Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Goldielocks]

High Elves don't do any of that. They're just another goody-two-shoes race in a goody-two-shoes faction.

I don't understand how this even makes sense. The High Elves were never good people, were they? Even now, both forms of Elves are doing what they do to survive, just in different ways. This is the Tolkien trope. They're arrogant, isolationist, and help when they deem it's their business.

I fail to see why people are so into High Elves for this reason. At least Blood Elves are not in self denial about how they're fucks.

[Garfurion]

the fact that they darker and more power hungry, offer not only a lot more story possibilities, but also a nice counterpart to the otherwise Lawful Good Alliance.
.

The same can be said for Worgen and they didn't even get to experience the end of their starting zone. Dark Iron, another race with potential, have been ignored for years and their introduction quest line seems to be "Welcome to the Alliance" so we can expect them to be ignored for the next decade. Moira's son will probably still be a baby when Anduin dies of old age.

Based on Blizzard's track record when it comes to writing stories for Alliance races we can expect Void Elves to be ignored, which might be for the best since it's doubtful you can heal a Void Elf with holy magic so they will all be dead after the first raid/mythic+

[Zorish]

. A lot more. That was my point. High elves only add one more type of a race we have two of (Blood and Void). I think in practice this will make a much smaller difference than people imagine it would in writing. Just my opinion.

sadly but seeing how your collegues in "pro HE" club calling horde "savages, ugly races and etc." and i myself heard this from some of my fellows the problems is deeper than you can think. People just were raised on stereotypes where fantasy world elves are good guys, always on good side, always pretty, always powerfull, and always ally themself with humans and dwarfs on the "good side". And only type of elves who on "evil" side are twisted creatures as Dark elves (drow). In warcraft we see this different. and judging by how many people want this "HE" in aliance i see that they ignored everything we got in WC3, BC and now Chronicles.
They want to be pretty, innocent (every time whe someone say "they stayed with friends" makes me have toothache", like really. you people betrayed your own kind in dire times of need and don't honor the fallen taking back "High elf" name). They want model only! not lore, only pretty model.

And if at least 30% of Blood elves will switch sides you will get not 45% aliance and 55% horde, but probably 60% Aliance and 40% horde. (actuall math would be helpfull, this is just ideas about numbers)
And some people play BE only because of racials skill. After BfA ners we must wait and see where this top players will go, and only AFTER that we must judge what the actuall numbers of players in horde and aliance. If they will go to something 48-52 this will be balance and bringing "HE" would lead to disasted in horde side. If not... well - now we can think.

[Garfurion]

To be more precise, I think it would be races with distinct design. Visuals are one way to show that. The main thing is you need to be able to quickly and easily tell the difference and describe the different. Visuals are the strongest way to do that, but now the only way.

So far, I think Lightforged fail this test. They are barely visually different, and conceptually they are the same. Only the idea of "Angel" vs "Alien" really distinguishes them. If Lightforged has been proposed as a Horde race, they would not have been made because they are too similar. But within the same faction, these minor differences are apparently acceptable.

So High Elves, being cross faction from Blood Elves, need a clearly defined, high simple new theme.

Lightforged could have been customization options like Highmountains but making them allied races is easier to sell.

[Traycor]

Lightforged could have been customization options like Highmountains but making them allied races is easier to sell.

For sure. But with the Highmountain, "Moose" vs "Bull" means that it is super simple to describe and see the difference.

This is what High Elves need if they are ever to become playable. Blood Elf theme = "Majestic"
The High Elf theme needs to contrast that and be just as simple.

[Zorish]

Im laughing but also sad

but im laughing way more

you are welcome

[Swindle]

Too late for that. On the official forums they have already started the "Half Elves as Playable Race" thread.

Oh dear god... I can feel the cancer.

[Goldielocks]

It is just a question of wanting it, or not.

They'll never want to do it. Creating two very similar races on both sides with the same race that saved the Horde in 2007 is something Blizzard (or even Activision) doesn't want to touch. They're in it for the health of the game first. Regardless of how much money this would make, it would pale in comparison to the amount they'd lose if the game starts to fall apart because the factions go out of wack once more.

You can disagree with this outcome, but Blizzard clearly believes this is a possibility, which is why the faction integrity matters to them. High Elves will never come, and it's why Void Elves look so different from Blood Elves.

[Zorish]

This is what High Elves need if they are ever to become playable. Blood Elf theme = "Majestic"
The High Elf theme needs to contrast that and be just as simple.

remember why they called "High" elves. Their name is almost = "majestic". They call so because they are "higher " than others. Pretty, skillful, magic proficient.
like i said - stereotypes "High elves" = mages, beautifull, proud, etc. I think what you first need in concept is delete word "High" from their name. because most of the "high elves" without changes gone horde. You need something new, without "high" word. Ai i suggested few posts before try really with storm elves. Don't bring elven past. go with future.

[Daevelian]

Well, this looks like a horrible thread to have stumbled in to... disgusting people on both sides of the fence it seems.

Though i am still of the opinion that more choices are better than less choices, and that to oppose such choices being available is akin to say, opposing gay marriage levels of douchebaggery. Especially since the choices being made available has absolutely no effect on the opposition at all.

Oh noes! mah horde identity / marriage identity!

(for the record, i don't actually care if high elves are made playable, i just think the choice should exist and denial of the choice is the same type of mindset that keeps the real world from advancing.)

[Traycor]

Updated the OP:

But also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group that still remains in Azeroth. There's a couple, we just met Alleria again for the first time, but they're not out there in the same way.

So, to address some of the things Ion said yesterday (4/26/18). This statement here is very telling regarding what it would take to create a High Elf Allied Race. They need something distinct, and we need to see clear examples of it out in the game world. Currently it's very hard to describe the differences between Blood Elves and High Elves. Even though Void Elves and Blood Elves are almost exactly the same in ideology and theme (and clash hard with High Elves, hence their rejection by High Elf fans) it still remains that it is simple to describe the differences between Void Elves and Blood Elves. "Void". It's that easy. One word describes the clear difference and it's even in their name.

For High Elves to be added, they need something clear and simple that sets them apart. Something the average player (who doesn't care about lore and can't tell a gnoll from a worgen) can instantly see and recognize. This is why Highmountain made the cut. "Moose" vs "Bull" is very easy to describe and identify. Lightforged are a little trickier (I still can't always tell them apart). But they are easy to describe. "Angel" vs "Alien".

Right now, we don't have that for High Elves. Clearly, if added, Blizzard would want High Elves to have a simple and effective theme of this kind and implement it out in the world for the player to see. The Silver Covenant (as an example) would need to adopt this theme and be easy to tell apart from Blood Elves. Currently, only banner/colors set them apart, which is a poor theme.

Here is the big win from Ion's interview:

If you want to be a fair-skinned, light blonde-haired, tall, majestic elf; that is a Blood Elf. And giving that race directly to the Alliance, I think would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions.

We now know what Blizzard sees the Blood Elf design philosophy to be. Blood Elves are the tall, fair, majestic elf. And this can be summed up in one word: "Majestic". Their theme at creation was vampire/fel/slightly goth. This contrasted with High Elves because they were the majestic elf. But that's now changed. Blood Elves are the "Majestic" elves.

So, the design for High Elves needs to clearly, easily, and simply describe a difference for High Elves that contrasts to "Majestic" elves. Most designs for High Elves try to retain the "Majestic" design philosophy because it was theirs when the Blood Elves were the "Fel" elves. Now that it's shifted, High Elves will never be implemented as long as we try to design them as the "also Majestic" elves. There has to be a simple, clear contrast.

Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near term to add High Elves as an allied race.

Most likely, they would implement such a difference over time, like how we were slowly introduced to most of the current Allied Races.

[RangerDaz]

What about it? It shows Night Elves and High Elves.

See after 2:10

[Goldielocks]

Especially since the choices being made available has absolutely no effect on the opposition at all.

Oh noes! mah horde identity / marriage identity!

(for the record, i don't actually care if high elves are made playable, i just think the choice should exist and denial of the choice is the same type of mindset that keeps the real world from advancing.)

lol if this isn't the biggest false equivalence that I've ever seen in regards to this topic. People don't argue against High Elves for the integrity of the Horde in itself. They do it because the prospect threatens the health of the game. There's a reason why Blizzard is not giving people High Elves. Must be, considering how much money they stand to make.

Being against gay marriage has no pros. It does nothing for the person aside from satisfying their stubborn and bigoted views. Stopping High Elves from being a thing saves the game from faction imbalance. Disagree all you want, but it's a POV the devs have.

"I don't actually care"

lmfao right, comparing this to gay marriage is a pretty big leap are you sure you mean that?

[Zorish]

"mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthe of the name High elves". End of story i guess? one who is Highborne by her birth say that they are unworthy of that name, and that they "mingle" with lesser races" wich reduce their numbers in future

[corebit]

To be more precise, I think it would be races with distinct design. Visuals are one way to show that. The main thing is you need to be able to quickly and easily tell the difference and describe the different. Visuals are the strongest way to do that, but now the only way.

So far, I think Lightforged fail this test. They are barely visually different, and conceptually they are the same. Only the idea of "Angel" vs "Alien" really distinguishes them. If Lightforged had been proposed as a Horde race, they would not have been made because they are too similar. But within the same faction, these minor differences are apparently acceptable.

Lightforged Draenei don't need to "pass" this test because their cousins are on the same faction. Same goes the Tauren/HM Tauren and Orcs/Mag'har Orcs.

I don't understand how this even makes sense. The High Elves were never good people, were they? Even now, both forms of Elves are doing what they do to survive, just in different ways. This is the Tolkien trope. They're arrogant, isolationist, and help when they deem it's their business.

I fail to see why people are so into High Elves for this reason. At least Blood Elves are not in self denial about how they're fucks.

The Alliance-aligned remnants are neither arrogant nor isolationist though. They willingly live in Human cities, and they breed with Humans and create half-elf children with them. I mean they remind more of Witcher 3 city elves without any sense of pride than the Tolkien trope.

The same can be said for Worgen and they didn't even get to experience the end of their starting zone. Dark Iron, another race with potential, have been ignored for years and their introduction quest line seems to be "Welcome to the Alliance" so we can expect them to be ignored for the next decade. Moira's son will probably still be a baby when Anduin dies of old age.

Based on Blizzard's track record when it comes to writing stories for Alliance races we can expect Void Elves to be ignored, which might be for the best since it's doubtful you can heal a Void Elf with holy magic so they will all be dead after the first raid/mythic+

I've seen some BfA quests where Dark Iron Dwarf NPC act like jerks and hand out quests where you dish out a lot of violence towards the Horde.

[DeicideUH]

I think a problem for Blizzard is that the theme differences, mainly isolationists vs cosmopolitans, is hard to make visible in game. In the end Blizzard's decision is mainly a skin-color issue.

To me, with the awesome designers Blizzard has at hand, it's a matter of them putting a good story first then asking their designers to work visual ideas on it.

Void elves are a failure not because of how they look, but because their lore is terrible. Void elves feel like an afterthought, Blizzard didn't try to get what people expected of high elves and instead of building something over that they made its complete opposite. And they were not seeded at all, only forced upon us. If people had gotten time to know and like them beforehand, maybe the whole issue wouldn't exist. Heck, there was so little attention given to them that they barely appear in BfA so far. Their big presence in Siege of Lordaeron is Alleria opening a portal and a few bow-wielding generic rangers coming throught. And then the gnome machines that are also brought by her steal the spotlight.

Right now, if you don't like the blue color, you have no reason to like void elves, because their "uniqueness" is essentially that.

[Traycor]

Lightforged Draenei don't need to "pass" this test because their cousins are on the same faction. Same goes the Tauren/HM Tauren and Orcs/Mag'har Orcs.

Agreed. I had that in my post as well, but I probably rambled too much.

[RangerDaz]

"mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthe of the name High elves". End of story i guess? one who is Highborne by her birth say that they are unworthy of that name, and that they "mingle" with lesser races" wich reduce their numbers in future

My opinion is this is not end of the story. Liadrin's elves and Vereesa's elves are going in different directions, making them different.
As i said before, it is blizzard's game afterall. If they want to bury Vereesa's people's story arc, it is their choice. But today they exist ingame and have relevance.

Hopefully they will give logical reasons to justify their decisions.

[EbaumsTipster]

There is an unhealthy obsession with "lore" for a race that hasn't done much but offer quests in Wow's lifetime.

[Goldielocks]

The Alliance-aligned remnants are neither arrogant nor isolationist though. They willingly live in Human cities, and they breed with Humans and create half-elf children with them. I mean they look more like Witcher 3 city elves without any sense of pride than the Tolkien trope to me.

Which is true, but at the same time those HE are all broken shells of their former selves. The Blood Elves are the most like how the High Elves used to be. Egotistical and the like.

Ion's POV makes sense honestly. The majority of the remaining HE are just broken tools that have been swallowed by Alliance society. There aren't many "whole" HE remaining. Those that still consider themselves as superior beings are likely fuckwits (Vereesa).