1. #4021
    Aside from being big Kul Tirans and Ogres share no similarities

    Aside from different colored eyes High Elves and Blood Elves share no differences

    The comparison is dumb

  2. #4022
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Solence View Post
    why isnt the thread getting closed at this point?
    Why would be? because ion repeated the same uneducated arguments from blizzcon, that undermine the very existence of void elves?

    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    Aside from being big Kul Tirans and Ogres share no similarities

    Aside from different colored eyes High Elves and Blood Elves share no differences

    The comparison is dumb
    Aside from green armor, the kul tirans and stormwindians share no differences
    , oh wait, they somehow do, something about harsh environment and different food
    Last edited by mmoc09bcb5d61f; 2018-04-30 at 11:56 AM.

  3. #4023
    Bloodsail Admiral Daevelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneOstrich View Post
    I doubt more then 1% of horde players would give a shit. Ogre's are a often asked race, but ony lin the - in-crowd. Most players aren't fussed by all this.

    As far as that goes the analogy stands, I doubt half the alliance players even know all the fuss people make over helves, let alone care.

    P.S. As a hordy I think Kul'tiran and dark irons are awesome and if I ever want to play one I'll happily accept rolling an alliance toon. Even though I think the faction divide is outdated and boring.
    Well, we skipped all the middle talk and got right to the end about these always being the small part of the population. Damn, and here i was hoping to have a fun discussion. D:

    And yes, Kul'Tirans and Dark Irons are awesome. I plan to try both out, though i can never abandon Bojangles the undead murder orc.
    TEA IS DOWN!

    Sylvanas is what you get when you cross Joffrey Baratheon with a mary sue. Change my mind. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  4. #4024
    If Silver Covenant Elves become playable as an entirely separate Allied Race, then so should Stromic, Lordaeronian and Alteraci Humans. Since, you know, it's the same logic, the Silver Covenant is just an organization.

  5. #4025
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    Why would be? because ion repeated the same uneducated arguments from blizzcon, that undermine the very existence of void elves?



    Aside from green armor, the kul tirans and stormwindians share no differences
    , oh wait, they somehow do, something about harsh environment and different food
    You’re a crazy person

  6. #4026
    I'm not interested in playing High Elves, but Ion's response seemed like sheer arrogance at the playerbase. He's the Team Lead of WoW and he knows Void Elves and Nightborne are being developed, and puts forth the very reasons they exist as to not put in High Elves.

    I honestly would be pretty goddamn miffed at him for seemingly lying to everyone straight faced.

  7. #4027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    If Silver Covenant Elves become playable as an entirely separate Allied Race, then so should Stromic, Lordaeronian and Alteraci Humans. Since, you know, it's the same logic, the Silver Covenant is just an organization.
    That is pretty much route, the blizzard is going, but they have to retcon looks of different kingdoms, as they did with gilneans and kul tirans.. Just wait and see, how arathi people become muscular barbaric folk and alteraci will be skinny thugs

  8. #4028
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    Why would be? because ion repeated the same uneducated arguments from blizzcon, that undermine the very existence of void elves?



    Aside from green armor, the kul tirans and stormwindians share no differences
    , oh wait, they somehow do, something about harsh environment and different food
    Kul Tiran Humans and Stormwindian Humans are in the same faction, the 'identity' and 'population' problems therefore are not present in this case.

  9. #4029
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokzum View Post
    Pretty sure Silver Covenant elves aren't called that.

    Americans used to be English. We changed are names. Are we still English? No we've made our own cultural and have "mudded" ourselves with other "races".
    It's the same race they only have different eyes. It makes no sense to add an already existing Horde race to the Alliance. What is the point of factions if we do that? And you know if they ever decide to do that people will ask for compensation and here we are having Night Elves or Humans on the Horde and Blood Elves on the Alliance. Do you even realise what mess you are asking for?

  10. #4030
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    You’re a crazy person
    indeed, i actually see how blizz easily retcons look of the whole kingdom, craaaaaaaazyyyyyy

  11. #4031
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    That is pretty much route, the blizzard is going, but they have to retcon looks of different kingdoms, as they did with gilneans and kul tirans.. Just wait and see, how arathi people become muscular barbaric folk and alteraci will be skinny thugs
    It might not sound outrageous now but when they decide to make those humans part of the Horde.. oh boy.

  12. #4032
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaRandomReindeer View Post
    It might not sound outrageous now but when they decide to make those humans part of the Horde.. oh boy.
    So what? if it would make sense lorewise then why not.. if they somehow make syndicate members of the horde, while slightly altering their look why not? I am not that possessive of muh humans

  13. #4033
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    I wonder how a lot of horde players would react if Ion claimed Kul'Tirans were the compromise for Ogres? I imagine the anti helf people would change their tunes VERY quickly. "If you want playable Ogres, the Alliance is there waiting for you."

    Sure, it's a stretch as the comparison is nowhere near as tight as high elves, but still, use some creativity. Humour the 'what if'.
    Kul Tirans can't be a compromise for Ogres because it looks like they are a throwback to the Vrykul to me.

    In the hypothetical scenario that actual Ogres were added to the Alliance...then yes, Ogres would be an Alliance race from that point on and any Horde players pining for them would have to get over themselves.

  14. #4034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    So what? if it would make sense lorewise then why not.. if they somehow make syndicate members of the horde, while slightly altering their look why not? I am not that possessive of muh humans
    The idea of having Humans and Orcs in the same faction is... I don't even know how to put it. It'd go against the very thought of the two factions as the reason it exists in the first place is because of Humans vs Orcs.

  15. #4035
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    So what? if it would make sense lorewise then why not.. if they somehow make syndicate members of the horde, while slightly altering their look why not? I am not that possessive of muh humans
    Why would we need factions then? If the Horde can play Alliance factions and Alliance can play Horde factions what is the point of factions? Don't you realize that that would ruin factions and the game dynamics as we know them? Maybe you should realize that people here are protesting that stupid idea because it would ruin the uniqueness of races and factions.

  16. #4036
    Stood in the Fire Halefire94's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I think there is a reason they are being so unreasonably stubborn on high elves.

    Though we've made plenty of distinction in the OP, a pretty elf race that is very similar to the biggest horde race on the alliance. It would destroy the Horde's population.

    Most Belf players don't have faction loyalty and just want to play the pretty race. If they could the same pretty race and pretty faction, they will. There is no other reason why I see Ion and team being so stubborn

  17. #4037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    The idea of having Humans and Orcs in the same faction is... I don't even know how to put it. It'd go against the very thought of the two factions as the reason it exists in the first place is because of Humans vs Orcs.
    Alterac kingdom collaborated with orcs. It wouldnt be a big stretch for remnants of alterac to join the horde

  18. #4038
    Deleted
    All right, another case for High Elves.

    - - - Part [1/3] - - -

    ''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?

    No, they are not. Blood Elves have been exposed to Fel energy, and have been siphoning mana from living creatures. High Elves haven't, and don't (they mostly use moon wells to satiate their addiction).

    This fact alone is enough to physically distinguish both races, and make High Elves look different than Blood Elves (or later Void Elves - more on this below).

    So, just as Night Elves (1a) and Night Elves of Suramar (1a) were exactly the same - through exposure to the Nightwell the same looking biological race changed physically, and Night Elves of Suramar (1a) became and renamed to 'Nightborne' (1b) - who actually do look slighly different physically.
    Thalassian High Elves (2a) and Thalassian High Elves under KT (early on) / Lor'themar (later on) (2a); were exactly the same - through exposure to Fel energy the same looking biological race changed physically, and Thalassian High Elves under KT / LT (2a) became and renamed to 'Blood Elves', because of the events in The 3rd War.

    Granted, from what we've seen in the game, it's just the green eyes; but that's only because we haven't seen a properly designed Thalassian High Elf (the base one, the one from before the Scourge destroyed the Sunwell; like Night Elves were the base for Nightborne - at least lore-wise).

    So if we reverse-engineered Blood Elves' evolution, given the Blood Elf model we've got now, the original Thalassian High Elf could very well have looked a bit different (than just having blue eyes instead of green eyes).

    I'm not saying anything drastic, but a slight physique or posture difference could do the trick (along with different customisation options of course); which worked with Night Elves (1a) and Nightborne (1b), so it could work with High Elves (2a) and Blood Elves (2b).

    As for Void Elves, they were literally Blood Elves until Argus patch (which is when I assume they started meddling with the void), so I guess it's fine for them to be a re-colour of the Blood Elf model, for now at least. Who knows how the void will evolve them over time though.

    So basically, what we're asking for, is the original, base Thalassian High Elf (but call them High Elves ofc.), and how they looked like, until they got exposed to fel and started siphoning mana from creatures (basically until they became Blood Elves).
    They do exist, they're not 'basically Blood Elves', there's more of them in the game than there are Void Elves, they're already in the Alliance, and Vereesa could officially lead them (not just The Silver Covenant, but Dalaran High Elves, Quel'Danil Lodge High Elves and Allerian Stronghold High Elves as well - horde is pulling Mag'har Orcs from alternate universe Draenor, we could at least pull some High Elves from current universe Outland; what are they still doing there?).
    She could also get a nice model rework to fit the Windrunner trio.

    - - -

    Some people have suggested Half-elves, which would be a High Elf x Human cross breed race, having lived together in Dalaran for so long.
    No. There's no need for a pseudo compromise. High Elves are already there, have the backstory, cultural difference from other Thalassian Elves; there's no need for another new thing. They're rare anyway.

    - - -

    Some people have suggested additional character customisation options for Void Elves, to make them look like High Elves. Another pseudo compromise, and another no. Void Elves are Blood Elves exiled from Silvermoon City, period (as far as the current story progression goes at least, who knows maybe Alleria will take on some High Elves if they meddle with the void in the future, but that would just make them Void Elves anyway; having High Elf-like customisation added to Void Elves wouldn't make much sense. It kind of makes sense for Mag'har Orcs, given they're all uncorrupted, and they're just different clans; but it wouldn't work for VE and HE, definitely not under the already established name of Void Elf.

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Part [2/3] - - -

    To the people claiming that Blizzard's given us Void Elves for High Elves.

    No, that's not what happened. They introduced Void Elves because it made sense to do so story-wise. It has nothing to do with High Elves.

    We had some introduction to the void through Argus, and Alleria. Her becoming an activatable Void Elf is not bad writing, it's a part of the bigger story. Alleria, and Void Elves will have a bigger role to play in the void expansion, along with Locus Walker, and all that. If not in late BFA, then in the next expansion, or expansion after that; so getting Void Elves this 'early' is Blizzard laying the ground work for them in the void expansion, so that they don't feel rushed and without any backstory when the expansion arrives.

    They made the Nightborne join the Horde, and needed some other race to join the Allience. Whether or not Void Elves were always the plan, or if they came up with them on the spot, doesn't really matter, because as I said, to me it kind of makes sense to have them, and they might come in handy (lore-wise) in the void expansion. One of the major lore characters didn't just get infused with void for no reason.

    If they had put High Elves in place of Void Elves against the Nightborne, it would have been a bit out of place.
    Why? Well, we've encountered both races in Legion. We helped the Nightborne get back Suramar, and we had some introduction to the void on Argus, and creation of a Void Elf (I know, it went straight from there being one Void Elf, into Void Elf Intro Scenario, but we did get some explanation of how they came to be); and then we recruited both as allied races, all during Legion (yes, it was a BFA promo & selling point, but we got them in Legion).

    Now, having High Elves join the Alliance in BFA makes more sense, since it's a faction war expansion (at least how it starts off as), and both sides are raising armies.

    So, kid you not, I truly think it's going to happen and they're just trying to brush the subject off, only to surprise us mid-expansion.
    They said there would add more allied races in the future - well, what like? And not just what would be a cool race to play as, but what race/tribe would make sense to have added to a faction, with a strong backstory and an established leader. High Elves are a no-brainer.

    So, being negative towards Void Elves isn't going to help the case; it's only going to hurt it if anything.

    Anyone saying 'void elves fail', 'void elves failed to satisfy the high elven community', etc. - again, they aren't there to satisfy anyone, they're there because it made sense in the story, and it's a setup for the next expansion.

    Have Blizzard ever said 'to all High Elf fans out there, here's Void Elves' or even imply it? Can't recall, but if you know they did please let me know.
    If anything, they pointed the High Elf fans to the Blood Elves, never to the Void Elves (see? I'm telling you Void Elves are a separate thing); which could be a misdirection. I don't think Ion is that ignorant.

    If Blood Elves (fel exposure -> green eyes) were basically High Elves; wouldn't Orcs (fel exposure -> green skin) be basically Brown Orcs?
    Why would we be getting Brown Orcs then, and only poor excuses against High Elves?

    They're not the same, and Blizzard knows it. They've got all they need (if not more than some allied races had) to make them a playable race, if they haven't already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Part [3/3] - - -

    So what's the counterpart to the Horde?

    Personally I wouldn't mind if a faction had one or two more races than the other, if it made sense in the story, why not. They even said it in an interview that that could happen; they could release one allied race at a time, and then another one next patch or so, but eventually they'd want symmetry between the number of races available for each faction; fair enough.

    Horde's counterpart wouldn't have to be an elf race, but it could be.

    So why not Forsaken High Elves (or 'Forsaken Elves').

    Imagine Sylvanas; 'You think you can bring my ancestral race of High Elves into the Alliance, to fight against me (she'd take it personally); let me raise all the dead High Elves (or just some?) that died during The 3rd War, that'll show you.'

    The Undead / Forsaken, are mostly humans of Lordaeron killed by Arthas during The 3rd War, raised by Val'kyr (Cataclysm -> present).
    Yes, it should be undead humans, dwarves, probably gnomes, and high elves - which are the races that died to Arthas' Scourge in Lordaeron, but for gameplay reasons and character customisation restrictions we only got Undead Humans / Forsaken.

    So this counterpart already exists in the game. Alliance has Humans, and Horde has Undead Humans (Forsaken).
    Why not extend it to High Elves and Undead High Elves (Forsaken High Elves). Especially now since BFA is a faction war expansion (again, at least how it starts off as), and both factions are raising armies (possibly literally in this one case).

    - How would it happen?
    Not exactly sure, Sylvanas could use her Val'kyr I guess, or maybe she could use the power of Azerite to raise them, if it had such power?

    - Where would she do it?
    The Dead Scar (left-over Blight from Arthas' adventures) going from Deatholme in Ghostlands all the way through Eversong Woods and Silvermoon City up to the shore. There are thousands of skeletons buried there, of, what I can only assume, dead High Elves. With full graphics on, you can just zoom in and see them for yourself.

    - Banshees?
    Why not, we could start off as a banshee and have a little scenario of getting back to our body, like Sylvanas did. Who knows, it could work.

    Soooo, these are my general thoughts on the matter.

  19. #4039
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Saw your posts on WoWhead earlier. Aside from the fact that we already have too many elves, your solution adding a 5th elven race that is on Alliance side... is a 6th elven 'race', though undead, on Horde side.

    TOO. MANY. ELVES. x_x

  20. #4040
    Quote Originally Posted by buriedmastery View Post
    All right, another case for High Elves.

    - - - Part [1/3] - - -

    ''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?
    Yes.

    Case solved!

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