Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ithekro]

what else they show different? he pretty much covered everything in the Q&A, the only difference is a bit in the backstory, and eye color who is not a thing anymore

the problem is people project their own headcanon to the game, and think they are different, when in truth they are not that much different.



thats just naive to say

they would take a lot of things and would dismiss the elf fantasie,a lot of topics explain those things

but people are just "nuh hun, they would not, let me have things i want"


until the "right and pure elves" stat opening topics to quel'thalas and silvermoon go back to the alliance, the place where they rightful belong, cause they are alliance int he second war and blablabla. their manifest and battle cry is "legacy of quel'thalas" when this legacy already live own trough the blood elves

they are even suggestion a quel'thalas warfront, to high elves be the major force, this is just sick

What it takes away is their uniqueness as a choice.

A major part of the appeal of fantasy games like this is that you can create models to illustrate the differences between different cultural and political groups visually. An orc can embody ferocity and honor with features like broad shoulders and tusks, and corruption through a skin tone. A Pandaren can demonstrate an appreciation for food and good company with a big round belly and a smile. Drawing hairline distinctions between political factions of the same race has never been the strength of this kind of game.

The fantasy of a Blood Elf is that it is a High Elf with green eyes. That is by definition. If you change the basic point of reference in that fantasy, you are quite literally rehashing content that already exists in another form. That blurs the lines between factions, but also blurs the identity of a race that is already playable.

Playable races are inviolable, and the faction wall remains important. What you are left with is a Catch 22; High Elves being playable on the Alliance inevitably violates a core part of the game's design.

Maybe I am too much of a historian to see your points of view. I see this as a perfect kind of faction rivalry. One that is very real and honest to how things really are in the world. A reflection of humanity in the form of elves. Much more so than the Humans of this game. Two peoples that are the same with different ideologies fighting. That's very real.

The war progression in the Eastern Kingdoms also makes sense given the seeming total lose of Undercity (is it a crater now, or just a blighted mess that could be cleaned up some day? Depends on what Sylvanas blew it up with.) Will the Alliance make for Silvermoon? Of course they will. Its the main Horde city left on the continent. Will they get there and take it? No. Absolutely not. Their is no way the Alliance can take Silvermoon. The Alliance doesn't have unending numbers like the Scourge, and the Blood Elves are probably very well aware that they need to change the spells on their defensive runes to prevent sabotage from the High Elves and Void Elves. Plus the Nightbourn can probably help prevent the Void Elves, Mages, and Lightforged from just teleporting in. Silvermoon will stand. But the war heading that way makes complete sense.

[Deleted]

Indeed, indeed.

Not that the anti-helf are better sometimes tbh.

[Big Mama]

we can say the HE number is low almost extinct, because is what is stated in lore

the lead game dev said there are not tons of then.

Silver covenant was always a small squad of elves with veressa, they barely have a place or race fantasie as their own

we can stretch a bit here, if they say numbers matter, and HE are not enough to be playable, and VE are playable, we can assume by logic, the VE numbers are just enough to be playable, more than the silver covenant ones

Void elves came from blood elves, the bulky of the high elf civilization, they are called an elite squad and have their own fantasie, even now more HE goes to the rift learn the void, so yes, the VE can have more numbers than the silver covenant elves specifically



she eat a dark na'aru and can transform into the shadowform like the void elves, she is a void elf but like other leaders "special" cause she undergo trough a different way to get the power.

there are more notable h because the VE are new, and with time they lore will get development, so they will have their important characters.




the difference is other races can replenish their numbers, HE don't, every time they appear they show less and less elves



its a matter of say, all the hunters there are under order of the champion and the class order by default, the rest is gameplay

also, they are not even important to be followers or have any meaning lore there, again, the token appearence.



not rly, they are the alliance forces, night elves antagonize the blood elves, and the high elves are just there as token

they did nothing

their presence is overshadowed by the night elves, i can't even remember if veressa gave you a world quest, maybe 2, like i said, they there and not there, make no difference to the story

- - - Updated - - -



the excuses work pretty fine, you just don't like or accept then, cause reasons

This void elf shit is an utter nonsense. They look quite good, but:

- there is zero reason for them to be the members of the Alliance
- there is no way their numbers are "endless" all of a sudden
- they don't even have a 'voidform' like Alleria has, which would give them at least a bit more depth and make them unique (I mean is it that hard to implement a void/dark/whatever form for cosmetic/slight buff purposes?)
- they were never ever before seen or mentioned at all before
- they were probably pitched like 3 seconds before they were announced
- there is no real reason why would their own people just abandoned them, just a very sloppy, very quick and very cheap writing
- they are NOT the high elves (the high elves that people have always wanted) and if they were intented to be a substitute to them, it's a very poor one

Honestly I think they will be the downfall of WoW. People are getting mad about the idea of Vulperas becoming playable, but honestly? There are at least some tidbits of their culture, style and architecture. If they will become playable, you'll at least have a chance to get to know them a bit before that actually happens. The void elves literally came from nowhere.

Apologies to void elf players. Enjoy your characters. I just wish Blizz did a better job.

[Byleth]

Speaking of lore, High and Blood elves are NOT the same. One fraction elected to steal magic and use fel in a quest for power, the other fraction didnt. And Void Elves are NOT High Elves. They were Blood Elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for studying the void.

Totally, absolutely wrong.

Blood Elves are High Elves. Their physiology is identical. Only their politics diverged.

Void Elves also have High Elves among their ranks, not just renegade Blood Elves. Google it, or better yet roll a Velf and run around their start area for proof.

[protip]

Maybe I am too much of a historian to see your points of view. I see this as a perfect kind of faction rivalry. One that is very real and honest to how things really are in the world. A reflection of humanity in the form of elves. Much more so than the Humans of this game. Two peoples that are the same with different ideologies fighting. That's very real.

The war progression in the Eastern Kingdoms also makes sense given the seeming total lose of Undercity (is it a crater now, or just a blighted mess that could be cleaned up some day? Depends on what Sylvanas blew it up with.) Will the Alliance make for Silvermoon? Of course they will. Its the main Horde city left on the continent. Will they get there and take it? No. Absolutely not. Their is no way the Alliance can take Silvermoon. The Alliance doesn't have unending numbers like the Scourge, and the Blood Elves are probably very well aware that they need to change the spells on their defensive runes to prevent sabotage from the High Elves and Void Elves. Plus the Nightbourn can probably help prevent the Void Elves, Mages, and Lightforged from just teleporting in. Silvermoon will stand. But the war heading that way makes complete sense.

I agree with all of your points here. I just don't think that kind of storytelling translates very well into an MMO. Warcraft has been designed so that you can tell those faction rivalry stories by illustrating the different points of view visually, in the form of different races. For me, that's an important part of what makes WoW what it is. It's definitely an oversimplification, in the strictest sense, but I think it suits this kind of game as a medium.

[Andromedes]

Totally, absolutely wrong.

Blood Elves are High Elves. Their physiology is identical. Only their politics diverged.

Void Elves also have High Elves among their ranks, not just renegade Blood Elves. Google it, or better yet roll a Velf and run around their start area for proof.

Kul tiran humans are Stormwind humans. Their physiology is identical. Only their politics diverged.. Oh wait, they arent identical, because ''something, harsh environment, something''

[Wildspirit]

come on guys, it's over, no more high elves theories and debate. This clarification was coming and most of High elves defenders should have seen this and prepare.

Sorry bro's, Blood elves are the new High elves =D

(I don't play BE, just sayin')

[Rend Blackhand]

We need a story quest chain in BFA where the Horde beats the shit out of the Solver Covenant and kills Vereesa and the other minor high elf warrior guy who’s name I can’t remember.

Show in game that the Alliance High Elves are finished.

[Byleth]

Kul tiran humans are Stormwind humans. Their physiology is identical. Only their politics diverged.. Oh wait, they arent identical, because ''something, harsh environment, something''

Your point makes perfect sense, heck, I agree with it.

Doesn't change the fact that the poster I quoted was absolutely, totally wrong.

[czarek]

BE = HE, last night QnA solve it. Peace.

[Ithekro]

I agree with all of your points here. I just don't think that kind of storytelling translates very well into an MMO. Warcraft has been designed so that you can tell those faction rivalry stories by illustrating the different points of view visually, in the form of different races. For me, that's an important part of what makes WoW what it is. It's definitely an oversimplification, in the strictest sense, but I think it suits this kind of game as a medium.

The basic problem there is entirely Blizzard's fault. They have made it so the Elf story is viable for both factions. It doesn't directly suit either the Alliance nor the Horde. It is the Elf story, and it is its own things that crosses the boundary of both factions easily, because that's how they wrote them, and how they keep writing them.

After 14 years and many in game improvements, You would think that having one race that has two factions would be a viable thing in and of its realism factor. Especially since they've been writing the elves that way since TBC. If they had picked one side and left it alone, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. But they didn't go that route. They made both factions have these elves and use them in their storytelling. The only difference is that they made the race playable by only one of the factions, while stinging along the other faction with elves still in their faction and representing them repeatedly in content. Again, Blizzard's fault for doing that. That sort of writing makes the two factions, one race at war with itself is very interesting, real, and tempting for any player to want to be a part of (because we are human, and we see it all the time in our history). Now they've made it three factions, one race, with two sides in the war, and made the war actively hot. That just makes people want to play it more for the conflict that basically writes itself.

[Jeldoba]

[QUOTE=lightspark;49285526]Well, people who ignore the lore or bend it for the sake of their own argument do. Obv It's not the case lorewise, otherwise we'd call all elves night elves.

I mean, technically, we have 4 flavours of night elves as playable races in the game:

- Night elves;
- Highborne night elves who mutated under the influence of the Sunwell over the period of ~7k years and later got slightly tainted by the Fel a.k.a. Blood elves;
- Highborne night elves who mutated under the influence of the Sunwell over the period of ~7k years and later got slightly tainted by the Fel, but later underwent incomplete transformation by the Void, a.k.a. Void elves;
- Highborne night elves who mutated under the influence of the Nightwell over the period of ~10k years, a.k.a. Nightborne.

And to take it even further.... their all trolls. so ha!

[Syegfryed]

This void elf shit is an utter nonsense. They look quite good, but:

- there is zero reason for them to be the members of the Alliance

-exiled by the blood elves, thus exiled by the horde in their view
-saved by alleria
-sworn follow alleria, their old hero and savior
-alleria happened to be alliance
-they obviously would follow her

so yes there are reasons

- there is no way their numbers are "endless" all of a sudden

they numbers can be more than the elves from the silver covenant easily

- they don't even have a 'voidform' like Alleria has, which would give them at least a bit more depth and make them unique (I mean is it that hard to implement a void/dark/whatever form for cosmetic/slight buff purposes?)

is the exact same form, its jus poop ups random,and alleria have full control

- they were never ever before seen or mentioned at all before

thats actually a no issue

- they were probably pitched like 3 seconds before they were announced

vid elf are being in the game since before argus, people opened a lot for topics claiming that "HE confirmed" they think about that prob when they are building alleria and Argus campaign.

- there is no real reason why would their own people just abandoned them, just a very sloppy, very quick and very cheap writing

there is no reason to HE not join their BE kin too tough.

and the blood elves didn't abandon then, they exiled then because they were threatening with dark powers, experiments with the void, who would danger the sunwell

- they are NOT the high elves (the high elves that people have always wanted) and if they were intented to be a substitute to them, it's a very poor one

they are high elves still, just not the specific group they want, in the specific way they desire, that is petty, just get over it. its not the end of the world, cause you can say your VE belong to those HE

Honestly I think they will be the downfall of WoW.

that just being over melodramatic.

[ArchbishopBenedictus]

oh no, this video full of headcanon and bias, can we just stop bringing this up, i cringe every-time

Could you please elaborate on its bias? it seemed pretty logical and fair to me.

[Syegfryed]

Maybe I am too much of a historian to see your points of view. I see this as a perfect kind of faction rivalry. One that is very real and honest to how things really are in the world. A reflection of humanity in the form of elves. Much more so than the Humans of this game. Two peoples that are the same with different ideologies fighting. That's very real.

the game is based of race and faction rivalry, not "same races rivals by politics manners"

they said faction matter, add high elves would make a horde race neutral like pandarens, and this is just bullshit, people would demand compensation, would demand same treatment to other races, and if they are doing this shit would be better end the factions

- - - Updated - - -

Kul tiran humans are Stormwind humans. Their physiology is identical. Only their politics diverged.. Oh wait, they arent identical, because ''something, harsh environment, something''

again and again with the false equivalence

- - - Updated - - -

Could you please elaborate on its bias? it seemed pretty logical and fair to me.

the video was made based on the "he manifesto" full of bias from the people on the oficial forum, i already read that shit, lot of headcanon, and things changed to adapt in their own point

HE=BE, this the logical and canon thing

[Andromedes]

again and again with the false equivalence

Compelling argument we have here.. Just like Ion has compelling arguments that were debunked by very existence of void elves.

[Syegfryed]

Compelling argument we have here.. Just like Ion has compelling arguments that were debunked by very existence of void elves.

except the kul'tirans who will be playable are not normal humans,cause they have something to do with the drust, who could be magic affected people or hybrids

but yeah keep going on with the fase equivalences sure is a lot of fun

[Ithekro]

the game is based of race and faction rivalry, not "same races rivals by politics manners"

they said faction matter, add high elves would make a horde race neutral like pandarens, and this is just bullshit, people would demand compensation, would demand same treatment to other races, and if they are doing this shit would be better end the factions


HE=BE, this the logical and canon thing

Except they've written that to not be true. They keep saying it is, but its not. The High Elves and Void Elves are the same species as the Blood Elves (that is true) and they are fighting each other just like humans fight each other in the real world. That is how Blizzard wrote it. Therefore this is a faction/political thing only they have written themselves into the corner with and refuse to acknowledge they did it.

As for the other races demanding compensation and the same treatment for other races, they can try, but they don't have nearly as much lore or story backing as the Elf issue. As far as I know, there is no other race in game that is on both factions where one side has them playable and the other does not, but they are prominent in lore and stories for both sides. That's the elves. Because Blizzard wrote them that way.

Because for whatever reason they couldn't let the High Elves go away. They kept them around even after introducing the Blood Elves. If they had, this wouldn't be so much of an issue, because Blizzard's points about lore, populations, and factions would actually make sense. But they didn't and used the High Elves in the Alliance for over a decade, so we have this. Three factions of Elves. Two allied with each other on the Alliance, both with tiny populations relative to the third group of elves, which is on the Horde. And they are fighting each other. Just like humans do.

That the game was designed for race/faction rivalry is fine, but it doesn't reflect what they did to the Elves. Not at all. What they did was make the elves very human and fight over ideology and possibly faction pride, or just personal pride for some elves,....just like humans do.

[Andromedes]

except the kul'tirans who will be playable are not normal humans,cause they have something to do with the drust, who could be magic affected people or hybrids

but yeah keep going on with the fase equivalences sure is a lot of fun

No, i played warcraft 3 and wow and i know how kul tirans look. They certainly do not look like half giants.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

People got Void Elves but are still complaining? I support Ion! If you want High Elves play Horde. Period.