forward to now where factions are having more of their restrictions lessened and we're moving past the faction war, both sides coming together against common threats... I don't think it's a coincidence that they're more comfortable with letting Worgen return back to their homeland than when the faction hatred was running hotter. It would simply be impossible for them to because of how dangerous it would be to live next to hostile enemies who were in a stronger position than them, but now it's conceivable because Calia and Lilian Voss are not Sylvanas, and want to establish peace with Gilneas. Part of me thinks it's a setup to make the zones less faction intensive but I'm not sure of that yet, but yeah strikes me as very ironic that one playable race actually finally gets a positive development because the factions and faction wars are not the focal point of the story. Not to say they couldn't fuck it up still by having them lose something in the process of getting their home back, or they jerk off the Forsaken more in the process of it but for now I think it's a good step forward and actual progress for a playable race that's been fucked over by Blizzard for 13 years.
    So how is it the perfect example? Please tell me cause all I see there was Blizzard not interested in making it a populated city. They could have repopulated Gilneas at any point from the end of Cataclysm to this point, so don't try to say it was held hostage by the story, no, they just didn't want to bother to restore it and it was something players asked for, even Horde players. But they couldn't because of the story, come on. You people are starting to act like the story is some abusive daddy keeping the progeny from reaching their greatness.

    And all this bullshit I hear about the story is based on an ulterior motive, so belfs can be Alliance.

    And given how you bring races that have been fucked over, it really is funny how things have evolved. From begging blizzard to give the Alliance some kind of elf, just any elf that could resemble helfs, they'd make it work they said, then velfs appeared, again begging blizzard to give you belf customization options, that's all they wanted, now we moved on to busting factions. No, enough is enough.

  7. #26547
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    So how is it the perfect example? Please tell me cause all I see there was Blizzard not interested in making it a populated city. They could have repopulated Gilneas at any point from the end of Cataclysm to this point, so don't try to say it was held hostage by the story, no, they just didn't want to bother to restore it and it was something players asked for, even Horde players. But they couldn't because of the story, come on. You people are starting to act like the story is some abusive daddy keeping the progeny from reaching their greatness.

    And all this bullshit I hear about the story is based on an ulterior motive, so belfs can be Alliance.

    And given how you bring races that have been fucked over, it really is funny how things have evolved. From begging blizzard to give the Alliance some kind of elf, just any elf that could resemble helfs, they'd make it work they said, then velfs appeared, again begging blizzard to give you belf customization options, that's all they wanted, now we moved on to busting factions. No, enough is enough.
    I mean, during faction peace that's the time they finally choose to bring it back, beforehand they did use faction reasons as excuses like the Forsaken occupying it or it being too hard to do because it's smack dab in Horde lands. You can disagree, hell I think it should have come back in BfA, but that was their reasoning and that's what they stuck to.

    Faction reasons were basically a scapegoat for them to explain why they do nothing about it, that is an example of factionalism being used to hold back a playable race from some kind of progress in their story.

  8. #26548
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    I mean, during faction peace that's the time they finally choose to bring it back, beforehand they did use faction reasons as excuses like the Forsaken occupying it or it being too hard to do because it's smack dab in Horde lands. You can disagree, hell I think it should have come back in BfA, but that was their reasoning and that's what they stuck to.

    Faction reasons were basically a scapegoat for them to explain why they do nothing about it, that is an example of factionalism being used to hold back a playable race from some kind of progress in their story.
    And now it's restored and the factions haven't been abolished. Amazing. Like I said, people needs to stop this crap about the factions being in the way of the story when they are part of that story and a very important one.

  9. #26549
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    And now it's restored and the factions haven't been abolished. Amazing. Like I said, people needs to stop this crap about the factions being in the way of the story when they are part of that story and a very important one.
    They might as well be abolished at this point, when you let factions group together in raids and stuff that's already not a good sign for the longevity of the concept. Not really much point to them if there's no division and tribalism that they're meant to entail, much less camraderie you're supposed to have fighting alongside your fellow faction friends and not those filthy others over on the other side of the pond you're supposed to hate.

    It's sad but that's just how they want it to be, and how things went yeah it's not a good look when certain playable races are making progress in the story with factions lessened. Didn't have to be that way but that's how Blizz decided to treat it.

  10. #26550
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    They might as well be abolished at this point, when you let factions group together in raids and stuff that's already not a good sign for the longevity of the concept. Not really much point to them if there's no division and tribalism that they're meant to entail, much less camraderie you're supposed to have fighting alongside your fellow faction friends and not those filthy others over on the other side of the pond you're supposed to hate.

    It's sad but that's just how they want it to be, and how things went yeah it's not a good look when certain playable races are making progress in the story with factions lessened. Didn't have to be that way but that's how Blizz decided to treat it.
    They can want it to be a fucking line on your screen and all they'd have to do is put a dot here and there somewhere and have you pay your sub. Yeah, the point of profit is to get as much as possible with as little effort as possible, but sadly it does not work that way in entertainment. And to some degree they understand that I think.

    I'll give you an example, much more superficial, but drives the point home I think. The Pathfinder achievement. That thing fucking sucked. And how was it added? Thanks to a vocal minority on the forums who insisted it was the best thing ever. We aren't stupid, we all know why Blizz went for that, it was cheaper for them especially considering it was introduced in WoD, an expansion that is notorious for being unfinished. But they believed they had the justification they needed to axe flying until very late in the expansion, turns out people fucking hated it and justly so. And now they removed it. It's the same thing. If they think they can use a bunch of vocal people on the forums to axe factions, they are wrong because people know the deal and unlike Pathfinder, you can't fix it later. We all know they'd like to stop having to write stories for both factions, it's simply cheaper, but the moment I see them actually doing that, by removing factions I'm out. I'm done. For me WoW is dead. And I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that way.

  11. #26551
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Gilneas is the perfect example of something being held hostage by the faction conflict and the faction system though.

    If you look back for many years it was not an all too uncommon argument that if the request for Gilneas to come back came up, someone was going to say something like "well that would be nice but it can't because it's Horde territory and would upset the zone balance between Alliance and Horde".

    In fact I'm pretty sure even Blizzard brought that up before as to why they couldn't, fast forward to now where factions are having more of their restrictions lessened and we're moving past the faction war, both sides coming together against common threats... I don't think it's a coincidence that they're more comfortable with letting Worgen return back to their homeland than when the faction hatred was running hotter. It would simply be impossible for them to because of how dangerous it would be to live next to hostile enemies who were in a stronger position than them, but now it's conceivable because Calia and Lilian Voss are not Sylvanas, and want to establish peace with Gilneas. Part of me thinks it's a setup to make the zones less faction intensive but I'm not sure of that yet, but yeah strikes me as very ironic that one playable race actually finally gets a positive development because the factions and faction wars are not the focal point of the story. Not to say they couldn't fuck it up still by having them lose something in the process of getting their home back, or they jerk off the Forsaken more in the process of it but for now I think it's a good step forward and actual progress for a playable race that's been fucked over by Blizzard for 13 years.
    Calia is a filthy traitor and should be hanged for working deep into Anduin's and Genn's wishes all the time just like Baine and Thrall. We don't want leader who betray their own people all the time for fragile peace with humanity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Have you? The faction conflict hasn't been removed, there's a truce in place at the request of the the red dragon queen while in the Dragon Isles. That's it. Why do you people assume that it's been removed, I don't know, but it hasn't and it shouldn't be. And the fact they let us queue with each other does not mean factions have suddenly vanished.
    Sounds more like you want this to happen rather.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Bullshit. There's no grand story being held hostage by the faction conflict. You people keep saying this crap hoping someone might believe it or what's the deal? Dragon Flight is about as good as it gets and frankly, it's not that good. In fact I see people saying it sucks a lot.
    You people are so obessed by this elf crap that you would wreck the whole game to get your way. No thanks. And it really is not happening, because Blizzard knows once they bust that founding pillar of the game it's gone forever and why would they do it? Cause some people can't play a velf? Get real.
    I an't remember any story ruined just because the factions fought each other instead of random bad guy.

  12. #26552
    We already have high elves in the game. They are called blood and void elves. We don't need more of the same.

  13. #26553
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Calia is a filthy traitor and should be hanged for working deep into Anduin's and Genn's wishes all the time just like Baine and Thrall. We don't want leader who betray their own people all the time for fragile peace with humanity.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I an't remember any story ruined just because the factions fought each other instead of random bad guy.
    General reminder the Forsaken playerbase was about Calia for years and catholic corpses are an aesthetic that was popular in fanart for years.

    Was there while people were asking for all of it.
    Now we have it and reee a character exists.

  14. #26554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    We already have high elves in the game. They are called blood and void elves. We don't need more of the same.
    Blood elves aren't High elves But yeah, some are still in the game.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  15. #26555
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Blood elves aren't High elves But yeah, some are still in the game.
    The Horde playerbase constantly flip-flops on this.

    When they want to discredit the High Elves, they claim that Blood Elves and High Elves are identical and the only divergence is political affiliation.

    But then, when they want to keep Quel'Thalas Horde-exclusive, they claim that Blood Elves are their own unique culture/civilization/country who shouldn't mingle with the Alliance Elves.

    And it can become difficult to keep track of all the flip-flops.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  16. #26556
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Blood elves aren't High elves But yeah, some are still in the game.
    Void elves are High elves, right?....right?

  17. #26557
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Horde playerbase constantly flip-flops on this.

    When they want to discredit the High Elves, they claim that Blood Elves and High Elves are identical and the only divergence is political affiliation.

    But then, when they want to keep Quel'Thalas Horde-exclusive, they claim that Blood Elves are their own unique culture/civilization/country who shouldn't mingle with the Alliance Elves.

    And it can become difficult to keep track of all the flip-flops.
    The only flip flopping seems to be the flip flopping done by High-elf fetishists as they come up with new and exciting acrobatics to justify why we need high elves because they're totes super different and nothing else is more important for WoW.

    Blood elves are high elves. Period. This at this point is so solidly confirmed by the lore the only people who doubt it are people with unhealthy elf fetishes that only play Alliance and need to desperately contrive any reason no matter how irrelevant to get a playable Alliance High elf. Even when they already have one through Void elves now. They are physiologically and genetically the same.

    Blood elves, the largest group of remaining high elves, have also formed a unique civilization/culture over the years compared to other groups of High Elves. Whether or not they should mingle depends more on their political affiliations and not race. We're talking more of a UK vs US difference rather than a Goblin vs Tauren difference.

    This concept and the fact that Blood Elf Culture/Politics has diverged from Unaffiliated or Alliance High elves to some degree should be obvious to anyone with the ability to zip their own pants and who doesn't have every corner in their house padded for their safety. And that political affiliation is what keeps Alliance High elves out. The government says they're horde and you essentially want acknowledged enemies of the state to have access to the city to fullfill your personal fantasy. Not because it makes any damn sense. Hell Russia/Ukraine's a good real world example there now.

    You're basically pissed off that Ukrainian's don't just let any Russian waltz into Kyiv and I'd say the cultural overlap/interconnectivity is actually pretty close to the Alliance/Horde elf split.

    I'll try and put it in a way you can understand. A white person from the UK, a black person from Nigeria, and an Asian person from Japan are all still human. Just like an Alliance "High elf" and a horde "Blood Elf". Time, location, and other factors created a divergence in culture and civilization to a larger degree than High Elves vs Blood given the relative recentness of the separation for the latter. If the UK and Nigeria are at war or at best a tentative cease fire, as the horde/Alliance regularly are, than it makes abso-perfect fucking sense for the Horde aligned government of Quel'Thalas to allow Alliance affiliated elves in there. Even though the UK and Nigeria are just as much equally human as Alliance High Elves and Blood elves.


    As long as the Blood Elf faction remains horde Aligned it'll make zero sense to allow Alliance elves free pass to Quel'Thalas and gameplay annoyances make it even less likely for us to see outside of limited quest/stories.

    And I'd like to end this with I literally don't care at all about blood elves. You can delete Quel'Thalas from the game/lore entirely and I wouldn't even care as long as I could still play a Demon Hunter. Shit I'll swap you for Void elves. The void's far more interesting than anything the high elves have had going on since they played with fel energy. But at this time unless the other factions of high elves invade/take over Quel'Thalas from the blood elves it makes sense for it to remain a horde city.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2024-01-02 at 10:43 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
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  18. #26558
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Blood elves are high elves. Period.
    Good.

    Then, since they are all one culture/civilization/society sharing pretty much everything, from lore, to history, to language (as you acknowledged), you won't have any problem with the Void and High Elves moving back to Quel'Thalas -their rightful homeland- (as they are all identical Elves) in Midnight.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  19. #26559
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Good.

    Then, since they are all one culture/civilization/society sharing pretty much everything, from lore, to history, to language (as you acknowledged), you won't have any problem with the Void and High Elves moving back to Quel'Thalas -their rightful homeland- (as they are all identical Elves) in Midnight.
    like the British and Americans but there was a war and now they are separate nations. An American and a British may be ethnic Anglo-Saxons but they belong to different nations.
    The void elves now belong to their own rendorei nation in their own telogrus kingdom.

  20. #26560
    Herald of the Titans Tikaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Good.

    Then, since they are all one culture/civilization/society sharing pretty much everything, from lore, to history, to language (as you acknowledged), you won't have any problem with the Void and High Elves moving back to Quel'Thalas -their rightful homeland- (as they are all identical Elves) in Midnight.
    I would agree to that, but we would need to find out what distance needs to be maintained between a Void Elf and the Sunwell. Since, you know, that didn't go so well when Alleria was near it...

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