Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

No,wrong.

These two are two seprate elven races. They are not the same race.
High elves used to be night elves.

Yeah, and Blood elves used to be High elves that was my point

[Ersula]

But saying that the High elves (or Queldorei) are on both sides is factually wrong. That's an Alliance group of elves. Otherwise we can also consider that blood elves are part of the Alliance too (that was already the case on Telogrus Rift but anyways).

If you were to say "High Elves" in-universe, most people would assume you meant the high elves that are part of the alliance or unaffiliated. But Void Elves & Blood elves are both kinds of High Elves, and frankly they are the most common kinds of High Elf. Nothing about their heritage or ethnicity actually changed when they announced themselves as Blood elves. Nuance can exist inside a fantasy setting. And turns out, ethnicity & race is actually a really complicated thing with a lot of grey area, especially when it comes to terminology.

Also, considering the use of the term, Night Elves would undoubtably use Quel'dorei to refer to the Nightborne, as well. Remember, Quel'dorei also referred to the elves of Dire Maul even though they're closer, ethnically & physically, to Night Elves.

[elbleuet]

Stop feed the troll.

On topic of thread - I wish that Alliance and Horde high elves will not merge in any sense. With current dev tram who is insanely Alliance aligned - we can see Alleria as queen of Quel'thalas after midnight. Just to make Horde players suffer from cringe.

That would be a good idea. Still better than Lor'Themar Theron if you ask me.

[Alanar]

It's not that the option isn't there, it's more that I'm not sure Lor'themar allowed the High Elves back in. He kicked them out for a reason. I could be missing some lore though but as far as I know, being a High Elf in Silvermoon would be asking to get arrested by the guards.

Of course this only matters if your RP is lore-abiding, which plenty of people arent/don't care. Hence why it's more my personal opinion about it being kinda eh.

I think we are passed that a long time ago. We have seen high elf pilgrim going and near the Sunwell in Wrath. You can rp that you have returned.

[Mace]

No, The high elves or Quel'dorei is nothing more, but the name of the race. You have high elves who didn't rename themselves, yes so they kept calling themselves high elves. The rest that name changed simply didn't do that. The political difference is simply a difference within their race. You are speaking of factions only.

The high elves excists as a playable RP option on both sides. Outside their difference, there is no physicall difference that blocks it from playing them anymore. Blue eyes make sense on the horde as well as explained multiple times.

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Exactly, factions.

You mean the bfa ones in Zuldazar? Ye they are just nightborne models, using highborne title I never understood that.

High elf is both a racial name and faction name. We've noticed this many times for several races, it is the same with night elves, night elf race and The Night Elf faction. Just because people either use them interchangeably without noticing the difference is their problem.

Blood elves are high elves (the race) but they are not the High Elf factions which include the like of the Silver Covenant and those who refer to themselves as High Elves whether that nation or identity is lost or subsumed by the blood elf.

As for the Nightborne, it isn't hard, not all Nightborne are Highborne, while it may have been intended to be the racial form for Highborne - we only say that because we really wanted it and i seems to be that way, but in actual fact, the night elves of Suramar are not all Highborne, you have lowborne, in the commons area and west side of the city - the disguised player character is not like the only lowborne in the city that has appeared for the first time in 10,000 years... seriously players simply don't use their heads.

Clearly you have a Highborne elite amongst the Nightborne and it is likely the elite section. However the lack of the use of this demarkation before the liberation of Suramar indicates that they picked up their Highborne identity once more once exposed to other elves. Not all night elves are Highborne - only the Shen'dralar and those amongst the Darnassians that returned tot he caste + the new ones appointed by the Shen'dralar consider themselves Highborne amongst the night elves.


Now High elves don't really have that distinction anymore, having become high elves, descendants of Highborne Sunstriders.. you could say they are the official race of Highborne, but you can't say that, because they are no longer night elves, hence we call them high elves, and the actual night elven caste retains the name Highborne.

Highborne only really means something amongst the night elven lot. Although it is likely that all Thalassian elves when relating to night elves, identify themselves WITH the Highborne as a stuck up mark of demarkation they wouldn't identify themselves AS Highborne.

So Highborne relates to a very specific kaldorei cultural and societal hierarchy/rank - and only exists within that race. Nightborne are the most pristine version of that culture so, it isn't surprising it is still relevant, and off course it is so amongst the Shen'dralar. The new Darnassian Highborne are not just a caste, but an order - so they hold relevance amongst the Darnassian faction as the mage class order, but amongst their own faction of night elves, it is so.

In real life times, it's like say England, the Night Elves (faction now - that we call Darnassians) are like Modern day England, the nobility aren't relevant any more nor do we call them a caste in our society, the Highborne are like our current nobility, where identifying as such is really only relevant to them as it means little to no one. They hold no state power, but if most of them were wealthy and highly talented - that would be the Highborne - they would continue to insist they are nobility and that means something to them, maybe even try and restore lost pride and relevance. They may hold themselves apart as a nation within a nation and adhere to the very high standards, wealth, power and excellence that made them who they were - but they can no longer Lord it over other folk or rule them even if they keep to all the original ways. Now, those who went to America would be like the high elves, exiled or fled, found new land, except they were all nobles, so in their new place are all equals once more, they found a new society, of equality but hold a lot of similarities to British/Irish culture they are from.. Not necessarily the same hierarchal structure though they have a king, it's different - everyone is or was noble i.e. Highborne here, however they still hold things like magic dear, high stands, working towards civilization and rebuilding with the same ethos they had as Highborne night elves or they had as English/Scottish/Irish /Welsh nobility. Now the Nightborne would be like one of the channel islands recently back in the world where things still operate as they did in medieval England, in, even with super advanced technology, they still follow the English ways of that time before the great wars. They are an independent group of Brits, holding to the "right way" and govern themselves, but currently are more allied with the Americans they befriended than their own countrymen. Not a perfect analogy - but gets the jist.

For those who are not as familiar with the Highborne lore, amongst the northern night elves, Tyrande initially disbanded the caste as well as the old hierarchy system of the civilization that was in effect before the sundering, later the Highborne were banned as a caste, presumably the Sunstriders had chosen to retake the banned identity. However there were Highborne in the two night elf cities of Suramar (where the northern faction originated from), and Eldre'thalas. After the Legion's return and there was no more any reason to ban the arcane for spells, the ban on the Highborne was lifted, and the Darnassians made an alliance with the Shen'dralar who would be in charge of mage services for the elves, however in the deal they brokered, the Shen'dralar would not have to integrate or be assimilated into the Darnassian factions new culture, and would have total control over arcane magical matters without restrictions or reservations. They would also be the ones to pick their recruits and those they chose would become a part of their faction (and presumably culture). At the end of Wolfheart when the caste is now accepted as an ally, we are told that many Darnassians who had once been Highborne but had put off that identity and their arcane skills as Moonguard or mages to uphold the ban they all agreed was for the good of the world, returned to their original culture and identity.

It is these returned Highborne, only a few weeks back in training that are the ones that go out to support the night elf war effort in Azshara, they are the ones instructing recruits in Azshara- Instructor Amberwind is a returned Highborne, not a Shen'dralar, and the Lorekeepers the horde fights that are so rusty in magic, are confirmed by blizzard to be returned Darnassians.

Cataclysm shows several large school of night elves electing to become mages, and the lore confirms that there were also many new recruits. The ban on the arcane hadn't stopped many from being born with the aptitude for it. I can imagine these night elves would not have been particularly good at druidism or Elunism, or who knows, may have been, but not had the passion, unaware of the arcane, I would imagine on finding out they would have taken to it fantastically.

People forget that the night elf hasn't changed, it's not been genetically altered, the same incredible talent that built that arcane wonder period, and caused the arcane talented to be appointed Highborne by the Queen would be amongst the populace in the north as much as it would have been amongst newborn in Eldre'thalas or Suramar, and unlike those 2 cities, those in the North would have been continuously bathed in the energies of the Well of Eternity and the Moonwells made from them - so would have all this magical potential liying dormant or, as the Thalassians often scorned, WASTED !!

Currently, it is unknown how they are amongst the Darnassian group since Teldrassil's destruction. We can extrapolate theirs would be the faction with the highest survival rate, simply because they were either away working with the Kirin'tor [see WoD, Legion, BFA] and if in Teldrassil, would have been on portal duty to evacuate others. Only 3 of them were killed in the War of thorns, and you can read about their fate in the short novel Elegy.

We don't see them in the Battle for Darkshore, howeer we see them amongst the alliance assault mages in BFA. Since then, we haven't seen them until the one who becomes a sentinel from the Heritage questline and then the leader of the Shen'dralar Mordant Evenshade who appears in Amirdrassil after making the portals. There are also a couple in the BFA cinematic - which is the first time we've seen night elven mages in a wow cinematic.

My conclusion is while they are allied with the Darnassians, they are still their own separate group, likely more tied to the Daranssians than the Cenarion circle night elf druids, but it is also clear they are the only night elves other than druids you see outside of night elf zones, but that has been since WoD. There was the rogue night elf captain in MoP - the rest of the night elves outside their areaa regular adventuerer would meet has been a druid one and on 3 occassions, a demon hunter one, one occassion a sentinel one. [excluding the BFA night elf troops which had no Highborne mage or Illidari demon hunter troops. The night elf mages we saw were part of the alliance special forces, not the Darnassian forces, and the Illidari ones were part of the Illidari faction forces, not the Darnassian ones.

[Alanar]

Yeah, and Blood elves used to be High elves that was my point

No, lets go back because you are ignoring what I said.

You are saying all elves are the same race. That is what you are saying.

And that is were you are completely, utterly wrong.

[elbleuet]

If you were to say "High Elves" in-universe, most people would assume you meant the high elves that are part of the alliance or unaffiliated. But Void Elves & Blood elves are both kinds of High Elves. Nothing about their heritage or ethnicity actually changed when they announced themselves as Blood elves. Nuance can exist inside a fantasy setting. And turns out, ethnicity & race is actually a really complicated thing with a lot of grey area, especially when it comes to terminology.

I completely agree with you. The only difference between High elves and blood elves is political (and philosophical to a lesser extend).

It was said High elves do try to maintain their ancient, old traditions. I don't know if it's still the case.

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No, lets go back because you are ignoring what I said.

You are saying all elves are the same race. That is what you are saying.

And that is were you are completely wrong.

I'm not. You just refuse to see the facts and to answer to my examples

[Alanar]

I'm not. You just refuse to see the facts and to answer to my examples

Yes you are, you said they are all the same race.

You are refusing to admit that you are wrong.

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High elves and Night elves for example are the same race but not the same group.

This is what you said and it's completely wrong.

The kul'tiran example you gave is really stupid, because they are a treated as their own race, go look in the character select screen.

You have been refusing facts and canon lore ever since this started. So it's on you here, facts.

[Rhlor]

It's not that the option isn't there, it's more that I'm not sure Lor'themar allowed the High Elves back in. He kicked them out for a reason. I could be missing some lore though but as far as I know, being a High Elf in Silvermoon would be asking to get arrested by the guards.

Of course this only matters if your RP is lore-abiding, which plenty of people arent/don't care. Hence why it's more my personal opinion about it being kinda eh.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_Elf_Pilgrim
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Captain_Auric_Sunchaser
the high elves may return from wotlk quest queldelar and auric is the high elf representative

[elbleuet]

This is what you said and it's completely wrong.

The kul'tiran example you gave is really stupid, because they are a treated as their own race, go look in the character select screen.

So Void elves are a different race because they're in the character select screen

Hahaha

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https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_Elf_Pilgrim
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Captain_Auric_Sunchaser
the high elves may return from wotlk quest queldelar and auric is the high elf representative

Yes. That's why Silvermoon is more a less a neutral territory now and will become one officially in Midnight now that Silver Covenant elves have nowhere to take refuge.

[Alanar]

Night elves, blood elves, High elves, void elves, shaldorei are all part of the same race.

@Ersula, it's not really about wether high elves and blood elves are the same race/political etc.
The point is really, that he is arguing that all elves are the same race. This is false, because that only counts for blood/high elves here.

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So Void elves are a different race because they're in the character select screen

Hahaha
.

Yes, that is how the game treats it.

Also: They were physiologically changed by the void./altered.

It’s not the same as the high/blood elf political differences.

[Rhlor]

So Void elves are a different race because they're in the character select screen

Hahaha

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Yes. That's why Silvermoon is more a less a neutral territory now and will become one officially in Midnight now that Silver Covenant elves have nowhere to take refuge.

Territorial control and security in that quest was still in charge of Halduron.
The ruler of Quelthalas is Lorthemar, a member of the Horde Council. Quelthalas is horde territory

[elbleuet]

@Ersula, it's not really about wether high elves and blood elves are the same race/political etc.
The point is really, that he is arguing that all elves are the same race. This only counts for blood/high elves.

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Yes, that is how the game treats it.

Also: They were physiologically changed by the void./altered.

It’s not the same as the high/blood elf political differences.

Again.. ha-ha.

So you're confusing gameplay and lore. That does not help.

Blood elves have also been altered by the fel

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Territorial control and security in that quest was still in charge of Halduron.
The ruler of Quelthalas is Lorthemar, a member of the Horde Council. Quelthalas is horde territory

Not for long

[Alanar]

Also, considering the use of the term, Night Elves would undoubtably use Quel'dorei to refer to the Nightborne, as well. Remember, Quel'dorei also referred to the elves of Dire Maul even though they're closer, ethnically & physically, to Night Elves.

I think they would just refer Nightborne to Shal'dorei, not so much Quel'dorei.

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So you're confusing gameplay and lore. That does not help.

Blood elves have also been altered by the fel

A mere radiation, which ended up being s simple eye color difference and in fact is not relevant, but also simply not comparable. Like I said, it's not the same as high/blood elf. This is also the third random argument you are trying to give, while.. ignoring the fact you said this:

Night elves, blood elves, High elves, void elves, shaldorei are all part of the same race.

stop being a troll.

[elbleuet]

I think they would just refer Nightborne to Shal'dorei, not so much Quel'dorei.

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A mere radiation, which ended up being s simple eye color difference and in fact is not relevant, but also simply not comparable. Like I said, it's not the same as high/blood elf. This is also the third random argument you are trying to give, while.. ignoring the fact you said this:

stop being a troll.

I was just showing up your stupid argument when you told me void elves were a different race from blood elves whereas they're not

"but but blood elves that's not comparable"

That's not comparable when that doesn't suit you

[Alanar]

I was just showing up your stupid argument when you told me void elves were a different race from blood elves whereas they're not

"but but blood elves that's not comparable"

That's not comparable when that doesn't suit you

I am not sure what you are saying..to be fair.

I have been asking you to get back on the topic, but you keep bringing up useless arguments and now are saying that it doesn't suit me? None of what you are saying makes sense. You are trolling.

[elbleuet]

I am not sure what you are saying..to be fair.


I have been asking you to get back on the topic, but you keep bringing up useless arguments, (which I countered) and now are saying that it doesnt suit me? None of what I said is my opinion really.. the problem is, none of what you are saying makes sense.

I'm not bringing useless arguments. You just refuse to understand them.

Saying blood elves are a different race from void elves is a nonsense whereas both groups have been altered by either the void or the fel, and both groups have elves freed from corruption.
Saying Kul'Tirans are a different race from other humans because they appear on the character select screen is a stupid argument

I could go on and go on

[Alanar]

So you're confusing gameplay and lore.

This makes no sense..

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I'm not bringing useless arguments. You just refuse to understand them.

Saying blood elves are a different race from void elves is a nonsense whereas both groups have been altered by either the void or the fel, and both groups have elves freed from corruption.
Saying Kul'Tirans are a different race from other humans because they appear on the character select screen is a stupid argument

I could go on and go on

Nope, you did that. The point was still this, which was this about. All the things, kultiran.. etc was just shit you brought up randomly lol.
I don't care dude, but you are simply trolling here.

Night elves, blood elves, High elves, void elves, shaldorei are all part of the same race.

[elbleuet]

This makes no sense..

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Nope, you did that. The point was still this, which was this about. All the things, kultiran.. etc was just shit you brought up randomly lol.
I don't care dude, but you are simply trolling here.

I'm not. But since you think I am, let's end up this debate.

[Alanar]

I'm not. But since you think I am, let's end up this debate.

You are, by ignoring it again. But sure lets end it here,

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High elf is both a racial name and faction name.

Yes correct.

It really shouldnt be that confusing imo. Blood elf/high elf is the only situation here, were we truly can say they are the same race of elves. So the race is simply high elf, which is devived into different groups which some didnt rename themselves after their fallen bretheren and kept using the name high elf. The reasons why, are not very important.

The other elven races, besides void elves are not the same. High elf is a different elven race then say Kaldorei.