Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Have you...watched the video? This is far from the pro-HE opinion beyond the arguments he makes (repeats from last video). He is otherwise saying he accepts Ion's reasoning, because it's valid, and that high elves will never happen after void elves.

No he understands the reasoning, but he actually takes issue with its inconsistency. Did you watch the video? Here's Taliesin's actual words:

Saying the exact same thing as he (Ion) does in the Q&A. He's been totally consistent in this, it's not new information and so it doesn't change a single thing that we said in the video.

And we come to the conclusion in that video that High Elves will probably never happen, because Void Elves exist. Which is also pretty much what Ion says. So we totally understand his reasoning and his stance on Alliance High Elves as we say in the video, we don't actually have a horse in this race.

However, there are a couple of things he says which I do take issue with. Namely that every single reason Ion gives not to have Alliance High Elves are also a reason not to have Void Elves. I mean yes, Blood Elves are High Elves. But Blood Elves are Void Elves, so that's obviously not a deal-breaker.

No there's not many examples of High Elves out in the world, except there are considerably more than Void Elves. And they've been in the game for far longer.

And no there's no obvious leader for them apart from y'know I don't know maybe Alleria - something which is also true for Void Elves to the extent that Alleria is the leader of the Void Elves and the only named Void Elf NPC in game!

None of these reasons are real reasons against having Alliance High Elves if they are not reasons against having Void Elves. And the annoying thing is it doesn't matter. Blizz can decide that they would rather Void Elves just because and that is honestly a good enough reason. There's no need to pretend that it's all these other things. We're all grown ups after all, just make sure you don't say anything provocative like -shows clip of Ion saying Horde is waiting- Oh !@#$.

See, he's saying the reasons Ion gave in the Q&A aren't real reasons against Alliance High Elves. But that really it doesn't matter and that's the annoying bit. Because Blizzard can go ahead and decide what they want in the game or not, but that there's no reason to pretend it's due to this, that, and those etc. He also says:

Whether I want them to be an Allied Race or not is unimportant. By Ion's own existing Allied Race standards, they indisputably could be.

And if Ion had just said, "we don't wanna put Alliance High Elves in the game." Honestly I think most people would be okay with that. It's this constant saying that they're not possible, this oh they're just like Blood Elves, there's not many of them to justify that decision that upsets people who really care about the subject. Especially now that Void Elves exist that are all of those reasons and more.

Ok, it's like if I say, "I don't like cucumber," no one is going to be upset that I don't like cucumber. But if I say the reason I don't like cucumber is because I hate the idea of eating a long, green vegetable, which is why instead I'm going to eat a courgette. That doesn't mean I'm wrong not to like cucumber, but I wouldn't blame people for pointing out that my reasons aren't very consistent.

See? He is, as I said coming off as the neutral everyman approach. It lets him see where the inconsistencies are, since he has no horse in the race. And as I said his opinions are how I feel about Ion's response from the Q&A.

Nowhere did I said it's the "Pro-HE opinion", man you just can't stop putting words into people's mouth can you?

One can understand someone's reasoning, which in the HE case is: We don't want to add High Elves. He's not saying Ion is wrong for saying that. What he is saying is that Ion's reasons attributed to why HEs can't be a thing, applies doubly so to VEs and thus is inconsistent.

Just as he uses his cucumber example. He's not wrong about not liking cucumbers, but then saying it's because it's a long green veggie as the reasons why, then eating a courgette is very inconsistent and flawed.

Your comment really doesn't have anything to do with what I said in my comment so I'm not sure what you're getting on about? I said none of the things you mention. Yet I have humored you nonetheless.

Taliesin is essentially saying that Ion should've just came out and said "We just don't want to do High Elves because we don't" and not beat around the bush with reasonings that have been debunked by the existence of Void Elves themselves.

[Goldielocks]

Then stop saying that they have kept the same opinion, when it is not true.

What are you talking about? There are definitely people on the dev team who are probably pro HE. The difference is that there isn't enough of them.

[Deleted]

care to remind me how much food he eat during this time, how much vitamins he eat. Comparing greenhous bodybuilding and actuall harsh life is one of the stupidest think i can think.

Your "HE" LACK of resources in their bodies, cause of their pride. Yes you can go vegetarian and this WON'T help you in bodubuilding. And more - till restoration of Silvermoon every BE lived same harsh life physically.

You can build BULKIER phys only when you have everything for it in your body. Vitamins, proteins, and etc. Your body built muscule IF IT'S HAVE BUILDING MATERIAL! And in suramar we see that is elf lack of mana - he go skinnier, not bulkier. Yeah you can be like wiry, but not bulkier. And being BULKIER totaly not help in your "ranger life".

Im just saying, that you can look different in a few years.. I am not saying that helves should look like bodybuilders. Having weaker bodies due to their "vegetarianism" would be fine by me.

[Syegfryed]

@Syegfryed i know what are you doing.

You are just creating a version of HE that you just come up with but downgraded on purpose so you can now say: 'Hah, now you don't like my own version of it right'?

It's just not dishonest, but insulting, i suggest you to be more constructive, but from what i say you don't like that path because destroying this thread is easier for your goal.

its just to make the opossite pal, you guys want something better, with no lore reasons, a blood/high elf model improved, enhanced

i gave you another option, who make sense with lore.

people want elves who don't use neither consume magic, they cut of of all magic sources, like people said, they overcome the magic addict, thats what would happened to then, skinny, more pale, and white eyes, not bulky, prettier, tanned and healthy, is asinine to assume they would be like that

people want the same treatment of nightborne and night elves, but just want prettier and better versions, not versions who make sense ( even when this don't mean they will be downgraded or ugly)

[Sorrior]

wait what? *looking on Lor'themar Theron *previous titles* Ranger lord of Silvermoon... Looking on his right Halduron Brightwing "Ranger General of Silvermoon"... imposters? Is is illusion? what are they hiding?

I rarely 0lay my be sooo i admit i go by what i see outside silvermoon in game(which is a lack of archers alot of blood knights and spellbreakers with mages backing them up)

[Highwhale]

Ok, are arcane loving city dwelling elves opposite to arcane hating elves who live in literal trees? Yes, of course.

Since when Night Elves started to hate Arcane again? Last time I checked Highborne were allowed to stay in Darnassus and helped re learn magic for others NELFs.

As for your question, the Blood Elf model is based on human ideals. The aren't as bulky as Night Elves, nor as thin as Nightborne. They have basically normal human skin tones. The only real sign of magic on them is the eyes, which we've established doesn't constitute a significant difference. If you contrast that with a group who doesn't have access to magic, what do you even change? They just look normal: like a regular, magic-free human being with pointy ears and glowy eyes. Normal doesn't have an opposite that High Elf fans are going to like, so I don't see how that comparison can be pushed far enough to make a good allied race option.

I don't know. Its Blizzard's job to make stuff. For me it is enough knowing that magic addiction (sating or overcoming it) is good enough reason for physical changes.

[Goldielocks]

One can understand someone's reasoning, which in the HE case is: We don't want to add High Elves. He's not saying Ion is wrong for saying that. What he is saying is that Ion's reasons attributed to why HEs can't be a thing, applies doubly so to VEs and thus is inconsistent.

Except that it isn't. Ion stated "we don't want to blur faction lines."

Even if you ignored all the other stuff he says, you can't fight against that. There's nothing objective about that statement. The only thing you can do is fight with your wallet.

[Deleted]

people want the same treatment of nightborne and night elves, but just want prettier and better versions, not versions who make sense ( even when this don't mean they will be downgraded or ugly)

Well you got prettier night elves, who have actual eyebrows without beards.. so stop bitching and for once let others have prettier things than you have

[Sorrior]

Except that it isn't. Ion stated "we don't want to blur faction lines."

Even if you ignored all the other stuff he says, you can't fight against that. There's nothing objective about that statement. The only thing you can do is fight with your wallet.

Yeeah pandaren reallly blow that alart..and "mistake" or not it is bullshit reasoning.

I really feel like pro he people focus on lore and story

While anti are more focused on the looks and body

[FlubberPuddy]

Except that it isn't. Ion stated "we don't want to blur faction lines."

Even if you ignored all the other stuff he says, you can't fight against that. There's nothing objective about that statement. The only thing you can do is fight with your wallet.

Yeah you can still point out the inconsistency, it's one of the first ones Taliesin says. Blood Elves are also Void Elves, so that apparently isn't an issue at all. Ion even refers to them as Blood Elves still during his response. As in, Blizzard did give Alliance Blood Elves lol

So really it just is: We don't want to.

And no one's talking about continuing the fight. Just pointing out what was said in Taliesin's video and how I agree with it.

[Sorrior]

Yeah you can still point out the inconsistency, it's one of the first ones Taliesin says. Blood Elves are also Void Elves, so that apparently isn't an issue at all. Ion even refers to them as Blood Elves still during his response. As in, Blizzard did give Alliance Blood Elves lol

So really it just is: We don't want to.

Whiich they could just say and would have been better accepted then the flimsy ass excuses that imply he knows nothing of what has been said since blizzcon

[Zorish]

Im just saying, that you can look different in a few years.. I am not saying that helves should look like bodybuilders. Having weaker bodies due to their "vegetarianism" would be fine by me.

i am happy that we come to agreement. now what's left others *insert number* "HE" fans. Again - i am not saying that they must be like nightfallen, but skinnier (maybe word "elegant" will be for this) definetly. It will reflect their choice of life at least

[Gentlepenguin]

All you did was repeat his arguments, which I said he did. That still doesn't change that he accepts Ion's response, void elves killed any chance of high elves, and that he acknowledges his opinion and all his arguments are irrelevant. The "everyman" approach, as you call it. Literally just straight up says "Hey, my arguments are invalid, but here they are."

[Zorish]

I rarely 0lay my be sooo i admit i go by what i see outside silvermoon in game(which is a lack of archers alot of blood knights and spellbreakers with mages backing them up)

care to remind me when we last time saw updating for BC content?

plus

https://imgur.com/a/FpJQ1Jc last time when we saw this forces face to face if would say that "High elves" had more mages (at least with this 2 squads right in front the door). And LTT called for Rangers. Now Silvermoon consist 3 big parts of their military forces (i would say): Liadrin Blood Knights, Halduron Farstriders, Rommath Magisters.

[Deleted]

Yeeah pandaren reallly blow that alart..and "mistake" or not it is bullshit reasoning.

I really feel like pro he people focus on lore and story

While anti are more focused on the looks and body

Expect some dodgy answer, like the whole blizzard regrets giving pandaren to both sides..., while it was actually personal opinion of ghostcrawler..

[FlubberPuddy]

Whiich they could just say and would have been better accepted then the flimsy ass excuses that imply he knows nothing of what has been said since blizzcon

Yup, this is also why Taliesin says that everything in his previous video still stands. Since Ion didn't give a new reason or reasons at all. Merely the same thing he said at previous Blizzcon.

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All you did was repeat his arguments, which I said he did. That still doesn't change that he accepts Ion's response, void elves killed any chance of high elves, and that he acknowledges his opinion and all his arguments are irrelevant. The "everyman" approach, as you call it. Literally just straight up says "Hey, my arguments are invalid, but here they are."

You can still point out a person's reasoning is inconsistent and not be able to do anything at all about it. Those aren't mutually exclusive you know?

[Aldo Hawk]

They've gone on record saying they didn't like how Pandaren turned out. Also, to equate VE and NB to to them is a complete fallacy lmao. Those two have major aesthetic differences from the parent model they share. As I said, time to come to reality.

Except that what you think is wrong is your opinion. Everything you're presenting right now is your opinion lmao

No I'm just talking to a dude who thinks his opinion is more valuable than the devs' themselves. Another zealot confusing objectivity with subjectivity.

You really think the crusade for HE started just months ago? Years ago? You really think they've never responded to these requests before now?

No. This has been going on since WoW launched.

So what are we going full on conspiracy theory now? Where's my tin foil hat?

That means nothing. The majority of the team doesn't want to do it. That's how this works.

So, a flavor of Night elves and a flavor of Thalassians are not doing nothing to the faction wall, and you call me bullshit, and even you do not take in consideration the changes HE must take to be playable because you don't even care, you just don't want them.

And Pandaren, while they don't liked them, they are there.

And then, what in the 2º quote you made to me is just an opinion and not a fact? point me so i can see through my blindness. And please, this is just you saying that i think my opinion is more valuable, don't make me laught please.

The game released in 2005 without many of the original races, wow got tweaked a lot from then and from their first expansion HE got added in the horde as the BE, who's lore got explained in WIII, but in a side note alliance HE were getting added expansion throught expansion, not in a great role overall, but being there and collaborating with the alliance and as time passed on we saw them in more places and being more (despite being just a bit) differentiated from BE and important by themselves, as like providing the alliance a stronghold in Dalaran, helping in isle of thunder, obeying Jaina's commands to kill every BE in Dalaran, and even going alongside Night Elves as their own army to free suramar, and then there's some HE in the alliance datamined in B4A playing roles, i don't know, but that seems as a valuable race to be playable.

[Syegfryed]

Well you got prettier night elves, who have actual eyebrows without beards..

"prettier nigh elves"

omegaLUL

no wait, are you seriuos? come on dude the nightborne we get are even the worse version of the actually nightborne

so stop bitching and for once let others have prettier things than you have

so we can play dolls, like rly, is this a real conversation

[Sorrior]

care to remind me when we last time saw updating for BC content?

Never sadly. Why i was saying outside of thst i see very little ranger left..also think i said before it really does need more love

[Aldo Hawk]

Yeah why like obelisk i now see him as someone who just cannot get it so will try to ignore(i refuse to use the ignore feature on the site abd rarely look at names/icons thus why i sometimes still reply)

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Because they never learned to overcome the addiction and instead are consumed by it. Big difference even irl.

Yea, i too think using ignore is just dumb and placing yourself in an echo chamber.