Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Benomatic]

Well, you can't. Maybe try something else, or a different game.
... I mean, I wanna have a horse pet in The Sims 4. Sims 3 had it but Sims 4 pet expansion came out and didn't have horses.
Devs said there wasn't gonna be horses, but fuck their bullshit excuses. I want horses in The Sims 4.
... do you see where I'm going with this?
If not... Devs make the game. You don't like their choices you either adapt or just go play a different game.
Hell, devs are saying this isn't gonna happen and people still have a but and a couple of howevers.

Nope.

I want to play a race within the faction.

[Scyth]

Highmoutain Taurens are basically Taurens. Slightly different horns and backstory.
Nightborn are basically Night Elves. Slightly nightwell influence and backstory.
Mag'har Orcs are basically Orcs. Slightly skin colors and backstory.

Difference being HM and Mag'har are Horde races. Also NB look quite different than NE. You lot want the exact same model of the Horde's most popular race on Alliance, so your examples don't make any sense.

[Zorish]

Nope.

I want to play a race within the faction.

is it devs problem that vocal minority want race or it's problem of this "vocal minority"? pluss there is other "vocal minority" who against giving named race to other faction. So who blizz must piss of? one group or another?

[Ithekro]

your NE identity hasn'e been touched at all. I mean your NE treehugging identity. NB are arcane users, not some druids or priests.

Night Elf Highbourne Mages say hello.

[Zorish]

Night Elf Highbourne Mages say hello.

they are Highbourne, not nightborne. Last of our "highborne" turned either to Blood elves, or Nighborne. And still "Highborne" looked like Night elves. Our - look like Nightborne. Your are little minority under Tyrande watchfull eye and treehugging - our the city full of arcane.

[Obelisk Kai]

Night Elf Highbourne Mages say hello.

They still fulfil the Night Elf fantasy, physically Night Elven and living on the edges of their society, mistrusted and feared but still Night Elven.

[Benomatic]

is it devs problem that vocal minority want race or it's problem of this "vocal minority"? pluss there is other "vocal minority" who against giving named race to other faction. So who blizz must piss of? one group or another?

The Alliance player base who want to play and an unavailable alliance race is the issue. The race exists in the alliance yet not to the player.

[Deleted]

The thing that I feel was legitimately disrespectful about Ion's answer was basically the same he gave 7 months ago, so he's basically saying that in 7 months no one raised one single point worth addressing in the Q&A about High Elves.

That's just not caring about the community feedback, regardless if you agree with it. But the lack of acknowledgement of it all, of all the ideas people came up with, of all the points raised, is what feels very discouraging as a community, regardless of the answer. (Which really, doesn't surprise me because the faction identity thing alone was reasoning enough from a gameplay perspective)

I see this "he was disrespectful" line too often. He was not. What we have here is a simple case of "I didn't like his answer" & "My feelings are hurt" under false pretenses of "unprofessionalism". Not matter what he'd say, some would not find it reasonable regardless because they didn't get what they wanted.

But it was there all along. He gave the same answer of 7 months ago because people refused to accept it in the first instance, their philosophy didn't change as there is something higher to preserve: The elves that you want are already tied to a faction and a conflict is created - like we've been saying all along - by giving the same one to the opposite faction. Faction identity is important, it's something to keep. Things like "Ion doesn't know his lore" are equally unproductive, because this is not a lore problematic, but a gameplay one. It has always been.

There's also something amusing about claiming that there's lack of acknowledgment of all the community work and ideas when that was all voluntary and was not asked. You've tried to change their minds on something that perhaps wasn't in the table for discussion to begin with since the reasoning had been granted before. It didn't work. Nevertheless, they allowed you to voice your opinion, they followed your feedback and endless threads and passed it regardless. There's a strong hypocrisy in, throughout these weeks stating that CMs had your back by consolidating discussions, extending threads and join Discord or whatever - essentially garnering their support to your cause -, to then suddenly claim you were not acknowledged because you didn't like the answer.

I also see that ridiculous argumentation of Horde bias, when in fact you focused on nothing but this High Elves debacle. Instead some to shut down whatever side discussion was happening to give the impression you were gaining massive numbers and support on this request. And alliance feedback about what really should have been important - alliance races improvement and more customization options - was bare to none. I hope you at least now turn your efforts to other things highly requested and feasible, such as fixing Worgen female.

All in all, people need to move on. Without wanting to sound cruel, if you've been waiting for 14 years for this to happen and now suddenly you're crushed and this changes your perspective on how satisfactory the game feels to you... You should change your priorities, because they don't seem healthy. There's more in the game you can obtain enjoyment, there are other interesting races, various stories that you can enjoy. You never had them, this shouldn't be a gamebreaking point now. Perhaps there was something negative in feeding all this hope, but it affects mostly the unreasonable and immature that demand to be heard no matter what.

To end I'll say this: this discussion was exhausting, full of obsessive persistence, spamming, silencing other concerns, immature behavior and unreasoning. You were even able to drain people that didn't have any take in this discussion but just got fed up and now there's backlash coming from those as well. From what I'm starting to see, there is no need for Ion to intervene any further - the community will take their own hands on this matter.

I truly hope you are able to pass by this and enjoy your game. There are still reasons to enjoy it.

[Artelia]

They really need make quest where all high elves join the Horde.

Blizzard will never told you truth why they don't want create high elves as playable race.

If high elves will really be playable...60% of blood elves change faction to Alliance.

Now try some math. How many people from horde actually main blood elf? And what it means for Horde?

It's clear that more than 40% of Horde playerbase join alliance. And that is what Blizzard really can't handle.

Forget about it.... High elves never happen.

[LowestFormOfWit]

Night Elf Highbourne Mages say hello.

Bringing up Night Elf mages is really grasping at straws here. When you stop and think about it, Night Elf mages were one of the bigger lore tramplings we've seen.

Given that Night Elves have shunned Arcane magic almost as a force of all evil since the events of Queen Azshara and the Sundering, since banishing all the Highbourne (most becoming High Elves, those in Suramar isolating themselves becoming Nightborne, and the rest we assume are in the ranks of the Shen'dralar in DM) and shunning what Illidan did with the Well of Eternity, and more recently considering Tyrande's attitude towards the Arcane centric Nightborne, former Night elves, that she never would have seriously allowed Night elven mages back into the fold just because Deathwing reappeared.

But one of Cataclysm's selling points was extra class options (Warrior for Belf, Mage for Nelf, etc.) and a gameplay choice was made, so the show goes on.

This situation is no different. A gameplay choice was made to make Nightborne and Void Elves player races as correlating opposites on both sides, both giving the other faction a model they didn't have with a twist, both with the same exact set of class options.

To think that just because people sketched and fantasized and screamed for 7 months because they didn't listen the first time Ion said "Blood Elves are High Elves" at Blizzcon during Jesse's interview, means that somehow Ion is under burden to refute specific points or arguments brought up, is ridiculous.

His position didn't change. They acknowledged the feedback and came to a conclusion, but they aren't in a position where they have to justify their design choices to you. You aren't in some court case where you get to appeal a decision. You all just didn't like the outcome, and are mad.

At some point, you have to cut your losses.

[orukam]

your NE identity hasn'e been touched at all. I mean your NE treehugging identity. NB are arcane users, not some druids or priests.

Sorry, but at first, if u do not know, in Cata, became possible to be mage as NE. Its justified by the return of the Highborn to the NE society.
THEN, If i'm mage, All this old arcane culture, Azshara shits and Surama, are highborn after all, its belongs to NE culture

[Goldielocks]

That exact same argument about it hurting the game was made for all of those things that were mentioned. It's the same stupid scenario if you're going from that angle. That's what I'm telling you, I don't care if you want the elves or not.

Yeah the exact same argument was made, but this time the devs agree. There’s nothing more to this.

[Toppy]

Why are people arguing the cultural point in the first place? It was complete and utter nonsense for one simple reason:

The Void Elf culture is LESS removed from Blood Elf Culture than High Elf culture is. Void Elves recently left Blood Elf culture and have more in common with Blood Elves than the High Elves do, the High Elves having left many years before Void Elves, and for cultural reasons.

Likewise the argument of numbers is also complete none sense, again for the same reason that the argument applies even more so to Void Elves. Blizzards entire reasoning at the QA was undone by the Void Elves.

[Traycor]

Hey guys, Ion's comments on HE did feel pretty insulting, but I always felt they weren't going to come soon. He ends saying "Anything is possible in the future, but no plans 'near term' to add High Elves as an Allied Race". To me it just goes back to them not coming out so soon after Void Elves. I think High Elves will be something that would get added on much much much much later. Probably when the game isn't so concerned about "big differences" with regards to Races. Maybe even if they implement an actual "Sub Race" system. Regardless, pretty let down by the answer, focused too much on looks and reduced the factional divide and lore in an expansion focused on Faction v Faction warfare. I'll just continue to hope for High Elves on Alliance one day. Not really excited much about the AR system anymore though. Not sure there's ever been a race as hotly requested as High Elves and don't think there ever will be (unless it's Dragons or something extremely epic like Titans etc). Anyways it was a good run for this jaunt. Thankful for this community regardless of not getting High Elves this time 'round. Love to you HE supporters

Great attitude Flubber! We've had a fun time and come up with some great ideas. I've enjoyed our time together a lot.

[orukam]

..
To think that just because people sketched and fantasized and screamed for 7 months because they didn't listen the first time Ion said "Blood Elves are High Elves" at Blizzcon during Jesse's interview, means that somehow Ion is under burden to refute specific points or arguments brought up, is ridiculous.
...
His position didn't change. They acknowledged the feedback and came to a conclusion, but they aren't in a position where they have to justify their design choices to you. You aren't in some court case where you get to appeal a decision. You all just didn't like the outcome, and are mad.
...

If he does not have to justify himself, then ask him to stop trying it!
And if it is to justify, it is fundamental to use logical arguments.

At another point, yes it has to justify, because after all, there are customer and consumers insatiable with a point of the product.

This is not a judgment, but it is something that will define our opinion as consumers.

[Toppy]

Faction identity is reasonable if you don't have significant NPCs for that race on both sides. High Elves (or do you want to call them all Blood Elves now?) are on both sides, and have been since Blood Elves joined the Horde in TBC. Before that there were High Elves in the Alliance and the Blood Elves were isolating themselves back in Silvermoon, with a few showing up in places to basically be dicks to any player who did their quests. None were in the Horde at that time.

Adding to this, High Elves have been since WotLK more significant members of the Alliance than every race but Stormwind. They've done more for the alliance than Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves (who only work in a neutral way, not in relation to the Alliance), Draenei (again always acting in a neutral way, not in relation to the Alliance) and Worgen (who have done -nothing- till Legion) all combined.

[Traycor]

Glad ya got some attention in the Developer Q&A with Ion Hazzikostas - Battle for Azeroth

Lots of people were looking for an answer, so it was great that he was willing to address it.

[bowlink]

i said it once ill say it again. the only reason playable Alliance High Elves is that Ion doesn't want them for some reason. thats it. but i think this will and one of three ways. 1 Ion finally cracks ( might take while ) just keep poking him till he does, and they get up in. 2 he leaves the company for some reason and his replacement puts them in. 1 and 2 are most likely done when their subs drop again like they did in WoD. and finally number 3 the game server get shut down before playable Alliance high elves get put in.

[Obelisk Kai]

Great attitude Flubber! We've had a fun time and come up with some great ideas. I've enjoyed our time together a lot.

But flubber is grasping onto Ion's comments regarding 'not for the foreseeable future' and ignoring the real meat of his comments, the reasons why High Elves won't be a thing.

As long as Blizzard prizes the faction divide, they aren't going to grant a fair-skinned and majestic elven race to the Alliance as that would blur the boundaries too much.

The irony here is that if they ever stops prizing that faction divide, the truly insuperable obstacle to playable Alliance High Elves, we maybe in a situation where Blizzard is prepared to remove it so that everyone can group with each other regardless of race similar to other MMOs.

Which in practice will render Alliance High Elves even more redundant as there won't be an Alliance of any worth to play them on and Blood Elves are High Elves.

[Zorish]

Sorry, but at first, if u do not know, in Cata, became possible to be mage as NE. Its justified by the return of the Highborn to the NE society.
THEN, If i'm mage, All this old arcane culture, Azshara shits and Surama, are highborn after all, its belongs to NE culture

oh i am quite aware HOW EXACTLY your NE mages returned.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shen%27dralar this is your "mages"
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mordent_Evenshade there i see how your "Night elves" love mages (and this based on tyrande reaction and i suppose night elves in general didn't changed in legion)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Cautious_Return and thete i see that diplomacy for them to return was veeery hard thanks to your stubborn Night elves, who see every arcane user as potential demon helper world ender. Your Night elf arcane culture consists NOTHING. Even Blood laughed theis asses on how your "night elf" mages worked https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Hacking_the_Construct

and last - it BELONGED to Night elf empire 10k years ago, when your NIght elves WERE mages. Now it Nightborne belong to themself. And they took the hand who were willing to help, not the hand what thinked about trowing them in the jail.