1. #2861
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am not saying it isn't an explanation, I am saying that doesn't mean it isn't a bullshit one. Especially in a game where Pandas are cross fraction and the Belf and Nelf models are as well already. The argument is piss poor. It is nothing to do with authority at all really.
    It's piss poor in your mind, because it's not what you wanted to hear. It's music to my ears.

    Looks like we just have a difference of opinion. Honestly? It's a perfectly fine answer. Blizzard has been spammed and berated for over a decade about this race. They're no doubt tired of hearing the whining and complaining. They gave the race to the Horde for legitimate lore reasons and you special Alliance people can't accept it, or play Horde. It is everything to do with authority. They're telling you you can't have it, and you're still stomping your foot like a child.

    Either way, it isn't bullshit to me. Campaigning for a race the other faction has (well after it has been established as a Horde race) is bullshit, to me. Matter of perspective.

  2. #2862
    Quote Originally Posted by orukam View Post
    That's exactly the point! All these cultural reasons for Thalissa to take the Nightborn to the Horde, are equivalent to Vareesa, Silver Covenant and High Elves. Thank you for showing my point!

    Obs: The funniest is how horde fans ignore the fact that the most popular race of the Horde mortally hates almost all other horde races (Troll, Orcs and Undead)
    "Protect horde identity" my ass, dudes
    But....that is the Horde identity. It has always been the band of misfits and outcasts, struggling together to find a place in the world. Orcs are literal aliens and former slaves. Tauren facing extinction to centaur, Forsaken scorned by their former comrades and relatives in Humans, Blood Elves disenfranchised with the Alliance after the Scourge sacked Quel'thalas, etc.

    And if you're going to make arguements, please get names right. Her name is Thalyssra.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    daily reminder that blood elves ARE high elves and void elves ARE high elves

    And straight from the director’s mouth, if you wanna play a pretty white elf, the horde is waiting for you.
    I keep seeing this misquote all over the place. At no point does Ion say Void Elves are High Elves.

    The line is Blood Elves are High Elves. Direct quote is on the front page, and in my signature. Stop making this situation worse by misquoting and facilitating false information.
    "High Elves....honestly? Spoilers, guys, Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves."
    -Ion, Blizzcon 11/4/17

    "So...basically? Blood Elves kind of are High Elves."
    - Ion, Blizzard Q&A 4/26/18

  3. #2863
    I wonder how many of them would actually switch to a high elf if they became playable. I'm convinced a lot of these guys just get off on "protesting" and would stop caring if Blizzard caved.


    *plays for 10 minutes*

    "Meh.. they really are just blood elves"

    *logs off*

  4. #2864
    The fact that the most popular requested Alliance race is something as lazy as Blood Elves with blue eyes is sad.

    And no, I don't care about what you want to add to them. Different posture, tattoos, muscles, whatever... they're blue eyed blood elves in the game. Deal with it.

    Ask for Vrykul or something that literally isn't the laziest subrace in the game.

  5. #2865
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Artelia View Post
    They really need make quest where all high elves join the Horde.

    Blizzard will never told you truth why they don't want create high elves as playable race.

    If high elves will really be playable...60% of blood elves change faction to Alliance.

    Now try some math. How many people from horde actually main blood elf? And what it means for Horde?

    It's clear that more than 40% of Horde playerbase join alliance. And that is what Blizzard really can't handle.

    Forget about it.... High elves never happen.
    Or if they'd been sensible they would have just made it so that all the high elves became void elves but instead they went with the stupid choice of making them blood elf exiles.

  6. #2866
    Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    But also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group that still remains in Azeroth. There's a couple, we just met Alleria again for the first time, but they're not out there in the same way.
    So, to address some of the things Ion said yesterday. This statement here is very telling regarding what it would take to create a High Elf Allied Race. They need something distinct, and we need to see clear examples of it out in the game world. Currently it's very hard to describe the differences between Blood Elves and High Elves. Even though Void Elves and Blood Elves are almost exactly the same in ideology and theme (and clash hard with High Elves, hence their rejection by High Elf fans) it still remains that it is simple to describe the differences between Void Elves and Blood Elves. "Void". It's that easy. One word describes the clear difference and it's even in their name.

    For High Elves to be added, they need something clear and simple that sets them apart. Something the average player (who doesn't care about lore and can't tell a gnoll from a worgen) can instantly see and recognize. This is why Highmountain made the cut. "Moose" vs "Bull" is very easy to describe and identify. Lightforged are a little trickier (I still can't always tell them apart). But they are easy to describe. "Angel" vs "Alien".

    Right now, we don't have that for High Elves. Clearly, if added, Blizzard would want High Elves to have a simple and effective theme of this kind and implement it out in the world for the player to see. The Silver Covenant (as an example) would need to adopt this theme and be easy to tell apart from Blood Elves. Currently, only banner/colors set them apart, which is a poor theme.

    Here is the big win from Ion's interview:

    Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    If you want to be a fair-skinned, light blonde-haired, tall, majestic elf; that is a Blood Elf. And giving that race directly to the Alliance, I think would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions.
    We now know what Blizzard sees the Blood Elf design philosophy to be. Blood Elves are the tall, fair, majestic elf. And this can be summed up in one word: "Majestic". Their theme at creation was vampire/fel/slightly goth. This contrasted with High Elves because they were the majestic elf. But that's now changed. Blood Elves are the "Majestic" elves.

    So, the design for High Elves needs to clearly, easily, and simply describe a difference for High Elves that contrasts to "Majestic" elves. Most designs for High Elves try to retain the "Majestic" design philosophy because it was theirs when the Blood Elves were the "Fel" elves. Now that it's shifted, High Elves will never be implemented as long as we try to design them as the "also Majestic" elves. There has to be a simple, clear contrast.

    Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near term to add High Elves as an allied race.
    Most likely, they would implement such a difference over time, like how we were slowly introduced to most of the current Allied Races.
    Last edited by Traycor; 2018-04-27 at 02:10 PM.

  7. #2867
    Quote Originally Posted by LowestFormOfWit View Post
    But....that is the Horde identity. It has always been the band of misfits and outcasts, struggling together to find a place in the world. Orcs are literal aliens and former slaves. Tauren facing extinction to centaur, Forsaken scorned by their former comrades and relatives in Humans, Blood Elves disenfranchised with the Alliance after the Scourge sacked Quel'thalas, etc.

    ...

    Maybe I did not express myself correctly. What I meant to say in my observation was that the fate of the High Elves was decided, basically, by two self-inflated, selfish, and snobbish characters: Garrithos and Kael. It would be natural, in a case like this that the people be divided by the decision of their monarch, some follow their changes, like the Blood Elves, others do not accept them and they continue being what they were.

    This is exactly the case of the Nightborn with the NE.
    It is quite acceptable that ideological differences place people as enemies.
    But this should be for everyone, if not, Blizz will be giving preference to a public of the game.

  8. #2868
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Why should I care what Ghostcrawler personally thinks? That question was directed at HIM that HE (not Blizzard) is not a fan of Pandaren while THEY (Blizzard) didn't want to deny anyone Pandaren.
    See, this exact quote is the problem with you guys. You want them for your faction, but you don't care how the Horde feels about it. You don't care about how anyone feels about it as long as YOU get what YOU want. Why should Blizzard care about a bunch of self-important, selfish kids that go around with pitchforks calling for staff to be fired if they don't get their playable race? How can you sit there and say, "Why should I care..." this or that and expect Blizzard to care about you? Because you pay for a sub? Well, newsflash, the Horde BE players pay for a sub, too, and I guess since they aren't a bunch of entitled whiny-babies they decided to cater to them and defend them, instead.

    The hypocrisy is all too easy to see.

  9. #2869
    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    For High Elves to be added, they need something clear and simple that sets them apart. Something the average player (who doesn't care about lore and can't tell a gnoll from a worgen) can instantly see and recognize. This is why Highmountain made the cut. "Moose" vs "Bull" is very easy to describe and identify. Lightforged are a little trickier (I still can't always tell them apart). But they are easy to describe. "Angel" vs "Alien".
    High Elves/Blood Elves are unique in that they can't be separated without one of them going through a major transformation/mutation, and once they do go through that, the irony is those same people that clamored for them don't want them anymore. Case in point, Void Elves.
    When we looked at the relics of the precursors, we saw the height civilization can attain.
    When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height.
    - Keeper Annals

  10. #2870
    Quote Originally Posted by orukam View Post
    That's exactly the point! All these cultural reasons for Thalyssra to take the Nightborn to the Horde, are equivalent to Vareesa, Silver Covenant and High Elves. Thank you for showing my point!

    Obs: The funniest is how horde fans ignore the fact that the most popular race of the Horde mortally hates almost all other horde races (Troll, Orcs and Undead)
    "Protect horde identity" my ass, dudes
    only difference on your "so High elves" are their ignorance, pride, and human d**k s**king. Oh yes and Blue eyes of course wich is NOT unique to Aliance only.
    No different Architecture (while with NB and NE they are VERY different), no different culture (while NB and NE again very different), only hate, only pride, only lack of skill to take magic from living. They live with humans, sleep with humans, breed with humans. even in Pandaria your "High elves" called "Kitin'tor offense". KIRIN'TOR! LEAD BY FU**ING JAINA PROUDMORE! They again came only WITH other aliance force.
    Pandaria - WITH kirin'tor
    Legion - WITH night elves (because by themself they don't posses enough military power for any actuall help in suramar)
    They always backend of Aliance forces, because BY THE LORE aliance don't have race who can actually be "powerfull mages" (draenei posed as paladins, humans as solders, NE archers, gnomes - engineers, dwarfs gunners, worgen - savage)

  11. #2871
    Quote Originally Posted by orukam View Post
    Maybe I did not express myself correctly. What I meant to say in my observation was that the fate of the High Elves was decided, basically, by two self-inflated, selfish, and snobbish characters: Garrithos and Kael. It would be natural, in a case like this that the people be divided by the decision of their monarch, some follow their changes, like the Blood Elves, others do not accept them and they continue being what they were.

    This is exactly the case of the Nightborn with the NE.
    It is quite acceptable that ideological differences place people as enemies.
    But this should be for everyone, if not, Blizz will be giving preference to a public of the game.
    Night Elves and Nightborne look absolutely different, have two completely different aesthetics and are not confused by players ("b-but same in armor" isn't an argument).

    Blood Elves and High Elves look 99% the same, have the same aesthetics and are confused by players.

    Next question.

  12. #2872
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    High Elves/Blood Elves are unique in that they can't be separated without one of them going through a major transformation/mutation, and once they do go through that, the irony is those same people that clamored for them don't want them anymore. Case in point, Void Elves.
    Design is not easy. A clear, simple change that doesn't violate the core of what High Elves are would be difficult. It would take skill to pull it off.

  13. #2873
    We now know what Blizzard sees the Blood Elf design philosophy to be. Blood Elves are the tall, fair, majestic elf. And this can be summed up in one word: "Majestic". Their theme at creation was vampire/fel/slightly goth. This contrasted with High Elves because they were the majestic elf. But that's now changed. Blood Elves are the "Majestic" elves.

    So, the design for High Elves needs to clearly, easily, and simply describe a difference for High Elves that contrasts to "Majestic" elves. Most designs for High Elves try to retain the "Majestic" design philosophy because it was theirs when the Blood Elves were the "Fel" elves. Now that it's shifted, High Elves will never be implemented as long as we try to design them as the "also Majestic" elves. There has to be a simple, clear contrast.
    Blood elves were majestic since W3. Their sorceresses had crowns, their spellbreakers had golden armors. Also, where do you see goth theme? Where do you see fel as their main theme? In magisters' terrace? So nightborne are also fel elves?
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  14. #2874
    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Design is not easy. A clear, simple change that doesn't violate the core of what High Elves are would be difficult. It would take skill to pull it off.
    I would say impossible at this point without a major retcon or lore overhaul. The reason why people love High Elves is because they are majestic and graceful ... exactly like Blood Elves, and there lies the conundrum.
    When we looked at the relics of the precursors, we saw the height civilization can attain.
    When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height.
    - Keeper Annals

  15. #2875
    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Design is not easy. A clear, simple change that doesn't violate the core of what High Elves are would be difficult. It would take skill to pull it off.
    High Elves with tattoos, wild hair, muscles, scratches and all those things people have suggested to differentiate from Blood Elves would still not stop them from being majestic Tolkien elves. As long as they are fair skinned and predominantly blonde, they will never, ever happen.

  16. #2876
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Blood elves were majestic since W3. Their sorceresses had crowns, their spellbreakers had golden armors. Also, where do you see goth theme? Where do you see fel as their main theme? In magisters' terrace? So nightborne are also fel elves?


    I'm not arguing that they were not majestic (those crowned models were High Elves before the Blood Elf xpac however). We did have some very goth concept art of them in the beginning. And in WCIII, if you read their description, it was very fel oriented. The design as a whole was not "Majestic" as their driving theme.

    But all of that is beside the point. The point is, their whole design philosphy is now summed up as: "Majestic"
    That's what Blizzard sees the Blood Elves as with regards to theme/design

    High Elves have to distance themselves from "Majestic" if they are ever to be implemented. It needs to be clear, distinct, and preferably summed up in a single word.
    Last edited by Traycor; 2018-04-27 at 02:45 PM.

  17. #2877
    Quote Originally Posted by orukam View Post
    Maybe I did not express myself correctly. What I meant to say in my observation was that the fate of the High Elves was decided, basically, by two self-inflated, selfish, and snobbish characters: Garrithos and Kael. It would be natural, in a case like this that the people be divided by the decision of their monarch, some follow their changes, like the Blood Elves, others do not accept them and they continue being what they were.

    This is exactly the case of the Nightborn with the NE.
    It is quite acceptable that ideological differences place people as enemies.
    But this should be for everyone, if not, Blizz will be giving preference to a public of the game.
    The fate of the High Elves was decided by a human. A human by the name of Arthas Menethil. While Garithos was definitely a racist and was a major factor in Kael becoming disenfranchised with the Alliance, he was not the reason they joined the Horde.

    Garithos' actions made Kael accept aid from Lasy Vashj and the Naga, and eventually Illidan. This is circa Warcraft 3: TFT.

    The reason they join the Horde plays out in The Burning Crusade, where the majoriy of Blood Elves fold into the Horde via relations to Sylvanas and her Forsaken, as she was ranking Ranger General at the time of the invasion, and helps them find a home with the Horde.

    The scattered High Elves who either weren't in Quel'thalas at the time of the invasion, or those who didn't go along with the Blood Elves direction, were scattered to the wind, with the only 'major' group being a contingent of Dalaran High Elves in the Silver Covenant. Either way, High Elves as a greater society was eliminated.

    Eventually we find in Outland that Kael has turned to power mongering and dealing directly with the Legion, and so the Blood Elves kill him as part of a joint venture with the draenei in the Shattered Sun Offensive, and remove the Legion attack on the Sunwell, eventually leading to its holy fueled reignition.

    To try to boil it all down to Garithos and Kael were bad and that's why Alliance lost High Elves is a disservice to over a decade of storytelling across multiple games.
    "High Elves....honestly? Spoilers, guys, Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves."
    -Ion, Blizzcon 11/4/17

    "So...basically? Blood Elves kind of are High Elves."
    - Ion, Blizzard Q&A 4/26/18

  18. #2878
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    See, this exact quote is the problem with you guys. You want them for your faction, but you don't care how the Horde feels about it. You don't care about how anyone feels about it as long as YOU get what YOU want. Why should Blizzard care about a bunch of self-important, selfish kids that go around with pitchforks calling for staff to be fired if they don't get their playable race? How can you sit there and say, "Why should I care..." this or that and expect Blizzard to care about you? Because you pay for a sub? Well, newsflash, the Horde BE players pay for a sub, too, and I guess since they aren't a bunch of entitled whiny-babies they decided to cater to them and defend them, instead.

    The hypocrisy is all too easy to see.

    I agree with you.
    I am in favor of the existence of HE, but never to hurt Blood Elf fanbase.
    If HE were implemented, this should be done while preserving all cultural identity and differences between them. Much lore could be developed along this path.
    Including the rivalry between them.

  19. #2879
    Quote Originally Posted by orukam View Post
    I agree with you.
    I am in favor of the existence of HE, but never to hurt Blood Elf fanbase.
    If HE were implemented, this should be done while preserving all cultural identity and differences between them. Much lore could be developed along this path.
    Including the rivalry between them.
    How do you change the aesthetic of the High Elves without making them something besides a High Elf? People just want a Tolkien-archetype elf on Alliance, and Blizz has said "tough titty".

  20. #2880
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    High Elves with tattoos, wild hair, muscles, scratches and all those things people have suggested to differentiate from Blood Elves would still not stop them from being majestic Tolkien elves. As long as they are fair skinned and predominantly blonde, they will never, ever happen.
    I do agree to a certain extent. It's moving in the right direction, but it's missing a certain something that will set it apart. Currently, my designs cannot be summed up into one word that is in sharp contrast to "Majestic".

    The "Allies of the Blue Dragonflight" concept I floated around near the beginning would have been a nice, sharp contrast: "Dragon". But people didn't enjoy the idea. It might be that I should revisit that and try to explain/implement it better.

    Whatever theme it is, it needs that kind of "oomph" to it.

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