Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Zuben]

That’s why I said at the time, IE tbc-mop when we got all the high/blood elf lore.

Prior to the legion/chronicles cosmic chart retcon Fel was just corrupted arcane magic made through the drain and burning of life force.

I can't remember if Fel was described as that in the olden days (at least the blood elf manatap racial or the manatapping in the TBC cinematic didn't have any green effects), but regardless, it's not that anymore. The exiled high elves didn't want to manatap living beings, i.e. animals. Nothing to do with Fel as it stands, they're simply mana-vegans. Bob exiled them, because besides an ideological difference they posed a security risk, as they ran the risk of turning Wretched—there were no surefire methods to fend off their addiction besides manatapping, which was a new thing Rommath brought from Outland. Their society was on the brink of complete collapse at the time, so them's the breaks, and Bob did regret it later.

No comment from me whether SC elves are right to be mad or not, but they do carry sins of their own. Since I play a blood elf myself, I'm inclined to flip the bird at their attitude.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

For someone arguing about others inserting fanfiction into the discussion you make quite a few assumptions. Like it being clear from that snippet that vereesa was exiled back then when we have no basis for that. Vereesa was barely in Silvermoon in her adult life. Hard to exile her for that.

Veressa is exiled, the only reason that has ever been gone for high elf exile (prior to BFA) was the mana tapping thing, and Veressa is mentioned when they are talking about exiling the high elfs for the mana tapping thing.

The only assumption on my part is that she is exiled for the only reason that has ever been given for exiling because she was mentioned when they were talking about that reason.

She was literally an ambassador for Dalaran. of course she was Alliance. Neutral Dalaran wasn't a thing prior to WotLK.

and her exile isn’t mentioned until cata which is post wrath when she is only a member of Dalaran which is neutral and not a enemy of silvermoon.

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Bob exiled them, because besides an ideological difference they posed a security risk, as they ran the risk of turning Wretched—there were no surefire methods to fend off their addiction besides manatapping, which was a new thing Rommath brought from Outland. Their society was on the brink of complete collapse at the time, so them's the breaks, and Bob did regret it later.

Wretched are not withered you don’t turn into one from not feeding your addiction you turn into one from man’s tapping to much. If the blood elfs didn’t want wretched having the high elfs not man’s tapping would be the best way to do it.

They were exiled solely because Lor’thamar “couldn’t lead a nation divided” and the divide was rather to tap the living or not.

[Jaggler]

Veressa is exiled, the only reason that has ever been gone for high elf exile (prior to BFA) was the mana tapping thing, and Veressa is mentioned when they are talking about exiling the high elfs for the mana tapping thing.

The only assumption on my part is that she is exiled for the only reason that has ever been given for exiling because she was mentioned when they were talking about that reason.

and her exile isn’t mentioned until cata which is post wrath when she is only a member of Dalaran which is neutral and not a enemy of silvermoon.

Vereesa isn't part of neutral Dalaran. When Dalaran decided to become neutral, she established an Alliance organization in direct response and opposition to Silvermoon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Vereesa isn't part of neutral Dalaran. When Dalaran decided to become neutral, she established an Alliance organization in direct response and opposition to Silvermoon

Let’s pretend this is true, if the sun reavers and silverconvent aren’t part of neutral Dal how was it a betrayal of dalaran neutrality when the sunreavers helped the horde at theramore and with the bell?

[Jaggler]

Let’s pretend this is true, if the sun reavers and silverconvent aren’t part of neutral Dal how was it a betrayal of dalaran neutrality when the sunreavers helped the horde at theramore and with the bell?

Don't gaslight me with "let's pretend this is true" lol.

Both the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers were part of their factions' respective Northrend expeditions and part of the Alliance and Horde. Dalaran as a central governing body was neutral.

The Sunreavers betrayed Kirin Tor neutrality, because they used Kirin Tor ressources to conjure up the portal to Darnassus to steal the bell.

[Enrif]

Let’s pretend this is true, if the sun reavers and silverconvent aren’t part of neutral Dal how was it a betrayal of dalaran neutrality when the sunreavers helped the horde at theramore and with the bell?

Even if the Sunreavers were not part of Dalarans neutrality. Using the neutral city for actions against an enemy that has also a presence in the same city can be seen as a breach of trust between the dalaran government and the sunreavers living there, and would give reason to exile them at the minimum.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Don't gaslight me with "let's pretend this is true" lol.

posing a hypothetical isn’t gaslighting, I obviously think your wrong in not trying to hide it.

Both the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers were part of their factions' respective Northrend expeditions and part of the Alliance and Horde. Dalaran as a central governing body was neutral.

At the founding, Aethas is repping the Kirin tor not the horde.

"If you are going to Northrend, will you also support the Kirin—"

"The Kirin Tor can do whatever they damn well please—it is no concern of mine," Lor'themar snapped. "But seeing as any number of sin'dorei forces will shortly be heading north, I expect many of them will likely end up on your doorstep. You will do what you can to aid them, Aethas. Now go find Rommath. I am sure he will have much use for you." Lor'themar's contempt finally bested him. "I suppose you should be pleased, Archmage."

Rommath Is even mocking there neutrality prior to the purge

However, they've also found out that the "neutral" Sunreavers of Dalaran were complicit. Now, we've got a situation.

Both groups were part of the Kirin tor and neutral they had leading towards each factions obviously but are suppose to keep to Dal’s neutrality, which they did until mop.

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Even if the Sunreavers were not part of Dalarans neutrality. Using the neutral city for actions against an enemy that has also a presence in the same city can be seen as a breach of trust between the dalaran government and the sunreavers living there, and would give reason to exile them at the minimum.

Eh they didn’t take any action against the silver convent so I’m not sure that would count.

But it doesn’t matter. They were neutral. Both groups are part of the Kirin tor. The sunreavers are just suppose to look out for the blood elfs so they aren’t abused by dalaran again. And the silver convent do the same but watch for the horde causing trouble.

[Enrif]

Eh they didn’t take any action against the silver convent so I’m not sure that would count.

Using your diplomatic status in a neutral place to help in a war, is cause for a huge diplomatic fallout. No matter if it directly hurt the others in the neutral place, as it undermined the neutral status of the place.

Or in real world terms, if the german speaking population of Switzerland would have allowed germany to invade into france, during WW1, this would have made the country an ally to germany, instead of a neutral country, which would open the gates of retaliation from france against switzerland, and would of course enrage the french speaking population too.

[Mace]

I agree in general about feeling robbed by blizzard/horde regarding nightborne and night elves. Blizz made most of Legion and one of wow's best zones and city retroactively horde (regardless of the quality of the actual NB allied race), burned the night elf lands, gave them a small village under a tree in DF and are now giving neutral haranir which are night elves 2.0.

I don't understand how the horde hardcores don't understand why this has been problematic and deeply unsatisfactory to the alliance. It is specifically because they have taken stuff from the Alliance pool - and given it to horde, but not only did they do that, it's how they did it, they did not give off equivalent value either.

They took Nightborne over to the horde, but gave Void elves - without a lore, without a zone, without assets
They also took Suramar over to the horde having destroyed Teldrassil and Darnassus - where was the recompense? Amirdrassil eventually came, but it's in a dragon zone and still there is no capital city for the Night elves either?

No alliance player or anyone that gets into Warcraft and reads its lore will fail to notice the high elves and the blood elves emerged on the Alliance first and were as core a part of its identity as humans, if you give that to the horde, where is the compensation?

It's like they filled the alliance with second rate.. why? If you're taking their stuff, you either at least should have of equal or similar value or better remaining on the alliance. Yet the night elves continuously suck, they have no access to the best parts of their lore or civilization assets (the only one in a pristine state being Suramar, the rest in ruins or destroyed). The void elves and high elves are bereft of home too and are treated as after thoughts.

Why do alliance care about Silvermoon or Suramar ? Because they are apart of high elves and night elf lore which were place on the alliance first. if you don't want fan palaver and disgruntlement, and you're giving their really good stuff to he horde then either allow the alliance to partake or have equivalent good or similar - but not sub-par

Elves and forsaken are not core horde, they're secondary races on a faction that should be primarily about orcs and Tauren and troll.. why are they superior to humans, night elves and high/void elves? You shouldn't be doing that with alliance races. You should be showing horde superiority then through races that aren't borrowed from the Alliance and instead of keep swapping alliance races over, give horde great races they can have and be proud off.

I think the only way to balance this robbery is getting a northern kalimdor revamp expansion where they remake the NE zones like midnight's Quelthalas, and give them a proper and amazing capital city, either in healed teldrassil or nordrassil. But then again, even if they are the ones who need it the most, we got a blood elf expansion first, with horde-only zones and full of horde banners everywhere for the alliance players to see.

It's funny, but actually Broken Isles was exactly that. Suramar was Darnassus replacement, Val'Sharah was a combo of Hyjal and Ashenvale - they moved all the wild gods there - Avianna, Malorne, Cenarius, Ursoc etc all moved there. Azsuna was your Darkshore/Desolace replacement, furthermore they had the famous night elf landamrks from the War of the ancients, which were Suramar city, Black Rook Hold with the Ravencrests, the HQ of The Order of Elune (the Cathedral of Eternal night [CoEN, beneath which the famous ToS from Wc3 TFT], they are all there. You had night elven citizens, denizens, city folk, Highborne, normal folk, forest folk, druids, priests, mages, Moonguard, demon hunters, wardens, huntresses - the full ensemble. And it was a full expansion.

It was designed to be the place the night elves would go to because they were going to lose Teldarssil/Darkshore/Ashenvale etc as Horde were going to get Kalimdor and Alliance EK, and they were going to introduce war camps where the people who lost their stuff would be fighting wars to get them back.


So I don't know what hey do now. Amirdrassil is stopping place, a place between for rests for the weary traveller, it is in the dragon isles, but it's not the Night elf new home - unless you consider this acceptable that hte night elf new home is far away from any of hit's ancient holdings, like Suramar, Ashevnale, Hyjal or Zin'Azshari.

So what night elves should have a new home in a half of a zone of the dragon isles, with no capital city, but lose all the zones designed after them from Kalimdor to the Broken Isles?


I'm not kidding myself that horde fans care, Blood elf fans want night elves to have nothing, they hate night elves having anything to do with the spellcasting , civilization side, because they are aware the lore calls it incredible and would suffer only their side to have incredible stuff. Despite being the main night elven race they quite fine with the sub-race having al the assets because it's on the horde, and don't want the blood elf sub-race that is on the alliance to have nay assets at all.

so they will disagree with night elves being in Suramar or void elves in Silvermoon, because you can have nothing that has been taken from the alliance and given to the horde. They happy with Amirdrassil in the middle of nowhere, having nothing desirable or incredible, so they don't feel threatened and don't feel jealous. And they expect us to be okay with this after silly arguments like - "oh but they haven't lived their for 10,000 years" or "oh night elves should have something different, they can't all have fancy cities and all use arcane magic" - nevermind this has been the original lore from the start, never mind blood elves have arcane aptitude because of night elves, nevermind that it's okay for blood elves to have a gorgeous forest like Eversong Forest but not for night elves to have a sophisticated city like Zin'Azsahri or Suramra, because blood elves having one also would make the elves too similar - wtf? They're elves for crying out loud, in Warcraft, elves have magic galore and the night elves established hte first great civilizations and they were so incredible no one has quite been able to match them yet.. this was the lore form day 1, yet the night elf cfans are to accept and want nothing to do with it, because it makes them to similar to blood elves?

So we should have them looking beautiful because blood elves are beautiful and that would make them too similar. They should be skilled with the bow either because blood elves are skilled with the bow, and that would make them too similar, also they should be great at magic, because blood elves are great at magic and that would make them too similar. Effectively they are saying night elves shouldn't be elves but should be feral savage beasts that know only how to live in rural communities only. SO only the druidic portion (they perceive as this even though it isn't) should be what they should have.. the Elune, the stars, the arcane, the Wells, the civilization, none of that should be them

@Alanar, @Tanaria, @Combatbutler @bellular all feel this way and it's ridiculous, though they have a right to it.

Like elves are elves because they are similar, like there already isn't an innate difference in the forests of Kalimdor and hte forests of Quel'thalas in the city of Suramar and Zin'Azsahri and the city of Silvermoon - yes they are similar for being forests and for being cities because it's what elves like, but they are also very different. Night elves are nocturnal based, their cities and forests are alive at night, moonlight and starlight are their thing, the arcane practice is focused on the stars and moon, while for blood elves it's about fire and the sun or frost (*for high elves) , night elves developed demon hunting as well as druidism ,while blood elves are warlocks and botanists - similar but different and sure there is crossover, as in TFT and TBC, blood elves also could start being Demon hunters in addition to warlocks following that night elven class created by Illidan - and why not, Night elven mages can cast fire magic so can blood elven Astromancers use star magic, nothing wrong with the overlap, it's just that in night elf society, star arcane magic, druidism and demon hunting are far bigger than fire magic, botany and warlock magic/operation.


Because they are elves, the main difference is the culture and religion and the day cycle. Night elves have the 10k year history, the war of the ancients, the kaldorei empire, the long vigil, Dire maul and the Shen'dralar, Suramar and the Order of Elune and the Nightborne , Naga and Satyr.. blood elves have the amani trolls, the Alliance, the Eastern Kingdom, the Arathor pact, the Guardian of Tirisfal, hte Sunwell of Quel'thalas, the 1st invasion of the orcs, the scourge devastation - they are separated by physical and cultural differences and histories as they deal with an entirely differ set of people and landmass. And off course there is overlap because they interact and move around and both elves have joined in events that would allow things from the night elf world to interact with the blood elf world and vice versa.. blood elves are in Azshara and Desolace, meanwhile night elves and naga are found in Eastern kingdoms, so far as to joining the Prince of the blood elves with the night elf Illidan and the naga Lady Vashj

there is overlap because they are connected. to expect elves to be some completely different entity is not their original purview, this is why we have different races that serve as completely different entities, if you want savage and totally feral you have Worgen and Trolls - to expect night elves not to be elves because it would make them too similar to blood elves despite being 100% aware of their lore which has those similarities blatantly obvious, s kinda well hypocritical.

i conclude they just don't want it because of faction rivalry, and jealousy.


So to answer your question, what should night elves get now?

Well 1. They need an incredible city, as good as or better than Suramar - night elves are full of grace, and wisdom now to manage their arcane magic and not be slaves to it, they have an additional 10k years knowledge of magic in both nature and the arcane (from the Shen'dralar, Moonguard and Highborne around), nature from the druids and Ancients who remember everything. They can rebuild even better than what they lost - and why not? Restore their civilization show it done right without the greed or lust of power of Azshara, but with a tranquillity and grace that belies their beauty. They don't need a new architectural style, they have fought and saved many a lands, and given their all in defence, won't the deeps give them pearls and jewels and the skill and devotion to Elune and to restoration of their civilization would be strong amongst the priests and Highborne. Meanwhile the druids would make the forest the living paradises we saw in Arden weald and the Emerald dream - so i would expect an exquisite land and city. Forests and homes to stay, not temporary wooden shacks but now taking root to build a civilization and life again. no more vigil, no more legion, sure there are threats, but none that require ALL the night elven peoples to be engaged with. The warriors and fighters will likely always show up, but you'd have civilians now rebuilding.

When this should happen and where? Well certianly a Kalimdor revamp, would be good a new Darnassus built by the Highborne and forest grown by the druids would be incredible. Alternatively they could make the broken isles zones home agian, though I'd prefer a great northern Kalimdor revamp similar to Quel'thalas but for Teldrassil, Darkshore and Ashenvale, with Desolace, Stonetalon and Feralas coming in the first 2-3 patches and for the Nightborne to establish a kindgom in the broken isles But failing a revamp, I woudl rather they share in the broken isles than be homeless or without a capitalinstead.

[Zuben]

Wretched are not withered you don’t turn into one from not feeding your addiction you turn into one from man’s tapping to much. If the blood elfs didn’t want wretched having the high elfs not man’s tapping would be the best way to do it.

They were exiled solely because Lor’thamar “couldn’t lead a nation divided” and the divide was rather to tap the living or not.

Huh. Well, I stand corrected in that regard. Then it really was all about their mana-veganism. How silly.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Using your diplomatic status in a neutral place to help in a war, is cause for a huge diplomatic fallout. No matter if it directly hurt the others in the neutral place, as it undermined the neutral status of the place.

Pretty much ya. Aethas might have actually said something if they were acting against other Kirin tor members instead of turning a blind eye hoping it wouldn’t effect Dalaran.

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Huh. Well, I stand corrected in that regard. Then it really was all about their mana-veganism. How silly.

Honestly I’m not even quite sure why the high elfs cared with the retcon that Fel is its own thing. When Fel was just another more addictive form of arcane not wanting to draw from living things makes sense. But now that there unrelated the whole thing is odd.

Chronicels just mentions Keal got addicted to Fel so Mabye they now knew it was Fel from the jump and that’s why they said no? Who knows.

[Jaggler]

posing a hypothetical isn’t gaslighting, I obviously think your wrong in not trying to hide it.



At the founding, Aethas is repping the Kirin tor not the horde.


Rommath Is even mocking there neutrality prior to the purge


Both groups were part of the Kirin tor and neutral they had leading towards each factions obviously but are suppose to keep to Dal’s neutrality, which they did until mop.

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Eh they didn’t take any action against the silver convent so I’m not sure that would count.

But it doesn’t matter. They were neutral. Both groups are part of the Kirin tor. The sunreavers are just suppose to look out for the blood elfs so they aren’t abused by dalaran again. And the silver convent do the same but watch for the horde causing trouble.

The Silver Covenant was part of the Alliance Vanguard, the coalition of Alliance forces in Northrend. Some members of the Silver Covenant also joining the 7th Legion

[Enrif]

Pretty much ya. Aethas might have actually said something if they were acting against other Kirin tor members instead of turning a blind eye hoping it wouldn’t effect Dalaran.

i just refreshed my knowledge of Aerthas, and he was actually a voice of caution and warned the blood elves of garrosh. If he had not looked the other way during MoP, but actually stopped the horde agents from using the portal, a lot of things could have been averted...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Silver Covenant was part of the Alliance Vanguard, the coalition of Alliance forces in Northrend. Some members of the Silver Covenant also joining the 7th Legion

Ok? Do you like have any lore that actually conflicts what I posted or are we just to ignore the written lore about neutrality because they were a rep bar in wrath?

[Mace]

High elves are there !!

I love how they act the exact way as a WII thalassian elf would act. I love it ! Still not friendly with the Horde as of 2025

Special dialogue for blood elves players :











as Alliance :







Well done Blizzard.

And apparently void elves are permanently settling in windrunner village.

Source : portergauge x

Love it too xxx, showing us how they feel, and for hordes who don't understand why they had to leave, they call them traitors, but it was the blood elves that betryaed the original ideals, especially in the eyes of hte Silver Covenant High elves.

The Silver Covenant and high elf side of things isn't well known to players, so this will help the horde fan boys see it, so when they bring them together they don't think that it's only the blood elves that had to make compromises for this to work.

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It doesn't matter anymore.

The High Elves are setting up at Silverglade Refuge and the Void Elves, in Windrunner Village.

Obviously as the main Thalassian race, Blood Elves will have Silvermoon

The only bad thing is that Silverglade is open to the Horde. I think it should have been totally hostile to the Horde (kill on sight) equivalent to the Horde only part of Silvermoon.
Windrunner Village being open to the Horde is more acceptable because of the Blood Elves' link to Sylvanas - so, I can understand that side...but Silverglade Refuge - that should have been a Horde hostile place.

Not too long ago you didn't want them anywhere near Quel'thalas, glad you're relaxing htis as you see more and more evidence. It won't end at Silverglade refuge though, why should High elves only have one location .. if the Elven tribes are uniting, do you think it is unity to simply hold an abandoned fortress and sections of hte wood?


They'll want more, and they should have more. But the progression will show firstly why they are divided, then show how they come together and why.

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Honestly I’m not even quite sure why the high elfs cared with the retcon that Fel is its own thing. When Fel was just another more addictive form of arcane not wanting to draw from living things makes sense. But now that there unrelated the whole thing is odd.

Chronicels just mentions Keal got addicted to Fel so Mabye they now knew it was Fel from the jump and that’s why they said no? Who knows.

When was fel ever just a more addictive form of arcane? I don't remember them ever been the same, we were just told it was far more addictive than the arcane. The power of chaos and destruction.

[Zuben]

Honestly I’m not even quite sure why the high elfs cared with the retcon that Fel is its own thing. When Fel was just another more addictive form of arcane not wanting to draw from living things makes sense. But now that there unrelated the whole thing is odd.

Chronicels just mentions Keal got addicted to Fel so Mabye they now knew it was Fel from the jump and that’s why they said no? Who knows.

It's been about 15 years since I last read In The Shadow Of The Sun, so I took a moment to glance at it. There's a section, where Renthar Hawkspear says the following: "Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires." No hints of Fel corruption anywhere, just the act of mana tapping itself that they find deplorable. That's how I remember it being with the exiled high elves too.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

When was fel ever just a more addictive form of arcane? I don't remember them ever been the same, we were just told it was far more addictive than the arcane. The power of chaos and destruction.

Wc3-wod, I want to say archimound mentions it in game or Mabye it was in the last guardian novel, I’d have to double check which I can’t do on my phone.

It was chronicels that made them separate otherwise Fel was what happened when you drained arcane magic from living things corrupting it.

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It's been about 15 years since I last read In The Shadow Of The Sun, so I took a moment to glance at it. There's a section, where Renthar Hawkspear says the following: "Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires." No hints of Fel corruption anywhere, just the act of mana tapping itself that they find deplorable. That's how I remember it being with the exiled high elves too.

Mana tapping it self they did as stated in the wow encyclopedia and in cata, it was the living things that would be the hold up which at the time was how Fel was created.

Post chronicels though Fel is its own thing so the line doesn’t really make sense.

[Mace]

Wasn't actually Quel'Lithien wine? Which makes it more of a rare vintage, since, well, production has stopped.




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TBH I think Void Elves and High Elves should reclaim Windrunner Spire and Village, which have been left untouched by the Blood Elven restoration.

A phased Windrunner Spire would make for a pretty great permanent home for High Elves. Wishful thinking more than anything, but the fact the Widnrunner lands are not under direct BE control, and Silverglade being so small, does make me hope they have some alliance designs for this area.

It’s not enough. You will have building while we have a city and en entire zone, and you will be happy about it.

Nah. Silvermoon is their home, Quek’thalas their country. They should have a place there and access to all their property before the war. Those who lived in Silvermoon should be there, those who lived I. Different portions should be able to get their homes back.

The elves should stop fighting and killing themselves because of who their friends are and realise together they are stronger.

Have your friends, but I. quek’thalas, no killing or fighting on behalf of Orc or Human forces. Quel’thalas is a sanctuary zone for elves.

This is how it should be. I would t be happy with just Windrunner spite, on behalf of the high elves and void elves.

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Wc3-wod, I want to say archimound mentions it in game or Mabye it was in the last guardian novel, I’d have to double check which I can’t do on my phone.

It was chronicels that made them separate otherwise Fel was what happened when you drained arcane magic from living things corrupting it.

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Mana tapping it self they did as stated in the wow encyclopedia and in cata, it was the living things that would be the hold up which at the time was how Fel was created.

Post chronicels though Fel is its own thing so the line doesn’t really make sense.

I’d love you to find it. I know back I. Those days the distinctions were blurry nd Born’s really defined. They got more distinctive strands later. But I do remember fel was not arcane more intense long before Chronicles 1 came out. In wow classic it was already distinct, so I think it may have been wc2/ Last Guardian era but changed I. Wc3

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I’d love you to find it. I know back I. Those days the distinctions were blurry nd Born’s really defined. They got more distinctive strands later. But I do remember fel was not arcane more intense long before Chronicles 1 came out. In wow classic it was already distinct, so I think it may have been wc2/ Last Guardian era but changed I. Wc3

In classic they were the same thing, this is from the first warlock trainer quest for example.

As you grow in power, you will be tempted—you must always remember to control yourself. I will not lie—corruption can come to any practitioner of the arcane; especially one who deals with creatures from the Twisting Nether. Be patient, and be prudent... but do not let that repress your ambition.

As you grow more powerful, return to me and I will teach you more about our ways.

And of course Illidans demonic tattoos in the WoTA trilogy from the same time were arcane.

[Cheezits]

One of the devs is currently trying to make Veilwings into a High Elf mount.

https://xcancel.com/Boogily_Woogily/...643331895647#m