1. #26781
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    It depends on who we are talking about really. We are unsure about that. I speculated It could mean something els es mentioned before. As for Thallasian elves, void elves are the only one that fall outside of that. They arent on best terms right now, so its hard to say they need to come together to begin with, they are traitors and on the alliance side, they literally made their own choice leaving the blood elves to begin with.. As of current lore, I doubt the blood elves even want to work together. Its doesnt really seem blood elves would benefit from either. These relations need to change in order to see any change.
    Isn't the void threat the whole point of unification? There is a void invasion of Azeroth, Quel'thalas is the focus of the expansion, and the Sunwell is in need of protection. I wouldn't call that a case for Blood Elves to keep relations exactly the same. It is literally the catalyst for change, and directly implied to be the reason for unification.

    You need to unite the splintered Elven tribes and defend the Sunwell. Yet you think the Blood Elves have no reason to want to work together.... Why?

    Why are you ignoring the entire context of Midnight? You don't think there is enough concrete information, even though Blizzard implies Elven unification will be happening, and has given the motivating reasons why? Because we're not basing these speculation on 'current Blood Elf relations', they are all contextually specific to Midnight.

    They are pressent on both factions, this was their solution. Its part as they called it, your inpretation matters and is canon. Same as how darkfallen work like san'layn
    But even the Dark Ranger customizations are only canon to a certaib point. What is canon are the Dark Rangers returning to the fold. What isn't canonized is any other class combo for the Darkfallen skin; that remains to be addressed by lore. Like until we see Darkfallen Night Elf Druid NPCs or major characters presented in the game, I don't see those combos being canon. Same with Sand Trolls, I don't think there was lore for them at all.

    Wildhammer is supposedly canon, but I could never find the right source for it. I've only been taking people's word for it, since it seems collectively agreed upon even amongst lore buffs.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2024-04-09 at 03:22 PM.

  2. #26782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Isn't the void threat the whole point of unification? There is a void invasion of Azeroth, Quel'thalas is the focus of the expansion, and the Sunwell is in need of protection. I wouldn't call that a case for Blood Elves to keep relations exactly the same. It is literally the catalyst for change, and directly implied to be the reason for unification.

    You need to unite the splintered Elven tribes and defend the Sunwell. Yet you think the Blood Elves have no reason to want to work together.... Why?
    That seems to be the case yes. That is also how these theories came to be, because we know the void wants the sunwell. We dont know if that is the point, but that could entirely happen.

    Zuben had the idea to have this in a suramar type of experience, working in chapters and as the culminating thing would be the unification or working together, what ever it means. No, I said with current lore, knowing the void elves left by themselves and the issue with Alleria and the sunwell. They arent on friendly terms as it stands. That needs to be adressed as they are a danger according to the blood elf leader. Yes this could change completely, but we dont know any specifics regarding that. Using this system also allows for differrnt side chapters that could be used for meet ups with elves, amani trolls and other groups.

    I said it before, but its entirely possible in ends up we need those elves, because they can fight with fire (for example) and help defeat the void. Never said its not an option for the future.

  3. #26783
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    That seems to be the case yes. That is also how these theories came to be, because we know the void wants the sunwell. We dont know if that is the point, but that could entirely happen.

    Zuben had the idea to have this in a suramar type of experience, working in chapters and as the culminating thing would be the unification or working together, what ever it means. No, I said with current lore, knowing the void elves left by themselves and the issue with Alleria and the sunwell. They arent on friendly terms as it stands. That needs to be adressed as they are a danger according to the blood elf leader. Yes this could change completely, but we dont know any specifics regarding that. Using this system also allows for differrnt side chapters that could be used for meet ups with elves, amani trolls and other groups.

    I said it before, but its entirely possible in ends up we need those elves, because they can fight with fire (for example) and help defeat the void. Never said its not an option for the future.
    It's more than just possible, it's the literal goal of the expansion.

    The problem with trying to argue that things have to change first before Midnight comes to pass is that it becomes counter intuitive to Midnight's own goals. The whole point of that expansion is to explore a change in the Elven factions through the player's own actions. YOU, the PLAYER, are being tasked with reunification of the Elves. The Elves aren't doing this themselves, so implying that the current lore somehow needs to change makes absolutely no sense in the context of a new expansion that literally tasks the player to solve those very problems.

    You see how this is getting quite paradoxical, and the reason why an argument against Void Elves and Blood Elves uniting becomes quite counter intuitive if we start implying that they need to show some level of cooperation in current lore.

    If anything, raising the stakes of conflict between the Elven races would make the challenge of uniting them in Midnight all the more dramatically appealing. Again, it would be counter intuitive to challenge the player with unifying the Elves if they were already all willing to work together. And it is also counter intuitive to omit unification of the two major opposing Thallasian Elven factions for an expansion based around Quel'thalas and the Sunwell.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2024-04-09 at 03:41 PM.

  4. #26784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's more than just possible, it's the literal goal of the expansion.

    The problem with trying to argue that things have to change first before Midnight comes to pass is that it becomes counter intuitive to Midnight's own goals. The whole point of that expansion is to explore a change in the Elven factions, and our player being the direct reason for that change. YOU, the PLAYER, is being tasked with reunification of the Elves. The Elves aren't doing this themselves, so implying that the current lore somehow needs to change makes absolutely no sense in the context of a new expansion that literally tasks the player to solve those very problems.
    I just said that to be the case yes, so idk why you need to reafirm that.

    No its not, that will likely be part of a buildup, part of the story. You seriously expect to log in midnight and everyone is friendly out of nowhere without any story? Phat chance. This needs to have some context and underlying issues need to be resolved. We cant simply ignore Alleria being kicked out and being a danger lorewise. Hence I said I could see it as a culminating thing in the end. In what form or what kind of alliance it will be eventually is open for speculation. Part of this unification, is obviously how it came to be and why. That could happen in numerous ways, but I think that should exactly be part of the whole experience.

    There is no problem. You try to give it a nice spin there, but in reality yes the player does everything anyway so that is a meaningless discussion. We dont know how this will play out, but to say the elves arent doing anything or their leaders is kinda weird. Again, with current lore, this should absolutely be a thing and we cant say yes this will happen at the start either. It could absolutely have a buildup attached to it. It can make sense lorewise depending how they want to tell the story.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2024-04-09 at 04:16 PM.

  5. #26785
    To be fair, the minor "tribes" do have some unexplored lore this expansion could cater to with a questline or two. The Darkfallen, for example. Dark Rangers were always all about Sylvanas, but the other kind of undead elves flocked to her as well after the fall of the Scourge. Her exit left them perplexed, leading to some night elf ones going to the Alliance, while others remained among the Forsaken. With Forsaken having a connection to the Ghostlands, I think that zone ought to give the Darkfallen some development. Alliance can have it too from a different perspective.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

    But was where Dalaran?

  6. #26786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    To be fair, the minor "tribes" do have some unexplored lore this expansion could cater to with a questline or two. The Darkfallen, for example. Dark Rangers were always all about Sylvanas, but the other kind of undead elves flocked to her as well after the fall of the Scourge. Her exit left them perplexed, leading to some night elf ones going to the Alliance, while others remained among the Forsaken. With Forsaken having a connection to the Ghostlands, I think that zone ought to give the Darkfallen some development. Alliance can have it too from a different perspective.
    Yea, I think that could be a possible story arc as well. Now we know all undead elves ( san'layn,dark ranger,death knight) fall under the same banner it could be explored and part of a unification. These elves are actually scattered I agree. It does sounds interesting to me. It would also generate a story for Night elf dark rangers I think you are right.

    Maybe there are still fellblood elves on Quel'danas or hiding that are looking for a home/help. They also happen to be a fan favorite customization option people have been asking for.

    I remember @Tanaria that he mentioned this a couple times as well. There were more groups he mentioned, but Darkfallen was among those.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2024-04-09 at 04:12 PM.

  7. #26787
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Maybe there are still fellblood elves on Quel'danas or hiding that are looking for a home/help. They also happen to be a fan favorite customization option people have been asking for.
    With the addition of the Man'ari to the draenei selection this could be plausible.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

    But was where Dalaran?

  8. #26788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    With the addition of the Man'ari to the draenei selection this could be plausible.
    Ye, exactly like that.

  9. #26789
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    This story was already explored in MoP and it had its climax in Throne of Thunder patch, where Lor'themar and Jaina eventually decided to walk away from "Circle of Hatred" when both were intercepted by Taran Zhu. It was the moment when Lor'themar himself decided to let this conflict go.
    It was later brought back in Legion, when Sunreavers were brought back to Dalaran and helped to defend it from Legion.
    In BfA, we were shown that Sunreavers who were not happy with Lor'themar's decision were part of Sylvanas loyalists... Which means these were probably either killed or imprisoned after Sylvanas turned traitor to the Horde.

    I don't think Purge has any real potential anymore. Especially not when the actual game narrative is that of each faction learning how to overcome their grudges and hatred towards the other faction. We have Dragonflight expedition as a combined effort of Horde and Alliance. We have seen Shandris and Voss forming friendship, and we have gilneans working with forsaken to reclaim their kingdom.

    I believe faction conflict is a thing of past now and most recent storylines heavily imply so. Given that, it is not really impossible that Midnight will provide similar conclusions to all thalassian groups. If night elves and worgen can overcome their distrust and hatred towards forsaken, I see no reason why it would be impossible for thalassians.
    So like I said, this gets moped under the rug. Let's pretend Vareesa didn't kill large numbers of befls. Or Umbric for that matter. It's all good? That it?

  10. #26790
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    So like I said, this gets moped under the rug. Let's pretend Vareesa didn't kill large numbers of befls. Or Umbric for that matter. It's all good? That it?
    It is certainly topic which some blood elves might feel bad about, but as you said, it was swept under the rug by Lor'themar himself. He was even willing to work with Jaina several times afterwards, especially in Eternal Palace. Also captured Sunreavers were freed/released and later readmitted back to Dalaran, so yea... There is not much to do with this storyline anymore.

    You should also remember that both Sunreavers and Silver Covenant were at each others throats for years before Purge, with each group more than happy to kill buch of the other elves during Argent Tournament dailies... So not that what transpired during Purge was unexpected. Silver Covenant just happened to finaly get upper hand and were supported by leader of Dalaran. If Sunreavers were in their shoes, I am pretty certain they would act pretty similarly.

    That is not what WoW narrative is nowadays, though. Each race seem to focus on overcoming their prejudices and grudges and accept people of the other faction. It is even reinforced by faction armistice and more aggressive faction leaders (Tyrande, Genn) stepping down.
    Do I like it? Not entirely, I believe removing drama and tension from races actually homogenize them into group of friends of various shapes and colors, but no other real distinction. I am afraid most races will lost their edges, but it is what it is... and I think high/blood/void elves will be affected by this in Midnight.

  11. #26791
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I just said that to be the case yes, so idk why you need to reafirm that.

    No its not, that will likely be part of a buildup, part of the story. You seriously expect to log in midnight and everyone is friendly out of nowhere without any story? Phat chance. This needs to have some context and underlying issues need to be resolved. We cant simply ignore Alleria being kicked out and being a danger lorewise. Hence I said I could see it as a culminating thing in the end. In what form or what kind of alliance it will be eventually is open for speculation. Part of this unification, is obviously how it came to be and why. That could happen in numerous ways, but I think that should exactly be part of the whole experience.
    I'm thoroughly confused on where you actually stand here.

    We both acknowledge unification will happen. We both understand that no one knows how or why it will happen (and the reasons are not relevant to acknowledging unification will happen).

    Why would you bring up 'ignoring Alleria being a danger' when this has never been part of anyone's argument? I'm not sure what point you're making here since it either sounds like you're either missing the point I've made, or are attacking a strawman, since I have never indicated that any Elves should be 'friendly at the start of Midnight'. I addressed your comments concerning a lack of reasons for VE/BE to unify 'based on current lore', when that is irrelevant to the knowledge that unification of Elven tribes in Quel'thalas will be the theme of Midnight. It doesn't matter how it happens, we still acknowledge that it would be happening.


    We can say that we don't know exactly who all the splintered tribes would include, but it doesn't make any sense to exclude Blood Elves, Void Elves and High Elves from this conversation. It would be counter intuitive to announce a return to Quel'thalas and a reunification of splintered tribes, and then let Blood Elves and Void Elves 'maintain their course based on current lore'. That is counter intuitive to everything revealed about Midnight; there is no purpose to announce a reunification of Elves and a return to Quel'thalas, while excluding any unification of Blood and Void Elves.

    There is no need to claim Blood Elf or Void Elf to be the subject matter of Midnight, because Blizzard has directly implied that to be the case. A reunification of Elves in Quel'thalas that doesn't involve Blood Elves or Void Elves would be raising false expectations for literally no good reason. There is no sense to announce Midnight as an elven unification expansion if it intended to exclude VE and BE.

    We dont know how this will play out, but to say the elves arent doing anything or their leaders is kinda weird.
    We don't need to know how it plays out, and we don't need to know what their leaders are doing, to know that Elven unification (by the Player) is a planned outcome of the story for Midnight.

    The only difference is they didn't mention all factions by name, so there is wiggle room to speculate more Elves being integrated, like Darkfallen, or even Night Elf and Nightborne or even Naga if need be. At no point does it make sense to exclude Blood Elf or Void Elf from the conversation..

    If they intended to only address Darkfallen and other minor tribes and exclude Void and Blood Elf relations, then they would have worded it in a way that doesn't ambiguously apply to Void Elf and Blood Elf. What we know about Midnight is not as ambiguous as you want it to argue it to be.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2024-04-09 at 09:55 PM.

  12. #26792
    Actually, Silvermoon is not entirely a Blood Elf city. Only half of it is a Blood Elf city. The other half is deserted and ruined.

    Furthermore, Dalaran was an Alliance capital made Neutral, then Alliance-only, and then Neutral again.

    Silvermoon will obviously be a shared Neutral city.
    The illustrious Alliance of Stormwind is driven by tradition, nobility, and faith. They are staunch defenders of justice and duty who protect the realm of Azeroth against any aggressors, including the savage Horde. In a time when chaos and uncertainty reign, the Alliance remains steadfast in its determination to illuminate the darkest corners of the world and preserve order in Azeroth.
    — Blizzard Entertainment

  13. #26793
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Actually, Silvermoon is not entirely a Blood Elf city. Only half of it is a Blood Elf city. The other half is deserted and ruined.

    Furthermore, Dalaran was an Alliance capital made Neutral, then Alliance-only, and then Neutral again.

    Silvermoon will obviously be a shared Neutral city.
    The horde and alliance are at peace. So it'll be a horde city, with alliance allowed to pass through.

  14. #26794
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    The horde and alliance are at peace. So it'll be a horde city, with alliance allowed to pass through.
    The Horde does not control the entirety of Silvermoon. It only controls half of it.

    They do not have the authority to decide who is allowed to pass through Silvermoon as half of it is deserted and ruined.
    The illustrious Alliance of Stormwind is driven by tradition, nobility, and faith. They are staunch defenders of justice and duty who protect the realm of Azeroth against any aggressors, including the savage Horde. In a time when chaos and uncertainty reign, the Alliance remains steadfast in its determination to illuminate the darkest corners of the world and preserve order in Azeroth.
    — Blizzard Entertainment

  15. #26795
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Yea, I think that could be a possible story arc as well. Now we know all undead elves ( san'layn,dark ranger,death knight) fall under the same banner it could be explored and part of a unification. These elves are actually scattered I agree. It does sounds interesting to me. It would also generate a story for Night elf dark rangers I think you are right.

    Maybe there are still fellblood elves on Quel'danas or hiding that are looking for a home/help. They also happen to be a fan favorite customization option people have been asking for.

    I remember @Tanaria that he mentioned this a couple times as well. There were more groups he mentioned, but Darkfallen was among those.
    Darkfallen, Sunfury, Illidari, Scryers...potential for Felblood Elves to also be included and for Felblood Elf features to be given to Blood Elves only.

    Nobody can argue against this because Draenei essentially got Burning Legion hierarchy. Burning Legion assistants are nowhere near the level of "bad" than the Man'ari so Felblood Elves, Felborne and Fel Orcs along with the Man'ari Eredar should be given as extra features.

    Akin to the Night Elf Demon Hunter story in Amirdrassil, Blood Elves Demon Hunters can easily offer a quest where they rescue Felblood Elves from either Argus, Outland...Exodar...Tempest Keep and with that, Blood Elves get Felblood Elf features.
    Alliance fans can't gatekeep Horde things in Midnight and so Blood Elves should get something for themselves which isn't shared with Void Elves. Since Void Elves can't be Demon Hunters and can't get fel features, Felblood Elves should just be a Blood Elf thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    You are bullied, because they know you are right. Silvermoon is a big part of the blood elves, always has been. You fought, but the shouting is overwhelming.. we arent like that.
    True.

    There's only so much I can take until the Alliance Elf Fanbase just start being so condescending and saying horrible crap like "If you play Horde, your RL morality is questionable." That is a diabolical thing to say and should warrant a permanent suspension.

  16. #26796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Actually, Silvermoon is not entirely a Blood Elf city. Only half of it is a Blood Elf city. The other half is deserted and ruined.

    Furthermore, Dalaran was an Alliance capital made Neutral, then Alliance-only, and then Neutral again.

    Silvermoon will obviously be a shared Neutral city.
    It shows you actually never played the Blood elf starting experience beyond your hate stick going against anything elf related on the Horde lmao. Falconwing Square is Blood elf controlled and our actual enemy there are wretched you can kill with ease. The whole city is blood elf turf so it is to be decided by the blood elf leadership if any high elf and their allies would be allowed inside its walls again. Which is questionable since they sold their souls out for the premise of being armcandy for your stereotypical male human paladin hero when current Quel'thalas is an idepandant nation that has proven many times they are their own race not to be forced into service and stepping aside for others. That is the common debate here and the bad faith coems to pass any time the topic is pushed from nirvana again.

  17. #26797
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    It shows you actually never played the Blood elf starting experience beyond your hate stick going against anything elf related on the Horde lmao. Falconwing Square is Blood elf controlled and our actual enemy there are wretched you can kill with ease. The whole city is blood elf turf so it is to be decided by the blood elf leadership if any high elf and their allies would be allowed inside its walls again. Which is questionable since they sold their souls out for the premise of being armcandy for your stereotypical male human paladin hero when current Quel'thalas is an idepandant nation that has proven many times they are their own race not to be forced into service and stepping aside for others. That is the common debate here and the bad faith coems to pass any time the topic is pushed from nirvana again.
    Falconwing Square is just that. One square. There is no evidence that the Blood Elves reclaimed the other half of their city. Baseless headcanon.

    Now can the resident Mod of this section bring this thread back to its intended purpose? High Elves? I'm really tired of all this incessant and pointless talk about Blood Elves in a High Elf thread. @Aucald

    This is supposed to be thread celebrating High Elves and High Elves exclusively. If someone for some strange reason wanted to celebrate Blood Elves, there's an appropriate thread elsewhere.
    The illustrious Alliance of Stormwind is driven by tradition, nobility, and faith. They are staunch defenders of justice and duty who protect the realm of Azeroth against any aggressors, including the savage Horde. In a time when chaos and uncertainty reign, the Alliance remains steadfast in its determination to illuminate the darkest corners of the world and preserve order in Azeroth.
    — Blizzard Entertainment

  18. #26798
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    Your high elf celebration feeds of the idea the blood elves should lose control over their own Capital in order to be complete or happy. So no we don't stop if you keep arguing in bad faith and provoke non high elf fans on purpose.

  19. #26799
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Your high elf celebration feeds of the idea the blood elves should lose control over their own Capital in order to be complete or happy. So no we don't stop if you keep arguing in bad faith and provoke non high elf fans on purpose.
    Blood Elves don't have control over half of their capital.

    Also, if you're not a High Elf fan, don't click on the High Elf megathread?
    The illustrious Alliance of Stormwind is driven by tradition, nobility, and faith. They are staunch defenders of justice and duty who protect the realm of Azeroth against any aggressors, including the savage Horde. In a time when chaos and uncertainty reign, the Alliance remains steadfast in its determination to illuminate the darkest corners of the world and preserve order in Azeroth.
    — Blizzard Entertainment

  20. #26800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Blood Elves don't have control over half of their capital.

    Also, if you're not a High Elf fan, don't click on the High Elf megathread?
    So you can pass through the western parts of the city without attacked by the guard NPCs? Try it and record it. This should be fun.

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