Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The thing that I feel was legitimately disrespectful about Ion's answer was basically the same he gave 7 months ago, so he's basically saying that in 7 months no one raised one single point worth addressing in the Q&A about High Elves.

That's just not caring about the community feedback, regardless if you agree with it. But the lack of acknowledgement of it all, of all the ideas people came up with, of all the points raised, is what feels very discouraging as a community, regardless of the answer. (Which really, doesn't surprise me because the faction identity thing alone was reasoning enough from a gameplay perspective)

[Sigxy]

Having watched quite a few tutorial videos of that 'format' on youtube, this was glorious. Thanks for sharing!

[corebit]

Blizzard is saying X, Y and Z but then allows other races to break those reasons. That by definition makes their reasoning weak. I accept their reasons, but doesn't make it less bullshit. It's not my opinion it's a weak explanation it's factual ... you are confusing acceptance of a reason with strength of the reason.

Trying out a neutral race because they have never done it before, and then not liking how it turned out is not "allowing other races to break those reasons." You're trying to use the Pandaren experiment as somehow proof that "anything goes" or "Pandora's box is opened," as if Blizzard is suddenly off limits to take a step back and realize that strong faction identity needs to be a thing again.

[Darththeo]

Trying out a neutral race because they have never done it before, and then not liking how it turned out is not "allowing other races to break those reasons." You're trying to use the Pandaren experiment as somehow proof that "anything goes" or "Pandora's box is opened," as if Blizzard is suddenly off limits to take a step back and realize that strong faction identity needs to be a thing again.

Pandaren was the start. They then gave the elves skeletons and looks to opposing factions. And now they go "Faction Identity is important" ... if you can't see how that doesn't follow you don't understand anything.

Also, Blizzard has not stated Neutral Races are not happening again either. You can't focus on half my argument to disprove it all.

[Deleted]

Trying out a neutral race because they have never done it before, and then not liking how it turned out is not "allowing other races to break those reasons." You're trying to use the Pandaren experiment as somehow proof that "anything goes" or "Pandora's box is opened," as if Blizzard is suddenly off limits to take a step back and realize that strong faction identity needs to be a thing again.

Actually I think they're referring to Nightborne, Blizzard straight up just gave Night Elves to the horde. Unlike Blood Elves and Void Elves (whose ears stick through plate helms and you can actually see skin tone) there isn't much of a way to tell a Nightborne from a Night Elf in full plate with an enclosed helm since they share a few skin tones.

So yeah, his 'faction identity' thing doesn't make a lot of sense with the whole "They're just Blood Elves with a different eye colour and a different Culture"...he literally just described the Nightborne difference to the Night Elves...and yet the Horde got them just fine...

[Rhlor]

Time travel, random light forging, chiropractors, and contact lenses. Really, really stupid excuses used to give Horde players lots of extra options for their characters, but they cant let Alliance have more options because that would "break the lore."

Speaking of lore, High and Blood elves are NOT the same. One fraction elected to steal magic and use fel in a quest for power, the other fraction didnt. And Void Elves are NOT High Elves. They were Blood Elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for studying the void.

the blood elves did not use fel, only the magisters to rebuild silvermoon

[protip]

Pandaren was the start. They then gave the elves skeletons and looks to opposing factions. And now they go "Faction Identity is important" ... if you can't see how that doesn't follow you don't understand anything.

Pandaren was a foot in the water, Void Elves and Nightborne were as far as they were willing to go to appease High Elf fans at the time.

And so, the Void Elf angle, as tied into the story of Argus, and the powers that Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf, but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

This quote plainly explains what they were trying to do with Void Elves. Nightborne are just their Horde counterpart for the sake of keeping things fair. A failed experiment and a compromise after 11 years of complaints (which failed to solve the problem it was supposed to address) is hardly grounds for a paradigm shift.

Also, Blizzard has not stated Neutral Races are not happening again either. You can't focus on half my argument to disprove it all.

They haven't said that in the same way that they say "anything can happen in the future." They're just avoiding making absolute claims, because maybe they want to change the way they make the game in the future. The important part is and always has been the question of why. As long as they have the values they do now, it's not going to happen.

[Obelisk Kai]

The thing that I feel was legitimately disrespectful about Ion's answer was basically the same he gave 7 months ago, so he's basically saying that in 7 months no one raised one single point worth addressing in the Q&A about High Elves.

That's just not caring about the community feedback, regardless if you agree with it. But the lack of acknowledgement of it all, of all the ideas people came up with, of all the points raised, is what feels very discouraging as a community, regardless of the answer. (Which really, doesn't surprise me because the faction identity thing alone was reasoning enough from a gameplay perspective)

And if he had acknowledged all that hard work before delivering his emphatic no, would you really have felt better?

'We've seen the posts on the forums, the concept art, the designs, the videos, we see there is a real passion out there, but I'm sorry guys it's not going to happen because as I said seven months ago Blood Elves are High Elves'.

He still would have been saying it meant nothing, except more directly. There was no way to let the pro High Elf community down gently on this one, particularly as they worked themselves into a frenzy of truly believing they were on the cusp of achieving their aim when there was literally no evidence to support that view.

And they would still be as angry and hurt this morning.

[orukam]

Time travel, random light forging, chiropractors, and contact lenses. Really, really stupid excuses used to give Horde players lots of extra options for their characters, but they cant let Alliance have more options because that would "break the lore."

Speaking of lore, High and Blood elves are NOT the same. One fraction elected to steal magic and use fel in a quest for power, the other fraction didnt. And Void Elves are NOT High Elves. They were Blood Elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for studying the void.

Perfect post, friend.

"protect faction identity" my ass!
Fu$% you, Ion!
Then gimme back my Night Elf identity!

[Obelisk Kai]

Actually I think they're referring to Nightborne, Blizzard straight up just gave Night Elves to the horde. Unlike Blood Elves and Void Elves (whose ears stick through plate helms and you can actually see skin tone) there isn't much of a way to tell a Nightborne from a Night Elf in full plate with an enclosed helm since they share a few skin tones.

So yeah, his 'faction identity' thing doesn't make a lot of sense with the whole "They're just Blood Elves with a different eye colour and a different Culture"...he literally just described the Nightborne difference to the Night Elves...and yet the Horde got them just fine...

Nightborne are as far from Night Elves as it is possible to get thematically.

One is Blizzard's take on Wood Elves, they live in forests and practice Druidism as the core of their culture.

The other dwells in cities and are based around the use and exaltation of arcane magic.

Nightborne share similar skin tones to Night Elves, but they are a darker shade of blue AND the model has been thinned in places to reflect their ten thousand years of urbane city life.

However, Blood Elves ARE High Elves. You cannot compare that to the divide between the Night Elves and the Nightborne. Or between the Blood/High Elves and the Void Elves. You are comparing the stream to the river.

[RangerDaz]

Highmoutain Taurens are basically Taurens. Slightly different horns and backstory.
Nightborn are basically Night Elves. Slightly nightwell influence and backstory.
Mag'har Orcs are basically Orcs. Slightly skin colors and backstory.

Please Ion, just say "I dunnot want to see my precios blood elves skin in the Alliance Scum hands"

The very justification of the Blood Elves going to the Horde is weaker than any argument here, including those who do not want high elves in the Alliance.

Blood Elfs mind:
The Amani Troll are my worst enemys. In the second war the Horde Allied to the troll. Eventually the Undead Scourge purged my beloved City.
Even so, all my hatred for a single racist human, General fu%$*# Garithos, is enough to join me in Troll, Orc, and Undeads.
Good logic.


Why you ever not make a a change that people would like or feel good? Right?

#IMissMatzen #IMissTheThrallHorde

Yes. I fully agree with you here.
I think the lore from burning crusade was messy.
I hated what they did to kaelthas, vashj and illidan.
But whats done is done. Time to move on.
I still believe high elves on alliance have potential for interesting story plots and conflicts. And ion said the future is open.

[OreoLover]

Glad ya got some attention in the Developer Q&A with Ion Hazzikostas - Battle for Azeroth

[Deleted]

Nightborne are as far from Night Elves as it is possible to get thematically.

One is Blizzard's take on Wood Elves, they live in forests and practice Druidism as the core of their culture.

The other dwells in cities and are based around the use and exaltation of arcane magic.

Nightborne share similar skin tones to Night Elves, but they are a darker shade of blue AND the model has been thinned in places to reflect their ten thousand years of urbane city life.

However, Blood Elves ARE High Elves. You cannot compare that to the divide between the Night Elves and the Nightborne. Or between the Blood/High Elves and the Void Elves. You are comparing the stream to the river.

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

[orukam]

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

Bulleye!

RIP Ions poor argument

[protip]

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

Their culture is 10000 years removed, and there's a lore justification for differing skin tones. Blood Elves are High Elves with green eyes by definition. If you change what a high elf looks like, Blood Elves are no longer what they're supposed to be. Nightborne don't have that kind of dependence on another race.

[Obelisk Kai]

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

No, what I am saying is Nightborne look very different from Night Elves and have a completely different culture.

High Elves look identical to Blood Elves and they share the same culture.

You are trying to force a comparison by disregarding the scale of the differences.

[Zorish]

Perfect post, friend.

"protect faction identity" my ass!
Fu$% you, Ion!
Then gimme back my Night Elf identity!

your NE identity hasn'e been touched at all. I mean your NE treehugging identity. NB are arcane users, not some druids or priests.

[corebit]

Pandaren was the start. They then gave the elves skeletons and looks to opposing factions. And now they go "Faction Identity is important" ... if you can't see how that doesn't follow you don't understand anything.

Also, Blizzard has not stated Neutral Races are not happening again either. You can't focus on half my argument to disprove it all.

If Pandaren was just the start, the Nightborne would have been the perfect candidate for the second neutral race. But Blizzard didn’t take that route.
The Nightborne/Void Elf swap, you do have a point that faction identity is diminished by these races, but at least they dont outright destroy it.
Obviously Blizzard never says things aren’t happening ever again out loud. No developer does that. But you can tell they are no longer interested in diminishing faction identity any further.

[denisgsv]

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

nightborne : https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160720132716

night elves : https://i.pinimg.com/originals/78/9a...8a984bcf95.jpg

We all agree that ingame nightborne models doesnt do them justice.


While Blood elves ARE High Elves 20 years passed, Kaelthas was HIGH ELVES king.

[Zorish]

So what you're saying is...Nightborne are Night Elves just with a (very) slightly different skin tone and different culture...

TOTALY different culture. Your precisious "High elves" have similar skin tones, same culture (aside 1 little point of mana draining) and different eye color.