Well, people who eat and workout more also dont cease to be humans. Yet we have wasted allied race slot on kul tirans
if blizz told you, that horde was never intended to be good and that if you want to be good, just roll alliance, yes that would also trigger big outcry
Fair, but unless they left their old models behind, there's still no space for High Elves. Leaving those models behind would involve changing an existing playable race, and there is no example of that happening. They went through great pains to avoid it in WoD, even trying to match obscure animations from 2004 into the new models so that "they would still feel like your old character."
visuals just simply arent important and havent been since MoP. its a pathetic argument to deny high elves because blizz has already crossed that line. also the visuals for most allied races are ridiculously small that they could be considered as mere visual changes for existing races. look at lightforged and highmountain tauren, they are just slight variations on existing races. give high elves alleria-esque facial tattoos and be done with it. seriously thats all it takes for an allied race at this point, or make thier ears point downwards like nightborne.
they could honestly just give the alliance blood elf models with blue eyes and these discussions would shut down, and it would be the easiest win for blizzard ever. alliance already has npcs that look like that so the horde wont exactly be hurt. either that or make the high elves rejoin the blood elves. its bullshit that a race that is supposed to be horde has such a presence in the alliance yet is not playable.
It would be like if blizz gave the alliance ogres, but the stonemaul still hang out with the horde, only worse since blizz made high elven expansion hubs (wotlk)
The only mistake they made with the Pandaren being neutral is that they forgot how to make story content for both factions of them. Meaning they pretty much never use Pandaren for anything related to the Alliance or Horde that isn't cooking based, or monk trainers. That's not a problem with the High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves. Those stories already have a clear plot thread going on and it pretty easy to pull on them now.
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The compromise in that situation is that the new improved Blood Elves keep their animations, the old models get their stances change like the Nightborne had their original Night Elf stances changed to what they are now. These changed stances, (I would hope for a more humble looking stance) perhaps using the even older Night Elf version of the model animations, since they still use the modified Night Elf voice files for many of them, would be Alliance High Elves. The hand-me downs of the Elf races to give to the poor Alliance who can't come up with a reasonable Allied Race to save its soul.
You would have two different feeling groups of elves that look similar, but are not identical. They might be the same or similar in color and perhaps hair colors, but they would hold themselves differently and would actually be different models. The Blood Elves, or Sun Elves maybe after they slowly mutate a bit from their new source of power, will keep their arrogant (to my eye) stance....were they look bored with whom ever is in front of them, and sigh every once in a while, like they'd which you'd stop breathing their air. Meanwhile the High Elves (or former High Elves, should they deserve a rename) will not hold themselves up so highly. They might seem tired, or weary. Their stance not as proud looking as others. They know what is happening to them as a people and are accepting it. They might survive, but they will struggle a lot and have to live with the humans, perhaps for many elven generations (which means they will see a lot of their human friends die....even if it is only due to old age....because elves still live a long time without the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell/Nightwell.
The Void Elves will probably keep their present model and stance, since they would be between what will become a Blood Elf/Sun Elf, and the old High Elves. Older model, Blood Elf stances, plus Void stuff.
See, three different groups. Not that hard to imagine.
Last edited by Ithekro; 2018-04-30 at 09:06 AM.
That's definitely a problem with the Pandaren, but it's not the only problem. The other two problems are that the theme and visuals are shared. Perhaps we can't say with certainty that it was only the visual and thematic differences that made Pandaren unsuccessful as a neutral race, but it's also the only example of those things being shared between the two factions. Since Blizzard hasn't repeated the Pandaren in terms of sharing visuals, story, or theme between the two factions, my belief is that they feel it was a failure because of all three aspects.
I agree that it's an interesting idea, but I don't think changing existing playable races is on the table in any form. Especially if compare how many Blood Elf players would be displaced by such a decision to the popularity of a potential allied race. I mean, obviously that's Blizzard's call, but I just don't see how that would be worth it in the broader sense.The compromise in that situation is that the new improved Blood Elves keep their animations, the old models get their stances change like the Nightborne had their original Night Elf stances changed to what they are now. These changed stances, (I would how for a more humble looking stance) perhaps using the even older Night Elf version of the model animations, since they still use the modified Night Elf voice files for many of them, would be Alliance High Elves. The hand-me downs of the Elf races to give to the poor Alliance who can't come up with a reasonable Allied Race to save its soul.
You would have two different feeling groups of elves that look similar, but are not identical. They might be the same or similar in color and perhaps hair colors, but they would hold themselves differently and would actually be different models. The Blood Elves, or Sun Elves maybe after they slowly mutate a bit from their new source of power, will keep their arrogant (to my eye) stance....were they look bored with whom ever is in front of them, and sigh every once in a while, like they'd which you'd stop breathing their air. Meanwhile the High Elves (or former High Elves, should they deserve a rename) will not hold themselves up so highly. They might seem tired, or weary. Their stance not as proud looking as others. They know what is happening to them as a people and are accepting it. They might survive, but they will struggle a lot and have to live with the humans, perhaps for many elven generations (which means they will see a lot of their human friends die....even if it is only due to old age....because elves still live a long time without the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell/Nightwell.
The Void Elves will probably keep their present model and stance, since they would be between what will become a Blood Elf/Sun Elf, and the old High Elves. Older model, Blood Elf stances, plus Void stuff.
See, three different groups. Not that hard to imagine.
So... pandas and a comparison between allied races that aren't cross faction (we both know there are bigger differences between night elves and Nightborne than just the ears, and they also have significant lore to explain the changes). They did the panda thing one time, and didn't like it. Do you think they decided that content was bad with no evidence? If so, all you have to do is convince them that pandas were actually successful, and that neutral races are good for the game. Thinking they came to the conclusion that Pandaren weren't successful without any reason is very hard to justify, and considering that they still brought up the faction distinction in the Q&A with specific references to visuals and feel, it's safe to say they still believe that's an issue.
As for the comparison with the Stonemaul, I can at least see where you're coming from. The difference is that Blood Elves have been a Horde race for a long time now, that comparison was only really fair back when Blood Elves were announced. I personally would be willing to accept ogres on the Alliance if that was part of the story Blizzard wanted to tell, but I'm sure people would have complaints. However, I still don't agree that after making them an Alliance race it would make sense to give them to the Horde without significant and obvious visual and thematic differences.
Last edited by protip; 2018-04-30 at 09:09 AM.
nobody is trying to convince anyone that they are 2 different races, they are 2 separate factions of the same race. blood elves changed their culture after the scourge invasion, the blood elves arent the same as the warcraft II high elves, they have developed a new culture after the destruction of silvermoon. the high elves are remnants of the past who hold on to their traditions. its definitely enough to warrant an allied race, maybe not if they were on the same faction but they would be going to the other faction.
There is petition for adding high elves to game: https://www.change.org/p/high-elven-..._share_initial
And WoWhead article about high elves and Ion's response: http://www.wowhead.com/news=283929/t...an-allied-race
High Elf and Blood Elf themes are probably getting farther and farther apart the longer they stay not only divided, but also hostile to each other due to the conflict between the Alliance and the Horde. They are becoming more and more two different things. This will only become more noticeable with the renewed Sunwell (the golden eyes for example) verse the older High Elves that aren't around the Sunwell anymore. The Void Elves being a third version between the two in one way, and other the opposite end of the spectrum in another way.
pandas have the exact same culture, it makes it hard to justify having them fight eachother. high elves and blood elves have different culture. its almost the same as the distinction between nightborne and night elves, same race, different cultures. and again, its not the visuals that were the problem with pandaren, its the culture and aesthetics, they are literally the exact same between factions, high elves and blood elves have more distinction than that. So... actually i dont have to prove that pandas were a success because it has literally nothing to do with this.
The high elves have also been a part of the alliance longer than the blood elves horde. even in vanilla wow there were high elves in the alliance. they could add ogres to the alliance now, and in 12 years it would still be fair for the horde to ask for stonemaul ogres for the horde. alliance ogres wouldnt invalidate horde ogres. Heck, lets run up a scenario:
Blizz invent 'blood ogres', they rebranded themselves because of the death of their chieftain who loved poetry or whatever, they completely change their aesthetics and all wear unicorn skins and have a major focus on monks and poetry.
Horde petition to get regular basic ogres on the horde, the good ole fashioned 'big brute' variety.
Blizz then gives horde 'fire ogres' who destroy the blood ogres poetry library and got kicked out after they all suddenly became possessed by fire elements.
Horde point out that its not what they asked for and the stonemauls are still right their, in all their regular ogre glory, they point out that stonemauls have been part of the horde since warcraft III and players have wanted them for a long time.
blizz says "if you want ogres, then the alliance is for you".
when its put this way its painfully obvious what the issue is and why its going to continue to be an issue till alliance high elves are a thing. i know a lot of contributors to this argument havent been able to see things from the 'pro-high elf' point of view, so i hope this 'ogre' analogy can help players see the other side better.
Your explanation is great. I'd like to have blood ogres now. However, there is one thing to complain. Blood elves and their alliance cousins have the same arcane-based culture. The difference is only political. It's like Confederate States and United States. They have different points of view on some subjects and fight eachother but they have the same culture. I think, with their relevance since vanilla, it is enough to make them playable race.
A petition. It's not going to accomplish anything you know because they never have. It's just to satisfy the desperate desire to feel you are doing SOMETHING to change their minds.
If six months of forum spamming didn't communicate how much the pro High Elf community wanted High Elves, a petition is hardly going to make the scales fall from the dev team's eyes.
If they add HE as allied race a big chunk of the Horde population will roll Alliance. I thought people around here would be smart enough to figure out why that would be bad for everyone and the game in general. You got Void Elves. Be happy and move on.
I remember you guys saying that when Blizzard extended the amount of posts you could have on your high elf thread on the WoW forums.
Didn't work out.
Because they can't accept the truth so they prefer living a lie, sadly. But hey, I prefer this thread being active rather than seeing 10 threads a day about High Elves x_x