Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Alanar]

Nothing in my response implies it doesn't. All I'm pointing out is the unpredictable nature of the dev's whims; we can't say what would or wouldn't happen in the game based on any previous precedents. I'm not arguing in favour of either of these posters.

I mean, we can speculate on a unpredicktable nature of those devs, but outside that, there isnt much to think they would do it in the first place. Thats my point.

I am merely saying I understand the posters, who were quick to point out, this literally never happened. We have no reason to believe they would go that route.

[Triceron]

I mean, we can speculate on a unpredicktable nature of those devs, but outside that, there isnt much to think they would do it in the first place. Thats my point.

I am merely saying I understand the posters, who were quick to point out, this literally never happened. We have no reason to believe they would go that route.

You mean other than the unification of all Elves being central to the plot? And revisiting Quel'thalas as a core point of the expansion, implied to be a major zone of importance for both factions?

Not saying it would happen either, but there is precedence for that speculation. I think bringing up the nature of the NE capital being destroyed and shifted and becoming fairly neutral to Horde is quite an adequate example of how things are quite different today.

[Alanar]

You mean other than the unification of all Elves being central to the plot? And revisiting Quel'thalas as a core point of the expansion, implied to be a major zone of importance for both factions?

Not saying it would happen either, but there is precedence for that speculation.

These are the points we know from midnight yes.

Unification, right so, talks about unification of scattered elven tribes, which is vague at best. We are not even sure if this implies our known nations. Those arent scattered perse and its kinda weird Metzen would call our known groups of elves "tribes" with that he could also mean these scattered tribes implies darkfallen, fellelves or any other sub faction. That is also part of the speculation. We need more info on this, to have a more meaninfull discussion.

Oo its not really a question wether this is a horde/allaince moment, this should be obvious that it will happen. In what form is unknown. Thats pretty much it.

Going from that... too the topic neutral is therefor quite a jump. We still have Quel'danas, which used to be the hub in bc. This could also be an option in a fully updated Quel'thalas. None of these options can be ruled out at this point, simply because we dont know.

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. I'm just used to being disappointed and getting the worst.
I do have low expectations, so yes - the way I am, I've just accepted that Silvermoon will be shared. If in 5 years, that doesn't happen and I will take great pleasure in you telling me how wrong I was and I'd be elated to have been so wrong.
.

@Triceron
I have seen many blood elf fans here, but also on the officals, who dont feel heard, because void elf fans simply shout the loudest. Blood elf fans dont even want this, but are losing hope. Its sad.

[Grazrug]

These are the points we know from midnight yes.

Unification, right so, talks about unification of scattered elven tribes, which is vague at best. We are not even sure if this implies our known nations. Those arent scattered perse and its kinda weird Metzen would call our known groups of elves "tribes" with that he could also mean these scattered tribes implies darkfallen, fellelves or any other sub faction. That is also part of the speculation. We need nore info on this, to have a more serious discussion.

Oo its not really a question wether this is a horde/allaince moment, this should be obvious that it will happen. In what form is unknown. Thats pretty much it.

Going from that... too the topic neutral is therefor quite a jump. We still have Quel'danas, which used to be the hub in bc. This could also be an option in a fully updated Quel'thalas. None of these options can be ruled out at this point, simply because we dont know.

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@Triceron
I have seen many blood elf fans here, but also on the officals, who dont feel heard, because void elf fans simply shout the loudest. Blood elf fans dont even want this, but are losing hope. Its sad.

Difference is blood elf fans aren't demanding stuff as loud as possible we just used to roll with everything while being ignroed most of the time. It is a sort of entitlement to believe just because you make the most noise your ideas should be heard. Really that became the sad truth of many forums.

[Alanar]

Difference is blood elf fans aren't demanding stuff as loud as possible we just used to roll with everything while being ignroed most of the time. It is a sort of entitlement to believe just because you make the most noise your ideas should be heard. Really that became the sad truth of many forums.

It was very noticeable imo, with the costomizations options. Blood elves barely got anything, but void elves had a huge bunch exactly because of the shouting. It was the time, we actually had devs respond on wishes. Nightborne fans were also pressent and got blue responses as well. It was nice for a change. The devs then used vanish and didnt return to the topic.

Blood elves simply wanted the bc runic face tattoo and some longer new hairstyles and fitting crimson jewelry. Actual blood elf things. They ended up, with none of the asked things. The only noteworthy thing was for both void and blood elves, which was the blue eye color. Effectly giving both factions high elves. I think In the end blood elves got the last end to be fair.

For the future I would love to see more thematic options for both, giving them more defining options.
More gold/crimson/green for blood elves and more gold/purple for void elf. This could be in the form of jewelry. Neck, ears, body w/e. I think both could benefit from that, that would feel appropriate for their racial theme.

The way high elf works, is that it serves as a canon rp option. Your intrepetation actually count here. With this I wouldnt rule out furure high elf options (blue, gold jewelry for example) but they would be added for both. That being said imo It shouldnt be the main focus, as that should be about void and blood elves.

[Evilfish]

The whims are of the developers, and of that we don't get to know the outcome. If you wanted to say something about their comments, then you shouldn't be denying them with equally wrong statements. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not covering my ears from what you're saying. I hear it loud and clear, which is why I'm making a point that your statements are equally wrong because you don't know the whims of the developers. Just because 'it hasn't happened before' doesn't mean jack shit since no one is predicting what the developers would do or not do based on any past precedent, because it's a highly unreliable metric.

That's why we are being cheeky about your response. It isn't so much a defense of their statement, it is pointing out how you're answering using equally fallible metric.

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And I never said it makes it more likely, did I?

I didn't deny them. I said they don't mean what you want them to mean. I said that you people want this to go this way specifically because it involves the belfs which you have been trying to get into the Alliance one way or another since 2007.
As for what I know, I made that clear. I know a faction city or a race never turned neutral. That's you people trying to get your way and it's ridiculous to think that's what they are gonna do based on nothing really other than they gave you a few belf customizations and somehow that means they'll give you their city as well.

But hey, keep covering your ears. I honestly don't care. Just remember, what you are suggesting is dumb and based solely on your obsession with painting the belfs blue.

[Triceron]

These are the points we know from midnight yes.

Unification, right so, talks about unification of scattered elven tribes, which is vague at best. We are not even sure if this implies our known nations. Those arent scattered perse and its kinda weird Metzen would call our known groups of elves "tribes" with that he could also mean these scattered tribes implies darkfallen, fellelves or any other sub faction. That is also part of the speculation. We need more info on this, to have a more meaninfull discussion.

Oo its not really a question wether this is a horde/allaince moment, this should be obvious that it will happen. In what form is unknown. Thats pretty much it..

Speculation is based on what we know, not what we don't know. We can speculate based on what little is gleaned from what they told us about Elven unification, that is the whole point of speculation.

Just like Wrathion gave us a hint at Dragon Isles. We can take that further and extrapolate all sorts of theoretical outcomes. Maybe we'll get a new Draconic race. Maybe we could get a new Draconic class. Just because we didn't know enough beyond a mere name drop doesn't mean the speculation and theorycrafting is meaningless or implausible. A simple name drop was all that's needed to create speculation that can be discussed, that is the whole point of speculation discussion.

What I'm opposed to is denial of speculative discussion basis of it not having happened yet. To me, it's not constructive to the spirit of speculative discussion. It's a statement that implies burden of proof for a subject matter that is purely theoretical and not subject to be proven true, merely discussed.

Like if we are being real, there is no way to speculatively discuss a Draconic Race or Class if the response is always 'we never had that before and we don't know enough about these Dragon Isles to meaningfully discuss it'. Cuz the fact is, Dragon Isles was kept completely secret until the moment Blizzard announced it, and even leaks of an actual class and race could be subject to denial 'because we don't know if it will actually happen and it's never happened before'.

This type of argument is counter intuitive to any speculative discussion, because it is based on denying any possible theory as 'non meaningful' until it actually happens. Seen it a million times in every New Class discussion thread.

I have seen many blood elf fans here, but also on the officals, who dont feel heard, because void elf fans simply shout the loudest. Blood elf fans dont even want this, but are losing hope. Its sad

I'm not sure what the mention is for. I have no strong opinions for or against BE players gaining or losing Silvermoon. Blizzard has already forsaken plenty of other races, while Blood Elves have gotten plenty of special treatment like access to Demon Hunter class and Dark Ranger skins while other races like Gnomes don't even properly have a single class to represent their culture. This is literally first world problems to me, as a non-BE player who sees it from the outside.

I mean there are literally races who don't even have their heritage armor yet, let slone a capital city to call their own. I can't say I have much sympathy for people who aren't seeing the bigger picture here.

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I didn't deny them. I said they don't mean what you want them to mean. I said that you people want this to go this way specifically because it involves the belfs which you have been trying to get into the Alliance one way or another since 2007.

Not sure why you're using 'you people' to me when I haven't stated anything about Alliance or Blood Elves at all.

You were making a statement about how this stuff never happened before. That isn't really a precedent that supports either side of the argument, because things are in such a state of flux that there is no stable conclusion to reach based on any previous precedent. It is literally up in the air, which is why it'a being speculated in the first place. If were so concrete as you seem to imply it to be, no one would be speculating its plausability. Yet you can easily see that there is a division of opinions, enough for you to regard a side as 'you people'.

You can feel free to believe they are wrong, but just the same there is no tangible evidence for either side that this will or will not happen. It's a debate over opinions and belief, little more.

[elbleuet]

They forget horde has high elves as well, so it becomes a pointlss conversation anyway. High elves are simply not the topic anymore.

They are. If you want to discuss about Blood elves, here's the appropriate topic :

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cussion-thread

And that change was not permanent that is the damm point.

That change is permanent. Teldrassil is destroyed for ever because of the genocide you did.

[Grazrug]

They are. If you want to discuss about Blood elves, here's the appropriate topic :

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cussion-thread



That change is permanent. Teldrassil is destroyed for ever because of the genocide you did.

Darkshore and Ashenvale were retaken and teldrassil will soon follow as Tyrande said.

[Evilfish]

Speculation is based on what we know, not what we don't know. We can speculate based on what little is gleaned from what they told us about Elven unification, that is the whole point of speculation.

Just like Wrathion gave us a hint at Dragon Isles. We can take that further and extrapolate all sorts of theoretical outcomes. Maybe we'll get a new Draconic race. Maybe we could get a new Draconic class. Just because we didn't know enough beyond a mere name drop doesn't mean the speculation and theorycrafting is meaningless or implausible. A simple name drop was all that's needed to create speculation that can be discussed, that is the whole point of speculation discussion.

What I'm opposed to is denial of speculative discussion basis of it not having happened yet. To me, it's not constructive to the spirit of speculative discussion. It's a statement that implies burden of proof for a subject matter that is purely theoretical and not subject to be proven true, merely discussed.

Like if we are being real, there is no way to speculatively discuss a Draconic Race or Class if the response is always 'we never had that before and we don't know enough about these Dragon Isles to meaningfully discuss it'. Cuz the fact is, Dragon Isles was kept completely secret until the moment Blizzard announced it, and even leaks of an actual class and race could be subject to denial 'because we don't know if it will actually happen and it's never happened before'.

This type of argument is counter intuitive to any speculative discussion, because it is based on denying any possible theory as 'non meaningful' until it actually happens. Seen it a million times in every New Class discussion thread.



I'm not sure what the mention is for. I have no strong opinions for or against BE players gaining or losing Silvermoon. Blizzard has already forsaken plenty of other races, while Blood Elves have gotten plenty of special treatment like access to Demon Hunter class and Dark Ranger skins while other races like Gnomes don't even properly have a single class to represent their culture. This is literally first world problems to me, as a non-BE player who sees it from the outside.

I mean there are literally races who don't even have their heritage armor yet, let slone a capital city to call their own. I can't say I have much sympathy for people who aren't seeing the bigger picture here.

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Not sure why you're using 'you people' to me when I haven't stated anything about Alliance or Blood Elves at all.

You were making a statement about how this stuff never happened before. That isn't really a precedent that supports either side of the argument, because things are in such a state of flux that there is no stable conclusion to reach based on any previous precedent. It is literally up in the air, which is why it'a being speculated in the first place. If were so concrete as you seem to imply it to be, no one would be speculating its plausability. Yet you can easily see that there is a division of opinions, enough for you to regard a side as 'you people'.

You can feel free to believe they are wrong, but just the same there is no tangible evidence for either side that this will or will not happen. It's a debate over opinions and belief, little more.

It's not just based on the notion that it never happened before, pay attention, I said it's based on that as well other than it being pointless and damaging, not to mention annoying especially to belfs with you people, yeah, you people, trying to cut away parts of them a piece at a time.

[Alanar]

They are. If you want to discuss about Blood elves, here's the appropriate topic :

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cussion-thread
.

They are not anymore, its about void and blood elves. High elf topic died a long time ago. High elves are playable on both factions.

You can learn more about them here: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_elf

[Triceron]

It's not just based on the notion that it never happened before, pay attention, I said it's based on that as well other than it being pointless and damaging, not to mention annoying especially to belfs with you people, yeah, you people, trying to cut away parts of them a piece at a time.

What the hell does 'you people' even mean?

I am not a developer nor do I speak to what they would do. If they want Elf unification in Quel'thalas, then there is a perceivable chance that they would make Silvermoon a neutral hub. It is plausible to speculate.

Does speculating it mean I WANT it to happen? No. Discussing it happening is not the same as wanting it to happen. I'm not sure why you are so quick to accuse and draw lines in the sand as though anyone who merely mentions the possibility is signing a death waver for all BE fans. And same on the other side, I doubt all BE fans are unified against a neutral Silvermoon. Considering the majority of Horde roll BE, I imagine there is just as many voices out there who wouldn't even care about what happens to the capital any more than I would care about what happens to my main's capital. It's not a hot topic for every BE player. Most players don't even congregate to their own races' main city, most of the action either happens in Stormwind, Orgrimmar or some neutral hub relevant to the latest expansion.

You need to stop drawing lines in the sand for groups of people and start speaking out for yourself and only yourself. You aren't a representative of any groups, and this isn't some tribalist issue that is somehow resolved by one group of fans speaking out harder than another. We're literally talking about the whims of the developers, and little more than that. If you have anyone to blame, it's not any side of fans for asking anything of Silvermoon, it's the devs for choosing to go with a storyline that even remotely has the chance of blurring the lines of what Silvermoon may become in the future.


Besides, the way I see it, Silvermoon becoming a neutral hub of unification would ADD to it, with nothing being cut away. Just the way I look at Orgrimmar integrating more races like a section for Goblins or section for Tauren and Trolls isn't cutting away anything from the Orcs. The Orcish culture is still fully represented in the capital. Even if extended to the Alliance in some theoretical change to become a neutral city, it would still be Orgrimmar, home and capital of the Orcs. Just like ai still see Dalaran as the capital of the Kirin Tor magi, and not as some extension of an Alliance Kingdom being 'cut away' from its WC2 roots.

But hey, if you only want to see things as Team Jacob or Team Edward, you be you.

[Alanar]

Speculation is based on what we know, not what we don't know. We can speculate based on what little is gleaned from what they told us about Elven unification, that is the whole point of speculation.
.

Exactly, thats why I said we cant rule out any other options as well, with my previous examples. That doesnt take away the fact some people jump to far with little info we have.

Speculating a horde city becomes neutral, (that never happened befored or they use Quel'danas as a hub again or use the exodar as dreanei have been a very valueable ally in bc with the sunwell. Something can be said for both theories. One is stronger then the other imo. I am also not going to be basing anything on unpredictable devs. Not sure how feastable that is.

The problem is that we see people claim things will happen, which simply doesnt make it a very meaningfull discussion. That is all.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Besides, the way I see it, Silvermoon becoming a neutral hub of unification would ADD to it, with nothing being cut away. Just the way I look at Orgrimmar integrating more races like a section for Goblins or section for Tauren and Trolls isn't cutting away anything from the Orcs. The Orcish culture is still fully represented in the capital. Even if extended to the Alliance in some theoretical change to become a neutral city, it would still be Orgrimmar, home and capital of the Orcs. Just like ai still see Dalaran as the capital of the Kirin Tor magi, and not as some extension of an Alliance Kingdom being 'cut away' from its WC2 roots.

I disagree: not only would Silvermoon becoming neutral compromise the blood elves' distinct identity from the high elves, it would just as well diminish the high elf identity by reducing them to nothing more than the Thalassian elves who were briefly separate from the blood elves prior to total reunification. The modern high elves are defined as much by the doubled loss of their home and sticking to their morals the whole way through as the blood elves are by their corruption and subsequent redemption. Both have wholly distinct paths behind and ahead of them that are better explored by separate evolution into their own races with different loyalties, aesthetic direction, and leadership, which would be muddled by them sharing a home and Sunwell.

[Triceron]

Exactly, thats why I said we cant rule out any other options as well, with my previous examples. That doesnt take away the fact some people jump to far with little info we have.

The problem is that we see people claim things will happen, which simply doesnt make it a very meaningfull discussion.

Who makes anyone the judge of that?

Speculative discussion is all subjective, and there is no such thing as 'meaningful' or 'meaningless' discussion other than what you personally deem it to be. There is no collective regard for that term, no one to judge whether a certain topic is objectively meaningful or not.

In otherwords, I call bullshit.


Anyone could say ANY type of speculation is meaningless because there is no guarantees on any speculation ever happening. That would be their personal opinion on the subject of speculation. And all you're doing here is showing me how you regard the topic more than anything.

[Alanar]

Who makes anyone the judge of that?

Speculative discussion is all subjective, and there is no such thing as 'meaningful' or 'meaningless' discussion other than what you personally deem it to be. There is no collective regard for that term, no one to judge whether a certain topic is objectively meaningful or not.

In otherwords, I call bullshit.


Anyone could say ANY type of speculation is meaningless because there is no guarantees on any speculation ever happening. Its value can inly be determined subjectively, and all you're doing here is showing me how you regard the topic more than anything.

Look, you can speculate all you want if that is what your saying. But not every theory sounds as logical or obvious as I told you before. Again, the point was that people are claiming certain events will happen, when its not even close to confirming that. That is what I call meaningless back and forth, so yes I can say that. Its not about what you are saying.

[Triceron]

I disagree: not only would Silvermoon becoming neutral compromise the blood elves' distinct identity from the high elves, it would just as well diminish the high elf identity by reducing them to nothing more than the Thalassian elves who were briefly separate from the blood elves prior to total reunification. The modern high elves are defined as much by the doubled loss of their home and sticking to their morals the whole way through as the blood elves are by their corruption and subsequent redemption. Both have wholly distinct paths behind and ahead of them that are better explored by separate evolution into their own races with different loyalties, aesthetic direction, and leadership, which would be muddled by them sharing a home and Sunwell.

How is that different from the High Elves losing their distinctness through people saying they are already playable on both sides, yet not having any distinct capital or culture to call their own? If you see it one way, then it applies just the same in the other direction.

There is no distinct 'path for the High Elves'. It doesn't formally exist. It is whatever Blizzard wishes for them to be, and the path in the future is reunification
.

Just like I could say Tauren Sunwalkers and Draenei Vindicators are better off in their own paths, but that doesn't stop Blizzard from folding all of their lore in as modern day Knights of the Silver Hand. All Paladins are cut from the same cloth today, all part of the same order, all following under the same leadership.

The only way High Elves would be explorable in their own path is through their own Allied Race, with their own capital city, and I'm doubtful that would happen when the goal of the expansion is reunification.

[Evilfish]

What the hell does 'you people' even mean?

I am not a developer nor do I speak to what they would do. If they want Elf unification in Quel'thalas, then there is a perceivable chance that they would make Silvermoon a neutral hub. It is plausible to speculate.

Does speculating it mean I WANT it to happen? No. Discussing it happening is not the same as wanting it to happen. I'm not sure why you are so quick to accuse and draw lines in the sand as though anyone who merely mentions the possibility is signing a death waver for all BE fans. And same on the other side, I doubt all BE fans are unified against a neutral Silvermoon. Considering the majority of Horde roll BE, I imagine there is just as many voices out there who wouldn't even care about what happens to the capital any more than I would care about what happens to my main's capital. It's not a hot topic for every BE player. Most players don't even congregate to their own races' main city, most of the action either happens in Stormwind, Orgrimmar or some neutral hub relevant to the latest expansion.

You need to stop drawing lines in the sand for groups of people and start speaking out for yourself and only yourself. You aren't a representative of any groups, and this isn't some tribalist issue that is somehow resolved by one group of fans speaking out harder than another. We're literally talking about the whims of the developers, and little more than that. If you have anyone to blame, it's not any side of fans for asking anything of Silvermoon, it's the devs for choosing to go with a storyline that even remotely has the chance of blurring the lines of what Silvermoon may become in the future.


Besides, the way I see it, Silvermoon becoming a neutral hub of unification would ADD to it, with nothing being cut away. Just the way I look at Orgrimmar integrating more races like a section for Goblins or section for Tauren and Trolls isn't cutting away anything from the Orcs. The Orcish culture is still fully represented in the capital. Even if extended to the Alliance in some theoretical change to become a neutral city, it would still be Orgrimmar, home and capital of the Orcs. Just like ai still see Dalaran as the capital of the Kirin Tor magi, and not as some extension of an Alliance Kingdom being 'cut away' from its WC2 roots.

But hey, if you only want to see things as Team Jacob or Team Edward, you be you.

The blue belf wannabe types. You people.

But I really find it amusing how half of you come here and just lie about not having an interest in this subject and you are just throwing your 2 cents. But when someone says that it's not gonna happen, you jump on them and the fantasies begin.
And I don't see how taking half the belf city is adding to it. Belfs just want their city pulled out of 2007 and brought up to current standards. Why the hell they have to lose half of it to you people, I don't know.

[Alanar]

I disagree: not only would Silvermoon becoming neutral compromise the blood elves' distinct identity from the high elves, it would just as well diminish the high elf identity by reducing them to nothing more than the Thalassian elves who were briefly separate from the blood elves prior to total reunification. The modern high elves are defined as much by the doubled loss of their home and sticking to their morals the whole way through as the blood elves are by their corruption and subsequent redemption. Both have wholly distinct paths behind and ahead of them that are better explored by separate evolution into their own races with different loyalties, aesthetic direction, and leadership, which would be muddled by them sharing a home and Sunwell.

I wouldnt be to afraid of blood elves losing their identity, in the sense that high elves are barely a people, no own culture and a past glory. With high elves now being more in the backround, while being playable through canon rp intrepetation on both factions, they arent exactly the point of discussion anymore. The compromise made them into that status. That leaves us with void and blood elves, who should be easily seperated if they would focus on their own identity. Something the void elves lack.

[Triceron]

The blue belf wannabe types. You people.

But I really find it amusing how half of you come here and just lie about not having an interest in this subject and you are just throwing your 2 cents. But when someone says that it's not gonna happen, you jump on them and the fantasies begin.
And I don't see how taking half the belf city is adding to it. Belfs just want their city pulled out of 2007 and brought up to current standards. Why the hell they have to lose half of it to you people, I don't know.

You seem to want to attack a strawman more than actually respond to the people talking to you. I get that you're doubled down on Team Jacob, but not everyone responding to you is a rabid Twilight fan taking any side at all.

If Blizzard didn't plan on focusing on Quel'thalas, didn't plan on reunification, you wouldn't have to feel so defensive about the possibility of losing something you know you have little control over. And since you have little control, I guess the best way to vent that is by putting the blame on anyone who even remotely discusses the possibility it would happen. Am I getting this right?

Seems like it, since you seem to only be able to define the discussion in black and white tribes, as though the only way you can deal with the discussion is by dehumanizing anyone who even remotely disagrees with you. I see no other reason why you are choosing to respond to me as 'you guys'.

That's a you problem. It's got nothing to do with anything I've actually said in this thread, which you aren't bothering to read anyways. It doesn't actually matter what 2 cents are being put out here, since you'd just as easily devalue it as a blue blelf 'you guyz' response to keep your fee fees from getting hurt.


The developers have their own whims. I could ask the same thing back in 2005 when they put Blood Elves on the Horde in the first place, instead of remaining independent or part of the Illidari as we saw at the end of The Frozen Throne.