Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Zuben]

Yes, without much context there isn't much to discuss besides the theories we have been talking about already. I have nothing to add there.

I have applauded you on the Suramar questing idea, I think it it's very lively, active rp kind of questing, which could tell the story a lot better then just regular quests. Silvermoon should be brewing and happening, the only way to do it, is to make it as lively as Suaramar, in that I think you got a good idea going. With that Idea tho, I think it would be cooler to have an Alliance version(focus on void elves mostly) and a Horde version(focus on blood elf mostly), different routes and places each visit. Coming together in the end for the void as the culminating thing. Looking at it in chapters, we could see things spread out over whole of Quel'thalas and also bring in the Amani etc, there is potential with that system to make it great imo. I think that would be fair, to maintain each identity, but also leave room for meet ups, other factions and trolls. It's also a nice way to build up relations.

Yeah, it would be good and natural for the elf-expansion to cater to the themes of Alliance elves as well. It's also not mutually exclusive to an otherwise shared experience against the Void, so they could do this regardless of what happens with the hubs. My Suramar-theory works with a shared hub as well as separate ones.

The exodar idea comes forth out one of these threads, when midnight was announced, the speculation was that people believed they would also undertake bloodmist isle etc, because these are the last pieces of land that are in the bc server. Adding to that the Drenaei with being the overlooked past ally in the Sunwell story from bc with Velen and all that.

Dranei's inclusion is grounded enough to be plausible, it just kind of irks me to have them once again as the experts on all things cosmic. Azuremyst and Bloodmyst though... I've played through them maybe once years ago. They didn't seem that remarkable, either in theme or in lore. I was pretty much left with the impression that they're just some islands the draenei happened to crash into. Not to mention they're a world apart from Quel'Thalas, so I'm skeptical about them being included in Midnight.

If we're short on zones for the expansion I'd rather take some otherworldly void zones to provide contrast to Thalassian zones. Maybe have the void elves set up a hub there if separated hubs is the way to go. An abandoned Ethereal city or something? And have large tears in reality connect them to Quel'Thalas, so that we can Dynamic Flight our way there instead of the awful zone-Oribos-zone flightpath nonsense of Shadowlands.

[Alanar]

This is my feeling exactly.

I don't mind High Elves doing their own thing, but I don't want Sin'dorei identity to be lost. Silvermoon is that identity, but I've been bullied, bruised and battered so often now - I have very little fight left in me

You are bullied, because they know you are right. Silvermoon is a big part of the blood elves, always has been. You fought, but the shouting is overwhelming.. we arent like that.

[Grazrug]

You are bullied, because they know you are right. Silvermoon is a big part of the blood elves, always has been. You fought, but the shouting is overwhelming.. we arent like that.

Just let it go. We can't have faithful arguments with people who are ignorant to the plot.

[Triceron]

You are bullied, because they know you are right. Silvermoon is a big part of the blood elves, always has been. You fought, but the shouting is overwhelming.. we arent like that.

Is Silvermoon not also a big part of the High Elves and all those who once called it home?

[Lahis]

Is Silvermoon not also a big part of the High Elves and all those who once called it home?

What do you mean? High Elves are not Horde, ergo they have NEVER lived in the fundamentally HORDE city that is Silvermoon.

/s

[Alanar]

Is Silvermoon not also a big part of the High Elves and all those who once called it home?

Idk how usefull this is, Knowing they are pressent on both factions already.

Personally I wouldnt perse say so. The high elves that renamed themselves blood elves still live there for as long as wow excists. Those exiles or other groups you are talking about that left made their home on other places and never bothered with Silvermoon. There is no real legitemate claim either.

That being said, pilgrims were already seen around the sunwell a while ago and now that we know they are walking around and are canon on both sides, I dont feel like we are missing anything here.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you mean? High Elves are not Horde, ergo they have NEVER lived in the fundamentally HORDE city that is Silvermoon.

/s

High elves are horde and alliance. Also blood elves are high elves, technically the majority still live there.

This is simply canon now. Idk what else to tell you.

[Evilfish]

But I don't care. Especially about the crap you post, your armchair psychologist routine, I'd say they are laughable, but to be honest it's just sad. You people cannot have a conversation without making it deeply personal. I'm telling you I don't care, I don't care about your amateur observations. So if you decide to delve again into the mysteries of forum armchair psychology, be aware that I won't respond to those statements.

Again, I will say that you people have built a castle on sand with this Neutral Slivermoon thing. You say I don't know what the devs will do and yeah, I don't but I'm pretty sure they are not gonna take a faction city and turn it neutral especially one that has been on popular demand by a certain group whose only purpose is to take that city and turn it blue. The same people barking at me here for saying it's gonna happen the way they want it to because, well, Blizzard once decided to give them belf customizations that means the'll get everything they ever wanted from now on, or something.

[Triceron]

Idk how usefull this is, Knowing they are pressent on both factions already.

Personally I wouldnt perse say so. The high elves that renamed themselves blood elves still live there for as long as wow excists. Those exiles or other groups you are talking about that left made their home on other places and never bothered with Silvermoon. There is no real legitemate claim either.

That being said, pilgrims were already seen around the sunwell a while ago and now that we know they are walking around and are canon on both sides, I dont feel like we are missing anything here.

That's kind of dishonest since High Elves didn't exile themselves at all, there was literally no explanation for why they aren't in the city any more. There was a very half-hearted explanation that High Elves of Silvermoon got fel eyes and transitioned themselves into Blood Elves, while any non-Silvermoon High Elf retained their original depiction with no explanation for why they don't return to the capital. The High Elf lore was sparse and haphazard at best.

There has been no exploration in the lore as to why High Elves don't return to Silvermoon. There is no lore explaining why they don't bother with claiming it at all. It's not that they don't care to, it's that Blizzard has literally ignored the connection completely. And it's not too surprising, since they even forgot to have the Windrunner sisters meet each other till a short story in BFA.

This is the first expansion that has a High Elf centric theme to it. Reuniting scattered Elven Tribes, Quel'thalas as the main focus, and the three sisters having repertoire in previous expansions (BFA and SL) makes it prime for High Elf lore to be expanded on.

And given how Blizzard takes massive shortcuts to push out content, I wouldn't put it past them if Silvermoon was made neutral for the sake of putting more resources into a single major city revamp, instead of separate ones for the factions.

[Alanar]

There has been no exploration in the lore as to why High Elves don't return to Silvermoon. There is no lore explaining why they don't bother with claiming it at all. It's not that they don't care to, it's that Blizzard has literally ignored the connection completely. And it's not too surprising, since they even forgot to have the Windrunner sisters meet each other till a short story in BFA.

Then why do you think it should be more then it is currently?

You already gave an explanation why the high elves excists still and I think you have your anwser there. They are backround characters and personally I dont feel like we are missing that as of the latest additions when high elves were solved. People seem to make the group larger and more relevant then they are realistically.

[Triceron]

Then why do you think it should be more then it is currently?

I don't. Blizzard is literally implying it heavily. Scattered Elf Tribes, Quel'thalas as a focus, Reuniting Elves... We really gonna ignore the Elephant in the room?

Last I checked, there were (at least) three splintered Elven 'tribes' who all originate in Quel'thalas.

You already gave an explanation why the high elves excists still and I think you have your anwser there.

And guess what's changed? The announcement of Midnight and its features. We never had an expansion ln talking about reunification of Elves.

Again, why are we ignoring the elephant in the room? Why are we pretending Silvermoon has only ever existed as a Horde city? Midnight's announced features literally recognize scattered Elven factions being reunited in Quel'thalas. That would include High Elves in that conversation. These background characters are being brought to the forefront.

Same way Earthen have also existed in the background of lore, till we got an expansion that brought them to the forefront. Using previous precedent also says Earthen featuring in an expansion is not realistic because they never did before. Yet here we are. What I see here is tunnel vision on not wanting things to change, and overlooking the bigger picture of the changes that are already happening.

Blizzard isn't catering purely to the vocal minority when addressing playable races. No one asked for bearded female Dwarves on the Horde, and yet here we are. Blizzard is starting to focus on story niches which they want to tell, regardless of what players are asking for. That's the big picture here. Not them catering to voices or seeking to piss off fans or whatever hidden agenda. They just want to tell the stories they want to tell right now. As I pointed out earlier, these decisions are all a product of the developer's whims. None of us can quantify why Bearded Female Dwarves on the Horde was decided as a major feature for TWW, and none of us can quantify why they want the Elven tribes to be reunited in Midnight. We'll only ever know in retrospect, through dev post mortems. The lines between Red and Blue are getting blurred, this is the direction Blizzard has chosen to take, not controlled by any of us posters on MMO-C.

[Alanar]

Again, why are we ignoring the elephant in the room? Why are we pretending Silvermoon has only ever existed as a Horde city? Midnight's announced features literally recognize all Elven subfactions being reunited, which would include High Elves in that conversation. These background characters are being brought to the forefront.
are.

Our known elven groups arent really splintered. I speculated before about what those tribes could be, thats part of the speculation. But we already went over that part. You can read back on past speculations. I have my own idea about that, which I was discussing with zuben before.

I already explained that the blood elves who live there used to be the majority of the high elves. For as long as it excisted in wow its been that. Its not an elephant in the room, it has already been discussed multiple times. You are simply repeating it. High elves are playable and not relevant perse. Idk what else you want to add to this, but you make them bigger and more important then they are in wow. These backround characters are not perse being brought to the forefront. That would be void and blood elves and high elves are hanging in the middle. They are barely a people, that are now just pressent among both factions and thats it.

[Zuben]

Our known elven groups arent really splintered. I speculated before about what those tribes could be, thats part of the speculation. But we already went over that part. You can read back on past speculations. I have my own idea about that, which I was discussing with zuben before.

I already explained that the blood elves who live there used to be the majority of the high elves. For as long as it excisted in wow its been that. Its not an elephant in the room, it has already been discussed multiple times. You are simply repeating it. High elves are playable and not relevant perse. Idk what else you want to add to this, but you make them bigger and more important then they are in wow. These backround characters are not perse being brought to the forefront. That would be void and blood elves and high elves are hanging in the middle. They are barely a people, that are now just pressent among both factions and thats it.

They were formidable enough to form up the Silver Covenant, and with notable characters like Vereesa and Auric I expect they will have their place in Midnight too. Especially if there will be side-stories about political grievances. This would be the best expansion to explore those.

[Alanar]

They were formidable enough to form up the Silver Covenant, and with notable characters like Vereesa and Auric I expect they will have their place in Midnight too. Especially if there will be side-stories about political grievances. This would be the best expansion to explore those.

Idk how relevant the Silver covenant will be, but it could be possibility if they wanted to. I am not expecting it myself tho.
It could be so that we will get nods here and there and high npcs, showing us they are around or finding their way. It could also be explored in a differrnt chapters like we discussed. Personally its fine for a side story, but not so much the main deal.

Simply showing that they are pressent, would already help for the immersion and explain the player they are active on both sides.

[Triceron]

Our known elven groups arent really splintered.

Then which splintered Elf tribes in Quel'thalas would blizzard be talking about? New Elves that will be introduced in Quel'thalas for the sake of saving it? Occam's razor, it would be the ones who are already splintered in the lore, despite what you personally think about them. Void Elves, Blood Elves and High Elves are not unified in the slightest in the lore.

These backround characters are not perse being brought to the forefront. That would be void and blood elves and high elves are hanging in the middle. They are barely a people, that are now just pressent among both factions and thats it.

High Elves in the middle meaning what exactly? They're not exactly friendly with both sides, and if you are suggesting they are, then... They also have a stake in Silvermoon by means of already being integrated and represented by the Blood Elves through customizations. Meaning this fear of Blood Elves losing their identity is pointless since we're acknowledging High Elves within the ranks of the Blood Elves, through a mix of customizations (RP/headcanon) and ambiguous lore implying they could be neutral with the Blood Elves, enough to freely come and go as they please amongst the Horde, and of course, within Silvermoon.

I'd disagree with that theory though, since I consider the High Elves as their own faction in the lore, one represented by Vereesa. High Elves remain non-playable because of the whims of the developers, and I think they are part of the conversation of 'splintered Elf Tribes' since they are not canonically unified with either Void Elves or Blood Elves. If they haven't been absorbed to either side, they are splintered.


And let's put it this way - if you consider them to be background characters who are hanging in the middle, and generally see their presence in the lore as being insignificant, then what threat does that pose to Blood Elves losing any of their own culture by means of adding the High Elves to Silvermoon in the lore? Nothing is lost.

This is a parallel of the Council of Three Hammers and the addition of Dark Iron and Wildhammer to Ironforge. Nothing of the Bronzebeard culture was lost by the addition of the other Dwarf clans. It doesn't even matter if they end up adding Horde aligned Earthen to Ironforge.

Loss of BE culture seems to be an excuse for BE fans feeling bad for having to share their capital. I can understand the sentiment, but I frankly don't invest myself in defending either side of that argument since the faction lines are practically nonexistent by now, by Blizzard's own doing. I don't see Silvermoon becoming neutral being a good or bad thing for Horde, since I never saw the original decision to have Blood Elves on the Horde to be a good or bad thing to begin with. Where would we be in this conversation would be if Blood Elves had remained independent or with the Illidari? Would people still bitch at Blood Elves losing their culture for having Silvermoon become accessible to both Player factions?

[Evilfish]

They were formidable enough to form up the Silver Covenant, and with notable characters like Vereesa and Auric I expect they will have their place in Midnight too. Especially if there will be side-stories about political grievances. This would be the best expansion to explore those.

How about a story where Vareesa has to answer for all the belf mudering she's been doing. Silver Covenant are a joke, they haven't been used for anything aside being an ati-blood elf story device. They were involved in stories that the Belfs got and acted like the belfs were their mortal enemies being even more thirsty for belf blood than the greatest enemies the belfs ever faced which culminated into the slaughter of belfs in Dalaran.

Let's explore that story.

[Alanar]

Then which splintered Elf tribes in Quel'thalas would blizzard be talking about? New Elves that will be introduced in Quel'thalas for the sake of saving it? Occam's razor, it would be the ones who are already splintered in the lore, despite what you personally think about them. Void Elves, Blood Elves and High Elves are not unified in the slightest in the lore.

Who says its about them? But again, I would say read back, because I dont want to repeat the same conversation, but Scattered elven tribes is a weird name for elven kingdoms like blood elves or Nightborne for example. could also mean darkfallen or left over fell elves. This is again, part of the ongoing speculation. I still wouldnt call our main elf forces scattered, all have their own thing going.

I'd disagree with that though, since the High Elves are still treated as their own faction in the lore, one represented by Vereesa. High Elves remain non-playable because of the whims of the developers, and they are part of the conversation of 'splintered Elf Tribes' considering they are not unified with either Void Elves or Blood Elves. That's what hanging in the middle means to me. If they haven't been absorbed to either side, they are splintered.

Uhm..they are, they are playable on both factions. Its an rp kind of way and its canon according to blizz. I dont think you understand that part. I dont get why you are trying to push more out of this when there is none. They are absorbed into costumizations options. You can play exactly that. You dont need the silver covenant for that tbh. Wether there is story foe them in Midnight is all possible, but imo not required anymore as this issue was solved.

[Zuben]

Idk how relevant the Silver covenant will be, but it could be possibility if they wanted to. I am not expecting it myself tho.
It could be so that we will get nods here and there and high npcs, showing us they are around or finding their way. It could also be explored in a differrnt chapters like we discussed. Personally its fine for a side story, but not so much the main deal.

Simply showing that they are pressent, would already help for the immersion and explain the player they are active on both sides.

Personally I would love to finally have the injustice of the Purge recognized in-game. Jaina instigated it, but it was Vereesa's Silver Covenant that mostly carried it out. They especially had their part in the travesties, like feeding that Sunreaver to the shark in the sewers. High elves have their own gripes to throw at Bob's face, but the Purge is one Vereesa shouldn't get to handwave away. While at it, let's have Aethas called out for being the spineless little sh*t he is.

Auric is cool though. I liked how calm and diplomatic he is in the Quel'delar questline for cases where the player claiming the sword isn't a blood elf.

[Triceron]

Who says its about them?

Didn't you say it works both ways? Who says it won't be.

And they are scattered/splintered for the very reason of them all having their own thing going for them, instead of working as one.

It's a parallel of the Council of Three Hammers. We could also consider the Dwarf clans to be splintered, until they united under a single council. They also had their own thing going for them, and the Wildhammer were friendly terms with Bronzebeards, but they were not properly unified until Cataclysm, with further reinforcement in BFA.

Uhm..they are, they are playable on both factions. Its an rp kind of way and its canon according to blizz.

Is there a source of where this is canonized? I wasn't aware of any quests that made High Elves neutral to the Blood Elves. I was under the assumption they were purely unexplained cosmetic additions, like the Sand Trolls and Wildhammers.

[Vaedan]

How about a story where Vareesa has to answer for all the belf mudering she's been doing. Silver Covenant are a joke, they haven't been used for anything aside being an ati-blood elf story device. They were involved in stories that the Belfs got and acted like the belfs were their mortal enemies being even more thirsty for belf blood than the greatest enemies the belfs ever faced which culminated into the slaughter of belfs in Dalaran.

Let's explore that story.

This story was already explored in MoP and it had its climax in Throne of Thunder patch, where Lor'themar and Jaina eventually decided to walk away from "Circle of Hatred" when both were intercepted by Taran Zhu. It was the moment when Lor'themar himself decided to let this conflict go.
It was later brought back in Legion, when Sunreavers were brought back to Dalaran and helped to defend it from Legion.
In BfA, we were shown that Sunreavers who were not happy with Lor'themar's decision were part of Sylvanas loyalists... Which means these were probably either killed or imprisoned after Sylvanas turned traitor to the Horde.

I don't think Purge has any real potential anymore. Especially not when the actual game narrative is that of each faction learning how to overcome their grudges and hatred towards the other faction. We have Dragonflight expedition as a combined effort of Horde and Alliance. We have seen Shandris and Voss forming friendship, and we have gilneans working with forsaken to reclaim their kingdom.

I believe faction conflict is a thing of past now and most recent storylines heavily imply so. Given that, it is not really impossible that Midnight will provide similar conclusions to all thalassian groups. If night elves and worgen can overcome their distrust and hatred towards forsaken, I see no reason why it would be impossible for thalassians.

[Alanar]

Didn't you say it works both ways? Who says it won't be.

And they are scattered/splintered for the very reason of them all having their own thing going for them, instead of working as one...

It depends on who we are talking about really. We are unsure about that. I speculated It could mean something els es mentioned before. As for Thallasian elves, void elves are the only one that fall outside of that. They arent on best terms right now, so its hard to say they need to come together to begin with, they are traitors and on the alliance side, they literally made their own choice leaving the blood elves to begin with.. As of current lore, I doubt the blood elves even want to work together. Its doesnt really seem blood elves would benefit from either. These relations need to change in order to see any change.

Is there a source of where this is canonized? I wasn't aware of any quests that made High Elves neutral to the Blood Elves. I was under the assumption they were purely unexplained cosmetic additions, like the Sand Trolls and Wildhammers.

I will look it up for you later, I am at work and dont have time but yes this was mentioned a couple of times actually. Also in an interview I think. This was the big compromise for high elves to be playable. They are pressent on both factions, this was their solution. Its part as they called it, your inpretation matters and is canon. Same as how darkfallen work like san'layn. I never liked this way myself. Things like sand trolls and wildhammer fell flat here for example.