Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

Perculia is extremely biased towards the Alliance, to the point it clouds her judgment. Back in Zandalari paladin days, she simultaneously reported that when class lists were datamined for the Dark Iron dwarves and the Zandalari, that the Dark Iron one wasn't complete, but the Zandalari one was. She even went as far as to write an article about "Why Zandalari can't be paladins." It was ridiculous, but a lot of people read it and were misinformed. This article is no better than the Taliesin and Evitel video; they all ignore the actual problem. In the entirety of that article, her only use of the word "faction" is for potential sources for High Elves. I don't know how she can even claim to be presenting the arguments both for and against when she fails to mention the single most significant argument of one side.

What is that single most significant argument of one side? blood elves are high elves? please you can come up with something better...

[bloodmoth13]

Honestly i also want Forest Trolls and Ogres(isn't the new race Forest trolls? I mean not amani but clearly the same type of troll)

Again all that is missing for horde is ogres and you get a full whose who of classic horde and horde requests

Nah zandalari were introduced in wow and only got their models in MoP, tall and skinny with straight back, in warcraft II the horde allied with forest trolls (amani) who are the bulky green ones. jungle trolls were introduced in warcraft III who are the hunched blue ones (playable ones). forest trolls arent in the horde atm, would be a similar request to high elves, horde will have 2 troll races with zandalari, 3 might seem like overkill for some but id love amani trolls "FOR ZULJIN!"

I never wanted ogres till allied races were announced, because i thought alliance would get something better in exchange (back when races were rare) but with allied races, ogres i think are probably one of the top options.

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Void Elves were specifically designed so they wouldn't become too popular. Blizzard clearly doesn't want them to threaten Blood Elf or Night-Elf popularity.

I think Lightforged Elves (with grey skin & golden tattoos like Lightforged Draenei so they would look distinctly different) would have been accepted by the community, especially if they had been transformed High Elves. It would have been seen as an evolution of High Elves rather than a degradation of Blood Elves. The Void theme could been given to the Alliance in the form of Krokul lead by Alleria. It would been a way to give playable Broken to the Alliance which have been high on the list of requested playable races for a long time. It would have added more diversity to the Alliance since Lightforged Draenei are nothing but slightly more Holy Draenei compared to the standard Light-themed Draenei and basically just customization options without additional lore or future story perspective.

I dont really think they were designed to be unpopular, they look like they took the most popular race in the game, then made them edgier. Edgy things are popular by default, so its like they wanted to make everyone play one, i think the pure asspull nature of them turned players off, but id be surprised if they dont become extremely popular.
Yeah i feel like lightforged high elves would have been much more accepted, especially if it were just high elves. it annoys the crap out of me that void elves are ex-blood elves, they could have just made them high elf pilgrims. I honestly dont think a void themed race suits the alliance in the first place though.

[Zli]

Disscusion still going on after high elves being throwed in dumpster by our lord and saviour Ion Hazzikostas.You people should gather and make some protests with flags saying "we aliance golden boys want and demand high elves" right in front of blizzard headquarters and show them that you are serious!!!That will teach them a lesson .

[bloodmoth13]

How often do we have to explain it is not about the look. But the past and history

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Honestly i would also say Shaman is a definite no go. And warlocks are very stretching it to me.

Druids too buut i can see it only so far as a nature mage similar to tauren paladins being sun druids. Buut pushing it i admit.

Its a hell of a stretch. also 'nature mage' just opens up a floodgate that does not need opening! I think being more restrictive on the classes is a good idea moving forward.

[protip]

What is that single most significant argument of one side? blood elves are high elves? please you can come up with something better...

Obviously it's the faction distinction. No need to feign ignorance, you've been here long enough to know.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions

there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions

And so, the Void Elf angle... was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance

The entirety of his answer was about keeping the factions different. If an article fails to mention that much, it's absolute garbage reporting. The wowhead article is an opinion piece claiming to be news; it's completely dishonest.

As I said, turn it round. Make the new model for the Blood Elves to reflect them changing due to their Light infused Sunwell, and leave the High Elves with the old model with blue eyes. That way they spent their time on a Core Horde race model, and the left overs go to the Alliance. At which point the Alliance has both versions on the old elf model while the Horde has the superior new elf model.

If you remember how careful they were not to change the old models when they upgraded them back in WoD, I think you know something like this isn't on the table.

[bloodmoth13]

Obviously it's the faction distinction. No need to feign ignorance, you've been here long enough to know.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions

there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions

And so, the Void Elf angle... was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance

*sigh*
The alliance arent asking for blood elves, they want high elves, the elves that were always loyal to the alliance. if they arent giving them that and they are just going to insist that high elves === blood elves, then all remaining high elven groups should merge with the blood elves. that will be the end of it. as it stands though, high elves exist, they are separate, and they are not playable.

[Aldo Hawk]

Obviously it's the faction distinction. No need to feign ignorance, you've been here long enough to know.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions

there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions

And so, the Void Elf angle... was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance

The entirety of his answer was about keeping the factions different. If an article fails to mention that much, it's absolute garbage reporting. The wowhead article is an opinion piece claiming to be news; it's completely dishonest.



If you remember how careful they were not to change the old models when they upgraded them back in WoD, I think you know something like this isn't on the table.

But can anyone bloody say why is this going to hurt that much the faction identities? are you people just unaware that for something as HE or any playable race, it just doesn't come with a total copy/paste?

Goddamit the same crap again...

[FlubberPuddy]

*sigh*
The alliance arent asking for blood elves, they want high elves, the elves that were always loyal to the alliance. if they arent giving them that and they are just going to insist that high elves === blood elves, then all remaining high elven groups should merge with the blood elves. that will be the end of it. as it stands though, high elves exist, they are separate, and they are not playable.

Thank you. I think some anti-folks still aren't getting it. It's clear Ion didn't since in his example he still says "Void Elf angle... was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf"

Ding ding ding Ion, there's the word. We don't want Blood Elves. We want the Quel'dorei. The High Elves. The children of noble birth, not the children of blood.

[Ithekro]

"Blood Elves are essentially High Elves" (you know its coming).

That is true. Blood Elves were High Elves before they renamed themselves.

But High Elves are not Blood Elves. Otherwise there wouldn't be an group that is defined as High Elves, by the game itself, in the Alliance and listed as allies of the Alliance.

As to Void Elves, the game clearly defines them as Blood Elves that have been changed by the Void. Repeat Blood Elves.

Void Elves are essentially High Elves as well....this is also true. They are also essentially Blood Elves, which is also true. But Blood Elves are not Void Elves, and High Elves are not Void Elves.

[Deleted]

A lot of people dont know, that there are high elves on the alliance side, and immediately say, that we want horde race, and they compare it to "how would you react if horde players wanted humans like Anduin"
Really incomparable, because humans, nor gnomes, nor dwarves, nor night elves, nor draenei, nor worgen dont work for the horde and are not members of any organization, that would support their membership in the horde..

If dark irons were written differently, or if alterac humans showed some connection to horde, i would gladly support it, because even though humans are humans, blizzard is showing lately, that they can differentiate appearance of every kingdom, every culture.. So i dont know why is it such a big problem in high elven case.

[protip]

*sigh*
The alliance arent asking for blood elves, they want high elves, the elves that were always loyal to the alliance. if they arent giving them that and they are just going to insist that high elves === blood elves, then all remaining high elven groups should merge with the blood elves. that will be the end of it. as it stands though, high elves exist, they are separate, and they are not playable.

But can anyone bloody say why is this going to hurt that much the faction identities? are you people just unaware that for something as HE or any playable race, it just doesn't come with a total copy/paste?

Goddamit the same crap again...

If Blood Elves are supposed to be High Elves with green eyes, how can High Elves be more than Blood Elves with a different eye color? That's why it matters that Blood Elves are basically High Elves; they have a dependent relationship that is not significantly different. Any changes to one cause either lore or visual inconsistencies, unless something happens driving the story of High Elves in a different direction. Void corruption, for example. Unlike Kul'tirans and Zandalari and Dark Irons etc etc, the difference has to be large enough to cross faction lines. Given the very short history of the split between Blood Elves and High Elves, coming up with a reason to explain the sudden change isn't difficult, but separates High Elves from the pure, simple, uncorrupted ideal that most High Elf fans share.

Just to be clear, becoming more tribal doesn't make sense, because the High Elves already progressed past that point before they split from the Blood Elves. There has to be a change after that split, or you're effectively asking for a retcon of one of the most popular stories in the game. Unless you can solve that problem, it's going to keep coming up, because that is the actual obstacle here.

[FlubberPuddy]

A lot of people dont know, that there are high elves on the alliance side, and immediately say, that we want horde race, and they compare it to "how would you react if horde players wanted humans like Anduin"
Really incomparable, because humans, nor gnomes, nor dwarves, nor night elves, nor draenei, nor worgen dont work for the horde and are not members of any organization, that would support their membership in the horde..

If dark irons were written differently, or if alterac humans showed some connection to horde, i would gladly support it, because even though humans are humans, blizzard is showing lately, that they can differentiate appearance of every kingdom, every culture.. So i dont know why is it such a big problem in high elven case.

This is true, I've asked for Horde players to show me the equivalent to what the Silver Covenant is to the Alliance: A consistent group of an unplayable race that is faction-aligned to the Alliance and progresses the overall WoW narrative with the Alliance through multiple expansions.

All you get are tumbleweeds flowing by, because there actually isn't a group on Horde equivalent to the likes of the Silver Covenant.

[Ithekro]

This is true, I've asked for Horde players to show me the equivalent to what the Silver Covenant is to the Alliance: A consistent group of an unplayable race that is faction-aligned to the Alliance and progresses the overall WoW narrative with the Alliance through multiple expansions.

All you get are tumbleweeds flowing by, because there actually isn't a group on Horde equivalent to the likes of the Silver Covenant.

And that is entirely Blizzard's fault. They made this mess. They don't want to own up to it. They would rather ignore it. Save when they need them fore storytelling.

[Blayze]

Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

[bowlink]

Ding ding ding Ion, there's the word. We don't want Blood Elves. We want the Quel'dorei. The High Elves. The children of noble birth, not the children of blood.

Its well established that Ion is out of touch as a game dev. Best example was his commend on european forums during the 20 year anniversary of blizzard. People rightly then called bullshit and he had to issue a formal apoligy. And high elves fans a rightly calling bullshit now, because his logic us flawed. And his callous commend at the end shows he didn't even give a second passing glance. Its like hanging a suggestion box that feeds into a paper schredder. And its unbecoming of a game dev

[Syegfryed]

*sigh*
The alliance arent asking for blood elves, they want high elves,

the problem is that the race is already playable

they will not put the same race playable again, just because the other factions have some of npcs of it, because of the reasons already explined

it doesn't matter if they are not the same group, or they think different, they still are the same race, with the same fantasie, with the same biology, with the same aesthetics and appearance.

So if the race is already playable in the horde, its a horde race

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Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

it would not, horde players are more conformed

im the most advocate for ogres, and i would not care if they become alliance, they being playable it what would matter

eventually the horde would get void ogres from another planet

[Deleted]

Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

But we can give you Void ogres, totally different thing, that wont blur faction lines, but also satisfying compromise. You remember ChoGal? He was the first void ogre and the new void ogres are his disciples, who realized, they dont want to see the whole world burn, so they joined horde. Their city would consist of one tent and no name lore characters.

it would not, horde players are more conformed

I also heard, that the horde players are more mature and are not entitled brats. What a faction to play.

[bloodmoth13]

the problem is that the race is already playable

they will not put the same race playable again, just because the other factions have some of npcs of it, because of the reasons already explined

it doesn't matter if they are not the same group, or they think different, they still are the same race, with the same fantasie, with the same biology, with the same aesthetics and appearance.

So if the race is already playable in the horde, its a horde race

They arent the same fantasy at all. High elves are loyal to the alliance and from what i understand werent in silvermoon when it was destroyed by arthas. Blood elves did whatever was necessary to slake their magic addiction, high elves did not. Also same race being playable wasnt a problem for pandaren, and its not a problem for high elves. I dont even want one, i wouldnt care if they were all added to the horde, but i think that having them exist as a separate race within the alliance is just causing a ton of problems and blizzard is handling it very poorly.

[Ithekro]

Given the very short history of the split between Blood Elves and High Elves, coming up with a reason to explain the sudden change isn't difficult, but separates High Elves from the pure, simple, uncorrupted ideal that most High Elf fans share.

Just to be clear, becoming more tribal doesn't make sense, because the High Elves already progressed past that point before they split from the Blood Elves. There has to be a change after that split, or you're effectively asking for a retcon of one of the most popular stories in the game. Unless you can solve that problem, it's going to keep coming up, because that is the actual obstacle here.

Well you can make the Blood Elves more pure with their empowered Sunwell. The High Elves never had that before it was destroyed, and the High Elves don't live around it anymore. Therefore, if the fel corrupted part of Silvermoon can finally be flushed out (Rommath's reconstruction needs purging), than they can bath fully in the Light and be renewed as Velen suggested. Wash away the blood of their past and become Light Elves or Sun Elves.

[Jeldoba]

He was kind of diplomatic, when he said, "anything is possible in the future." If you take that in context with the fact that he said they had no plans to add high elves and several reasons they felt it was a bad idea, it's really nothing more than a platitude.

Don't forget the part where he said "This is our stance. Collective, more than one, yet all the burden of blame falls on one man.