1. #3121
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You seem to keep changing the argument to focus on something else other than the point which is their reasons are bullshit. They are welcome to their reasons, but it doesn't seem that their "values" have any real meaning other than what they choose to do arbitrarily apply whenever they feel like it.
    I'm not changing the argument at all. I'm talking about the same thing I have been since I first posted in a high elf thread: faction identity. You may not feel that has any meaning, but I disagree, and I believe Blizzard shares my view on the topic. I will do my best to explain why.

    ---

    Pandaren were added as an experiment, to see if neutral races could work. Their lore and character was built up to support their neutrality, but Blizzard were still unhappy with the results. Pandaren remain the only race truly shared by Horde and Alliance.

    The only other example where the faction distinction ideal is compromised is with the addition of Void Elves and Nightborne. As Ion explained in the Q&A, they wanted to give something that "felt like a Blood Elf, but had a flavor unique to the Alliance." The only reasonable way to interpret that is that they were trying to give a compromise to Alliance high elf fans, but also wanted to maintain the integrity of the faction divide.

    You claim that they apply that standard arbitrarily, but there's a clear logical progression here. They tried it once and didn't like it, but felt that it was worth compromising, to a limited extent, for the sake of High Elf fans. After we saw the reception of the Void Elf compromise, Blizzard had two options: give up on pleasing High Elf fans, or give up on maintaining faction identity. Ion's answer to that dilemma was very clear in the Q&A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Ghostcrawler, not Blizzard.
    If it's just Ghostcrawler's opinion, why does he provide justification for going against that ideal in terms of we?
    Last edited by protip; 2018-04-27 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #3122
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    If it is, report the post.

    Not in the case of logic, bullshit is pretty well define. I am fine with Blizzard not giving High Elves to the Alliance, I don't care if they do or don't. I just feel those that do deserve a better explanation than the unsound argument Blizzard has put forth. Funny, you claimed you understand sound reasoning, but seem to confuse it with valid.
    Suuure, I bet you don't care at all. You're too cool to care, right? That's why you're here defending such horrid injustice to those poor players?

    Yeah, you don't care one iota.

    It was a perfectly valid reason. I guess you're just so narcissistic that you're shocked someone wouldn't just bow down and agree with you. News flash, your opinion is bullshit. See what I did there?

    Faction identity =/= bullshit. You can keep denying that until you're blue in the face, and I'll just keep pointing and laughing.

  3. #3123
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    I'm not changing the argument at all. I'm talking about the same thing I have been since I first posted in a high elf thread: faction identity. You may not feel that has any meaning, but I disagree, and I believe Blizzard shares my view on the topic. I will do my best to explain why.

    ---

    Pandaren were added as an experiment, to see if neutral races could work. Their lore and character was built up to support their neutrality, but Blizzard were still unhappy with the results. Pandaren remain the only race truly shared by Horde and Alliance.

    The only other example where the faction distinction ideal is compromised is with the addition of Void Elves and Nightborne. As Ion explained in the Q&A, they wanted to give something that "felt like a Blood Elf, but had a flavor unique to the Alliance." The only reasonable way to interpret that is that they were trying to give a compromise to Alliance high elf fans, but also wanted to maintain the integrity of the faction divide.

    You claim that they apply that standard arbitrarily, but there's a clear logical progression here. They tried it once and didn't like it, but felt that it was worth compromising, to a limited extent, for the sake of High Elf fans. After we saw the reception of the Void Elf compromise, Blizzard had two options: give up on pleasing High Elf fans, or give up on maintaining faction identity. Ion's answer to that dilemma was very clear in the Q&A.
    Faction identity has been going downhill since BC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    Suuure, I bet you don't care at all. You're too cool to care, right? That's why you're here defending such horrid injustice to those poor players?

    Yeah, you don't care one iota.

    It was a perfectly valid reason. I guess you're just so narcissistic that you're shocked someone wouldn't just bow down and agree with you. News flash, your opinion is bullshit. See what I did there?
    Valid doesn't mean sound. Valid means their argument follows if true, not is true. Again, I am arguing against Blizzard giving players bullshit reasons.

    Yes, they have a valid reason, doesn't change the fact it is bullshit.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  4. #3124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No, it's great to accept this type of callousness because it means the devs are resistant to doing dumb shit just to cater to a screeching minority.
    GOOD PR IS WEAKNESS! Aurghhh. Lol my dude.

  5. #3125
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Right, so what are the HE's and BE's doing in the rift? Gonna assume you'll go with the easy answer that others provided and say 'studying'. Right, just as I'm sure that drug addicts go to their dealers for factoids on drugs.



    Nor did the Felblood or the Wretched. Which neither of those schools of magic are as corruptive as the Void. If you still are not seeing this, then no further discussion is needed.
    I am asking for the fourth time, how are new void elves created? Who is recreating this transformation? Do they need to interrupt it or did they find a new way to do the transformation without interrupting it?

    They cant just suck void and become void elves.. Alleria sucked void and she has appearance of regular highelf, not blueberry elf, so the transformation is responsible for their looks, not just sucking the void.

  6. #3126
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Funny, you claimed you understand sound reasoning, but seem to confuse it with valid.
    You really need to make up your mind. In one post you condemn me for confusing their perfectly good, non-bullshit reason as valid.

    In the next post you say it is valid.

    Tell me, Mr. I Don't Care, which is it? Pick a plan and stick to it.

    Their reason is perfectly sound. Perfectly valid. Perfectly satisfying. It's just that you disagree, and you're trying to convince me that your opinion is a matter of fact. Which that, sir, is complete bullshit.

    *yawn* This is getting boring. For someone who is as articulate as you, you'd think you'd understand a difference of opinion. I guess that's expecting too much from you, Theo? I mean, you don't care, right? So why put up such a fiercely false wall of words for something you don't care about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    I am asking for the fourth time...
    I asked you like four times to explain what I'm in denial about. Reap what you sow.
    Last edited by Enkrypt; 2018-04-27 at 10:04 PM.

  7. #3127
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    You really need to make up your mind. In one post you condemn me for confusing their perfectly good, non-bullshit reason as valid.

    In the next post you say it is valid.

    Tell me, Mr. I Don't Care, which is it? Pick a plan and stick to it.

    Their reason is perfectly sound. Perfectly valid. Perfectly satisfying. It's just that you disagree, and you're trying to convince me that your opinion is a matter of fact. Which that, sir, is complete bullshit.

    *yawn* This is getting boring. For someone who is as articulate as you, you'd think you'd understand a difference of opinion. I guess that's expecting too much from you, Theo? I mean, you don't care, right? So why put up such a fiercely false wall of words for something you don't care about?
    I am saying their argument is valid (which only means True if the parts are true). Just because something is valid doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.

    All snarks are blue.
    This is a snark.
    Therefor, it is blue.

    Perfectly valid but still total bullshit.

    Again, you understand logic? I accept their argument ... I have never claimed I don't ... I find their argument to be bullshit. You confuse the acceptance of an argument as valid with soundness. (Saying an argument is valid and sound is redundant btw)

    I have point out why it isn't sound because faction identity isn't really a thing, ergo using it as evidence makes the argument not sound. Whether Pandaren was a mistake or not is irrelevant. Whether you believe Velf and Nightborne are as far as they'll go is equally irrelevant. Their actions are contrary to their words.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-04-27 at 09:59 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #3128

    Horde

    Quite impressive this forum still exist after yesterday debacle of High Elves society .Just stop,at this point arguing is completly waist of time.Because High Elves coming in game as playable is not possible anymore.Play horde
    Last edited by Sign; 2018-04-27 at 10:05 PM.
    Blood Elves are basically High Elves. Slightly different eye color and backstory, but if you want to be a light skinned elf, that is basically a Blood Elf. Giving that to the Alliance would blur the line between factions.
    There aren't a ton of High Elves out there in WoW.
    If you are Alliance and want to be an elf, the Horde is there for you.
    -Ion Hazzikostas: Game Director for World of Warcraft

  9. #3129
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    I asked you like four times to explain what I'm in denial about. Reap what you sow.
    And i answered it to you one time directly and one time through your friend who patted you on the back.. You should find out by now with your superior intellect..It surprises me, you talk about thick skulls and basic levels of thinking, yet you cant find the obvious.
    Last edited by mmoc09bcb5d61f; 2018-04-27 at 10:06 PM.

  10. #3130
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am saying their argument is valid (which only means True if the parts are true). Just because something is valid doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.

    All snarks are blue.
    This is a snark.
    Therefor, it is blue.

    Perfectly valid but still total bullshit.

    Again, you understand logic? I accept their argument ... I have never claimed I don't ... I find their argument to be bullshit. You confuse the acceptance of an argument as valid with soundness. (Saying an argument is valid and sound is redundant btw)

    I have point out why it isn't sound because faction identity isn't really a thing, ergo using it as evidence makes the argument not sound. Whether Pandaren was a mistake or not is irrelevant. Whether you believe Velf and Nightborne are as far as they'll go is equally irrelevant. Their actions are contrary to their words.
    Fine. Agree to disagree.

    Just because it's bullshit to you, doesn't mean it's bullshit to me. That isn't projection. It makes perfectly good sense to me.

    I'm done arguing semantics with you.

  11. #3131
    Quote Originally Posted by Benomatic View Post
    Nope.

    I want to play a race within the faction.
    That's not available. So you either play another race or just leave the game. You asked the devs and they said no. That's the end of it.
    Wanna vote for High Elves? Leave the game, and come back if they put them as a playable race... I mean, if it's that big a deal to you.
    Simple as that, tbh. This dragging and living in denial, undermining the word of the devs (you know, people who create this whole game) and sticking to wild theories shows how much entitlement people feel with this game in particular.

  12. #3132
    lets see if this shoe fits on the other foot.

    If you don't want to be railroaded into being an evil faction. The Alliance is there for you.

  13. #3133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    Fine. Agree to disagree.

    Just because it's bullshit to you, doesn't mean it's bullshit to me. That isn't projection. It makes perfectly good sense to me.

    I'm done arguing semantics with you.
    And you have shown you don't understand logic ... so yes.

    Also, we never argued semantics ... well maybe you were, but I wasn't.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #3134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    I'm pretty sure changing my quote to suit your narrative is worthy of an infraction. Have fun with that.

    Your desperation is quite amusing. Have you heard of the High Elf Discord channel? Your kinfolk would be pleased to have you.

    Also, bullshit remains subjective. Just because you think it's bullshit doesn't mean we all subscribe to your basic level of thinking. I guess your skull is too thick to understand simple opinion-based matters. Just bounces right off, huh? What a shame.
    Why are you actually in a thread about high elves only to post pictures and videos to bash on people opposing your view? And then you talk about him being worthy of an infraction, which isn't at all since he wrote it's a 'correction' (obviously making a point he added it himself)? Just take a step back and look at your attitude here.

    I didn't actually get the point of Ion denying the idea because the models would look the same. Who would be disturbed by that?

    People playing in PvP? I doubt it.
    Damaging your immersion as a RP player? Doubt it again, actually I can see very cool new scenarios to RP, if they would actually make it possible that BE and High Elf players understand eachother they could set up some scenarios where they attack/bait eachother or discuss stuff and so on.
    PvE? You only see your own faction.

    What's the problem in that?

  15. #3135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And they stated they regret it. Their opinion is clear - They do not like the idea of Neutral races, and will avoid that possibility in the future.

    Blood Elf and High Elf would be pretty much that - A Neutral race. Which they don't like.
    Blood Elf and Void Elf are literally the same race - A Neutral Race ... which they don't like.
    Nightborne and Night Elf are literally the same race - A Neutral Race ... which they don't like.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #3136
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And you have shown you don't understand logic ... so yes.

    Also, we never argued semantics ... well maybe you were, but I wasn't.
    Heh, I once argued with him and in every single post in that argument he was completely missing what I was saying and argued about something else. I see that was not a one-time thing.

  17. #3137
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Why are you actually in a thread about high elves only to post pictures and videos to bash on people opposing your view? And then you talk about him being worthy of an infraction, which isn't at all since he wrote it's a 'correction' (obviously making a point he added it himself)? Just take a step back and look at your attitude here.
    I tried,but he thinks he is happy and satisfied person. I really tried to tell him, but i think he lives in denial. He no longer knows what is happiness and he is just living from misery of others. I hope this answers all his questions, but again, he said something about thick skulls, so i dont know if he gets the message.

  18. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post
    lets see if this shoe fits on the other foot.

    If you don't want to be railroaded into being an evil faction. The Alliance is there for you.
    Of course it wouldn't work.

    Horde gets to have their cake and eat it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Humans Paladins don't have "a lot of lore" behind them.

  19. #3139
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    I didn't actually get the point of Ion denying the idea because the models would look the same. Who would be disturbed by that?
    Me, for one. The foundation of the game is the idea that the two factions are different. What makes them different is the races that make up each faction. Each race has a specific fantasy and appearance. If you create a races that are too similar cross faction, you undermine the differences between the factions and thus the foundation of the game. The exclusivity of races between the Alliance and the Horde is what make the two factions feel different, and makes that choice meaningful. High Elves being playable for the Alliance not only fails to add complexity to that faction distinction, but even harms it by reducing an existing unique playable race, the Blood Elves, to a neutral one.

  20. #3140
    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    Me, for one. The foundation of the game is the idea that the two factions are different. What makes them different is the races that make up each faction. Each race has a specific fantasy and appearance. If you create a races that are too similar cross faction, you undermine the differences between the factions and thus the foundation of the game. The exclusivity of races between the Alliance and the Horde is what make the two factions feel different, and makes that choice meaningful. High Elves being playable for the Alliance not only fails to add complexity to that faction distinction, but even harms it by reducing an existing unique playable race, the Blood Elves, to a neutral one.
    Wasted time. These people don't care about damage. They want pretty blonde belfs in blue. They don't care if it utterly destroys the game.

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