Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Blayze]

Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

[bowlink]

Ding ding ding Ion, there's the word. We don't want Blood Elves. We want the Quel'dorei. The High Elves. The children of noble birth, not the children of blood.

Its well established that Ion is out of touch as a game dev. Best example was his commend on european forums during the 20 year anniversary of blizzard. People rightly then called bullshit and he had to issue a formal apoligy. And high elves fans a rightly calling bullshit now, because his logic us flawed. And his callous commend at the end shows he didn't even give a second passing glance. Its like hanging a suggestion box that feeds into a paper schredder. And its unbecoming of a game dev

[Syegfryed]

*sigh*
The alliance arent asking for blood elves, they want high elves,

the problem is that the race is already playable

they will not put the same race playable again, just because the other factions have some of npcs of it, because of the reasons already explined

it doesn't matter if they are not the same group, or they think different, they still are the same race, with the same fantasie, with the same biology, with the same aesthetics and appearance.

So if the race is already playable in the horde, its a horde race

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

it would not, horde players are more conformed

im the most advocate for ogres, and i would not care if they become alliance, they being playable it what would matter

eventually the horde would get void ogres from another planet

[Deleted]

Imagine if a bunch of ogres betrayed the Horde and went to the Alliance, and then a few years down the line they were made playable for Alliance players.

Horde players then kick up a fuss, and Ion says that there's no way they can give the Horde an Alliance race like ogres.

A bunch of people in here would be singing a very different tune.

But we can give you Void ogres, totally different thing, that wont blur faction lines, but also satisfying compromise. You remember ChoGal? He was the first void ogre and the new void ogres are his disciples, who realized, they dont want to see the whole world burn, so they joined horde. Their city would consist of one tent and no name lore characters.

it would not, horde players are more conformed

I also heard, that the horde players are more mature and are not entitled brats. What a faction to play.

[bloodmoth13]

the problem is that the race is already playable

they will not put the same race playable again, just because the other factions have some of npcs of it, because of the reasons already explined

it doesn't matter if they are not the same group, or they think different, they still are the same race, with the same fantasie, with the same biology, with the same aesthetics and appearance.

So if the race is already playable in the horde, its a horde race

They arent the same fantasy at all. High elves are loyal to the alliance and from what i understand werent in silvermoon when it was destroyed by arthas. Blood elves did whatever was necessary to slake their magic addiction, high elves did not. Also same race being playable wasnt a problem for pandaren, and its not a problem for high elves. I dont even want one, i wouldnt care if they were all added to the horde, but i think that having them exist as a separate race within the alliance is just causing a ton of problems and blizzard is handling it very poorly.

[Ithekro]

Given the very short history of the split between Blood Elves and High Elves, coming up with a reason to explain the sudden change isn't difficult, but separates High Elves from the pure, simple, uncorrupted ideal that most High Elf fans share.

Just to be clear, becoming more tribal doesn't make sense, because the High Elves already progressed past that point before they split from the Blood Elves. There has to be a change after that split, or you're effectively asking for a retcon of one of the most popular stories in the game. Unless you can solve that problem, it's going to keep coming up, because that is the actual obstacle here.

Well you can make the Blood Elves more pure with their empowered Sunwell. The High Elves never had that before it was destroyed, and the High Elves don't live around it anymore. Therefore, if the fel corrupted part of Silvermoon can finally be flushed out (Rommath's reconstruction needs purging), than they can bath fully in the Light and be renewed as Velen suggested. Wash away the blood of their past and become Light Elves or Sun Elves.

[Jeldoba]

He was kind of diplomatic, when he said, "anything is possible in the future." If you take that in context with the fact that he said they had no plans to add high elves and several reasons they felt it was a bad idea, it's really nothing more than a platitude.

Don't forget the part where he said "This is our stance. Collective, more than one, yet all the burden of blame falls on one man.

[Syegfryed]

They arent the same fantasy at all.

except they are, same cliche elf of fantasie, the elf mage, the elf archer blablabla

High elves are loyal to the alliance and from what i understand werent in silvermoon when it was destroyed by arthas.

thats not entirely true, not all HE were "loyal" to the alliance, just some rare exceptions, most of then just goes to the alliance cause they were kicked out by lorthemar cause they are causing a mess, refusing to drain mana from mana wyrms

the entire "loyal" to the alliance is headcanon from HE fans, elves in general didn't give a damn about the alliance, and things just got worse with time

Also same race being playable wasnt a problem for pandaren,

2 wrongs don't make 1 right, they were acknowledge pandaren neutral was a mistake, and they would not do it again

and there is a big difference of being introduced neutral, and being introduced as horde race then 13 years after that give to alliance.

another alliance race should become neutral like the elves, like alterac humans.

and still this is bad, damage the factions. In a faction based game races should not be swapped every time ( they should not even be shared at all) faction wall is a thing who should stay factual.

but i think that having them exist as a separate race within the alliance is just causing a ton of problems and blizzard is handling it very poorly.

there is no problem at all, just the spam, and they could stop if they want

I also heard, that the horde players are more mature and are not entitled brats. What a faction to play.

taking by this thread we could rly think that....strange

btw, no, just more conformed, they shit on horde lore since the beginning and we are not spamming GD all the time

[Deleted]

are you sure? all i see is threads about sylvanas, and why is horde bad again

[Jeldoba]

They arent the same fantasy at all. High elves are loyal to the alliance and from what i understand werent in silvermoon when it was destroyed by arthas. Blood elves did whatever was necessary to slake their magic addiction, high elves did not. Also same race being playable wasnt a problem for pandaren, and its not a problem for high elves. I dont even want one, i wouldnt care if they were all added to the horde, but i think that having them exist as a separate race within the alliance is just causing a ton of problems and blizzard is handling it very poorly.

This is the exact source of contention, people are hung up on "Those that stayed" and have convinced themselves that those same elves are vastly different in all respects. when the BLOOD elves where doing the same damn thing less than 2 decades ago. Yet "blood elves can't be high elves!" Please. The whole life draining thing itself is attributed to ONE npc saying they don't do that. One. While individuals may claim they are high elves while their bretheren who where to close to the Sunwell when it poofed arn't, but this is a fallicious arguement.

The pretense is the problem.

People, in real life, who become addicted to something don't cease being people because they slack that addiction.

The mutations caused by arcane, fel, hell any type of magic in the Warcraft universe is corrupting. High elves didn't escape this. most (See Silver Covenant) where in Dalaran to begin with. Lack of proximity towards the Sunwell, AND being able to slack their thirst on the efforts of the Kirin Tor has become the grounds for the "HE vs BE" debate. Sprinkle in what references blizzard has put in for flavor and people have lost their minds.

EVEN if they by some miracle had a breeding population to perpetuate this fantasy, they would be considered children with every elven trope that exists due to innate longevity. While some individuals may be all about "FOR THE ALLIANCE!", NO race would send what amounts to their teenagers out to die vs rebuilding the species. Yet lets throw that logic out the window cause "mah high elves, qq"

[Syegfryed]

are you sure? all i see is threads about sylvanas, and why is horde bad again

i didn't say horde didn't cry, they do, from time to time. for every horde whining thread(with any subject) we have like 5 about high elves alone

[Deleted]

People, in real life, who become addicted to something don't cease being people because they slack that addiction.

Well, people who eat and workout more also dont cease to be humans. Yet we have wasted allied race slot on kul tirans

i didn't say horde didn't cry, they do, from time to time. for every horde whining thread(with any subject) we have like 5 about high elves alone

if blizz told you, that horde was never intended to be good and that if you want to be good, just roll alliance, yes that would also trigger big outcry

[protip]

Well you can make the Blood Elves more pure with their empowered Sunwell. The High Elves never had that before it was destroyed, and the High Elves don't live around it anymore. Therefore, if the fel corrupted part of Silvermoon can finally be flushed out (Rommath's reconstruction needs purging), than they can bath fully in the Light and be renewed as Velen suggested. Wash away the blood of their past and become Light Elves or Sun Elves.

Fair, but unless they left their old models behind, there's still no space for High Elves. Leaving those models behind would involve changing an existing playable race, and there is no example of that happening. They went through great pains to avoid it in WoD, even trying to match obscure animations from 2004 into the new models so that "they would still feel like your old character."

[Jeldoba]

Yet the Silver Covenant are clearly what they appear to be. A small militia of surviving High Elves gathered by Veressa that serves Dalaran and has been used as a story tool by Blizzard to further the Blood Elf storyline and Jaina's plotline.

While some players may complain that they were shoved in their face every expansion, Blizzard probably felt they had a story they wanted to tell and they weren't beholden to players misinterpreting what the Silver Covenant was.

Been my point since BC / Wrath

[bloodmoth13]

If Blood Elves are supposed to be High Elves with green eyes, how can High Elves be more than Blood Elves with a different eye color? That's why it matters that Blood Elves are basically High Elves; they have a dependent relationship that is not significantly different. Any changes to one cause either lore or visual inconsistencies, unless something happens driving the story of High Elves in a different direction. Void corruption, for example. Unlike Kul'tirans and Zandalari and Dark Irons etc etc, the difference has to be large enough to cross faction lines. Given the very short history of the split between Blood Elves and High Elves, coming up with a reason to explain the sudden change isn't difficult, but separates High Elves from the pure, simple, uncorrupted ideal that most High Elf fans share.

Just to be clear, becoming more tribal doesn't make sense, because the High Elves already progressed past that point before they split from the Blood Elves. There has to be a change after that split, or you're effectively asking for a retcon of one of the most popular stories in the game. Unless you can solve that problem, it's going to keep coming up, because that is the actual obstacle here.

visuals just simply arent important and havent been since MoP. its a pathetic argument to deny high elves because blizz has already crossed that line. also the visuals for most allied races are ridiculously small that they could be considered as mere visual changes for existing races. look at lightforged and highmountain tauren, they are just slight variations on existing races. give high elves alleria-esque facial tattoos and be done with it. seriously thats all it takes for an allied race at this point, or make thier ears point downwards like nightborne.

they could honestly just give the alliance blood elf models with blue eyes and these discussions would shut down, and it would be the easiest win for blizzard ever. alliance already has npcs that look like that so the horde wont exactly be hurt. either that or make the high elves rejoin the blood elves. its bullshit that a race that is supposed to be horde has such a presence in the alliance yet is not playable.

It would be like if blizz gave the alliance ogres, but the stonemaul still hang out with the horde, only worse since blizz made high elven expansion hubs (wotlk)

[Ithekro]

The only mistake they made with the Pandaren being neutral is that they forgot how to make story content for both factions of them. Meaning they pretty much never use Pandaren for anything related to the Alliance or Horde that isn't cooking based, or monk trainers. That's not a problem with the High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves. Those stories already have a clear plot thread going on and it pretty easy to pull on them now.

- - - Updated - - -

Fair, but unless they left their old models behind, there's still no space for High Elves. Leaving those models behind would involve changing an existing playable race, and there is no example of that happening. They went through great pains to avoid it in WoD, even trying to match obscure animations from 2004 into the new models so that "they would still feel like your old character."

The compromise in that situation is that the new improved Blood Elves keep their animations, the old models get their stances change like the Nightborne had their original Night Elf stances changed to what they are now. These changed stances, (I would hope for a more humble looking stance) perhaps using the even older Night Elf version of the model animations, since they still use the modified Night Elf voice files for many of them, would be Alliance High Elves. The hand-me downs of the Elf races to give to the poor Alliance who can't come up with a reasonable Allied Race to save its soul.

You would have two different feeling groups of elves that look similar, but are not identical. They might be the same or similar in color and perhaps hair colors, but they would hold themselves differently and would actually be different models. The Blood Elves, or Sun Elves maybe after they slowly mutate a bit from their new source of power, will keep their arrogant (to my eye) stance....were they look bored with whom ever is in front of them, and sigh every once in a while, like they'd which you'd stop breathing their air. Meanwhile the High Elves (or former High Elves, should they deserve a rename) will not hold themselves up so highly. They might seem tired, or weary. Their stance not as proud looking as others. They know what is happening to them as a people and are accepting it. They might survive, but they will struggle a lot and have to live with the humans, perhaps for many elven generations (which means they will see a lot of their human friends die....even if it is only due to old age....because elves still live a long time without the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell/Nightwell.

The Void Elves will probably keep their present model and stance, since they would be between what will become a Blood Elf/Sun Elf, and the old High Elves. Older model, Blood Elf stances, plus Void stuff.

See, three different groups. Not that hard to imagine.

[Syegfryed]

if blizz told you, that horde was never intended to be good and that if you want to be good, just roll alliance, yes that would also trigger big outcry

you guys are full of false equivalences aren't you

[protip]

The only mistake they made with the Pandaren being neutral is that they forgot how to make story content for both factions of them. Meaning they pretty much never use Pandaren for anything related to the Alliance or Horde that isn't cooking based, or monk trainers. That's not a problem with the High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves. Those stories already have a clear plot thread going on and it pretty easy to pull on them now.

That's definitely a problem with the Pandaren, but it's not the only problem. The other two problems are that the theme and visuals are shared. Perhaps we can't say with certainty that it was only the visual and thematic differences that made Pandaren unsuccessful as a neutral race, but it's also the only example of those things being shared between the two factions. Since Blizzard hasn't repeated the Pandaren in terms of sharing visuals, story, or theme between the two factions, my belief is that they feel it was a failure because of all three aspects.

The compromise in that situation is that the new improved Blood Elves keep their animations, the old models get their stances change like the Nightborne had their original Night Elf stances changed to what they are now. These changed stances, (I would how for a more humble looking stance) perhaps using the even older Night Elf version of the model animations, since they still use the modified Night Elf voice files for many of them, would be Alliance High Elves. The hand-me downs of the Elf races to give to the poor Alliance who can't come up with a reasonable Allied Race to save its soul.

You would have two different feeling groups of elves that look similar, but are not identical. They might be the same or similar in color and perhaps hair colors, but they would hold themselves differently and would actually be different models. The Blood Elves, or Sun Elves maybe after they slowly mutate a bit from their new source of power, will keep their arrogant (to my eye) stance....were they look bored with whom ever is in front of them, and sigh every once in a while, like they'd which you'd stop breathing their air. Meanwhile the High Elves (or former High Elves, should they deserve a rename) will not hold themselves up so highly. They might seem tired, or weary. Their stance not as proud looking as others. They know what is happening to them as a people and are accepting it. They might survive, but they will struggle a lot and have to live with the humans, perhaps for many elven generations (which means they will see a lot of their human friends die....even if it is only due to old age....because elves still live a long time without the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell/Nightwell.

The Void Elves will probably keep their present model and stance, since they would be between what will become a Blood Elf/Sun Elf, and the old High Elves. Older model, Blood Elf stances, plus Void stuff.

See, three different groups. Not that hard to imagine.

I agree that it's an interesting idea, but I don't think changing existing playable races is on the table in any form. Especially if compare how many Blood Elf players would be displaced by such a decision to the popularity of a potential allied race. I mean, obviously that's Blizzard's call, but I just don't see how that would be worth it in the broader sense.

visuals just simply arent important and havent been since MoP. its a pathetic argument to deny high elves because blizz has already crossed that line. also the visuals for most allied races are ridiculously small that they could be considered as mere visual changes for existing races. look at lightforged and highmountain tauren, they are just slight variations on existing races. give high elves alleria-esque facial tattoos and be done with it. seriously thats all it takes for an allied race at this point, or make thier ears point downwards like nightborne.

they could honestly just give the alliance blood elf models with blue eyes and these discussions would shut down, and it would be the easiest win for blizzard ever. alliance already has npcs that look like that so the horde wont exactly be hurt. either that or make the high elves rejoin the blood elves. its bullshit that a race that is supposed to be horde has such a presence in the alliance yet is not playable.

It would be like if blizz gave the alliance ogres, but the stonemaul still hang out with the horde, only worse since blizz made high elven expansion hubs (wotlk)

So... pandas and a comparison between allied races that aren't cross faction (we both know there are bigger differences between night elves and Nightborne than just the ears, and they also have significant lore to explain the changes). They did the panda thing one time, and didn't like it. Do you think they decided that content was bad with no evidence? If so, all you have to do is convince them that pandas were actually successful, and that neutral races are good for the game. Thinking they came to the conclusion that Pandaren weren't successful without any reason is very hard to justify, and considering that they still brought up the faction distinction in the Q&A with specific references to visuals and feel, it's safe to say they still believe that's an issue.

As for the comparison with the Stonemaul, I can at least see where you're coming from. The difference is that Blood Elves have been a Horde race for a long time now, that comparison was only really fair back when Blood Elves were announced. I personally would be willing to accept ogres on the Alliance if that was part of the story Blizzard wanted to tell, but I'm sure people would have complaints. However, I still don't agree that after making them an Alliance race it would make sense to give them to the Horde without significant and obvious visual and thematic differences.

[bloodmoth13]

This is the exact source of contention, people are hung up on "Those that stayed" and have convinced themselves that those same elves are vastly different in all respects. when the BLOOD elves where doing the same damn thing less than 2 decades ago. Yet "blood elves can't be high elves!" Please. The whole life draining thing itself is attributed to ONE npc saying they don't do that. One. While individuals may claim they are high elves while their bretheren who where to close to the Sunwell when it poofed arn't, but this is a fallicious arguement.

The pretense is the problem.

People, in real life, who become addicted to something don't cease being people because they slack that addiction.

The mutations caused by arcane, fel, hell any type of magic in the Warcraft universe is corrupting. High elves didn't escape this. most (See Silver Covenant) where in Dalaran to begin with. Lack of proximity towards the Sunwell, AND being able to slack their thirst on the efforts of the Kirin Tor has become the grounds for the "HE vs BE" debate. Sprinkle in what references blizzard has put in for flavor and people have lost their minds.

EVEN if they by some miracle had a breeding population to perpetuate this fantasy, they would be considered children with every elven trope that exists due to innate longevity. While some individuals may be all about "FOR THE ALLIANCE!", NO race would send what amounts to their teenagers out to die vs rebuilding the species. Yet lets throw that logic out the window cause "mah high elves, qq"

nobody is trying to convince anyone that they are 2 different races, they are 2 separate factions of the same race. blood elves changed their culture after the scourge invasion, the blood elves arent the same as the warcraft II high elves, they have developed a new culture after the destruction of silvermoon. the high elves are remnants of the past who hold on to their traditions. its definitely enough to warrant an allied race, maybe not if they were on the same faction but they would be going to the other faction.

[matrix123mko]

There is petition for adding high elves to game: https://www.change.org/p/high-elven-..._share_initial

And WoWhead article about high elves and Ion's response: http://www.wowhead.com/news=283929/t...an-allied-race