Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

The developers have all the right to make the decision they want, that is simply not the issue. Feedback is not about merely giving in to a request, but understanding why people are making the request.

And the calible of Ion's response makes it evident the large of the pro-high elf feedback was simply dismissed without consideration.

"Thanks for your consideration" is a polite response I wish pro high elf people could have given to Ion and Blizz.

I'm not saying they don't have the right to make the game within their vision, but I wouldn't go around reiterating constantly "yeah we'd love to hear players on what they'd like to see" "community interest is a definite factor" etc etc if truly they're just going to go with what they believe feels best in the end.

I mean the fact that they said eye color wasn't enough, but apparently skin color is. So what about wildhammer dwarves? they're pretty much like bronzebeard but with tattoos, that's another request that won't occur? Anyways all this is besides the point. I just really want to see after dark iron, kul'tiran, and potentially sethrak. What races for Alliance will come out and how much hype there will be for them. Or will it continually be new races from there on out for Alliance.

As for your last point, yeah it would've been nice if pro helfers could've said "thanks for your consideration" but in order to do that Ion and Blizz would've had to at least acknowledge the discussions that had been going on.

His response that focused majorly on looks didn't make it seem like any of the feedback had been reached or acknowledged. Can't thank someone for something they didn't do.

Like I said, it just shows me, I don't need to put in a lot of effort at all for what I'd like to see get added to the game. All that's needed is just a mere mention and then it's in the devs' hands from there whether to pick that idea up and run with it or leave it on the shelf.

[Highwhale]

That reminds me that self fulfilling prophecy with tyrande... lets mock them how bad and entitled are they.. Oh, they are indeed behaving badly, i was right all along.

Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.

[Aldo Hawk]

Bias is subjective. I can quote multiple developer and creative sources affirming that Blood Elves are High Elves and therefore a Horde race.

And yes, Gnomes are far more important to the Alliance than the High Elf remnant. Gnomes are present in multiple Alliance settlements. Gnomes provide a valuable service to the Alliance in providing their advanced technology. Gnomes are also a playable Alliance race, that alone makes them far more important the High Elf remnant in the Alliance.

True bias is insisting that non playable Alliance High Elves are more important to the Alliance than the Gnomes, especially considering lorewise what the Gnomes sacrificed for the Alliance.

Is not hard to understand that there are thalassians in the alliance, so they are not exclusively horde.

And while gnomes and goblins provide technology to their respective factions, how much storylines do they have throught the expansions? and in the alliance not only gnomes have the technological role, the dwarfs do their part too. Tell me, what other non playable alliance ally has got screentime as HE? they are not the big force of the alliance, but they are one to take into account.

And just saying that because HE are not that important because they are not playable already is just being unaware of the last years of wow's development, where for a race to be playable it had to be totally new, with 20 levels of quests, 6 recolors of ground mounts and 6 of armored ground mounts, and being prepared to be played for a new player from the start. Allied races changes this a lot.

[Deleted]

Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.

Indeed, they want to be so right they tell us , that we demand things, that we cry if we dont get certain things.. for me it is just discussion about why i think void elves are bad idea and why high elves would be better idea. Of course i want to play high elves, but i never felt that someone owes them to me, as someone try to paint me like that

[Arrashi]

It's really, absolutely hilarious to see so many people getting mad and insulting Ion, calling him ignorant and whatever, when those very people are the first to puke, shit and piss over all logic and reason, let alone the game's lore, in order to get a whim of theirs satisfied. Can't say I'll ever feel particularly sympathetic for High Elf faithfuls of any kind but for sure, concerning these people in particular, I'm nothing but glad of the response Ion gave them (again) because they never deserved, not even once, to have their wishes realized.

"But he insulted us first ! He owes us high elves ! How dare he keep them away from us".

- - - Updated - - -

Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.

You mean how high elf fans decided they "deserve" high elves on alliance ?

[FlubberPuddy]

But that makes no sense. High Elves are physically identical to Blood Elves, save the eyes and even then. Making them different for its own sake, just to justify giving them to the Alliance, is pretty much exactly what the Void Elves are yet people complained about that.

Whereas Nightborne being different from Night Elves is easily explained by the 10 000 years of divergent history and over reliance on Arcane magic.

As I said to another poster. Worgen looked one way for many years in-game until Blizzard decided to make them playable for Alliance, then retroactively changed all existing Worgen to look like the playable Worgen model, while keeping the same "these are werewolves" themes.

Same could've been done with High Elves if the eye color wasn't enough. They have intermingled with "lesser races" and thus it could've been those slight differences that end up showing, as the new Chronicles shows that there were 2700 years of HEs and Humans living together.

And Void Elves are Blood Elves, even Ion re-states this. People wanted the story of High Elves like the Silver Covenant. Void Elves come with none of that. They're literally the same Blood Elves introduced from BC onward and only recently turned Void.

I know that aesthetics are how we see the differences in races but those aesthetic differences are founded in the lore of that race.

Mag'har are brown because they're uncorrupted.
Dark Iron are dark and flame-y because they're living so deep underground near lava and soot.
Lightforged look angelic because of their lightforge journey.
HM Tauren have antlers due to being blessed by Cenarius.

All the aesthetic differences are drawn from a particular story reason, so trying to talk about one without the other doesn't really give the whole picture.

If say Mag'har or Dark Iron had the exact same racials as their existing counterparts then I could see how someone can draw conclusions based on aesthetics only. But here we see it's the story that drives the aesthetics.

Anyways, at this point I know High Elves aren't coming. Doesn't make me enjoy the game any less. As I've said before, it just showed me that organizing support for potential race options when asked to do so, means it's better to just "leave a like" essentially than go through the effort that some of have gone through of creating artwork, showing depictions of their possible implementations etc.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

thats because he don't need to acknowledge wrong points at all

That would mean to agree with the nonsense premise that no one on the High Elf side had any point with any validity. Such impulse simply reveals your deep bias about the issue.

its baffle how people are so over sensitive that everything is "disrespecting"

Why the impulse to call any grievances "over sensitive"? Are you one of those that believes the onus of disrespect lies in the offended? There's something so bizarre about people white-knighting Ion so hard as if his response could not possible be criticized

he just said blood elves are high elves, they are already playable, and if you want play one you can, but in horde

all those points are true, no matter how people tried to work around

you think would be better if he just said: thanks for the effort but they are all meaningless cause they are all wrong

A fact that has nothing to do with why people wanted to play alliance High Elves, who:

-Are alliance.

-Have a specific and relevant faction since Wotlk.

-Keep showing up.

These are simple in game facts, these aren't for debate. What was for debate was if those things were enough to make a race playable, Yet Ion didn't address any of these points, when he could have said:

"The High Elves of the Silver Covenant have been an important part of the alliance storyline as allies, yet years of strife and being present in major conflicts have depleted their numbers considerably, thus they might not be as present in the future. Otherwise, High Elves are a scattered people who have assimilated into other alliance cultures, and will continue to do so." But he didn't.

The MAJOR problem with any notions that "High Elves are extinct" is that they keep showing up. Just stop using them, or use them in a way we KNOW they are disappearing.

That you think that all off the pro helf side arguments can be dismissed is irrelevant to the situation. All Ion had to do was to be sympathetic to the pro helf side and gently let them down.

But you act that even that is asking to much, which is hilarious.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not saying they don't have the right to make the game within their vision, but I wouldn't go around reiterating constantly "yeah we'd love to hear players on what they'd like to see" "community interest is a definite factor" etc etc if truly they're just going to go with what they believe feels best in the end.

I mean the fact that they said eye color wasn't enough, but apparently skin color is. So what about wildhammer dwarves? they're pretty much like bronzebeard but with tattoos, that's another request that won't occur? Anyways all this is besides the point. I just really want to see after dark iron, kul'tiran, and potentially sethrak. What races for Alliance will come out and how much hype there will be for them. Or will it continually be new races from there on out for Alliance.

As for your last point, yeah it would've been nice if pro helfers could've said "thanks for your consideration" but in order to do that Ion and Blizz would've had to at least acknowledge the discussions that had been going on.

His response that focused majorly on looks didn't make it seem like any of the feedback had been reached or acknowledged. Can't thank someone for something they didn't do.

Like I said, it just shows me, I don't need to put in a lot of effort at all for what I'd like to see get added to the game. All that's needed is just a mere mention and then it's in the devs' hands from there whether to pick that idea up and run with it or leave it on the shelf.

That's the issue for me about Ion's answer. Not the "No", but how all the feedback was absolutely worthless and unworthy of being considered. What's the point of asking for feedback and the opinions that players have? It's just dismissive no matter how you put it. If you ask for feedback, and are given it, at least acknowledged it.

Ion seemed to understand that people want high elves, but by his answer, I don't think he understands WHY people want high elves.

[Gerron]

Definitely agree to a point. I don't believe there is some sort of bias here, but it is true that the most requested alliance Allied Races haven't been added, which certainly feeds the perception that Blizz simply is not considering what alliance players request. They don't have to by any means, but it just adds to the perception of bad faith, intentionally or not, which is not good.

Had we had Broken and Wildhammer-even as just cosmetics for Dwarves- the perception that the alliance is being unheard would have been much lower, so the whole Helf movement would be less pissed because it wouldn't me mired in the notion that the alliance as a whole isn't getting what they want.

If HE were the only of the requested races to be a no-go, the request for them would certainly be at least more insular, don't know if less vocal though.

I'm not trying to suggest a bias on Blizzard's part. It's more of a misunderstanding and Blizzard thinking what they gave us instead were more interesting. Void Elves remind me of the Draenei when they were first introduced and it's been hard to shake that thought that we have another race with barely any in game lore that we might not get to explore for several expansions.

[Syegfryed]

That would mean to agree with the nonsense premise that no one on the High Elf side had any point with any validity. Such impulse simply reveals your deep bias about the issue.

no points they ever made had some validity because none of then was based in canon lore, just how lore can be changed, and of course ignoring all the gameplay points against.

Why the impulse to call any grievances "over sensitive"? Are you one of those that the onus of disrespect lies in the offended?

you just stretching the situation, there is literally nothing to be offended

people just become mad cause they efforts - even when people said so - showed meaningless

There's something so bizarre about people white-knighting Ion so hard as if his response could not possible be criticized

ion is a stubborn that talk in that way, he always did, in any subject, why being mad now

A fact that has nothing to do with why people wanted to play alliance High Elves, who:

oh god not this again

But you act that even that is asking to much, which is hilarious.

waiting to play a race who is already playable in the other faction is asking to much

[Zulkhan]

Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.

People so hilarious to say Ion is "ignorant" simply because they're the ones enduring that particular illness do not indeed deserve anything and I'm totally glad they'll not have it their way.

Indeed, they want to be so right they tell us , that we demand things, that we cry if we dont get certain things.. for me it is just discussion about why i think void elves are bad idea and why high elves would be better idea. Of course i want to play high elves, but i never felt that someone owes them to me, as someone try to paint me like that

Why do you feel my judgement on yourself? It's just the extreme need of victimize oneself? I depicted my target quite clearly, you're saying you're not like that and yet you feel personally involved. What's the point.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'm not trying to suggest a bias on Blizzard's part. It's more of a misunderstanding and Blizzard thinking what they gave us instead were more interesting. Void Elves remind me of the Draenei when they were first introduced and it's been hard to shake that thought that we have another race with barely any in game lore that we might not get to explore for several expansions.

I see. It's more about Blizzard being "we have better ideas than the feedback we are being given" which to a point is simply their decision, but yeah, the issue of feedback is important, lest we believe that Blizzard will do what they want regardless of what the playerbase wants.

Which, again, it's up to them, but, it's them who ask feedback.

- - - Updated - - -

no points they ever made had some validity because none of then was based in canon lore, just how lore can be changed, and of course ignoring all the gameplay points against.

oh god not this again

I mean I do know that you are completely dismissive of any pro-high elf point, even the most rudimentary facts. So I do get it's utterly futile to make you understand beyond your bias. Yet, that's not the issue here.

you just stretching the situation, there is literally nothing to be offended

people just become mad cause they efforts - even when people said so - showed meaningless

Deciding WHEN people can be offended and WHY their offense taken is unwarranted. Heh, as if those were things for you to decide. Even so, that the sheer thought that maybe better PR could have made this backlash -this toootally unwarranted backlash according to you- less noticeable is so unfathomable is such a extreme opinion.

ion is a stubborn that talk in that way, he always did, in any subject, why being mad now

Maybe is because pro helfers are too sensitive, maybe because Ion just doesn't understad why people wanted High Elves. Could be a little bit of both.

waiting to play a race who is already playable in the other faction is asking to much

That is not what I asked. I asked if it was too much to ask for a more courteous response than what was given. It's like you can only see the issue as "no/yes" when it's not even what I am discussing.

But I presume that myopia is caused by your hard stance that the high elf side didn't have a single good argument, which while regardless of how particularly silly it is, should had nothing to do with the simple concept of "good PR"

[Syegfryed]

I mean I do know that you are completely dismissive of any pro-high elf point

i didn't dismiss then, blizard did, because they don't matter, is beyond bias

Deciding WHEN people can be offended and WHY their offense taken is unwarranted.

come one, are we rly going down to this path?

so we can choce to be offended by the HE posters and spammers as well? because whatever reasons we chose?

Maybe is because pro helfers are too sensitive, maybe because Ion just doesn't understad why people wanted High Elves. Could be a little bit of both.

or it could be because people become mad because the hope they had, even if meaningless was shattered again, despise their efforts? so they count this as offense/insult?

That is not what I asked. I asked if it was too much to ask for a more courteous response than what was given.

i think it was needed, the response of NO was given in blizzcon, so people start spamming in every platform they could, so a "harsh" Statement was needed, even if i see that just as direct response

[Tussi]

Blizzard is a mother that got one of her children, let's call him Hordey, a toy one day. Blizzard mother gave little Hordey a little pink doll with green eyes. Hordey loved this doll, and played with it for about... 40% of his free time.
But there was a problem, Hordey's twin brother, Alliancebert was insanely jealous of this toy. Alliancebert screamed and cried for his twin brother's toy, saying that it belonged to him and that he deserved it way more than Hordey. After throwing this tantrum for hours, Blizzard mother finally gave in and brought Alliancebert a present. "Open it, Alliancebert, I'm sure you'll love it!" Blizzard mother said, though the tantrum only grew louder and more fierce as Alliancebert threw his new toy across the room. "No! I want what Hordey has!" Alliancebert screeched. "But, son, it's just like your brothers, but it's purple instead of pink. If I give you the same exact toy, wouldn't it not be special any more?" Alliance mother asked, only to be met by more crying and screaming. "No! I want his toy! Give me his toy! It's mine! It's my toy!" Alliancebert cried and cried and cried...

[Deleted]

If those compromises come at the cost of either the visual consistency of the game or the visual and thematic distinctions between the factions, it's just not worth it.



That's just false. The game is much more complex than it was back then, and denying the reality of the present isn't going to make for a compelling argument.



They have their own vision and direction for the game. It's never a good thing when the fans get too much creative control over a product, and it is Blizzard's responsibility to determine where that line is. They're not being douchebags, they're literally just doing their jobs.

lol... all you did was say the opposite of what i said.

Do you call a group of elves a horde? No, no you don't. So, i will dismiss what you said.

It's utter nonsense. The blood elves don't represent the identity of the horde. Nor would they ever as i said. They were on the alliance before... oh, and look even some blood elves defected (void elves) and they were even in talks to join the alliance during MoP. Heck, theres high elves in the alliance right now and they look like blood elves. How can they posibly represent a horde identity?
The logic isn't sound.

But worst of all is them complaining that players are too cynical with feedback, but then they are cynical to this feedback wich is born out of love for their creation and they dismiss it with half assed arguments.
The horde isn't gonna change if the Alliance gets high elves. It will keep the same identity it always had. Didn't see a problem when they added night elves for the horde, yet the opposite is a problem? xD

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

i didn't dismiss then, blizard did, because they don't matter, is beyond bias

So is now Blizzard beyond reproach? we must agree with every decision they make now? Come on, sound less like a fanboy.

Tons of anti High Elf people gave well thought out and comprehensive arguments. Yet it's too much to ask Blizzard to do even a fraction of that? You sound less like you think Blizzard make the best choice and more like you just want to be right, which is such a pointless endeavor.

come one, are we rly going down to this path?

so we can choce to be offended by the HE posters and spammers as well? because whatever reasons we chose?

Seems you didn't understood what I was saying, which is simply, that you don't choose what offends people. If you think that somehow that means you have carte blanche to feign offense to counter, well, that's just silly.

or it could be because people become mad because the hope they had, even if meaningless was shattered again, despise their efforts? so they count this as offense/insult?

It's like the fourth time I have to tell you that is not about the answer being no. Good grief, I don't know how to keep telling you this isn't about the answer being no, I have been pretty clear about what my issue is with Ion's answer.

i think it was needed, the response of NO was given in blizzcon, so people start spamming in every platform they could, so a "harsh" Statement was needed, even if i see that just as direct response

Truly spoken like someone that thinks the pro-helf side had not a single worthy argument, so it's okay to just dismiss them. Which again, regardless of being too biased to function, has nothing to do with thinking that Ion's response itself should have been gentler and actually addressed the points the Pro-Helf side had, which, if we even go by your logic that they had no grounds, would have been easily countered in a short answer.

[Sorrior]

@Tussi i will not even deign that pile of stupid with a quote but i will say this. Make it so "alliancebert" dud not ask fir Hordeys toys but one that was a bit different. He wanted one that lets say was from the same show but maybe an older season.

Instead he gets one that showed up for one episode and he didn't even know existed. He can still enjoy it sure but the other one he has a history with.

Oh and his new purple toy was also a used one his mom got at a second hand storen

Hordey gets all the new best toys alliancenert gets secobd habd ones that is how it acryally feels.

I cannot believe i am even responding yet here we are

[Tussi]

@Tussi i will not even deign that pile of stupid with a quote but i will say this. Make it so "alliancebert" dud not ask fir Hordeys toys but one that was a bit different. He wanted one that lets say was from the same show but maybe an older season.

Instead he gets one that showed up for one episode and he didn't even know existed. He can still enjoy it sure but the other one he has a history with.

Oh and his new purple toy was also a used one his mom got at a second hand storen

Hordey gets all the new best toys alliancenert gets secobd habd ones that is how it acryally feels.

I cannot believe i am even responding yet here we are

Alliancebert cried and cried and cried...

[Deleted]

Blizzard is a mother that got one of her children, let's call him Hordey, a toy one day. Blizzard mother gave little Hordey a little pink doll with green eyes. Hordey loved this doll, and played with it for about... 40% of his free time.
But there was a problem, Hordey's twin brother, Alliancebert was insanely jealous of this toy. Alliancebert screamed and cried for his twin brother's toy, saying that it belonged to him and that he deserved it way more than Hordey. After throwing this tantrum for hours, Blizzard mother finally gave in and brought Alliancebert a present. "Open it, Alliancebert, I'm sure you'll love it!" Blizzard mother said, though the tantrum only grew louder and more fierce as Alliancebert threw his new toy across the room. "No! I want what Hordey has!" Alliancebert screeched. "But, son, it's just like your brothers, but it's purple instead of pink. If I give you the same exact toy, wouldn't it not be special any more?" Alliance mother asked, only to be met by more crying and screaming. "No! I want his toy! Give me his toy! It's mine! It's my toy!" Alliancebert cried and cried and cried...

Sigh... i don't care about high elves but you people just make me want to go to the defense.

Sorry to inform Tussibertey, but said toy belong to the alliancebertey before it was given to hordy.

Though truth be told, that is just dumb Ion logic because High elves are still around in the alliance.

[Syegfryed]

So is now Blizzard beyond reproach? we must agree with every decision they make now? Come on, sound less like a fanboy.

you can dessagre with everything, you have the right to, but again, this don't matter

they make Garrosh the wow hitler, i don't agree with that, it will change something? i could create a lot of points of how that was wrong, how they butcher his character, but is beyond me, i don't make the lore

we don't have to agree, but we accept anyway

Tons of anti High Elf people gave well thought out and comprehensive arguments. Yet it's too much to ask Blizzard to do even a fraction of that? You sound less like you think Blizzard make the best choice and more like you just want to be right, which is such a pointless endeavor.

what fraction of that? the argument is make alliance high elves playable" how you just make a fraction of it? just a fraction of elves playable? just an arm?

blizzard did a better choice, not making then playable, its better for the healthy of the game. it could be better but its good enough

Seems you didn't understood what I was saying, which is simply, that you don't choose what offends people.

and again, just because you get offended don't mean it was mean to be offended or it was offensive at all

It's like the fourth time I have to tell you that is not about the answer being no. Good grief, I don't know how to keep telling you this isn't about the answer being no, I have been pretty clear about what my issue is with Ion's answer.

and what is the fourth time that im telling you that this is all about the no? no matter how he worded people would still bitch about, its human nature

there is no scenario of HE fans saying "ok, yeah, i understand, pack up boys lets move and stop this" he could say in any way and people would still be mad and call him names

Truly spoken like someone that the pro-helf side had not a single worthy argument, so it's okay to just dismiss them.

And gain, i didn't dismiss then, blizzard did,maybe is time to use logic and think that they are not worthy at all?

Which again, regardless of being too biased to function,

the bias goes from both sides, more for the pro-fanbase, i don't even know why you are bringing "bias" up, when alliance claim that they own the elves or the elves belong to then

[Sorrior]

I have seen nobody except anti he crowd try to claim ownership of elves. I have also not seen half as much bias as the anti crowd has