1. #3841
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    are we implying now that he didn't acknowledged?
    I'm literally saying he didn't acknowledge any points made by the pro-helf side. He just doubled down on his previous answer

    maybe because what he said was true no matter how the high movement tried to change with headcanon and fanfics, so there was no need to change hi statement?
    It's baffling how hard for some people is to understand the difference between "being in the right" and "respecting your audience's feedback."

    If you think that his answer is justified by the pro-helf side being in the wrong, you are missing the point I'm making.

    And really, by thinking that this whole HE issue had a wrong/right side is so naive at this point. It's literally just about what the developers want to go for, there were arguments for, there were arguments against, yet people like you still believe somehow one side was "empirically correct." But this is besides the point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    What it showed was, regardless of how much feedback they get, with supporting evidence from in-game. Or even suggestions/compromises that the community themselves could come up with to hope for their race choice to be implemented.

    None of it matters. Even for a topic where they said let us know what you'd like to see. Didn't matter. They have set plans for what they want to do. It makes the whole "tell us" look like complete hogwash. Especially when multiple interviews they laid out the criteria for what factors in when selecting an AR as a candidate, and one of the biggest was community interest.

    They even noticed it was a popular request, regardless of them saying no.

    So really it's a case of "don't even try to be passionate since we already have our own plans"

    Even the newest Sethrak continuation thread on the forums, made after the Q&A. The first few posts give their condolences to the HE group and some talk as if "maybe it's good we're not noticed by the Blues - look what happened to the Helf community" That's a pretty crazy turn around for what people should be saying on the forums.
    The developers have all the right to make the decision they want, that is simply not the issue. Feedback is not about merely giving in to a request, but understanding why people are making the request.

    And the calible of Ion's response makes it evident the large of the pro-high elf feedback was simply dismissed without consideration.

    "Thanks for your consideration" is a polite response I wish pro high elf people could have given to Ion and Blizz.

  2. #3842
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    That certainly wasnt thing which he repeated from blizzcon, i had in mind that population argument
    thats is the problem from you and the others, the population argument is not the only argument

    and just because one argument is not used to A situation don't mean they should not use in B situation

  3. #3843
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    your argument is flawless when we, and with WE i talk both factions, spend most of wow lifetime killing orcs, trolls undeads and elves

    the most recent expansion was about killing orcs, and shitting on orc story

    TBC we prob kill more elves and orcs than actually "demon" i guess

    undeads are the main kill loot in WtlK, with one dungeon now and then

    and of course trolls, the most loot pinata of all races, one troll raid per expansion was not just a meme afterall.

    So, your argument is invalid. For alliance they don't have problem with the "faction wall" because they have no eminent danger of one of their races going to horde, this problem is only for the horde and then alone, screw then

    And of course they( only the ones who want HE prob) don't care about the faction wall if this mean getting what they desire, selfish? maybe, i bet alliance players would not want lose dwarfs and humans to the horde in the trade.
    I wouldn´t have mind giving dark iron in exchange for high elves, we´ve been fighting them since vanilla anyway so it was odd to me having some of them as allies in cataclysm. I can say the same about defias or alterac human.

    Truth is I've always found nonsensical the faction wall, specially after WC III Reing of Chaos and Frozen Throne, my first tought when I played WoW on WoTLK and found the races were locked behind two factions was "WTH didn´t got over this stupid thing in WC II?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Andromedes View Post
    Welcome to the Alliance, faction of compromises and unfulfilled desires. Want Vrykul? Here is compromise in form of kul tiran half giants we never heard of. Wanna High elves? Here is compromise in form of void elves we never heard of. Wanna broken draenei? awww fuck it
    About ganking ("world pvp") being dead now
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Maybe you could wear a mask and push over little kids while they walk home from school instead?

  4. #3844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats is the problem from you and the others, the population argument is not the only argument

    and just because one argument is not used to A situation don't mean they should not use in B situation
    So you agree that ion's words arent holy and that he can be sometimes wrong,even though he is god

  5. #3845
    Banned Highwhale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Who exist as a fraction of the main race.

    Again, you do not deserve high elves, nor is Blizzard expected to cater to you being unable to move on with the story.

    You talk of headcanon and yet pretend as if high elves are something you are owed.
    Speaking of irony...

  6. #3846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    blood elves are what we see ingame, exactly the same as high elves


    its not me, its the HE crowd who suggest that, for then hairstyle and tattoos is enough



    i suggest white eyes, the sign of no magic, but guess what? only blue eyes is ok




    again this come up the argument of horde players wanting maghar orcs from outland, but with changing facial structure and another idle, thats just nonsense to back up your desire


    it was exactly what i suggest, skinny( slightly changed in the body who could mean another idle) pale skin( not void elf like) and white eyes due to the withdraw of magic

    but again, no, people want an enhanced model of BE/HE who don't make then different enough like many times i see in the topic

    there is even the suggest of half-elves, so they would look bulkier than normal elves, due to human blood, but people don't want it, they only want pure elves



    you don't need to prove yourself right when you didn't even try to be right



    high elves and nightborne work in the same way, without a source of magic their body become weak, and could lead to sequelae, its the addiction their share since they were highborne. its jut like eating, if you don't eat enough or don't eat at all,you become weak, more fragile, skinny, not bulky

    the frozen throne campaign kael stated his kin is becoming weak, fragile, with the hunger, their eyes become white cause they have no magic to feed, the exiled elves from lorthemar stated the same thing, and the relief they felt when Sunwell came back
    Atleast you are being kind of constructive...

    But just one thing, i didn't saw any evidence of nightborne getting sick for suck too much mana, and high elves transforms into wretched when they suck too much.

  7. #3847
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerron View Post
    I think there is a larger issue underlying all of this. Alliance players haven't really gotten the Allied races they have asked for. Dark Iron when people have been requesting Wildhammer. Lightforged Draenei instead of Broken. Void Elves instead of High Elves. There are good reasons why they didn't go with what players asked for but it does give off the sense that Blizzard isn't really listening to Alliance player requests. The issue now is that we won't be getting Broken or Wildhammer.
    Definitely agree to a point. I don't believe there is some sort of bias here, but it is true that the most requested alliance Allied Races haven't been added, which certainly feeds the perception that Blizz simply is not considering what alliance players request. They don't have to by any means, but it just adds to the perception of bad faith, intentionally or not, which is not good.

    Had we had Broken and Wildhammer-even as just cosmetics for Dwarves- the perception that the alliance is being unheard would have been much lower, so the whole Helf movement would be less pissed because it wouldn't me mired in the notion that the alliance as a whole isn't getting what they want.

    If HE were the only of the requested races to be a no-go, the request for them would certainly be at least more insular, don't know if less vocal though.

  8. #3848
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I'm literally saying he didn't acknowledge any points made by the pro-helf side. He just doubled down on his previous answer
    thats because he don't need to acknowledge wrong points at all
    It's baffling how hard for some people is to understand the difference between "being in the right" and "respecting your audience's feedback."
    its baffle how people are so over sensitive that everything is "disrespecting"

    he just said blood elves are high elves, they are already playable, and if you want play one you can, but in horde

    all those points are true, no matter how people tried to work around

    you think would be better if he just said: thanks for the effort but they are all meaningless cause they are all wrong

  9. #3849
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    It's really, absolutely hilarious to see so many people getting mad and insulting Ion, calling him ignorant and whatever, when those very people are the first to puke, shit and piss over all logic and reason, let alone the game's lore, in order to get a whim of theirs satisfied. Can't say I'll ever feel particularly sympathetic for High Elf faithfuls of any kind but for sure, concerning these people in particular, I'm nothing but glad of the response Ion gave them (again) because they never deserved, not even once, to have their wishes realized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  10. #3850
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    So you agree that ion's words arent holy and that he can be sometimes wrong,even though he is god
    no, i agree that one argument can be used for a thing, but cannot used for others, there is exceptions for a rule

    the void elf is the exception cause others reasons.

  11. #3851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    I think he has never played alliance not really and doesn't realize just how much HE are used/thrown in our faces
    I did not had to play in the alliance to see this, as i said before, i never leveled more than 20 levels in alliance, i am horde from 2009.

  12. #3852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highwhale View Post
    Speaking of irony...
    You keep misusing that word.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  13. #3853
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    People were also willing to have High Elves come using the Human skeleton or Night skeleton approach if using the Blood Elf skeleton/model was the biggest issue. The fact Ion's answer didn't seem to take into consideration, which was known for several months is what I believe led to a lot of people not appreciating the way he answered.

    His answer didn't seem to take the discussion that had been going on for months, it more seemed like an answer to communicating that "high elves need to be in now!" when also the other well known high elf discussion topic said in big bold that I guess people didn't read at all: they understood high elves would come much later after other playable races got their own version of allied races (goblin/worgen/undead/gnomes).
    But that makes no sense. High Elves are physically identical to Blood Elves, save the eyes and even then. Making them different for its own sake, just to justify giving them to the Alliance, is pretty much exactly what the Void Elves are yet people complained about that.

    Whereas Nightborne being different from Night Elves is easily explained by the 10 000 years of divergent history and over reliance on Arcane magic.

  14. #3854
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    The thalassian elves are not an integral part of the identity of the Alliance. How can they be when only a tiny number of them exist on the Alliance faction?
    They were present long before Silvermoon's finally came out of the shadows in TBC, and joined the Horde. They didn't pack up and go back to Silvermoon, they stuck with Jaina/Vereesa and other separate groups.

    At a first glace, it might seem odd, given Garithos and all, then again, Stormwind/Theramore are entirely different political entities. Just because Garithos's clique tried to purge them up in Lordaeron does not extend to the other human nations.

    And they were called upon in war with the Horde ever since. Like I said before, it's a similar status as the Pandaren. The race is present in both factions, and either considers the other an enemy.

    Their efforts as significant as any of the other members of the Alliance, to not count them alongside Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen, Night Elves, Draenei, and Void Elves would be quite the disservice to the High Elves.

  15. #3855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    It's really, absolutely hilarious to see so many people getting mad and insulting Ion, calling him ignorant and whatever, when those very people are the first to puke, shit and piss over all logic and reason, let alone the game's lore, in order to get a whim of theirs satisfied. Can't say I'll ever feel particularly sympathetic for High Elf faithfuls of any kind but for sure, concerning these people in particular, I'm nothing but glad of the response Ion gave them (again) because they never deserved, not even once, to have their wishes realized.
    That reminds me that self fulfilling prophecy with tyrande... lets mock them how bad and entitled are they.. Oh, they are indeed behaving badly, i was right all along.

  16. #3856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    You keep misusing that word.
    Ofcourse you start to play your favorite game "what this word mean and how you uneducated ape wrongly using it". Huh. Nothing new I see.

  17. #3857
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    The developers have all the right to make the decision they want, that is simply not the issue. Feedback is not about merely giving in to a request, but understanding why people are making the request.

    And the calible of Ion's response makes it evident the large of the pro-high elf feedback was simply dismissed without consideration.

    "Thanks for your consideration" is a polite response I wish pro high elf people could have given to Ion and Blizz.
    I'm not saying they don't have the right to make the game within their vision, but I wouldn't go around reiterating constantly "yeah we'd love to hear players on what they'd like to see" "community interest is a definite factor" etc etc if truly they're just going to go with what they believe feels best in the end.

    I mean the fact that they said eye color wasn't enough, but apparently skin color is. So what about wildhammer dwarves? they're pretty much like bronzebeard but with tattoos, that's another request that won't occur? Anyways all this is besides the point. I just really want to see after dark iron, kul'tiran, and potentially sethrak. What races for Alliance will come out and how much hype there will be for them. Or will it continually be new races from there on out for Alliance.

    As for your last point, yeah it would've been nice if pro helfers could've said "thanks for your consideration" but in order to do that Ion and Blizz would've had to at least acknowledge the discussions that had been going on.

    His response that focused majorly on looks didn't make it seem like any of the feedback had been reached or acknowledged. Can't thank someone for something they didn't do.

    Like I said, it just shows me, I don't need to put in a lot of effort at all for what I'd like to see get added to the game. All that's needed is just a mere mention and then it's in the devs' hands from there whether to pick that idea up and run with it or leave it on the shelf.

  18. #3858
    Banned Highwhale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    That reminds me that self fulfilling prophecy with tyrande... lets mock them how bad and entitled are they.. Oh, they are indeed behaving badly, i was right all along.
    Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.

  19. #3859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Bias is subjective. I can quote multiple developer and creative sources affirming that Blood Elves are High Elves and therefore a Horde race.

    And yes, Gnomes are far more important to the Alliance than the High Elf remnant. Gnomes are present in multiple Alliance settlements. Gnomes provide a valuable service to the Alliance in providing their advanced technology. Gnomes are also a playable Alliance race, that alone makes them far more important the High Elf remnant in the Alliance.

    True bias is insisting that non playable Alliance High Elves are more important to the Alliance than the Gnomes, especially considering lorewise what the Gnomes sacrificed for the Alliance.
    Is not hard to understand that there are thalassians in the alliance, so they are not exclusively horde.

    And while gnomes and goblins provide technology to their respective factions, how much storylines do they have throught the expansions? and in the alliance not only gnomes have the technological role, the dwarfs do their part too. Tell me, what other non playable alliance ally has got screentime as HE? they are not the big force of the alliance, but they are one to take into account.

    And just saying that because HE are not that important because they are not playable already is just being unaware of the last years of wow's development, where for a race to be playable it had to be totally new, with 20 levels of quests, 6 recolors of ground mounts and 6 of armored ground mounts, and being prepared to be played for a new player from the start. Allied races changes this a lot.

  20. #3860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highwhale View Post
    Yea its fun how some posters acts like they decide if you people "deserve" something in video game. Or just "deserve" something in video game. LMAO.
    Indeed, they want to be so right they tell us , that we demand things, that we cry if we dont get certain things.. for me it is just discussion about why i think void elves are bad idea and why high elves would be better idea. Of course i want to play high elves, but i never felt that someone owes them to me, as someone try to paint me like that

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