Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

One switch was enough. Blizz caved in and gave the Alliance the belf model which they REALLY wanted and gave the Horde the Nelf model... which not many wanted, in fact I can't think of someone asking for it, but it had a cool background and story to it so it was well received. But that's where it needs to stop.

We want more undead versions, well the elf model is the best choice. I know some people want to play the vampire elves and some want the dark rangers so there's that. Plus there's no need for model switching.

Well I don't think model switching is the problem per se.

Take Vulpera. Vulpera are clearly based on the Goblin model. IF Vulpera were to become Alliance, would that upset me?

The answer is no. Even though the basic model is Horde, it has been repurposed on a completely different race and does not impact the Goblins at all.

The problem with a Nathanos style Undead is that it is the Human model being used to portray a Human. That in my mind is a clear breach of the faction wall.

However if they took the Human model, ripped the head off it, stuck an Arrakoa head on instead, retextured the whole thing and said 'these are the new Arrakoa models for the Horde', I wouldn't have a problem.

The thin Kul Tiran, based on the female Forsaken model, is the best example of this approach. It is NOT a breach of the faction wall.

[HeyBarbaruiva]

Wait...Isn't it Afrasiabi who should decide if High elves get added then? And not Ion?

No. Ion is the Game Director, who oversees everything, thus he has the final say on all matters related to the game.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well I don't think model switching is the problem per se.

Take Vulpera. Vulpera are clearly based on the Goblin model. IF Vulpera were to become Alliance, would that upset me?

The answer is no. Even though the basic model is Horde, it has been repurposed on a completely different race and does not impact the Goblins at all.

The problem with a Nathanos style Undead is that it is the Human model being used to portray a Human. That in my mind is a clear breach of the faction wall.

However if they took the Human model, ripped the head off it, stuck an Arrakoa head on instead, retextured the whole thing and said 'these are the new Arrakoa models for the Horde', I wouldn't have a problem.

The thin Kul Tiran, based on the female Forsaken model, is the best example of this approach. It is NOT a breach of the faction wall.

People were also willing to have High Elves come using the Human skeleton or Night skeleton approach if using the Blood Elf skeleton/model was the biggest issue. The fact Ion's answer didn't seem to take into consideration, which was known for several months is what I believe led to a lot of people not appreciating the way he answered.

His answer didn't seem to take the discussion that had been going on for months, it more seemed like an answer to communicating that "high elves need to be in now!" when also the other well known high elf discussion topic said in big bold that I guess people didn't read at all: they understood high elves would come much later after other playable races got their own version of allied races (goblin/worgen/undead/gnomes).

[Syegfryed]

Wait...Isn't it Afrasiabi who should decide if High elves get added then? And not Ion?

you rly think it is ion decision alone?

the wow team sit down and discuss those things, they decide they will not give to the alliance a horde race, without major changes, like void elves

sure he have the final word,a s game director, but he only pass the news too

[protip]

People were also willing to have High Elves come using the Human skeleton or Night skeleton approach if using the Blood Elf skeleton/model was the biggest issue. The fact Ion's answer didn't seem to take into consideration, which was known for several months is what I believe led to a lot of people not appreciating the way he answered.

His answer didn't seem to take the discussion that had been going on for months, it more seemed like an answer to communicating that "high elves need to be in now!" when also the other well known high elf discussion topic said in big bold that I guess people didn't read at all: they understood high elves would come much later after other playable races got their own version of allied races (goblin/worgen/undead/gnomes).

You have to consider how Blood Elves fit into that context though. Here's why it doesn't make sense to use the night elf model. If a Blood Elf is just a high elf with green eyes, a high elf can't be anything more different than a Blood Elf without green eyes. It makes the high elf fantasy inconsistent.

The only ways to solve that problem are A) retcon the Blood Elf story, so that they're something other than green-eyed high elves B) force the Alliance high elves to undergo a transformation that makes them visually distinct (Void Elves) or C) give the Alliance access to the most popular Horde model. It's impossible to give people unmodified high elves without causing major problems for the game.

[Varodoc]

There is also the problem that, if High Elves became playable, the numbers of the Void Elves might decrease drastically, and sorry, but as a Void Elf fan, that is just unacceptable. I know several players who created a Void Elf just to play as an Alliance High Elf, and if they actually released High Elves as a playable Alliance Allied Race, Void Elves' numbers might crumble to dust. So effectively the Void Elves would suffer because a few stubborn fanboys can't get over the fact that their favourite organization (yes, because they are asking for an ORGANIZATION) is comprised of a race already playable on both sides.

[FlubberPuddy]

You have to consider how Blood Elves fit into that context though. Here's why it doesn't make sense to use the night elf model. If a Blood Elf is just a high elf with green eyes, a high elf can't be anything more different than a Blood Elf without green eyes. The only ways to solve that problem are A) retcon the Blood Elf story, so that they're something other than green-eyed high elves B) force the Alliance high elves to undergo a transformation that makes them visually distinct (Void Elves), or C) give the Alliance access to the most popular Horde model. It's impossible to give people unmodified high elves without causing major problems for the game.

It definintely doesn't need to be any of your scenarios, nor do High Elves have to stay that way. Kul'Tirans in the game were always portrayed as regular Humans until Blizzard decided to make them an Allied Race and they got a massive overhaul in their looks.

Dark Iron Dwarves existed in the game for many years and they were the same dwarf model just with darker skin with glowy-red eyes. Come Allied Races and they get upgraded to an even more distinct aesthetic like fire-tinged beards/hairs and real flaming eyes as well as actual charcoal colored skin hues.

The focus on keeping the models the same is just brushing Blizzard into a corner. If they can do it for other races then it can happen for High Elves as well. This was the biggest focus for the High Elf discussion, that the main point isn't having a model but being able to play those Alliance High Elves that players have come to know and love in WoW's lifetime.

Let's take it back to that focus: Alliance High Elves are wanted by players because of their story in WoW. The next question would be, how can they be implemented that doesn't step on Blood Elves toes, but still these would be the High Elves in Alliance's presence in WoW that players get to finally play?

If your answer is that "oh that is impossible because they must strictly stick to how they've been portrayed in the game always." Then that's a narrow-minded thinking that doesn't see how Kul'Tirans and Dark Irons fly in the face of.

The focus has been too much on the model, and not enough on the story behind the race, which is what people clamor for when wanting playable Alliance High Elves.

Now I'm not going to go against Blizzard if they want to keep the focus or discussion on models, that's clear as day to see. But it completely misses the point of why players wanted playable High Elves in the first place.

Ion's response doesn't take that into consideration, it is as if all the discussion since Blizzcon hadn't taken place and out of nowhere suddenly a lot asked for High Elves in this QA. That's how his response came across.

But as I said, if they are going to prioritize the model issue, then players have came up with how they can get around that. Whether Blizzard wants to utilize that or not is entirely up to them. For now, what we know is: High Elves as their current looks are do not have the potential to be an Allied Race in the near term.

For the future, players will have to wait and see how the rest of the Allied Races system plays out, and if further down the line, much further, playable High Elves have a spot or not.

- - - Updated - - -

There is also the problem that, if High Elves became playable, the numbers of the Void Elves might decrease drastically, and sorry, but as a Void Elf fan, that is just unacceptable. I know several players who created a Void Elf just to play as an Alliance High Elf, and if they actually released High Elves as a playable Alliance Allied Race, Void Elves' numbers might crumble to dust. So effectively the Void Elves would suffer because a few stubborn fanboys can't get over the fact that their favourite organization (yes, because they are asking for an ORGANIZATION) is comprised of a race already playable on both sides.

Once there are more Allied Races after KT and Zandalari, I'm sure we're going to see a lot of the population spread out between the races. That's just the very nature of the system, it's going to increase diversity in the long-run.

[Evilfish]

Yeah you don't seem to get it, the Belfs, the race, the culture, the general aesthetics belong to the Horde. That was the point always. It does not matter if they put elf ears and blue eyes on a monkey. As long as they don't cut them off from the belf/helf lore it does not matter.

So now we are back to the same stupid shit that was being discussed before the Velfs. About a different model. Understand for fuck sake, you won't get High Elves as you want them.

[protip]

snip

In all other cases, the story and the model are inseparable. There is visual consistency among all playable members of the same groups. Kul'tirans have been culturally independent for ages, and the playable models are just a subset of the Kul'tirans in the game. The Kul'tiran models that are not playable for the Alliance, are already playable in the form of Stormwind humans, so there is no need for overlap. The Dark Iron model updates are just exaggerations to an already existing difference. They were already a distinct group, so there is no contradiction.

The high elves and the Blood Elves are exactly the same group of elves though. The story describes a direct relationship between the appearances of the two races. They are intended to be exactly the same apart from eye color. If they don't appear that way, it lowers the visual fidelity of the game. Those kinds of inconsistencies are jarring to players, because they represent a gameplay difference in a space that for the entire history of WoW has been reserved exclusively for illustrating the lore and story of a race.

[Garfurion]

I really think Nathanos style Undead is way too big of an ask of Blizzard no matter how it could be done.

Now you could make the argument that a Nathanos style Undead is like a Void Elf, a recoloured and rethemed version of an existing race, but it's the Human model used to portray a Human race (albeit a dead one).

The Humans are the absolute core of the Alliance, I find the idea of having access to the model on a Human type race to be just as bad as High Elves, a breach of the faction wall and an undermining of the faction integrity of the Alliance.

I really don't think we should ask for it. We should respect the lore regarding Nathanos, that it was a one off procedure insanely difficult to replicate which was done because of his unique status in the lore.

If people want to play a Human model...the Alliance is there waiting for you.

Otherwise they should be content with the shambling and decaying Forsaken model we know and love BECAUSE it is a shambling and decaying model...that's the zombie fantasy.

The problem with adding undead variants of the core races is also that they are already playable as Death Knights. If you want to play an Nathanos style undead you can already do it, you just have to play a human Death Knight, same with undead Elves, play a Blood Elf Deathknight (or a Void Elf). For eye color there are plenty of gear options like the Eagletalon tierset for hunters that offer a red-eyed hood option which is perfect for Dark Rangers.

If Blizzard does add Undead Elves they will probably be based on the wretched or withered models which may not be what people think of when they ask for them. Blizzard also has to consider that the number of original Forsaken walking around would diminish very fast once less decayed options become available.


edit: Unrelated but for people that want to play as Silver Covenant High Elf, today is your chance. Head on over to Dalaran in Northend and /salute a Silver Covenant Guardian Mage . I guess through the micro-holidays Blizzard did give Alliance players access to Silver Covenant style elves 1 day a year

[netherflame]

Lock this thread, blizz already said no. No means no.

[Garfurion]

There is also the problem that, if High Elves became playable, the numbers of the Void Elves might decrease drastically, and sorry, but as a Void Elf fan, that is just unacceptable. I know several players who created a Void Elf just to play as an Alliance High Elf, and if they actually released High Elves as a playable Alliance Allied Race, Void Elves' numbers might crumble to dust. So effectively the Void Elves would suffer because a few stubborn fanboys can't get over the fact that their favourite organization (yes, because they are asking for an ORGANIZATION) is comprised of a race already playable on both sides.

Would make sense lore wise since Void Elves are only an Elite Squad

[Zorish]

muhah. They created the petition for HE...

also https://imgur.com/a/5olPiGw some more gems

[united]

Well Daniri isn't wrong, Alex Afrasiabi is the Lead World Designer and Creative Director. =P

I wasn't talking about Daniri, I was talking about Gurluas. He was complaining about Ion because Ion decided not to give Alliance a Horde race.

[Obelisk Kai]

The problem with adding undead variants of the core races is also that they are already playable as Death Knights. If you want to play an Nathanos style undead you can already do it, you just have to play a human Death Knight, same with undead Elves, play a Blood Elf Deathknight (or a Void Elf). For eye color there are plenty of gear options like the Eagletalon tierset for hunters that offer a red-eyed hood option which is perfect for Dark Rangers.

Yeah but some people want a Nathanos style Undead, so they can look like Nathanos whilst playing Horde.

This should never happen and I am confident it will never happen. It is much too big a breach of the faction wall and it would be massively insulting to the Alliance for a close copy of their core race to be added to the Horde. It's like a few months back when people were suggesting Mag'har Orcs would join the Alliance. *shudder*.

If people find the Human model that alluring, perhaps they should try playing a Human in the Alliance?

If Blizzard does add Undead Elves they will probably be based on the wretched or withered models which may not be what people think of when they ask for them. Blizzard also has to consider that the number of original Forsaken walking around would diminish very fast once less decayed options become available.

Indeed, which is also part of the reason why Void Elves probably won't be getting normalish skin tones.

As for the Undead Elves I'd really rather not...they'd just be reskinned Blood Elves for a second time and I think we have enough Elves.

Half Elves I suspect would use the Human model as a base so they wouldn't count.

edit: Unrelated but for people that want to play as Silver Covenant High Elf, today is your chance. Head on over to Dalaran in Northend and /salute a Silver Covenant Guardian Mage . I guess through the micro-holidays Blizzard did give Alliance players access to Silver Covenant style elves 1 day a year

Ironically I'd forgotten about that. Logged on my Alliance character (I do have one for the story), went over to Dalaran in Northrend to see if there was any kind of mass gathering doing that, found there wasn't and saluted the guard. Turned me into a High Elf...at least until out of curiousity I did /silly.

And the first joke he uttered was 'The problem with these Horde characters is that they lack sophistication...'*parp*

So that sort of shattered that illusion.

[united]

Yeah but some people want a Nathanos style Undead, so they can look like Nathanos whilst playing Horde.

This should never happen and I am confident it will never happen. It is much too big a breach of the faction wall and it would be massively insulting to the Alliance for a close copy of their core race to be added to the Horde. It's like a few months back when people were suggesting Mag'har Orcs would join the Alliance. *shudder*.

If people find the Human model that alluring, perhaps they should try playing a Human in the Alliance?




Indeed, which is also part of the reason why Void Elves probably won't be getting normalish skin tones.

As for the Undead Elves I'd really rather not...they'd just be reskinned Blood Elves for a second time and I think we have enough Elves.

Half Elves I suspect would use the Human model as a base so they wouldn't count.




Ironically I'd forgotten about that. Logged on my Alliance character (I do have one for the story), went over to Dalaran in Northrend to see if there was any kind of mass gathering doing that, found there wasn't and saluted the guard. Turned me into a High Elf...at least until out of curiousity I did /silly.

And the first joke he uttered was 'The problem with these Horde characters is that they lack sophistication...'*parp*

So that sort of shattered that illusion.

Just give the Forsaken a standing straight option and the Chinese models. Give them Undead Elves for an allied race later on as well. I agree that straight up using the human model isn't needed, but Forsaken don't need to look like crap all the time as well.

[Goldielocks]

Gotta love the asinine narrative that the devs have to obey feedback like it’s law. That’s not how this works.

“But ignoring feedback isn’t in the dev’s best interest! They’ll lose players that way and they don’t want that!”

lol it’s funny how HE zealots are acting like this is the first time Blizzard has ignored feedback. The game is still kicking.

[Syegfryed]

muhah. They created the petition for HE...

also https://imgur.com/a/5olPiGw some more gems

lmao now they are crying for what, becuse they didn't get nightborne and something about LF draenei?

they are so confusing

[Zorish]

lmao now they are crying for what, becuse they didn't get nightborne and something about LF draenei?

they are so confusing

it's from about 10-12 hours ago. now they are for petition (watch bnet forums they want to post info from it i think)

[united]

it's from about 10-12 hours ago. now they are for petition (watch bnet forums they want to post info from it i think)

Do they not realize their megathread on the official forums was basically a petition? It even got recognized by blues and sent to WoW's development team. Even if their change.org petition gets enough signatures it'll reach an intern at Blizzard HQ and get thrown in the trash.