1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    The Silver Covenant is not a neutral faction. You can cut that BS.
    and how "big" this "faction"? especialy after dalaran turning neutral again? where are them? i only saw veressa on vindicar telling alleria "sylvanas bad, she with hordies", and before that on nightfallen rebelion. And this not exclude that if we see "high elves" playable we will see them as customisation option for BE too. And with golden eyes too.

    you know what will happen then? "HORDE BIAS! WHY THEM GETTING BLUE EYES TOO! HIGH ELVES ONLY SERVE ALIANCE! AND GOLDEN EYES! ALIANCE WERE PALADINS ON THE FIRST PLACE! *roar*"

    edit: you know. i now even want them to add HE for both horde and aliance. so i will see more aliance crybabies tears. And how lore will be twisted with explanation why part of High elves killing other High elves.
    Last edited by Zorish; 2018-03-12 at 02:40 PM.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I am aware of that interview.

    Where does what she say contradict the idea that Void Elves are a compromise?

    I believe Void Elves are a compromise between the desire of some Alliance players to use a thalassian model without getting High Elves which are playable as Horde.
    The entire point of me quoting that is to show you and the others here that this whole idea of, "Void Elves are the compromise for High Elves" is entirely player-made up.

    And how does it not contradict your "compromise" stance? Let me ask you this then, why did she have to differentiate between the races that were based on player feedback vs the void elves being something new and cool and they wanted to do?

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    you know what will happen then? "HORDE BIAS! WHY THEM GETTING BLUE EYES TOO! HIGH ELVES ONLY SERVE ALIANCE! AND GOLDEN EYES! ALIANCE WERE PALADINS ON THE FIRST PLACE! *roar*"
    True dat. As a compromise, Horde should have some of their classes and customization options for Blood Elves removed. Those who lose their class would be race changed to Trolls. Elves were originally trolls anyway, so same difference. /sarcasim

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    and how "big" this "faction"? especialy after dalaran turning neutral again? where are them? i only saw veressa on vindicar telling alleria "sylvanas bad, she with hordies". And this not exclude that if we see "high elves" playable we will see them as customisation option for BE too. And with golden eyes too.
    Bigger than an "elite crack squad" of Void Elves that's for sure. You know what a squad is right? It's the smallest military unit available, something like 12 person group.

    Dalaran being neutral has nothing to do with the Silver Covenant themselves. They've always been and continue to be on the side of the Alliance. You're equating Silver Covenant = Dalaran for some reason yet many times the Silver Covenant has aided the Alliance on occasions where Dalaran itself wasn't involved.

    You will never see Blue eyes for Blood Elves, why? Because it is their green eyes that define them. You guys even quoted the CDev interview where it says it will take a long time. Do you know that it's only been about 5 years since BC? Blood Elves are having children that come out with Green eyes, elves in general age/change at a much slower pace than humans unless something drastic happens, so I doubt we will ever see "Blue eye Blood Elves" for the entirety of WoW's lifetime.

  5. #265
    Horde: Blood Elves, Nightborne Elves
    Alliance: Night Elves, Void Elves


    Do we really need another Elven race?

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    The entire point of me quoting that is to show you and the others here that this whole idea of, "Void Elves are the compromise for High Elves" is entirely player-made up.

    And how does it not contradict your "compromise" stance? Let me ask you this then, why did she have to differentiate between the races that were based on player feedback vs the void elves being something new and cool and they wanted to do?
    Because they were the ones the players hadn't met before? She was talking about the origins of the allied races, and Void Elves are different.

    As for idea of the compromise being player initiated, you're right, I can't prove it.

    I only have a set of facts which, when combined with the circumstances, produces a theory that adequately explains what they were thinking behind the scenes.

    After all, if 'new and cool' was their sole consideration, why a High Elf model?

    Why not Humans who got mixed up with some crazy rituals?

    Why not Dwarves who delved too deeply and got too close to some old god artifacts?

    Why not Gnomish inventors who rip portals into the void with their crazy tech and get zapped?

    All of those could be considered 'new and cool' after all right? If that was all they wanted to accomplish, bring in a race with the Void theme even if nobody had ever seen it before, why not an existing alliance race?

    But no, they went with a Blood Elf base. A thalassian elf model to a faction which has had multiple posters over multiple years ask and ask and ask for playable thalassian elves.

    And we know they considered High Elves, as Ion in 2014 flat out said High Elves offhand when asked about a sub-race system.

    As I said, I cannot prove this.

    But I find the way the facts we do know fit together so well to be very telling. Either they wanted to add a void themed race and settled on high elves to provide a measure of distance and difference to the Blood Elves, or they wanted to add High Elves and added the void theme to provide a measure of distance and difference to the Blood Elves. Arguing apples and oranges really but they end up with the Alliance getting a long asked for thalassian elf model with a twist.

    Unless you've a better theory than that? I have to advise though, suggesting that they 'wanted a void themed race and thalassian elves were chosen completely at random with no thought given to High Elves for the Alliance' will strain credibility.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Bigger than an "elite crack squad" of Void Elves that's for sure. You know what a squad is right? It's the smallest military unit available, something like 12 person group.
    all i see in them is fanatics who trying to reject their own people for whatever reason.

    and more

    As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race.[12] Though without any official leader, Vereesa Windrunner (the younger sister of both Sylvanas and Alleria) leads one of the few organized high elf collaborations, the Silver Covenant, as its self-styled Ranger General. Auric Sunchaser, a captain of the remnants of Alleria's ranger cadre found in Terokkar Forest, serves as the high elven representative at the restored Sunwell in modern Quel'Thalas.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf
    Even if LTT accused Auric, this NOT mean that he accused all HE who wished to return to Silvermoon after such events.

    plus 6 years from WC3 till BC. 6-7 years from BC till Bfa. Long enough i would say especialy after cleansing of sunwell (wich can help in "restoring" their eyes color, or even changing it for paladins and priests)
    Last edited by Zorish; 2018-03-12 at 02:56 PM.

  8. #268
    As a reminder, if other people have ideas, please feel free to contribute. You don't have to make artwork either, as even suggestions are great, and I've compiled some of them so far at the bottom of the OP.

    MECHANICS: What are some racial abilities? What would you like to see?

    ART Brainstorming:
    Different Warpaint
    Hairstyles
    Design a new tabard
    Other possible armor designs

    And the big question: Should Quel'Dorei use the pale blue hypogryphs, or should they use dragonhawks like those they raise at Quel'danil Lodge? Or something entirely different?

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Because they were the ones the players hadn't met before? She was talking about the origins of the allied races, and Void Elves are different.
    Why are you twisting their words/interpreting them as you see fit? Literally they were ASKED, "What led to those 6 in particular as a choice" It's not about "origins" at all. The question is basically asking, "why did you pick these 6 to go with?"

    I don't know how much more crystal clear they need to be, if at this point you're not understanding what they're saying then either you're starting to blatantly ignore what they're saying, or being intentionally obtuse about the question and answer provided.

    As for why they went specifically with Elves? Well it's obvious Nightborne were going to go Horde so they seemed to want an Elf counter point. These first 4 Allied Races are also referred to as the "Legion Allied Races" therefore having to specifically be about Legion expansion. Who is their leader? Alleria, an elf. So it makes sense to include more Elves for her to lead.

    High Elves on the other hand can be added at any point because they're not specific to 1 expansion, they've been present in multiple. There is no rush to get them in.

    You have a Blizzard producer, sitting with Alex THE story guy, explaining the inclusion of Void Elves as something new and are still trying to say it's due to High Elf feedback when they specifically pointed out which races were based on player feedback. You're honestly really reaching so much to somehow think High Elves can't be playable later.

    Also another thing you can look at, of the first 6 announced races, both Dark Iron Dwarves and Zandalari are long time requested races. The rest are relatively new. If High Elves were given at this specific moment it would've imbalanced the request between Alliance/Horde by having Alliance have 2 majorly requested races released vs Horde's 1.

    High Elves are so popular that they are a very safe bet to be added to Alliance at any point. Blizzard isn't blowing their whole load on the more iconic Allied Races, they are as expected of any business in regards to player retention, drawing out the more popular choices for later.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    all i see in them is fanatics who trying to reject their own people for whatever reason.

    and more

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf
    Even if LTT accused Auric, this NOT mean that he accused all HE who wished to return to Silvermoon after such events.

    plus 6 years from WC3 till BC. 6-7 years from BC till Bfa. Long enough i would say especialy after cleansing of sunwell (wich can help in "restoring" their eyes color, or even changing it for paladins and priests)
    I'm not even sure what you're exactly trying to say in this post. Other than I let you know that an "elite crack squad" is definitely much smaller than the amount of High Elves in the Silver Covenant. Who are you referring to when you say "all I see in them"?

    Also if you think it's been long enough then I guess Blood Elves will get their blue eyes in BfA right? You seem to speak with as much authority to know when they should and shouldn't get their blue eyes back (even though their green eyes are their defining feature Blizzard implemented themselves).

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'm not even sure what you're exactly trying to say in this post. Other than I let you know that an "elite crack squad" is definitely much smaller than the amount of High Elves in the Silver Covenant. Who are you referring to when you say "all I see in them"?

    Also if you think it's been long enough then I guess Blood Elves will get their blue eyes in BfA right? You seem to speak with as much authority to know when they should and shouldn't get their blue eyes back (even though their green eyes are their defining feature Blizzard implemented themselves).
    i am speaking that the moment you add "High Elf" for aliance, you must (almost) add them (as customisation to BE, or allied race) to the horde. Because there is no statement that every "high elf" serve Aliance. ("" for "High elf" mean that i don't see them different race from Blood elves)

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    i am speaking that the moment you add "High Elf" for aliance, you must (almost) add them (as customisation to BE, or allied race) to the horde. Because there is no statement that every "high elf" serve Aliance. ("" for "High elf" mean that i don't see them different race from Blood elves)
    Here is where you're wrong. Not every Dark Iron Dwarf serves the Alliance, in the starting areas for Dwarves you're even having to quell the fighting between Dark Irons that didn't follow Moira.

    So while not every "high elf" serves Alliance, there are a specific group(s) of them that have and still do serve on their side. These are the specific set of High Elves that Alliance are asking for, the ones that have been loyal to the Alliance since WoW began and have already worked alongside them, just are not playable. The same as DI Dwarves that sided with Moira but weren't playable until soon in BfA.

    A playable race doesn't need to have all its species be available for play, that's just silly thinking. If it were we wouldn't be having moments where Goblins are being killed by both Alliance/Horde, Dark Iron being killed by both etc etc.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by wysimdnwyg View Post
    Horde: Blood Elves, Nightborne Elves
    Alliance: Night Elves, Void Elves


    Do we really need another Elven race?
    No, we dont, that is why i dont understand creation of void elves, when it should be high elves all along

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Here is where you're wrong. Not every Dark Iron Dwarf serves the Alliance, in the starting areas for Dwarves you're even having to quell the fighting between Dark Irons that didn't follow Moira.
    note to you my dear - didn't you think that this is WHY Dark Iron are Aliend race? Didn't you think that Moira will go and unite this "fighting" parties under Aliance banner?

    So while not every "high elf" serves Alliance, there are a specific group(s) of them that have and still do serve on their side. These are the specific set of High Elves that Alliance are asking for, the ones that have been loyal to the Alliance since WoW began and have already worked alongside them, just are not playable. The same as DI Dwarves that sided with Moira but weren't playable until soon in BfA.
    and this still not prevent "High Elves" being same part of the Horde as part of the Aliance (maybe aliance have some fanatical group, because Veresa for some unknown reason opposed Silvermoon AFTER restore of Sunwell). Even that LTT showed some arrogance during Quel'Delar quest, this still not severe "High elves" from Horde, cause they are still the same race, have families, friends and others and can freely move to Silvermoon since there is now not much Fel energy to corrupt their eye color.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    note to you my dear - didn't you think that this is WHY Dark Iron are Aliend race? Didn't you think that Moira will go and unite this "fighting" parties under Aliance banner?
    No you're still not understanding it. There's going to be a specific group of Dark Irons that we recruit into the Alliance. The ones that didn't follow Moira are still going to hate her and hate the Alliance and keep fighting them. You know that when Moira came back into the council of 3, that there were already Dark Irons that followed and became part of the Alliance? This is the reasoning for why Dwarves could then be mages and why in-game right now you can create a dark Iron looking dwarf in the Dwarf character creation (ashy dark skin, red eyes). This did not stop Blizzard from making them into an Allied Race proper and giving them their own race slot and customization options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    and this still not prevent "High Elves" being same part of the Horde as part of the Aliance (maybe aliance have some fanatical group, because Veresa for some unknown reason opposed Silvermoon AFTER restore of Sunwell). Even that LTT showed some arrogance during Quel'Delar quest, this still not severe "High elves" from Horde, cause they are still the same race, have families, friends and others and can freely move to Silvermoon since there is now not much Fel energy to corrupt their eye color.
    You seem to be confusing the biological race, "high elf", with the specific set of elves that call themselves "High Elves". Yes there are citizen high elfs out and about, but these are not the ones Alliance are asking for, they are asking for the specific set of elves that took back the name "High Elf" after Blood Elves decided they didn't want to be named that so.

    Blood Elves don't call themselves High Elves.
    Void Elves don't call themselves High Elves.

    The specific group of elves that have fought alongside Alliance since Vanilla and have been requested over years is the group that calls themselves, "High Elves". The ones that Elisande herself refers to during Nighthold. These are the elves that Alliance is asking for, not all high elfs known to man. Just the ones that have already been fighting alongside the Alliance.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Greathoudini View Post
    Good god no more elves please.
    If we didn't have many races to pick from, I could totally understand this viewpoint. However, as it is, we can choose to play:

    Orcs
    Humans
    Undead
    Iron Dwarfs
    Jungle Trolls
    Darkiron Dwarfs
    Tauren
    Draenei
    Goblins
    Gnomes
    Zandalari Trolls
    Lightforged Draenei
    Outland Orcs
    Worgen
    Pandaren

    That's a lot of races to pick from. Even if they added 20 new elf races, it wouldn't change that.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    No you're still not understanding it. There's going to be a specific group of Dark Irons that we recruit into the Alliance. The ones...
    oh reeeeally. so Words from Moira in your own Embassy
    Moira Thaurissan
    The Alliance needs strength. Unity. The king's plan to bring in fresh blood is a good one.
    But I can't help thinking of my own Dark Iron clan. Of the fractures that divide us.

    didn't ring any bells? or maybe description https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dark_Iron_dwarf_(playable) ? UNITED! UNITED CLAN! NOT SPECIFIC PART OF IT!

    Calling your race "Blood Elf" don't change your actual "race". You are still part of that race. And as i said. You can be "high elf" appearance and have your eyes blue. BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME BEFORE GREEN EYES! They changed their name to honor the fallen and new course for them. So you STILL can be "High elf" physicaly and "Blood elf" by faction. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! Surprise eh?

  17. #277
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Why are you twisting their words/interpreting them as you see fit? Literally they were ASKED, "What led to those 6 in particular as a choice" It's not about "origins" at all. The question is basically asking, "why did you pick these 6 to go with?"
    Firstly because I am curious to see what the experience is like on the other side of being accused of twisting a dev's words. I mean Ion came out and said High Elves were already playable when asked about playable High Elves and pro High Elfers have been falling over themselves to twist HIS words to mean High Elves still might happen. I suspect you'll do much the same thing in response or ignore this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I don't know how much more crystal clear they need to be, if at this point you're not understanding what they're saying then either you're starting to blatantly ignore what they're saying, or being intentionally obtuse about the question and answer provided.
    Actually I think you'll find you are the one being intentionally obtuse. After all, I am not saying that they were lying or that they were wrong. Merely that what they said does nothing to contradict my supposition Void Elves are a compromise to give the Alliance a High Elf model without giving them High Elves. I'd only be obtuse if I was saying that what the devs were saying is flat out wrong and they don't really mean that, which I am not.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    As for why they went specifically with Elves? Well it's obvious Nightborne were going to go Horde so they seemed to want an Elf counter point. These first 4 Allied Races are also referred to as the "Legion Allied Races" therefore having to specifically be about Legion expansion. Who is their leader? Alleria, an elf. So it makes sense to include more Elves for her to lead.
    You should talk to Northem. He was predicting Alleria's return for years. As the racial leader of Alliance High Elves. You are right that an elf counterpart was needed to Nightborne;but you still seem desperate to avoid the logical conclusion as to why Void Elves were created as that counterpoint, rather than High Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    High Elves on the other hand can be added at any point because they're not specific to 1 expansion, they've been present in multiple. There is no rush to get them in.
    So why not now? The storyline could easily have been written to have Alleria come back and lead the Alliance High Elves. Why create Void Elves from almost nothing instead? If they hadn't added either you could argue High Elves were being held in reserve. It seems to be they almost bent over backwards NOT to add them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    You have a Blizzard producer, sitting with Alex THE story guy, explaining the inclusion of Void Elves as something new and are still trying to say it's due to High Elf feedback when they specifically pointed out which races were based on player feedback. You're honestly really reaching so much to somehow think High Elves can't be playable later.
    Well they are playable now. Ask Ion. You are of course in favour of listening to what the devs say right? I mean Ion was even flat out asked and he sniggered.
    As for the interview you quote, again, where do I say that what they are saying is wrong? Nothing they say contradicts what I have said elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    High Elves are so popular that they are a very safe bet to be added to Alliance at any point. Blizzard isn't blowing their whole load on the more iconic Allied Races, they are as expected of any business in regards to player retention, drawing out the more popular choices for later.
    High Elves are incredibly unlikely to be added to the Alliance. You have made a big show of taking the developers at face value whilst pushing your point. It is hypocrisy to discount the most senior developer ruling out Alliance High Elves on the grounds that they are already playable.

    As for you trying to predict what Allied races are coming next based on a sixth sense of Blizzard's business model...now that IS reaching.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So why not now?
    You're right, add them now. Right. Now.

  19. #279
    Really incredible. Very interesting ideas. Blizz should have done this instead of the void elves. I think they messed up teribly with those. They are interesting visually but it is so clear they were made up in like 5 minutes...

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    You're right, add them now. Right. Now.
    It was a rhetorical question, because nobody wants to give the real answer to the question.

    The answer is because they obviously don't want to.

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