Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Shinkishi]

And I pointed out that the similarity you replied with is nothing more than a coincidence. The same argument used in two different situations, one correctly and one incorrectly.

There's a gap in logic, all right.

I mean, you actually didn't say that at all. If that's what you want to say now, cool. Backpedal as you want, it makes no difference to me. Your original reply was nonsense.

[Deleted]

Not really. Game devs shouldn't have to heel to their fanbase. Just because the fans want it, doesn't mean it needs to happen. If it did, then Holinka would have been gone a long time ago.

You missed my point. I didn't say that game developers have to implement everything that the fans want. My point was that game developers should look into the biggest topics that are being discussed, no matter if they are interested in them or nor, or if they plan to implement them or not. This is a simple feedback collection, it doesn't mean you have to react on it, but you have to collect it.

[Goldielocks]

I mean, you actually didn't say that at all. If that's what you want to say now, cool. Backpedal as you want, it makes no difference to me. Your original reply was nonsense.

Think whatever you like, it's still a meaningless prospect lmao

You missed my point. I didn't say that game developers have to implement everything that the fans want. My point was that game developers should look into the biggest topics that are being discussed, no matter if they are interested in them or nor, or if they plan to implement them or not. This is a simple feedback collection, it doesn't mean you have to react on it, but you have to collect it.

Which they do. I didn't say that Ornyx wasn't doing that. I was saying that making it known to the pro-helfers and adding emojis and shit is pure placation. After Ornyx did it, tons of them rejoiced, thinking it meant something. They even took Talesins video as a step forward, and they don't even work for Blizzard.

Blizzard knows what they're doing here. These people are being baited, even now.

[Shinkishi]

Think whatever you like, it's still a meaningless prospect lmao

It's not meaningless to point out someone's bad argument. You don't like it because it was done to you, that's your problem.

[Darththeo]

See, this exact quote is the problem with you guys. You want them for your faction, but you don't care how the Horde feels about it. You don't care about how anyone feels about it as long as YOU get what YOU want. Why should Blizzard care about a bunch of self-important, selfish kids that go around with pitchforks calling for staff to be fired if they don't get their playable race? How can you sit there and say, "Why should I care..." this or that and expect Blizzard to care about you? Because you pay for a sub? Well, newsflash, the Horde BE players pay for a sub, too, and I guess since they aren't a bunch of entitled whiny-babies they decided to cater to them and defend them, instead.

The hypocrisy is all too easy to see.

Hey, I AM A HORDE PLAYER (I only have 2 alliance toons I play vs 12 Horde). I am not arguing Pro-Helf Alliance ... I am arguing that the reason for Blizzard to not allow it is bullshit. I am fine with Blizzard not allowing it, but I would like their reason to be better than "too bad. We don't want to."

[Goldielocks]

It's not meaningless to point out someone's bad argument. You don't like it because it was done to you, that's your problem.

Nah my logic is fine actually.

"Think what you like" has a meaning to it, you know lol

[Deleted]

Ah, so then the Highborne were just a luck transformation from Trolls? And Night Elves, High Elves, and Nightborne were a luck transformations from Highborne? Felbloods and Wretched were luck from High Elves? Transformation due to wielding or delving too deeply into magics is the entire story arc behind the Elves of Warcraft.

What this has to do with anything? I am still waiting for your sources how new void elves are created, not you headcanoning.

[Darththeo]

It's piss poor in your mind, because it's not what you wanted to hear. It's music to my ears.

Projection. Non-sequitor. Just because you want to hear it doesn't mean it isn't piss poor.

Looks like we just have a difference of opinion. Honestly? It's a perfectly fine answer. Blizzard has been spammed and berated for over a decade about this race. They're no doubt tired of hearing the whining and complaining. They gave the race to the Horde for legitimate lore reasons and you special Alliance people can't accept it, or play Horde. It is everything to do with authority. They're telling you you can't have it, and you're still stomping your foot like a child.

I am Horde, not Alliance. And their "legitimate" lore reasons are ignore for other races. It can't be "legitimate" if they ignore it for other races.

Either way, it isn't bullshit to me. Campaigning for a race the other faction has (well after it has been established as a Horde race) is bullshit, to me. Matter of perspective.

I am beginning to think you don't understand what the term bullshit means.

[Deleted]

Would be cool if they made WoW a democracy.. :P

Let us vote for the things..! What do you want people!

Hell no. The playerbase has shown time and time again this wouldn't work.

[Shinkishi]

Nah my logic is fine actually.

"Think what you like" has a meaning to it, you know lol

To be honest, I don't think you remember the context of what we were talking about before and just felt defensive. Your original logic was nonsense, not what you want to revise it to now. Of course, you're invited to think what you like as well.

[Darththeo]

Pandaren was a foot in the water, Void Elves and Nightborne were as far as they were willing to go to appease High Elf fans at the time.



This quote plainly explains what they were trying to do with Void Elves. Nightborne are just their Horde counterpart for the sake of keeping things fair. A failed experiment and a compromise after 11 years of complaints (which failed to solve the problem it was supposed to address) is hardly grounds for a paradigm shift.




They haven't said that in the same way that they say "anything can happen in the future." They're just avoiding making absolute claims, because maybe they want to change the way they make the game in the future. The important part is and always has been the question of why. As long as they have the values they do now, it's not going to happen.

You seem to keep changing the argument to focus on something else other than the point which is their reasons are bullshit. They are welcome to their reasons, but it doesn't seem that their "values" have any real meaning other than what they choose to do arbitrarily apply whenever they feel like it.

[Deleted]

Well then imo they should make it f2p..

[Enkrypt]

He really needed that pat on the back, without you, he would PM me by now on why is he in denial about his happiness.

LOL. Dude, at least I don't pat myself on the back. You're really starting to exhibit how sad and evasive you are. You refuse to even say anything of substance.

You're worthy of the ignore button.

[Deleted]

You honestly think Ion would go on a live stream without being briefed. And even if by some impossible chance he wasn't, you'd think he'd be unaware about a annoyingly loud issue that has gone on for a decade across ALL fucking forums concerning WoW. Come on...

Briefed? He is a game director, he shouldn't be briefed about one of the biggest debates in the community for the last half a year before doing a Q&A. And he surely was aware about how big the issue was, and his reluctance to answer the question and a seeming apology at the end clearly indicated that. What his answer also clearly indicated is that Ion didn't actually know what that issue contained beyond "many people want High Elves".

[Darththeo]

If Pandaren was just the start, the Nightborne would have been the perfect candidate for the second neutral race. But Blizzard didn’t take that route.
The Nightborne/Void Elf swap, you do have a point that faction identity is diminished by these races, but at least they dont outright destroy it.
Obviously Blizzard never says things aren’t happening ever again out loud. No developer does that. But you can tell they are no longer interested in diminishing faction identity any further.

Honestly, faction identity starting going out the window in Burning Crusade. Hell, Blizzard had chances to make to make Blood Elves a neutral race and chose not to. It has been diminished as far as would be required to allow High Elves on the Alliance ... Blizzard doesn't wish to accept that truth of their creation. And yes, creators can be wrong about their creation.

[Deleted]

Think whatever you like, it's still a meaningless prospect lmao
Which they do. I didn't say that Ornyx wasn't doing that. I was saying that making it known to the pro-helfers and adding emojis and shit is pure placation. After Ornyx did it, tons of them rejoiced, thinking it meant something. They even took Talesins video as a step forward, and they don't even work for Blizzard.

And I am saying that not reading feedback about one of the biggest issues for the last month is bad no matter what the issue is. And Ornyx might have collected the feedback but it certainly didn't reach Ion, most likely because Ion wasn't interested in it because he already made up his mind. Which is fine but not an excuse to ignore said feedback.

[Goldielocks]

To be honest, I don't think you remember the context of what we were talking about before and just felt defensive. Your original logic was nonsense, not what you want to revise it to now. Of course, you're invited to think what you like as well.

This is what I replied to, then said, and then what you first responded with:

Yeeah suure when blizz said

No horde and alliance on pvp realms

No classic/vanilla servers

No wellll ALOT of thingsn when a company has a history of changing their mind their isn't much stopping this kind of threadd/discussion

Except all of the examples you mentioned have no downsides aside from damaging Dev pride. That’s why they didn’t exist until now. More than anything the devs have gotten over their pouting, which is why Classic servers are becoming a reality.

Blurring the line between factions damages the game itself. It’s reality and it’s a reality the devs agree with, so no matter how much you disagree, your opinion is worthless in comparison to theirs.

Those things were discussed to death, much harder than High Elves were or likely will be. Horde/Alliance on the same server was a huge thing and the detractors had the same argument about it blurring the line between factions. Classic servers damaging the game itself was one of the biggest points for those against it. Another one was Alliance getting Shaman and Horde getting Paladin. Maybe you weren't there or just didn't participate in them? The same argument you're making now about "dev pride" would be exactly the same if they decided to do a 180 on the elf question.

I still fail to see your point here. I mentioned that Dev pride was the reason why they never did these things, and then eventually got over it. You mentioned that blurring the line would occur there, and I said that it wasn't actually the same eventually in some reply. The argument was being used incorrectly.

Still don't follow ya.

And I am saying that not reading feedback about one of the biggest issues for the last month is bad no matter what the issue is. And Ornyx might have collected the feedback but it certainly didn't reach Ion, most likely because Ion wasn't interested in it because he already made up his mind. Which is fine but not an excuse to ignore said feedback.

You're making feedback out to be more important than it actually is. Just because Ion would see that a group of people want high elves, that means he'll change his own POV and give in?

No.

[Deleted]

You're making feedback out to be more important than it actually is. Just because Ion would see that a group of people want high elves, that means he'll change his own POV and give in?

No.

No, what it means is that Ion should read what these people want (or this information provided to him) as a useful information to know for the future at least. Again, I am NOT saying that Ion has to give in to everything he reads, and I've already said so to you in my previous post, so please follow. I am saying that he should read it in the first place, no matter if he gives in or not.

[Shinkishi]

This is what I replied to, then said, and then what you first responded with:


I still fail to see your point here. I mentioned that Dev pride was the reason why they never did these things, and then eventually got over it. You mentioned that blurring the line would occur there, and I said that it wasn't actually the same eventually in some reply. The argument was being used incorrectly.

Still don't follow ya.

I mentioned that it was the people against those things whose arguments were that it would blur the line or damage the game, not that it was mine. The reason your argument was bad is because the same justification would be brought out if the devs decide to reverse this one. The arguments weren't made over pride at the time, they had a different vision and idea. That's what I was saying.

[Enkrypt]

Hey, I AM A HORDE PLAYER (I only have 2 alliance toons I play vs 12 Horde). I am not arguing Pro-Helf Alliance ... I am arguing that the reason for Blizzard to not allow it is bullshit. I am fine with Blizzard not allowing it, but I would like their reason to be better than "too bad. We don't want to."

If their reason was, "Too bad, we don't want to." I'd agree with you. Fortunately, this was not the reason they provided. Ion articulately and adequately described why they won't be adding them in the foreseeable future. I don't care if you play Horde or Alliance or Final Fantasy. You've chosen to believe that their reason isn't good enough for you, nothing more. It's perfectly fine for those of us that understand logic, authority, and business.

It was never a possibility that the Alliance would see a race identical to a Horde race. Pandaren isn't a precedent. Pandaren were added to both factions simultaneously, and Blizzard subsequently expressed regret about that implementation. Therefore, adding Blood Elves to the Alliance at this point would not be the same thing. Horde has had them since TBC for over a decade now. Honestly, their answer was perfectly fine. I suppose it takes an above average IQ to realize that Void Elves are what the Alliance are going to get. If you, or any of these posters, deluded themselves to the point where they can't see that as both a business model and a resolution to the screeching, you're really not as bright as you may have yourself convinced.

The model belongs to the Horde. It will remain that way, thank goodness. And if there's something wrong with taking pride in keeping what belongs to us, I'm okay with being wrong. You guys should practice caution when you wish for something. Because you got exactly what you deserve.

And honestly dude, if you think the word "bullshit" has some defined meaning that isn't subjective to your feelings, I don't feel like you're on the same level as me. You actually sit here and pretend that calling their reason is bullshit isn't just your opinion? Yikes, you have deeper seated issues. Maybe you should start playing the Alliance more heavily, I hear they need faction balance and you'd fit right in.