Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Traycor]

High and blood elf differences were way more stark before Blizzard decided to whitewash the blood elves and give them the Sunwell back.
In essence, it was the blood elves that became more like high elves after that.

Still, the themes are different. Just the exile and the choice to not rely on magic so much is already a big thematic difference. If they got focus, High elves could easily be given the search of a new home and new beginning as themes. They would be humbled by their trials rather than proud. They'd sherish companionship of other races rather than be isolationist snobs that only make alliances out of convenience. They'd avoid relying too much in magic rather than use it in their everyday lives.

If a distinct visual thematic or a magic-based transformation was indeed needed, then my old idea of them using the Storm Staff of Antonidas (which they helped Jaina acquire and was never used for anything) to become lightning-themed would be a thousand times better than void elves.

The lightning theme was moving in the right direction. That's the kind of thing we need. It just misses the mark somehow. It also retains the "Majestic" theme, which would require adjusting. My designs are the same way, close but no potato.

Prior to yesterday, it was VERY difficult to describe what the Blood Elf design philosophy even was, which made it hard to contrast against. Now we know the yard stick, and that makes things INFINITELY easier with designing High Elves.

[Zorish]

High and blood elf differences were way more stark before Blizzard decided to whitewash the blood elves and give them the Sunwell back.
In essence, it was the blood elves that became more like high elves after that.

good point, but it is done now.

Still, the themes are different. Just the exile and the choice to not rely on magic so much is already a big thematic difference. If they got focus, High elves could easily be given the search of a new home and new beginning as themes. They would be humbled by their trials rather than proud. They'd sherish companionship of other races rather than be isolationist snobs that only make alliances out of convenience. They'd avoid relying too much in magic rather than use it in their everyday lives.

their groups don't have unity. QT lodge abbadoned magic totaly, while Dalaran and SW elves LIVE IN PLACES FULL OF MAGIC! FULL! They not abbadoned it. They still use it, but cope with their addiction by other sources.

If a distinct visual thematic or a magic-based transformation was indeed needed, then my old idea of them using the Storm Staff of Antonidas (which they helped Jaina acquire and was never used for anything) to become lightning-themed would be a thousand times better than void elves.

Storm elves? hm honestly it's interesting idea, Will still be blue but more "pale blue", maybe with lightning marking on their bodies. This could work, but we still have other thing "too many elf races" for now. So not in the nearest 2-3 years plus what the reason for jaine to waste such thing on them?
Maybe to the opposite part we could infuse some Blood elves with Anima (they took golems from ToT, and use them) so red marking on their bodies, wich will lead to some of Blood elves into really "blood" theme. interesting interesting.
but still too many elves, not in near 2-4 years.

[Traycor]

They can only bring good story possibilities if Blizzard throws the Void Elves under the bus, and they start cannibalizing on Blood Elf lore to do that.

I've seen this idea a few times now. We've getting 8 Allied Races so far, and I would guess several more are on the way after that since they are asking for feedback on more. Let's just say... 12 Allied Races.

There's no way 12 new races are all going to get lots of new story and all hold the spotlight. It's not feasible or possible. MANY (most?) of these races will all fade into the background. High Elves would likely be the same way, with Vareesa/Alleria/Sylvannas story lines only bringing High Elves to light. And this will happen whether High Elves are playable or not, because Vareesa is tied up with her sisters' stories.

Realistically, I don't see High Elves eating up any more story than what was going to happen anyway.

[RangerDaz]

Blizzard can't even handle giving many core races their deserved spotlight for 14 years, yet you think their writers can suddenly and magically make both Void Elves and High Elves work without stepping on each others' toes. I mean you can only be willfully blind at this point .

It also seems you're not paying attention to BFA development, because Void Elves are taking a much more active role participating in scenarios and quest hubs, and they can only do that without High Elves getting in the way.

Well i have to give you some reason when you tell Blizzard has had many missed opportunities in the past on creating unique and interesting stories for each of their current races. But the truth is the story arcs related to the sunwell and the windrunner sisters do have a lot of potential, and that doesn't necessarily mean it will ruin each one of the races involved on the story. It is not a question of magic. It is a question whether blizzard has the capability of doing it, or not.

Besides, if you check the current normal and allied races, what is the future spotlight some of them will have in the future? Let's say... Pandaren. What future stories will they have? What future stories will Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei have?

This really depends on what Blizzard wants to focus on, when they create new zones, quests and storylines.

[Zorish]

update: and while i am still against another Thalassian elf model used, this last idea of Storm elves at least have reason for existing and COULD really took them away from "High elf/Blood elf" theme. Three problems:
1) population (you can't really know how many horde players will go aliance after this. Sad to say, but biggest part of "HE"-fans really don't care about lore)
2) Too many elves (yes i repeat this third time)
3) reason of their existance by lore. No i can already think about something that Rommath invented the way to sever elven connection from Sunwell and after hard desicion LTT agreed to do so for "Aliance elves". So they would felt backlash, but thanks to jaina she could try for some ritual and use thunder power on them. But for now it's too stretched - "HE" population dwindle with every conflict and every expansion (Aluric come to silvermoon for negotiations, so who know how many of the remaining "High elves" not returned to silvermoon after reignition of sunwell, plus others as we see gone to VE and maybe already undergo transformation).

[DeicideUH]

their groups don't have unity. QT lodge abbadoned magic totaly, while Dalaran and SW elves LIVE IN PLACES FULL OF MAGIC! FULL! They not abbadoned it. They still use it, but cope with their addiction by other sources.

Uniting the disparate groups is an interesting story by itself.

Storm elves? hm honestly it's interesting idea, Will still be blue but more "pale blue", maybe with lightning marking on their bodies. This could work, but we still have other thing "too many elf races" for now. So not in the nearest 2-3 years plus what the reason for jaine to waste such thing on them?
Maybe to the opposite part we could infuse some Blood elves with Anima (they took golems from ToT, and use them) so red marking on their bodies, wich will lead to some of Blood elves into really "blood" theme. interesting interesting.
but still too many elves, not in near 2-4 years.

It's a "what could have been" idea. The point is that void elves missed the mark completely, and that's why the high elf movement got so strong. Blizzard could have tried something different. The roots for "Storm elves" are even already in lore, as the Staff of Antonidas was a dropped plot after patch 5.2. Jaina is not even using it in BfA.

[Traycor]

Too many elves

I do get this concern, and it has some validity. But we have four flavors of human with Stormwind, Kul'tiras, Gilneas, and Lordearon (Forsaken). Mag'har Orcs also give us a bunch of clans in one with lots of different looks that represent multiple clans. That's like 5 or 6 different types of orcs.


Over time, I think "too many elves" will become a moot point as more of each type of race becomes playable.

[Zorish]

I do get this concern, and it has some validity. But we have four flavors of human with Stormwind, Kul'tiras, Gilneas, and Lordearon (Forsaken). Mag'har Orcs also give us a bunch of clans in one with lots of different looks that represent multiple clans. That's like 5 or 6 different types of orcs.


Over time, I think "too many elves" will become a moot point as more of each type of race becomes playable.

2 of this flavours are not human in it's normam meaning. they WERE humans, but now their "race" changed (worgen and Forsaken). Plus sadly humans most of the times really don't have "subraces" in fantasy worlds. Only nations

And orcs - that's why they gathered them in one "race". Because it will took too many AR places for 5-6 clans being separate ARs (wich honestly you are trying with more elves). So i still count them as one race.

[Nuba]

mumble jumble.

once again you prooved to me that you are clueless by making such pointless arguments in defense of something you yourself believe to be true but isn't a fact but rather what you believe.
in order for blizzard to give a race to a faction they have prooved over and over again that they'll have to be different races, to LOOK different, to have different customizations. high elves and blood elves are the exact same race. blizzard isnt ready to copypaste a horde race to the alliance.

[corebit]

I've seen this idea a few times now. We've getting 8 Allied Races so far, and I would guess several more are on the way after that since they are asking for feedback on more. Let's just say... 12 Allied Races.

There's no way 12 new races are all going to get lots of new story and all hold the spotlight. It's not feasible or possible. MANY (most?) of these races will all fade into the background. High Elves would likely be the same way, with Vareesa/Alleria/Sylvannas story lines only bringing High Elves to light. And this will happen whether High Elves are playable or not, because Vareesa is tied up with her sisters' stories.

Realistically, I don't see High Elves eating up any more story than what was going to happen anyway.

I'm not really talking about overall screen-time, It's more the Void Elves are just getting started with their lore development, and they would all be immediately shoved into the background if the High Elves enter the scene. Their connection with the Void, their potential story with Void Lords, and the fact that they darker and more power hungry, offer not only a lot more story possibilities, but also a nice counterpart to the otherwise Lawful Good Alliance.

High Elves don't do any of that. They're just another goody-two-shoes race in a goody-two-shoes faction.

[Traycor]

2 of this flavours are not human in it's normam meaning. they WERE humans, but now their "race" changed (worgen and Forsaken). Plus sadly humans most of the times really don't have "subraces" in fantasy worlds. Only nations

And orcs - that's why they gathered them in one "race". Because it will took too many AR places for 5-6 clans being separate ARs. So i still count them as one race.

Fair enough. I would argue that if Night Elves and Blood Elves both had human ears and were called "Night People" and "Blood Folk", no one would have any idea they were connected. They are highly distinct. Basically people are saying they don't want races called elf, because there are other races with pointy ears, like goblins and worgen. "Too many elves" is kind of arbitrary.

As for orcs... how many "races" they occupy doesn't change how many players will or won't play them, or how wide an array of orc types they will allow us to see in game. So, for game play and visuals we will now see MANY more types of orcs than we see now. A lot more. That was my point. High elves only add one more type of a race we have two of (Blood and Void). I think in practice this will make a much smaller difference than people imagine it would in writing. Just my opinion.

[Swindle]

Inb4 "HALF ELVES"

[Garfurion]

High and blood elf differences were way more stark before Blizzard decided to whitewash the blood elves and give them the Sunwell back.
In essence, it was the blood elves that became more like high elves after that.

Still, the themes are different. Just the exile and the choice to not rely on magic so much is already a big thematic difference. If they got focus, High elves could easily be given the search of a new home and new beginning as themes. They would be humbled by their trials rather than proud. They'd sherish companionship of other races rather than be isolationist snobs that only make alliances out of convenience. They'd avoid relying too much in magic rather than use it in their everyday lives.

If a distinct visual thematic or a magic-based transformation was indeed needed, then my old idea of them using the Storm Staff of Antonidas (which they helped Jaina acquire and was never used for anything) to become lightning-themed would be a thousand times better than void elves.

I think a problem for Blizzard is that the theme differences, mainly isolationists vs cosmopolitans, is hard to make visible in game. In the end Blizzard's decision is mainly a skin-color issue. Void elves could have gotten a forced transformation in combat, like Worgen, but that apparently wasn't an option.

From Ion's answer yesterday it is clear they wanted visually distinct allied races, not lore distinct allied races which means other often requested races like Wildhammer Dwarves are also unlikely. It's a bit of a problem since Humans&Dwarves from different nations look more or less the same while Orcs and Trolls come in different colors. It requires Blizzard to come up with "creative" solutions for the Alliance while for the Horde they have more existing races to choose from ( e.g jungle, ice and forest trolls, taunka, yaungol).

[corebit]

Inb4 "HALF ELVES"

Too late for that. On the official forums they have already started the "Half Elves as Playable Race" thread.

[Traycor]

I'm not really talking about overall screen-time, It's more the Void Elves are just getting started with their lore development, and they would all be immediately shoved into the background if the High Elves enter the scene.

I get what you're saying, but in practice I don't think that would happen. If Alleria is part of the story, that's the Void Elf story elements. Most races are just represented by their faction leader in the story with very little generic race representation.

High Elves are going to get story representation regardless when Vareesa is involved. That's the High Elf story elements whether they are playable or not.

Both those things are going to happen. It would in no way invalidate Void Elves or shove them into the background. Not unless Alleria is going away. On top of that, Void Elves got about zero lore to begin with, so I would guess Blizzard is intending to push their story in a big way.

[Syegfryed]

omg hahah in this pro high elf discord they’re talking about bringing in celebrities like JOHNNY DEPP to help them fight for high elves. lmaooo

muhahaha. i can't stop laughing. People on HE discird want to contact Morhaime or even Bobby Kotick with petition about HE and how Ion insulted them. like really
oh yeah and ivestors too!

sadistics, post the pics

There's been some real gems over there.

http://puu.sh/Absug/eec7918a95.png

ROFL

some more gems https://imgur.com/a/SMRzC8Z

Im laughing but also sad

but im laughing way more

[RangerDaz]

I think Ion totally forgot about this.

Besides, if they want, they can make them visually different.
It is just a question of wanting it, or not.

[A Chozo]

It's getting weird.

There are High Elf fans who want a faction - The Silver Covenant - to have it's race playable. High Elves. Ok. Even if the culture is almost identical to the Blood Elves, and the appearances too, those players understand that it's not High Elves if it's just a skin of the Void Elves.

Then there are Alliance Players who simply want to be a fair-skinned blonde elf with blue eyes, who would settle with new skins for Void Elves. For those players, Ion's answer is perfect. Those are not fans of the High Elves history in Warcraft, they just want to be white elves and don't want to join the Horde for whatever reason. It's a shame they choose the wrong faction for their specific roleplay desire.

[Aeula]

some more gems https://imgur.com/a/SMRzC8Z

These people need a psychiatrist so bad it's depressing.

[Traycor]

From Ion's answer yesterday it is clear they wanted visually distinct allied races, not lore distinct allied races

To be more precise, I think it would be races with distinct design. Visuals are one way to show that. The main thing is you need to be able to quickly and easily tell the difference and describe the different. Visuals are the strongest way to do that, but now the only way.

So far, I think Lightforged fail this test. They are barely visually different, and conceptually they are the same. Only the idea of "Angel" vs "Alien" really distinguishes them. If Lightforged had been proposed as a Horde race, they would not have been made because they are too similar. But within the same faction, these minor differences are apparently acceptable.

So High Elves, being cross faction from Blood Elves, need a clearly defined, highly simple new theme.