Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Traycor]

Why do they have Afro-American hair textures but no skin color? Just curious.

Back in the 80's everyone had hair like that, it wasn't any specific nationality. (When I say everyone, you get what I mean)
They've never offered darker skin tones on High or Blood Elves, with the assumption they don't have them. I suggested earlier in the thread that they could have some more tanned skin tones because the Silver Covenant would spend more time outdoors and on the move than pampered Blood Elves.

[KrakHed]

Back in the 80's everyone had hair like that, it wasn't any specific nationality. (When I say everyone, you get what I mean)
They've never offered darker skin tones on High or Blood Elves, with the assumption they don't have them. I suggested earlier in the thread that they could have some more tanned skin tones because the Silver Covenant would spend more time outdoors and on the move than pampered Blood Elves.

It honestly doesn't make sense for Blood Elves to be so pampered. They survived the ruin of their Kingdom, had to reclaim its ruins from the Scourge. They should actually be pretty hardened, even if they want to get back to rebuilding the fine life they used to have.

[Traycor]

It honestly doesn't make sense for Blood Elves to be so pampered. They survived the ruin of their Kingdom, had to reclaim its ruins from the Scourge. They should actually be pretty hardened, even if they want to get back to rebuilding the fine life they used to have.

I agree, just talking conceptually. The "theme" as a whole is they act like high society, pampered nobles that need magical brooms to sweep the floor. I'm not saying they aren't hardened or capable or whatever, just talking the differences between them and high elves. I imagine the Silver Covenant scavenging for apples while on the move, while I image Blood Elves having mages conjuring food while riding on wagons filled with magical supplies.

[Jokubas]

Looks good, maybe too simple but i like it. Now i was thinking what about use this symbol on current silver covenant tabard? Make the unicorn blue and slap it on the white spot, which represents sun i guess? I mean it is just an idea, it was not meant to be command i would do it myself, if i had access to PC right now.

I got some inspiration after all and changed things a bit. Did the Silver Covenant tabard and added some filigree to the outfit inspired by Alleria's Hearthstone artwork.

Back in the 80's everyone had hair like that, it wasn't any specific nationality. (When I say everyone, you get what I mean)
They've never offered darker skin tones on High or Blood Elves, with the assumption they don't have them. I suggested earlier in the thread that they could have some more tanned skin tones because the Silver Covenant would spend more time outdoors and on the move than pampered Blood Elves.

Well, the Warcraft movie had elves played by real life actors of varying ethnicity. That could be another way to show how high elves and blood elves have diverged, but that could imply some unfortunate things about the blood elves. As a compromise, perhaps you could say that those options have human heritage somewhere along the line.

[Traycor]

i was talking about tabard motive

Doh! Well here's a new unicorn logo mocked up from the sunrunner. It's a png so it could be dropped onto layered artwork easy. Haven't tried it on a tabard, so it might need to be turned white or have other adjustments to be clearly visible on a background.

[Obelisk Kai]

No pro-helf person is twisting his words. His literal quote is, "High Elves? Spoilers guys, Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves. Void Elves also are another flavor of High Elves." That's it, that's his quote. We're not twisting anything. We're just saying "pretty much" doesn't satisfy the High Elf crowd. That's all the position have taken from his quote. When you can look at Mag'har and see all the customization they're getting, with multiple orc clans. No compromise. Therefore, that fact that Ion 2014 as you mentioned, spoke about Mag'har and High Elves hand-in-hand. Should show that High Elves induction as a playable race shouldn't have any compromises either.

You're kidding right? I've seen pro High Elfers parse his words to the point where they've turned an obvious no into 'they are coming later'. There is a great deal of denial going on in regards to this issue. I mean come on, you are mentioning the 2014 interview as a reason High Elves are possible, yet the 2017 interview shows he thinks they are already in the game. Now, linear time is actually a thing so what Ion said earlier is overwritten by what he said later. It's why if he said tomorrow High Elves are a viable allied race, I wouldn't have any leg to stand on and I couldn't use the 2017 interview to counter what he said in 2018. But he hasn't said anything in 2018, so the 2017 interview stands as the last word on the matter.

Also what do Mag'har have to do with this? In fact what does any of the options the Horde is getting have to do with playable High Elves. Never mind, I know what it is. There's a group who thinks the Horde is getting everything, yet the ONE thing the Alliance wants (or the one thing the pro High Elfers say the Alliance wants) is a High Elf so why can't you have that when the Horde is getting so much? The answer is of course Ion's answer, High Elves are a Horde race and you can play them there.
It's not like Horde players asked for the straight backed Orcs the Alliance had, or the Mag'har Orcs the Alliance has or the dinosaur Druid forms belonging to Alliance Zandalari trolls after all.

You're trying to say their reasoning doesn't contradict your "Void Elves are a compromise to give Alliance High Elf model without High Elves" yet you're using this reasoning to justify not adding High Elves. That is what contradicts your supposition. You're trying to call Void Elves a compromise yourself when the devs didn't mention it as so. This is your own made up point. That's what's being disproved: they are not a compromise to High Elves, since player feedback was never a consideration when creating them.

Void Elves are a clear compromise. You got a modified thalassian elf model that isn't a High Elf. I'm not happy with it but I decided I can live with it. And player feedback was absolutely a factor in creating them. Threads like this have gone on for years on the wowhead forums, the mmo-champion forums and the official forums. To say player feedback wasn't factored in or was never a consideration is an embrace of ignorance. Blizzard tells us they read the forums after all, they just rarely let us know.

Or do you think the decade of flame wars over this issue escaped their attention?

You are passive-aggresively saying their wrong by continuing to say, "Void Elves are the compromise for High Elves." So yeah you are being obtuse at this point. You don't need to explicitly state you think they're wrong, your opinions/comments on the matter show this implicitly.

Ah ah. Politeness now. I explained my rationale and reasonings as to why what I believe still goes hand in hand with what they said in that interview. You don't like my answer but instead of trying to prove it wrong, which you can't as what they said does not contradict Void Elves being a compromise, you simply can't say I am lying.

Who cares if a person was predicting how Alleria would return? Does he work for Blizzard? Does he know Blizzard's story ideas 2-4 years into the future? NO ONE could suspect Void Elves being a thing, it's completely out of the blue. There's nothing desperate about this, Vereesa is the one leading the Silver Covenant, why the hell would Alleria have to be the one bringing High Elves back? Besides it doesn't take a rocket science to say that Alleria's story took the turn it did to bring about Void Elves, not the other way around unlike most of the other Allied Races. Void Elves seem to be added to fit into the Allied Race system rather than naturally being absorbed into it like the other races.

I feel bad for Northem. A prophet scorned amongst his own. It's almost biblical. He was actually right though, Alleria returning to lead the Alliance's thalassian elves.

You're asking me to give you reason only Blizzard can know, they're the one that controls the main storyline for WoW. Again, no one knew that Void Elves were coming, that Alleria's return to story would be like this, this is completely new lore we're stepping into. No one but Blizzard can know that.

No I'm asking you to give the answer everyone else not obsessed with this topic figured out with ten seconds of them being announced. That they didn't want to give the Alliance a duplicate, so they gave the Alliance a variant they thought would be cool in it's own way. Seriously this is not hard.

I am in favor of taking what the devs say at face-value. Even though this has time and again been proven to not likely be the real truth as well. Case in point, Zandalari Druid dino forms, where Ion also literally said only their Travel form would be Dino specific because they considered Bear and Cat form to be about those animals specifically. Lo and behold we have all Dino related forms for Zandalari Druids. This is more recent than his HE quote as well, so just because devs say one thing doesn't mean that's something they'll always follow through with, just like regular people they change their minds.

Well tell you what, when Ion changes his mind and let's us know about it, you can broadcast that on every forum. Until he does so, High Elves are playable.

It's also hypocrisy to discount a Blizzard Producer (the person paying Ion's checks) say as well. The fact of the matter is this: High Elves weren't added. Lots of High Elf fans still want them, Void Elves do not satisfy that niche. Blizzard asked their players tell us which races you would like to see. The High Elf fans are thus giving their feedback, just like anyone else who wants any other race to be playable.

Eh? What Blizzard producer?

And a little aside, no, it isn't a fact to say High Elves weren't added. That is just incorrect.

Blizzard has referred to Blood Elves as High Elves on several occasions.

Chris Metzen himself, the ACTUAL creator of the work, called the Blood Elves Blizzard's take on High Elves.

No you can be unhappy about High Elves being a Horde race. But what you can't say is that High Elves are not playable.

No one cares about how many years you've spent arguing against the fact, this isn't about you or me or anyone in particular. High Elf fans are letting Blizzard know, "hey VEs, they don't cut it. we don't want exiled Blood Elves, we want actual Quel'dorei like Silver Covenant etc that have been loyal to Alliance since WoW's inception."

Oh. Well in that case tough shit. You've got Void Elves. Deal with it.

And lmao it doesn't take a sixth sense to know that when any company is unveiling their "new shiny" they're only going to be discussing and focusing on that "new shiny". If Ion even mentioned that High Elves were coming down the line then that would be a PR shit-storm/shooting yourself in the foot. Also doesn't take a sixth sense to know that Blizzard likes to pace their content, this entire expansion has been about content pacing. Any MMO business works off of pacing. This is not sixth sense stuff, this is common sense stuff. I'm sorry if you are not that shrewd in this aspect.

Oh dear god you are actually treating his 2014 interview as having more weight than his 2017 interview. Remember, linear time. Something said in the past is contradicted if that same person says something different in the future.

Feedback on Void Elves are already showing their unsatisfying, this much is obvious. It's only a matter of time until High Elves like the Silver Covenant are added. No other race deserves an Allied Race spot as much as them, this system is pretty much designed for them. No other race also has been requested for this long and still hasn't died down. Void Elf release didn't do anything to quell the request for High Elves, it added more fuel to the fire.

Look, that's just bullshit. You are in an echo chamber. You keep hearing what you want to hear from others who want High Elves and you keep reinforcing each other in a very depressing cycle where you've convinced yourselves it's inevitable. The very fact the game director said it isn't happening, and you say it's inevitable, not even just possible, but inevitable, shows you have lost perspective.

You don't like Void Elves. That's unfortunate.

But Blizzard is not going to give the Alliance a second thalassian elf model.

Blizzard is not going to admit to you the Void Elves are a failure by adding in ordinary High Elves.

Blizzard is not going to make a race already playable available to the other faction, particularly that faction's most popular race.

Blizzard is not going to add a fifth elf race (well technically a repeat of the second) when we are suffering from elf saturation.

This is not going to happen.

[Deleted]

snip

Sheesh

Just let people speculate and brainstorm what an Alliance allied race could look like lol.

This thread was made so people could circlejerk and have fun, why not let them.

[Andromedes]

I got some inspiration after all and changed things a bit. Did the Silver Covenant tabard and added some filigree to the outfit inspired by Alleria's Hearthstone artwork.

Perfect m8, you are too good. i hope for you that ogres will be playable sooner than later. Maybe you should start doing some concepts for playable ogres and blizz will take some inspiration from you. Well based on your signature i guess you already do, but some drawings like this could be cool. It is interesting to think about ogre heritage armor or mounts.

Doh! Well here's a new unicorn logo mocked up from the sunrunner. It's a png so it could be dropped onto layered artwork easy. Haven't tried it on a tabard, so it might need to be turned white or have other adjustments to be clearly visible on a background.

also pretty good, i am glad, that you two are doing some graphic work, it is certainly more interesting than walls of text.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Back in the 80's everyone had hair like that, it wasn't any specific nationality. (When I say everyone, you get what I mean)
They've never offered darker skin tones on High or Blood Elves, with the assumption they don't have them. I suggested earlier in the thread that they could have some more tanned skin tones because the Silver Covenant would spend more time outdoors and on the move than pampered Blood Elves.

They could have them. Albinoism is a thing and the more customization the better.

[Jokubas]

Perfect m8, you are too good. i hope for you that ogres will be playable sooner than later. Maybe you should start doing some concepts for playable ogres and blizz will take some inspiration from you. Well based on your signature i guess you already do, but some drawings like this could be cool. It is interesting to think about ogre heritage armor or mounts.

Maybe you're right, but I wouldn't know what to do because I already really like the Warlords of Draenor visual direction for ogres, and kinda intended the Create an Ogre update to be my equivalent to this. If ogres get heritage armor, I'd be perfectly fine with them reusing any of those Roman sets.

Back to high elves, I got inspiration to iterate on it a bit more (and used Traycor's sunrunner unicorn):

I never really wanted the armor to have a tabard built in, but in my early designs it was a quick way to add some detail and break up the colors a bit. Now that we've added so many other little things to it, I put the Silver Covenant design straight onto the tunic, which also allows you to see the bare side a bit more, too.

They could have them. Albinoism is a thing and the more customization the better.

Definitely. I wouldn't complain about any extra option like that.

[Andromedes]

I like how it is improved bit by bit. But do you think we went right route with unicorn on silver covenant "tabard"? I dont want to corrupt your creative mind with my not exactly well thought ideas. You can revert back whenever you feel like we overkilled something

[Jokubas]

Frankly, I can never make up my mind about this sort of thing. That's part of the reason I just keep iterating, but leaving the old images. I like them all in their own way.

[Faerillis]

I scoffed when I read the title but this is probably the best idea of seen for playable High Elves. This actually would give them a distinct visual flair, using Thalassian Steeds (so think the Dreamrunners/Prestigious Coursers) would also give them a suitably unique mount and fully incorporating the Silver Covenant even seems quite plausible given the likely death of Vereesa in the Burning of Teldrassil. Though I suspect that last element will actually be used to drive the last of the High Elves to join Umbric and become Void Elves, as the Silver Covenant has no one of significance besides Vereesa to turn to.

But here are the problems I see. First, yeah I know it's a tired sentiment at this point but, it's more Elves; which isn't necessarily deal breaking. The second problem is something that looks like it will be a more serious problem for the Alliance with their Allied Races: Repetition. The Alliance is a very homogeneous group, or rather considerably more so than The Horde, and that makes including more varied races to them considerably harder than The Horde. Now the High Elves will get their own Heritage Armour, Mount, Hairstyles, Jokes/Flirts and Tattoos/Warpaint but still are just another Blood Elf based model in the end. Again this isn't horrible on its own. Then we have to ask, what other Allied Race makes a ton of sense to be added to the Alliance as well and the answer is Wildhammer Dwarves. Not only is that two Allied Races for one side using the same rigging... the aesthetics of this proposal and the Wildhammers are really similar.

Now don't mistake me, I actually love the basic idea of what you've got here and I think the Wildhammer would end up looking SO badass. But I feel like this would also fuel both side's more negative views on how the expansion is shaping up right now.

[Chemical Ellis]

Racial Ability Ideas:

On The Move: Increases flight path speed by 10%.
Perception: Increases your stealth detection.
Nimble Feet: Increases your Agility by X (scales with level).
Troll bane: Experience gains from killing trolls increased by 20%.
- An ability similar to Hunter Disengage?
- Bring back Mana tap?

Your thoughts and ideas?

I actually was thinking about this. My take is maybe a little too conceptual, but~

Exile's Meditation: Channel this ability to quickly regenerate hp, mana/energy/rage, and remove debuffs (can only be used if out of combat for X seconds). In their years cut off from the Sunwell, Quel'dorei learned to quell their magical needs with rigid mental discipline. They can still employ such meditation.

Self-Preservation: Escape to hearthstone-bound location when under 10% health (channeled cast). As the remnants of an endangered race, every High Elf learns when to retreat to battle another day. (This is probably sorta useless, but I like the idea of Helfs making tactical retreats)

Arcane Exploits: Chance for extra materials from milling and disenchanting. The Quel'dorei have always been gifted in the arcane. This knowledge gives them a natural, practical advantage when pursuing mystic disciplines. (As a sort of counterpart to Belf Enchanting bonus)

Vengeful: Chance to do extra damage against trolls, orcs, undead, and blood elves. A High Elf never forgets a grudge. They see these races as responsible for the betrayal/loss of their kingdom, which can stoke them to a rage.


I do like how your concepts stick thematically with the Farstrider ethos - that's been the big divide in Quel'Thalas culture since at least the 2nd War. In my mind, Quel'dorei make most sense as

Hunters
Rogues (both playing into the Ranger archetype)
Mage
Priests (their iconic WC3 classes)
Warriors (Swordsmen)
Paladins (We know there were High Elf initiates, alongside dwarves and humans, joining the Silver Hand after the 2nd War. I think it's reasonable to assume some of them made it to full-fledged Paladin status)
maybe Death Knights, but Acherus' treatment of Belf DKs makes this one a little weird

[Traycor]

I actually was thinking about this. My take is maybe a little too conceptual, but~

Exile's Meditation: Channel this ability to quickly regenerate hp, mana/energy/rage, and remove debuffs (can only be used if out of combat for X seconds). In their years cut off from the Sunwell, Quel'dorei learned to quell their magical needs with rigid mental discipline. They can still employ such meditation.

Self-Preservation: Escape to hearthstone-bound location when under 10% health (channeled cast). As the remnants of an endangered race, every High Elf learns when to retreat to battle another day. (This is probably sorta useless, but I like the idea of Helfs making tactical retreats)

Arcane Exploits: Chance for extra materials from milling and disenchanting. The Quel'dorei have always been gifted in the arcane. This knowledge gives them a natural, practical advantage when pursuing mystic disciplines. (As a sort of counterpart to Belf Enchanting bonus)

Vengeful: Chance to do extra damage against trolls, orcs, undead, and blood elves. A High Elf never forgets a grudge. They see these races as responsible for the betrayal/loss of their kingdom, which can stoke them to a rage.

Not too conceptual at all. The Self-Preservation would probably need to work regardless of health on a cooldown. I can see players trying to knock down their health for the free hearth and accidentally killing themselves. lol. That would certainly make some forum members happy.
The Exiles Meditation is a great idea. That would be useful for any class. Arcane Exploits is great too.
Vengeful seems like an unfair PvP buff. Not sure that one fits. Love all the ideas though, these are great concepts. Updated the OP with these ideas.

- - - Updated - - -

And of course, their ships were the backbone of the navy with the sleek Elven Destroyers and their Unicorn emblem. Admittedly it sounded like they were manned mostly by Humans, but the construction was clearly 'superior' quality.

Any ideas for how their superior shipbuilding could play into the design of the Silver Covenant? I personally like the idea of High Elf floatillas that serve as little quest hubs. You see their clustered ships and rafts around where they hang out. Should they have some kind of racial that reflects this, or should it be a pure story/background element?

[FlubberPuddy]

No I'm asking you to give the answer everyone else not obsessed with this topic figured out with ten seconds of them being announced. That they didn't want to give the Alliance a duplicate, so they gave the Alliance a variant they thought would be cool in it's own way. Seriously this is not hard.
Well tell you what, when Ion changes his mind and let's us know about it, you can broadcast that on every forum. Until he does so, High Elves are playable.

Dude you are so ridiculous, I'm not gonna bother with most of your post since you're obviously having a hard-on over making sure High Elves aren't playable for Alliance. What's not hard is seeing that Void Elves didn't satisfy those that wanted High Elves. It's still a popular request. No one talks/brings up shit that isn't possible anymore on forums.

For instance do you still see threads asking for Flying? No, why? Because Pathfinder allows flying, now most of the time people are complaining about pathfinder needed to fly, but not flying itself. So same thing with High Elves, people are continually still talking about it, just because you're not a fan (more like straight up antagonist against the very idea) and others here doesn't disregard the fact that people are continually talking about it because to those many people it doesn't exist. People wouldn't be continuing to have these kinds of conversations if everyone really believed "OH VOID ELVES = HIGH ELVES OMG" Just because that's the stance you want to take doesn't make it so.

Eh? What Blizzard producer?

And a little aside, no, it isn't a fact to say High Elves weren't added. That is just incorrect.

Blizzard has referred to Blood Elves as High Elves on several occasions.

Chris Metzen himself, the ACTUAL creator of the work, called the Blood Elves Blizzard's take on High Elves.

No you can be unhappy about High Elves being a Horde race. But what you can't say is that High Elves are not playable.

You can't be this obtuse. The lady speaking in that Lost Codex Interview is Shani Edwards, a Blizzard Producer. Let me explain to you what Producers do, they basically fund/pay Blizzard employees, they are the investors so to speak. She's one of the ones that has to give the go-ahead on the new ideas or whatever Blizzard wants to bring up. This is also why Alex mentions in that same interview that he has to fight her on which races get to be made. How do you not know this? You said you watched the interview, wtf?

Oh. Well in that case tough shit. You've got Void Elves. Deal with it.

We are, by continually letting Blizzard know we still want High Elves. Void Elves are cool for people that enjoy, but High elf fans still want High Elves.

Look, that's just bullshit. You are in an echo chamber. You keep hearing what you want to hear from others who want High Elves and you keep reinforcing each other in a very depressing cycle where you've convinced yourselves it's inevitable. The very fact the game director said it isn't happening, and you say it's inevitable, not even just possible, but inevitable, shows you have lost perspective.

You don't like Void Elves. That's unfortunate.

Lol, even people that don't even know about all these forum discussions/HEvsBE stuff know or even care for High Elves know they are still a really popular request for Alliance and still think Alliance can get them. You can say we're in a echo chamber but you're in one yourself too, so it's kinda a pointless thing to bring up. No one really knows, but Blizzard the effectiveness of Void Elves to High Elf fans, but I'm willing to guess the fact that people are still bringing up threads about them means Void Elves weren't effective. Again, you don't see people going and making threads about, "Blizzard please give us Mag'har Orcs" cuz it's well-known that they are happening. People are stupid but they're not THAT stupid.

But Blizzard is not going to give the Alliance a second thalassian elf model.

Blizzard is not going to admit to you the Void Elves are a failure by adding in ordinary High Elves.

Blizzard is not going to make a race already playable available to the other faction, particularly that faction's most popular race.

Blizzard is not going to add a fifth elf race (well technically a repeat of the second) when we are suffering from elf saturation.

This is not going to happen.

Sounds like your headcanon, why not just let people discuss about High Elves then if you're 100% it'll never happen? You enjoy ruining people's brainstorming or something? What's the point of coming into threads like this to try and fight that there's essentially no way in hell Blizzard will add High Elves if you're so set and assured it won't ever be a thing?

I mean you can keep repeating yourself saying High Elves are playable etc, coming into others' threads and regurgitating the same dribble you always do, "High Elves are playable!"

But at least people are moving on about the topic and just brainstorming/discussing on High Elves future, whereas you're literally adding nothing new to the conversation other than how blatantly you have a distaste for High Elves and those who just want em.

[Paraka]

We are, by continually letting Blizzard know we still want High Elves. Void Elves are cool for people that enjoy, but High elf fans still want High Elves.

And these Celt Elves, And lets not forget Thunder/Storm Elves post from months back.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759181851#1

Seriously, doubt this'd stop time soon. I mean, y'all still have a hard-on about Nightborne too.

[Traycor]

I like how it is improved bit by bit. But do you think we went right route with unicorn on silver covenant "tabard"? I dont want to corrupt your creative mind with my not exactly well thought ideas. You can revert back whenever you feel like we overkilled something

It was good to try the Silver Covenant tabard, but the colors are clashing with the earthy tones of the heritage armor. Those are good ranger colors, so I'd rather have them than the tabard colors. The Silver Covenant would probably get rebranded with new tabards anyway, so I don't think straying from their old tabard/colors is a big deal.



- - - Updated - - -

I got some inspiration after all and changed things a bit. Did the Silver Covenant tabard and added some filigree to the outfit inspired by Alleria's Hearthstone artwork.

These colors work better than the one that had my logo on it. This would be the best design with the Silver Covenant colors. So if we used that newer logo, the sunrunner would need to be solid dark blue as pictured here.

[Zorish]

It'd be interesting if they actually picked up some Mogu sorcery and tech, even figured out how to empower themselves with it so that they wouldn't be dependent on the Sunwell if the Blood Elves ever decided to cut them off. Perhaps borrowing a few other influences that they liked. Then you can give their eyes actual lightning blue with spark effects or something. Maybe a few other features as well.

And hell, giving them big 80's hair could work if they've got an electrical charge built up! Go put sparks in it like Dark Irons have in their beards, but electricity.

one of the people with brain there. Hope still not lost.
But a quick note - in ToT most of the "thunder" power were taken by Jaina with her staff. While Blood elves exactly took anima golems. So still problem there.


And as you said - there is no difference between "High elves" and Blood elves. So the moment when they appear as playable race you can freely add the, to horde too. (but some people will shout "NOOOO ALIANCE ONLY! MUH BLUE EYES")

[Deleted]

We have Blood Elves and we have Void Elves. This is enough of Elves with that model.

Honestly, I would rather have some other races added before we get just another variant of some NPC faction.