1. #3781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    They're one of the founding groups of the Alliance, the reason the Kirin Tor exist at all, and old allies with the humans against the Amani.
    And yet they're a Horde race because "muh garithos."
    Again i think he knows nothing of the alliance side

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Bias is subjective. I can quote multiple developer and creative sources affirming that Blood Elves are High Elves and therefore a Horde race.

    And yes, Gnomes are far more important to the Alliance than the High Elf remnant. Gnomes are present in multiple Alliance settlements. Gnomes provide a valuable service to the Alliance in providing their advanced technology. Gnomes are also a playable Alliance race, that alone makes them far more important the High Elf remnant in the Alliance.

    True bias is insisting that non playable Alliance High Elves are more important to the Alliance than the Gnomes, especially considering lorewise what the Gnomes sacrificed for the Alliance.
    Again have you ever really played alliance?

  2. #3782
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Because they are more reliant on magic

    And i don't think you ever answered me before. Do you even HAVE an alliance character? Because HE are at minimum the second most represented race in our questing
    I have levelled several Alliance characters. I find your assertion that High Elves are the second most represented race in your questing as deeply questionable. I suspect the reason you think that is because the encounters with High Elves stick in your mind due to your desire for them.

    I have found the most prominent Alliance races in questing to be Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves and Draenei. High Elves are nowhere near that level.

  3. #3783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The High Elves were NOT a founding member of the Alliance. They were the last nation in the Eastern Kingdoms to join the Alliance, they only did so when an ancient blood oath was invoked, they sent a token force at first, only committed when the Horde invaded Quel'thalas directly and were the first nation to bail on the Alliance when the opportunity presented.

    Your 'founder' Alliance race was the last in and the first out.

    For the vast majority of their history the High Elves were xenophobic arrogant jerks who wanted as little to do with Humanity as possible and only interacted with Dalaran following the Troll Wars due to a shared interest in magic.
    Whiich the BE represent while HE can represent moving beyond the xenophobia so as not to rely on draining life/fel magic

  4. #3784
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Again i think he knows nothing of the alliance side
    That you think the High Elves have a very long history of ties to the Alliance demonstrates that I know the Alliance better than you. You are applying, well, headcanon to the situation of the High Elves relationship with the Alliance.

    Remember, last in, first out.

  5. #3785
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Whiich the BE represent while HE can represent moving beyond the xenophobia so as not to rely on draining life/fel magic
    Why do you want high elves when you need every single thing about them changed to be playable? Just ask for white elves, not that you will get them, but "high elf" is just the blanket term for "Give blood elves but Alliance."

    and as Ion has already said, the Horde is there waiting for you.

    You do realize you are not entitled to them because Alliance is your favorite faction right?
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #3786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I have levelled several Alliance characters. I find your assertion that High Elves are the second most represented race in your questing as deeply questionable. I suspect the reason you think that is because the encounters with High Elves stick in your mind due to your desire for them.

    I have found the most prominent Alliance races in questing to be Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves and Draenei. High Elves are nowhere near that level.
    You put ALOT of words in my mouth. I desire them only so much as i desire more choices.

    If ion gave a REAL reason not to have them i would accept it as is it is bs reasons won't suffice.

    And yeah they stick out more because they are their at EVERY CRITICAL JUNCTION AND BATTLE

    They do show up more with their own areas then any other race i know of post bc. Mixed groups sure a few dark irons? Yeah but they have been here for some time and again HE ARE NOT BE they have fundamental differences

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Why do you want high elves when you need every single thing about them changed to be playable? Just ask for white elves, not that you will get them, but "high elf" is just the blanket term for "Give blood elves but Alliance."

    and as Ion has already said, the Horde is there waiting for you.

    You do realize you are not entitled to them because Alliance is your favorite faction right?
    Not as much being changed as you think a

    B I HAVE BLOOD ELF CHARACTERS i really do not know how often i have to say that

    And "the horde is their for you" is such a bullshit answer a 12 year old(arguable the nost immature age fir a human) coukd come up with better and something more mature.

  7. #3787
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    How odd. You'd rather Ion just lie to you, so you can continue pushing a concept they've been astoundingly transparent about not wanting to implement? Isn't it rather worse to let you obsess and get your hopes up over something they've internally taken off the table already?

    I'm just glad we got some some insight into their design philosophy. Sure, the population comment was silly, but the meat of the answer was solid.
    I never said he should lie.
    I already said it a few times in this endless thread.
    It feels that he mixed his own personal opinion with a gameplay decision, completely ignoring the arguments that support the lore arguments for high elves, as if they werent relevant at all. His justification felt biased because of this.

  8. #3788
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Whiich the BE represent while HE can represent moving beyond the xenophobia so as not to rely on draining life/fel magic
    The Blood Elves have already moved past xenophobia. That was the consequence of the destruction of their civilization when they realised they could no longer maintain their isolation. That was one of the reasons they joined the Horde. It is not going to be an 'Alliance High Elf theme'.

    As for not draining life/fel magic...that plotline was resolved a decade ago. Not in game time, real time. The Blood Elves have actually spent more time NOT draining mana than they did doing so. It is irrelevant to the current world situation.

    So your suggestion doesn't work on the grounds that it does not make sense. Next?

  9. #3789
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    And because over 90% of the Race joined the Horde, weird!
    And about that many gnomes got irradiated when Gnomeregan fell, and God only knows how many humans and orcs have died over the years, yet they remain able to pull an infinite number of soldiers out of their arses at a moment's notice.

    Fact it, High Elves are an iconic Alliance race that were given to the Horde, not a Horde race that people are wanting to have given to the Alliance.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  10. #3790
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    I never said he should lie.
    I already said it a few times in this endless thread.
    It feels that he mixed his own personal opinion with a gameplay decision, completely ignoring the arguments that support the lore arguments for high elves, as if they werent relevant at all. His justification felt biased because of this.
    Yet those of us opposed to Alliance High Elves warned that the pro High Elf position rested on persuading Blizzard to implement a gigantic retcon, that the High Elves were a more populous and relevant group than Blizzard has said they are.

    So yes, the lore arguments weren't relevant once Blizzard decided to maintain the faction wall, as a retcon would not be required.

  11. #3791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That you think the High Elves have a very long history of ties to the Alliance demonstrates that I know the Alliance better than you. You are applying, well, headcanon to the situation of the High Elves relationship with the Alliance.

    Remember, last in, first out.
    Last in, first out as you put it in the second war eventually did fight in wc3 annd have been with the alliance since wrath.

    That is at minimun 15 years if not 30 plus. More then other races. Remember dwarves joined in wc2 as did the gnomes. The gnomes were not seen again till wow if i recall right.

    And prettty sure in wc2 they joined after the humans fled north. Did they even try or know about them in wc1?

  12. #3792
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet those of us opposed to Alliance High Elves warned that the pro High Elf position rested on persuading Blizzard to implement a gigantic retcon, that the High Elves were a more populous and relevant group than Blizzard has said they are.

    So yes, the lore arguments weren't relevant once Blizzard decided to maintain the faction wall, as a retcon would not be required.
    Again, numbers mean nothing in this game.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  13. #3793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet those of us opposed to Alliance High Elves warned that the pro High Elf position rested on persuading Blizzard to implement a gigantic retcon, that the High Elves were a more populous and relevant group than Blizzard has said they are.

    So yes, the lore arguments weren't relevant once Blizzard decided to maintain the faction wall, as a retcon would not be required.
    Then blizz needs to stop showing them as such a strong fighting force. They are not doing what they say.

  14. #3794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    And about that many gnomes got irradiated when Gnomeregan fell, and God only knows how many humans and orcs have died over the years, yet they remain able to pull an infinite number of soldiers out of their arses at a moment's notice.

    Fact it, High Elves are an iconic Alliance race that were given to the Horde, not a Horde race that people are wanting to have given to the Alliance.
    Eighty percent of the Gnomish population died when Gnomeregan fell, they are described as being on the edge of extinction.

    Ninety percent of the High Elven population died when Quel'thalas fell, the Blood Elf survivors are being described as being on the edge of extinction.

    Comparing High Elves and Gnomes is silly. You compare Gnomes to Blood Elves in terms of population size.

    Only one in ten of the surviving High Elves retained the name. If a group nine times their number is described as being on the edge of extinction, then the remaining High Elves are over the edge and rapidly falling.

    As they all they have passed by markers saying 'Quel'lithien destroyed', 'Theramore bombed', 'Casualties during the Purge', 'Casualties on the Isle of Thunder', 'Casualties in Suramar'. They have sustained losses since the fall of QT that they cannot sustain.

  15. #3795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Then blizz needs to stop showing them as such a strong fighting force. They are not doing what they say.
    they never show then as a strong fighting force, is you and the others who are stretching this

  16. #3796
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    In other words a non-answer that still left hope.

    Daz that's the worst answer he could have given, it would have kicked the can down the road and there'd still be no resolution.

    Worse, because his last comment at Blizzcon was that High Elves are already playable, you can't tell me the pro High Elf community wouldn't have immediately hailed such a statement as a big leap forward and that their goal was very possible.

    His answer was a kindness. You probably won't agree, but having a community of people hoping for something that is never going to happen because they are dead set against it and to just keep stringing them along endlessly is a far, far crueller fate than being told upfront, no.
    Well his answer did leave hope for the future.
    I cant remember exactly the words but i quoted them in page 120sh of this thread. It said sonething like everything is possible for the future.

    Although you think it was kindness, for high elf supporters it felt insulting as if they were being mocked by the game director. In his position he should have a more diplomatic approach to these subjects.

    But again this is my opinion.

  17. #3797
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Well his answer did leave hope for the future.
    I cant remember exactly the words but i quoted them in page 120sh of this thread. It said sonething like everything is possible for the future.

    Although you think it was kindness, for high elf supporters it felt insulting as if they were being mocked by the game director. In his position he should have a more diplomatic approach to these subjects.

    But again this is my opinion.
    Well to be blunt, they deserve it. It's been over a fucking decade and now with the addition of Velfs these people not only cry harder but become hostile. Frankly in Ion's place I wouldn't have bothered with an answer.

  18. #3798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Last in, first out as you put it in the second war eventually did fight in wc3 annd have been with the alliance since wrath.
    The group that has been with the Alliance since Wrath has as much right to speak for the High Elves as the Defias Brotherhood has to speak for Humanity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    That is at minimun 15 years if not 30 plus. More then other races. Remember dwarves joined in wc2 as did the gnomes. The gnomes were not seen again till wow if i recall right.

    And prettty sure in wc2 they joined after the humans fled north. Did they even try or know about them in wc1?
    In Warcraft 1 the Kingdom of Stormwind was left to face the Horde alone due to internal politics and a failure to grasp the magnitude of the threat.

    In Warcraft 2 when they realised the threat, Lordaeron gathered the leaders of all the nations in the Eastern Kingdoms and formed the Alliance. The High Elves did not want to join and only sent a token force when a blood oath was invoked by Anduin Lothar, last descendant of King Thoridan who aided the Elves during the Troll Wars.

    The Gnomes were not seen in Warcraft 3 as they sacrificed themselves. The troggs invaded their city at the same time as the Burning Legion invaded. Rather than ask for help from an Alliance busy trying to save the world, the Gnomes decided they would keep the issue a secret so as not to distract their allies at a critical moment and they faced the invasion themselves. As a result they lost their city and 80% of the population.

    The Gnomes' sacrifice helped ensure a mortal victory against the Legion. To say they make less of a contribution to the Alliance than the High Elves is just plain wrong.

  19. #3799
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Well his answer did leave hope for the future.
    I cant remember exactly the words but i quoted them in page 120sh of this thread. It said sonething like everything is possible for the future.

    Although you think it was kindness, for high elf supporters it felt insulting as if they were being mocked by the game director. In his position he should have a more diplomatic approach to these subjects.

    But again this is my opinion.
    He was kind of diplomatic, when he said, "anything is possible in the future." If you take that in context with the fact that he said they had no plans to add high elves and several reasons they felt it was a bad idea, it's really nothing more than a platitude.

  20. #3800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Again, numbers mean nothing in this game.
    Numbers mean everything. Ion brought up numbers AGAIN when talking about High Elves. And it's not just that he mentioned it for the second time, but that this is the fifth or sixth time since WoW's launch a Blizzard source has mentioned population numbers as a negative reason for adding Alliance High Elves.

    Clearly there is something to it regarding the Alliance High Elves if Blizzard is so persistent in bringing it up.

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