1. #3241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koroniss View Post
    Which was precisely the intent.
    I might have been but it made your post illogical.


    Quote Originally Posted by Koroniss View Post
    You might consider developing your own title then. As a third party product will always deviate from your exact criteria.
    As a potential customer, I can provide information what I want to see in the product in order to buy it, especially if I see that what I want can easily be implemented without any issues in the product. About developing my own title, let's be honest, this is simply you trying to troll while pretending to look smart, so I won't really answer to you any further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    High Elves are already in the game. In fact you have two options for High Elves since both Blood Elves and Void Elves ARE High Elves, as confirmed by Ion.
    Never argued that they aren't in the game, they just aren't playable.

  2. #3242
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Can you expand on this? I'm not quite sure I get it, this seems like new info. You're saying...Blood Elves and Void Elves are in fact High Elves? So he can actually play what he's asking for? And you're not deliberately missing the entire point of the request? I think we need to go through this a bit more to really understand it.
    What is confusing about this?

    Prince Kael'thas renamed his people, but they are still "ethnic" High Elves. And strictly speaking, High Elves don't really exist anymore. Prince Kael'thas' proclamation came long before the Horde took them in. Remember that Prince Kael was in fact the Sun King, and actual Lord over his people. All surviving peoples of the sin'dorei are Blood Elves. There are no more High Elves.

    Those that refuse to take the mantle can do so all they want, but the motivations behind entities like the Silver Covenant are just political and a vast minority.

  3. #3243
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    What is confusing about this?

    Prince Kael'thas renamed his people, but they are still "ethnic" High Elves. And strictly speaking, High Elves don't really exist anymore. Prince Kael'thas' proclamation came long before the Horde took them in. Remember that Prince Kael was in fact the Sun King, and actual Lord over his people. All surviving peoples of the sin'dorei are Blood Elves. There are no more High Elves.

    Those that refuse to take the mantle can do so all they want, but the motivations behind entities like the Silver Covenant are just political and a vast minority.
    Sorry buddy, it was a joke since this thread has gone through the exact same argument countless times. The High Elves people are talking about wanting are the Silver Covenant/Alleria High Elves. Saying that "Blood Elves or Void Elves are High Elves" is missing the point behind the request and goes nowhere, whether you think it's possible or not.

  4. #3244
    World of Elfcraft just isn't appealing. I'm leveling a HM Tauren right now for that sweet armor set, mostly via dungeons. And it is already Elves everywhere.
    If they would've add 5 types of different Gnomes shared by both faction, then it would be less of a problem. They would still be underplayed.
    That's the deal breaker for me. Just too many Elves.

  5. #3245
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    What is confusing about this?

    Prince Kael'thas renamed his people, but they are still "ethnic" High Elves. And strictly speaking, High Elves don't really exist anymore. Prince Kael'thas' proclamation came long before the Horde took them in. Remember that Prince Kael was in fact the Sun King, and actual Lord over his people. All surviving peoples of the sin'dorei are Blood Elves. There are no more High Elves.

    Those that refuse to take the mantle can do so all they want, but the motivations behind entities like the Silver Covenant are just political and a vast minority.
    To add more context, the High vs Blood Elf argument is comparable to Stormwind Humans vs the Defias Brotherhood. They are essentially the same race, but they are at odds against each other. So ultimately, giving High Elves to the Alliance is really no different to giving the Defias Brotherhood to the Horde.

    Do they make sense? Yes. The Silver Covenant High Elves are at odds with the Horde, and the Defias Brotherhood is at odds with the Alliance.
    Do people want to play it? Well for High Elves, duh, but I'm not sure if Horde players want Humans on their faction.
    But will Blizz do it? No.

    Blizz explicitly set up High Elf Wayfarers and Silvermoon Scholars in the Telogros Rift for this exact reason. Void Elves are their way of homogenizing any possible cultural divide into one unique culture for the Alliance.

    Last edited by Syferite; 2018-04-28 at 01:45 PM.

  6. #3246
    As a side note, I wonder what will be the Alliance counterpart if the San'layn do become a new Horde Allied Race. There was this rumour going around that a Blood Prince named Dreven would ally himself with Gallywix and the Horde, and the San'layn would be recruited into the Horde as an Allied Race. Some thought that the Alliance counterpart would be High Elves, since the developers have always strived to even the number of Elven races across the two factions, but now it is uncertain. I personally wouldn't mind playable San'layn on the Horde side since I am very edgy and I am quite fond of vampires.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  7. #3247
    Quote Originally Posted by Ddi View Post
    I might have been but it made your post illogical.
    Did it? I guess I should reformat the post. It's good thing we don't operate the same way machines do, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddi View Post

    As a potential customer, I can provide information what I want to see in the product in order to buy it, especially if I see that what I want can easily be implemented without any issues in the product.
    You did. They answered. That's not to mean they won't change their product availability at some certain future point. But there is absolutely no logic to stand there and provide that same request over and over again at the very moment they told you they don't have it in stock, and they won't have it in the foreseeable future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddi View Post
    About developing my own title, let's be honest, this is simply you trying to troll while pretending to look smart, so I won't really answer to you any further.
    Nope. Let's be honest, that's simply how you took it because it is something that you don't like to hear.

    As for the trolling and pretending part, it's funny. Are we really going that way? I've been pro "High Elves for the Alliance" for as long as one could have been, and as much as I could reasonably be, yet I feel how if I have to deal with such attitude on a frequent basis I could very well eventually be pushed into the hardcore anti camp. Which would be quite the feat, given my personal background and preferences.

    Given how I don't want to be turned into a person I wouldn't like seing myself turned into, it seems I will actually have to rescind my previous statement about considering more active participation in this domain.

  8. #3248
    Quote Originally Posted by Syferite View Post
    To add more context, the High vs Blood Elf argument is comparable to Stormwind Humans vs the Defias Brotherhood. They are essentially the same race, but they are at odds against each other. So ultimately, giving High Elves to the Alliance is really no different to giving the Defias Brotherhood to the Horde.

    Do they make sense? Yes. The Silver Covenant High Elves are at odds with the Horde, and the Defias Brotherhood is at odds with the Alliance.

    just one flaw in that logic. Silver Coventant attack horde and not alliance players. Defias Brotherhood Humans Attack both. also the Defias brotherhood consists of more than just humans. ogres murlocs Goblins Gnolls. and a Grimtotem tauren at one point.

  9. #3249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baerong View Post
    World of Elfcraft just isn't appealing. I'm leveling a HM Tauren right now for that sweet armor set, mostly via dungeons. And it is already Elves everywhere.
    If they would've add 5 types of different Gnomes shared by both faction, then it would be less of a problem. They would still be underplayed.
    That's the deal breaker for me. Just too many Elves.
    I've noticed this as a problem too while levelling alts since.. forever. Even before adding two more elves, it was already majority of elves in dungeon groups. While I'm a fan of elves otherwise, the only elves I actually find remotely interesting or nice to look at are Night Elves and Nightborne. Another addition of Belf model with different minor traits, in my opinion, would just be too much. I thought this game was "Warcraft", not "Elfcraft". Enough is enough. I get it that people want to be elves, it's their fantasy about an MMO like this. But you people are not the only ones playing this game. I get that you guys love elves, but you already have a lot to pick from.

    In the end I don't really care if they bring them or not, I'm not the one to play one anyway. Just wanted to add my opinion about the matter. I'm not going to be upset if they ever change their minds and add them. Good for you guys. But I'm also not going to be upset if they don't.

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  10. #3250
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    As a side note, I wonder what will be the Alliance counterpart if the San'layn do become a new Horde Allied Race. There was this rumour going around that a Blood Prince named Dreven would ally himself with Gallywix and the Horde, and the San'layn would be recruited into the Horde as an Allied Race. Some thought that the Alliance counterpart would be High Elves, since the developers have always strived to even the number of Elven races across the two factions, but now it is uncertain. I personally wouldn't mind playable San'layn on the Horde side since I am very edgy and I am quite fond of vampires.
    Would it be better to just give the Forsaken additional customization? So you can lump in Undead Elves (to get the Dark Rangers/San'layn aesthetic), and the Nathanas model (but that would probably open up another series of conflict :/).

    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post
    just one flaw in that logic. Silver Coventant attack horde and not alliance players. Defias Brotherhood Humans Attack both. also the Defias brotherhood consists of more than just humans. ogres murlocs Goblins Gnolls. and a Grimtotem tauren at one point.
    No doubt that's a flaw, but I believe that's Blizzard's thought process atm.

  11. #3251
    Would it be better to just give the Forsaken additional customization? So you can lump in Undead Elves (to get the Dark Rangers/San'layn aesthetic), and the Nathanas model (but that would probably open up another series of conflict :/).
    But it would make more sense if the San'layn used the Thalassian model instead of the rotting Forsaken one.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  12. #3252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koroniss View Post
    You did. They answered. That's not to mean they won't change their product availability at some certain future point. But there is absolutely no logic to stand there and provide that same request over and over again at the very moment they told you they don't have it in stock, and they won't have it in the foreseeable future.
    You can look back at my posts and you'll see I am not requesting them now. In fact, if you actually do it, you'll find me claiming that High Elves would only be added as a tool to keep WoW alive when the number of subs will be in critical condition. So you are telling that High Elves won't be added now or soon to a wrong person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koroniss View Post
    Nope. Let's be honest, that's simply how you took it because it is something that you don't like to hear.

    As for the trolling and pretending part, it's funny. Are we really going that way? I've been pro "High Elves for the Alliance" for as long as one could have been, and as much as I could reasonably be, yet I feel how if I have to deal with such attitude on a frequent basis I could very well eventually be pushed into the hardcore anti camp. Which would be quite the feat, given my personal background and preferences.

    Given how I don't want to be turned into a person I wouldn't like seing myself turned into, it seems I will actually have to rescind my previous statement about considering more active participation in this domain.
    Look, I don't care about your background and about your stance about High Elves. You've just said to me to create my own game if I don't like WoW. That's akin to saying "manufacture your own car if you don't like this one" or "build your own house if you don't want to live in this one". This is extremely ridiculous advice and one would say it only in 2 conditions: a person is not thinking what he is writing or he is trolling. I gave you a benefit of the doubt and assumed that you was trolling, but if you weren't, then congratulations, your advice was extremely dumb.

  13. #3253
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syferite View Post
    Would it be better to just give the Forsaken additional customization? So you can lump in Undead Elves (to get the Dark Rangers/San'layn aesthetic), and the Nathanas model (but that would probably open up another series of conflict :/).
    I really think Nathanos style Undead is way too big of an ask of Blizzard no matter how it could be done.

    Now you could make the argument that a Nathanos style Undead is like a Void Elf, a recoloured and rethemed version of an existing race, but it's the Human model used to portray a Human race (albeit a dead one).

    The Humans are the absolute core of the Alliance, I find the idea of having access to the model on a Human type race to be just as bad as High Elves, a breach of the faction wall and an undermining of the faction integrity of the Alliance.

    I really don't think we should ask for it. We should respect the lore regarding Nathanos, that it was a one off procedure insanely difficult to replicate which was done because of his unique status in the lore.

    If people want to play a Human model...the Alliance is there waiting for you.

    Otherwise they should be content with the shambling and decaying Forsaken model we know and love BECAUSE it is a shambling and decaying model...that's the zombie fantasy.

  14. #3254
    Quote Originally Posted by Diezel View Post
    Lore-wise, Blizz have got themselves in quite the tricky situation, with High Elves and Allied Races.

    Their NPC's show up consistently throughout Alliance campaigns ever since Vanilla. They were a staunch ally of Stormwind during times when Dark Irons were enemies and Gilneas was nowhere to be found.

    And then, Blizz has made some very messy precedents, with races like Highmountain Tauren, Lightforged Draenei and maybe Mag'har Orcs and Nighborne, who barely look any different. Hell, they even got Pandaren, working just fine for both, the situation they dug themselves into will be tricky to weasel out of.


    But the "Blood Elf is High Elf" might have well been a bit of a hint of things to come, which could also get Blizz out of this sticky situation without putting High Elves in the Alliance:
    Silver Covenant makes up the bulk of High Elves that work against Silvermoon right now, however, that is mostly from Vereesa's wishes. Now, if some Horde plot were to be made, to remove Vereesa from Silver Covenant leadership, and replace her with somebody who has greater... Silvermoon sympathies, that High Elf could co-opt the entire Silver Covenant into the Horde, without Vereesa's angst and grief stopping them from returning back to their homes. Only Alleria's Void Elves would remain with the Alliance, in that situation, with perhaps a few individual High Elf characters.
    This would effectively make High Elf into a cosmetic option for Blood Elf eyes, at the very least, and would solve the High Elf Allied Race crisis.

    Not that they couldn't simply add them as an Allied Race for later, when the hype is needed, with the precedents Blizz has made so far, everything goes, really, and the silly crisis would also be solved either way!
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  15. #3255
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I really think Nathanos style Undead is way too big of an ask of Blizzard no matter how it could be done.

    Now you could make the argument that a Nathanos style Undead is like a Void Elf, a recoloured and rethemed version of an existing race, but it's the Human model used to portray a Human race (albeit a dead one).

    The Humans are the absolute core of the Alliance, I find the idea of having access to the model on a Human type race to be just as bad as High Elves, a breach of the faction wall and an undermining of the faction integrity of the Alliance.

    I really don't think we should ask for it. We should respect the lore regarding Nathanos, that it was a one off procedure insanely difficult to replicate which was done because of his unique status in the lore.

    If people want to play a Human model...the Alliance is there waiting for you.

    Otherwise they should be content with the shambling and decaying Forsaken model we know and love BECAUSE it is a shambling and decaying model...that's the zombie fantasy.
    One switch was enough. Blizz caved in and gave the Alliance the belf model which they REALLY wanted and gave the Horde the Nelf model... which not many wanted, in fact I can't think of someone asking for it, but it had a cool background and story to it so it was well received. But that's where it needs to stop.

    We want more undead versions, well the elf model is the best choice. I know some people want to play the vampire elves and some want the dark rangers so there's that. Plus there's no need for model switching.

  16. #3256
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniri View Post
    Afrasiabi is the creative director.
    Wait...Isn't it Afrasiabi who should decide if High elves get added then? And not Ion?

  17. #3257
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    One switch was enough. Blizz caved in and gave the Alliance the belf model which they REALLY wanted and gave the Horde the Nelf model... which not many wanted, in fact I can't think of someone asking for it, but it had a cool background and story to it so it was well received. But that's where it needs to stop.

    We want more undead versions, well the elf model is the best choice. I know some people want to play the vampire elves and some want the dark rangers so there's that. Plus there's no need for model switching.
    Well I don't think model switching is the problem per se.

    Take Vulpera. Vulpera are clearly based on the Goblin model. IF Vulpera were to become Alliance, would that upset me?

    The answer is no. Even though the basic model is Horde, it has been repurposed on a completely different race and does not impact the Goblins at all.

    The problem with a Nathanos style Undead is that it is the Human model being used to portray a Human. That in my mind is a clear breach of the faction wall.

    However if they took the Human model, ripped the head off it, stuck an Arrakoa head on instead, retextured the whole thing and said 'these are the new Arrakoa models for the Horde', I wouldn't have a problem.

    The thin Kul Tiran, based on the female Forsaken model, is the best example of this approach. It is NOT a breach of the faction wall.

  18. #3258
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Wait...Isn't it Afrasiabi who should decide if High elves get added then? And not Ion?
    No. Ion is the Game Director, who oversees everything, thus he has the final say on all matters related to the game.
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  19. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Well I don't think model switching is the problem per se.

    Take Vulpera. Vulpera are clearly based on the Goblin model. IF Vulpera were to become Alliance, would that upset me?

    The answer is no. Even though the basic model is Horde, it has been repurposed on a completely different race and does not impact the Goblins at all.

    The problem with a Nathanos style Undead is that it is the Human model being used to portray a Human. That in my mind is a clear breach of the faction wall.

    However if they took the Human model, ripped the head off it, stuck an Arrakoa head on instead, retextured the whole thing and said 'these are the new Arrakoa models for the Horde', I wouldn't have a problem.

    The thin Kul Tiran, based on the female Forsaken model, is the best example of this approach. It is NOT a breach of the faction wall.
    People were also willing to have High Elves come using the Human skeleton or Night skeleton approach if using the Blood Elf skeleton/model was the biggest issue. The fact Ion's answer didn't seem to take into consideration, which was known for several months is what I believe led to a lot of people not appreciating the way he answered.

    His answer didn't seem to take the discussion that had been going on for months, it more seemed like an answer to communicating that "high elves need to be in now!" when also the other well known high elf discussion topic said in big bold that I guess people didn't read at all: they understood high elves would come much later after other playable races got their own version of allied races (goblin/worgen/undead/gnomes).

  20. #3260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Wait...Isn't it Afrasiabi who should decide if High elves get added then? And not Ion?
    you rly think it is ion decision alone?

    the wow team sit down and discuss those things, they decide they will not give to the alliance a horde race, without major changes, like void elves

    sure he have the final word,a s game director, but he only pass the news too

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