Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Last in, first out as you put it in the second war eventually did fight in wc3 annd have been with the alliance since wrath.

The group that has been with the Alliance since Wrath has as much right to speak for the High Elves as the Defias Brotherhood has to speak for Humanity.

That is at minimun 15 years if not 30 plus. More then other races. Remember dwarves joined in wc2 as did the gnomes. The gnomes were not seen again till wow if i recall right.

And prettty sure in wc2 they joined after the humans fled north. Did they even try or know about them in wc1?

In Warcraft 1 the Kingdom of Stormwind was left to face the Horde alone due to internal politics and a failure to grasp the magnitude of the threat.

In Warcraft 2 when they realised the threat, Lordaeron gathered the leaders of all the nations in the Eastern Kingdoms and formed the Alliance. The High Elves did not want to join and only sent a token force when a blood oath was invoked by Anduin Lothar, last descendant of King Thoridan who aided the Elves during the Troll Wars.

The Gnomes were not seen in Warcraft 3 as they sacrificed themselves. The troggs invaded their city at the same time as the Burning Legion invaded. Rather than ask for help from an Alliance busy trying to save the world, the Gnomes decided they would keep the issue a secret so as not to distract their allies at a critical moment and they faced the invasion themselves. As a result they lost their city and 80% of the population.

The Gnomes' sacrifice helped ensure a mortal victory against the Legion. To say they make less of a contribution to the Alliance than the High Elves is just plain wrong.

[protip]

Well his answer did leave hope for the future.
I cant remember exactly the words but i quoted them in page 120sh of this thread. It said sonething like everything is possible for the future.

Although you think it was kindness, for high elf supporters it felt insulting as if they were being mocked by the game director. In his position he should have a more diplomatic approach to these subjects.

But again this is my opinion.

He was kind of diplomatic, when he said, "anything is possible in the future." If you take that in context with the fact that he said they had no plans to add high elves and several reasons they felt it was a bad idea, it's really nothing more than a platitude.

[Obelisk Kai]

Again, numbers mean nothing in this game.

Numbers mean everything. Ion brought up numbers AGAIN when talking about High Elves. And it's not just that he mentioned it for the second time, but that this is the fifth or sixth time since WoW's launch a Blizzard source has mentioned population numbers as a negative reason for adding Alliance High Elves.

Clearly there is something to it regarding the Alliance High Elves if Blizzard is so persistent in bringing it up.

[RangerDaz]

Yet those of us opposed to Alliance High Elves warned that the pro High Elf position rested on persuading Blizzard to implement a gigantic retcon, that the High Elves were a more populous and relevant group than Blizzard has said they are.

So yes, the lore arguments weren't relevant once Blizzard decided to maintain the faction wall, as a retcon would not be required.

Well the silver covenant and vereesa arent a giant retcon.
He completely ignored everything they were included ingame.
I know you would ignore as well, but you and me are players, we arent spokesmen of the company. Its a big difference.

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He was kind of diplomatic, when he said, "anything is possible in the future." If you take that in context with the fact that he said they had no plans to add high elves and several reasons they felt it was a bad idea, it's really nothing more than a platitude.

Well, everything is opened for the future means exactly what it means. They can come or wont come in future expansions. It is a form of diplomacy, yes, but it was the only diplomatic part of the whole statement.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Not as much being changed as you think a

Except for the whole sleeping with humans and being humble really only is a Vereesa/Alleria thing, nothing shows the average high elf is willing to discard their traditions to the extent people are now suggesting they should just to fit their "Please let us play them" mold.

B I HAVE BLOOD ELF CHARACTERS i really do not know how often i have to say that

Then you should already be satisfied.

And "the horde is their for you" is such a bullshit answer a 12 year old(arguable the nost immature age fir a human) coukd come up with better and something more mature.

Again, you are not owed high elves, you never were.

[Syegfryed]

@Zorish i think you made some enemies

https://i.imgur.com/OxoK6RR.png

[Obelisk Kai]

Well his answer did leave hope for the future.
I cant remember exactly the words but i quoted them in page 120sh of this thread. It said sonething like everything is possible for the future.

Although you think it was kindness, for high elf supporters it felt insulting as if they were being mocked by the game director. In his position he should have a more diplomatic approach to these subjects.

But again this is my opinion.

I thought he was reasonable. He left no ambiguity in his answer and laid out exactly why it wasn't going to happen. That he didn't die their hands forever and ever is not sign they may rethink the issue someday, but more hedging against a currently unforeseen circumstance that might cause them to re-evaluate.

Nothing short of a yes or a maybe in a future expansion would have been satisfactory. He came to deliver a 'no' and that was always going to be poorly received.

And yes, it was a kindness. A tough love kindness. Look at the amount of effort Traycor put into his designs. Look at what the writers of the open letter to Blizzard talks about, skipping classes and deadlines to manage this cause.

Some people may say that is passion, and it is, but it's passion in pursuit of something that is never going to happen. As such, it's just a dreadful waste of effort and emotional investment.

Hopefully there are those on the pro High Elf side who have now understood that this isn't going to happen, that they have found closure and that they can move on to either enjoying other aspects of the game or enjoying other games if High Elves were such an important goal.

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Well the silver covenant and vereesa arent a giant retcon.
He completely ignored everything they were included ingame.
I know you would ignore as well, but you and me are players, we arent spokesmen of the company. Its a big difference.

Yet the Silver Covenant are clearly what they appear to be. A small militia of surviving High Elves gathered by Veressa that serves Dalaran and has been used as a story tool by Blizzard to further the Blood Elf storyline and Jaina's plotline.

While some players may complain that they were shoved in their face every expansion, Blizzard probably felt they had a story they wanted to tell and they weren't beholden to players misinterpreting what the Silver Covenant was.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I thought he was reasonable. He left no ambiguity in his answer and laid out exactly why it wasn't going to happen. That he didn't die their hands forever and ever is not sign they may rethink the issue someday, but more hedging against a currently unforeseen circumstance that might cause them to re-evaluate.

Nothing short of a yes or a maybe in a future expansion would have been satisfactory. He came to deliver a 'no' and that was always going to be poorly received.

And yes, it was a kindness. A tough love kindness. Look at the amount of effort Traycor put into his designs. Look at what the writers of the open letter to Blizzard talks about, skipping classes and deadlines to manage this cause.

Some people may say that is passion, and it is, but it's passion in pursuit of something that is never going to happen. As such, it's just a dreadful waste of effort and emotional investment.

Hopefully there are those on the pro High Elf side who have now understood that this isn't going to happen, that they have found closure and that they can move on to either enjoying other aspects of the game or enjoying other games if High Elves were such an important goal.

You're fooling yourself, but I admire your optimism to think that the people who haven't given up at this point are going to give up now.

[Deleted]

Numbers mean everything. Ion brought up numbers AGAIN when talking about High Elves. And it's not just that he mentioned it for the second time, but that this is the fifth or sixth time since WoW's launch a Blizzard source has mentioned population numbers as a negative reason for adding Alliance High Elves.

Clearly there is something to it regarding the Alliance High Elves if Blizzard is so persistent in bringing it up.

and you still take his word as holy when you can clearly see that he is wrong about numbers, because there is far less void elves

[Sorrior]

Except for the whole sleeping with humans and being humble really only is a Vereesa/Alleria thing, nothing shows the average high elf is willing to discard their traditions to the extent people are now suggesting they should just to fit their "Please let us play them" mold.



Then you should already be satisfied.



Again, you are not owed high elves, you never were.

You just don't get WHY people want high elves is the issue here

[Friendlyimmolation]

and you still take his word as holy when you can clearly see that he is wrong about numbers, because there is far less void elves

Void elves can grow in number, void elves have a distinct culture and aren't "Majestic, blonde etc."

You're not getting white pale elves (unless you roll Horde.) Perhaps you should ask for things that are possible instead?

If Horde players were asking for playable humans like Anduin they would be met with the same flat no from Blizzard.

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You just don't get WHY people want high elves is the issue here

Oh I understand why, and I've said before it doesn't matter, not in a two faction game.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Well to be blunt, they deserve it. It's been over a fucking decade and now with the addition of Velfs these people not only cry harder but become hostile. Frankly in Ion's place I wouldn't have bothered with an answer.

Can you blame them? The community never asked for Void Elves, and to be frank, their inclusion over High Elves is rather insulting (especially with the BS excuses against High Elves).

[Deleted]

Void elves can grow in number, void elves have a distinct culture and aren't "Majestic, blonde etc."

You're not getting white pale elves (unless you roll Horde.) Perhaps you should ask for things that are possible instead?

If Horde players were asking for playable humans like Anduin they would be met with the same flat no from Blizzard.

Oh another one who tells me they can grow in number.. tell me the whole process and i decide based on sources, if you are just headcanoning or not

Also void elves were blood elves yesterday, there is no distinct culture, even high elves had more time

Why would people ask for humans in the horde?

[Zorish]

@Zorish i think you made some enemies

https://i.imgur.com/OxoK6RR.png

muhah. didn't saw that. well they probably contacted mod of this forum and i was asked to stop this. so - who is interested in their "discussion", sadly you must join their discord and read it yourself.

[RangerDaz]

I thought he was reasonable. He left no ambiguity in his answer and laid out exactly why it wasn't going to happen. That he didn't die their hands forever and ever is not sign they may rethink the issue someday, but more hedging against a currently unforeseen circumstance that might cause them to re-evaluate.

Nothing short of a yes or a maybe in a future expansion would have been satisfactory. He came to deliver a 'no' and that was always going to be poorly received.

And yes, it was a kindness. A tough love kindness. Look at the amount of effort Traycor put into his designs. Look at what the writers of the open letter to Blizzard talks about, skipping classes and deadlines to manage this cause.

Some people may say that is passion, and it is, but it's passion in pursuit of something that is never going to happen. As such, it's just a dreadful waste of effort and emotional investment.

Hopefully there are those on the pro High Elf side who have now understood that this isn't going to happen, that they have found closure and that they can move on to either enjoying other aspects of the game or enjoying other games if High Elves were such an important goal.

- - - Updated - - -



Yet the Silver Covenant are clearly what they appear to be. A small militia of surviving High Elves gathered by Veressa that serves Dalaran and has been used as a story tool by Blizzard to further the Blood Elf storyline and Jaina's plotline.

While some players may complain that they were shoved in their face every expansion, Blizzard probably felt they had a story they wanted to tell and they weren't beholden to players misinterpreting what the Silver Covenant was.

I honestly cant see any kindness on what and how he said it.
And he did leave ambiguity for the future
And as you said blizzard felt they had a story to tell for the silver covenant for many expansions. Ion completely ignored its relevance, which is one of the reasons high elf fans werent happy at all

[Phaelia]

Ion could literally say “High Elves are never going to happen for the Alliance in the way you wish for them.” and people would still argue that he’s being misinterpreted. Aren’t you guys exhausted of arguing about this by now?

[protip]

Oh another one who tells me they can grow in number.. tell me the whole process and i decide based on sources, if you are just headcanoning or not

Also void elves were blood elves yesterday, there is no distinct culture, even high elves had more time

Why would people ask for humans in the horde?

I mean, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to grow in number. It's true that they were initially created by a one time event, but Illidan becoming a demon hunter was also a process that wasn't repeatable, and they just found a different way. We have no lore specifically saying that it's not repeatable, and since they're a playable race, they're not going anywhere.

That's not to say I have any opinion on whether Void Elves or High Elves have a greater population, just saying that I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for there to be more Void Elves created in the future.

[Arrashi]

@Zorish i think you made some enemies

https://i.imgur.com/OxoK6RR.png

Dear god, what is going on ? I mean it feels like messing with cult or something.

[Deleted]

WAIT EVERYONE.

We should let them have high elves. Why you may ask? So blizzard wastes an allied race slot that a minority wants and instead they will give us Vulpera and Sneks(which is highly likely for the alliance.) That way horde has two cool allied races! Let's campaign for it Sethrak for the horde! Plus it will get rid of all the blood elves who are not dedicated to the horde.

[Garfurion]

The last time the Horde and the Alliance went to war, the Horde fell apart and the Alliance sacked our capital. How can you say you didn't win a major conflict when the last time there was a major conflict the Alliance won?

I never said "I didn't win a major conflict. I was talking about the general perception of players regarding the Alliance in WoW vs WC2/3. Maybe try to actually read and understand what people mean before falsely accusing them of saying things they never said.

As for SoO that was a combined effort by Horde and Alliance which was very clear from the quest where Alliance players had to ask/beg Vol'jin if they could join the Darkspear Rebellion.

Most people that play WoW (and Warcraft 2 and 3 before) base their perception on what they see in the game. They don't read the books or wowpedia.

What was visible in MoP for players was a crater where Theramore used to be. What was not visible for players was a destroyed Oggrimar after SoO. These kind of things color people's perceptions/memories a lot more than someone from Blizzard telling Alliance players that SoO is a great "fist-pumping" moment for them since that is not their memory of SoO.

It has taken years for the Horde to recover from the last war.

I guess it was terrible for Horde players to have to walk everywhere on foot because flight-paths didn't work and their mounts had starved from lack of food

And getting the High Elves back on your side isn't going to fix the issues you feel the Alliance has. In fact, hoping for something that clearly isn't going to happen means you've set an impossible bar for yourself, that the Alliance will only be good once it attains the unattainable.

I never said High Elves would fix any issues.

It should be clear to anyone who follows the "discussions" here and on the official forums that the request for playable High Elves is mostly driven by nostalgic feeling towards High Elves in WC2/3 (and LOTR/Tolkien), not lore/facts.

Part of that nostalgia stems from the fact that in the RTS games the player always won (eventually ). Since there were High Elven units in both WC2 and 3 on the Alliance side people have a more positive connotation with them than with Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and Night-Elves who have all changed compared to WC2&3.

The lore/historical accuracy of their (childhood) memories of WC2/3 is not really important to them but you are right that playable High Elves wouldn't change anything because the romantic feeling towards them would very quickly be lost once people realize it doesn't really change their game experience.

Pandaren are a good example/warning. They were one of the most requested playable race for years and Blizzard didn't dare give them to a single faction but currently they seem to be one of the least played races per faction.