Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

All right, another case for High Elves.

- - - Part [1/3] - - -

''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?

No, they are not. Blood Elves have been exposed to Fel energy, and have been siphoning mana from living creatures. High Elves haven't, and don't (they mostly use moon wells to satiate their addiction).

This fact alone is enough to physically distinguish both races, and make High Elves look different than Blood Elves (or later Void Elves - more on this below).

So, just as Night Elves (1a) and Night Elves of Suramar (1a) were exactly the same - through exposure to the Nightwell the same looking biological race changed physically, and Night Elves of Suramar (1a) became and renamed to 'Nightborne' (1b) - who actually do look slighly different physically.
Thalassian High Elves (2a) and Thalassian High Elves under KT (early on) / Lor'themar (later on) (2a); were exactly the same - through exposure to Fel energy the same looking biological race changed physically, and Thalassian High Elves under KT / LT (2a) became and renamed to 'Blood Elves', because of the events in The 3rd War.

Granted, from what we've seen in the game, it's just the green eyes; but that's only because we haven't seen a properly designed Thalassian High Elf (the base one, the one from before the Scourge destroyed the Sunwell; like Night Elves were the base for Nightborne - at least lore-wise).

So if we reverse-engineered Blood Elves' evolution, given the Blood Elf model we've got now, the original Thalassian High Elf could very well have looked a bit different (than just having blue eyes instead of green eyes).

I'm not saying anything drastic, but a slight physique or posture difference could do the trick (along with different customisation options of course); which worked with Night Elves (1a) and Nightborne (1b), so it could work with High Elves (2a) and Blood Elves (2b).

As for Void Elves, they were literally Blood Elves until Argus patch (which is when I assume they started meddling with the void), so I guess it's fine for them to be a re-colour of the Blood Elf model, for now at least. Who knows how the void will evolve them over time though.

So basically, what we're asking for, is the original, base Thalassian High Elf (but call them High Elves ofc.), and how they looked like, until they got exposed to fel and started siphoning mana from creatures (basically until they became Blood Elves).
They do exist, they're not 'basically Blood Elves', there's more of them in the game than there are Void Elves, they're already in the Alliance, and Vereesa could officially lead them (not just The Silver Covenant, but Dalaran High Elves, Quel'Danil Lodge High Elves and Allerian Stronghold High Elves as well - horde is pulling Mag'har Orcs from alternate universe Draenor, we could at least pull some High Elves from current universe Outland; what are they still doing there?).
She could also get a nice model rework to fit the Windrunner trio.

- - -

Some people have suggested Half-elves, which would be a High Elf x Human cross breed race, having lived together in Dalaran for so long.
No. There's no need for a pseudo compromise. High Elves are already there, have the backstory, cultural difference from other Thalassian Elves; there's no need for another new thing. They're rare anyway.

- - -

Some people have suggested additional character customisation options for Void Elves, to make them look like High Elves. Another pseudo compromise, and another no. Void Elves are Blood Elves exiled from Silvermoon City, period (as far as the current story progression goes at least, who knows maybe Alleria will take on some High Elves if they meddle with the void in the future, but that would just make them Void Elves anyway; having High Elf-like customisation added to Void Elves wouldn't make much sense. It kind of makes sense for Mag'har Orcs, given they're all uncorrupted, and they're just different clans; but it wouldn't work for VE and HE, definitely not under the already established name of Void Elf.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Part [2/3] - - -

To the people claiming that Blizzard's given us Void Elves for High Elves.

No, that's not what happened. They introduced Void Elves because it made sense to do so story-wise. It has nothing to do with High Elves.

We had some introduction to the void through Argus, and Alleria. Her becoming an activatable Void Elf is not bad writing, it's a part of the bigger story. Alleria, and Void Elves will have a bigger role to play in the void expansion, along with Locus Walker, and all that. If not in late BFA, then in the next expansion, or expansion after that; so getting Void Elves this 'early' is Blizzard laying the ground work for them in the void expansion, so that they don't feel rushed and without any backstory when the expansion arrives.

They made the Nightborne join the Horde, and needed some other race to join the Allience. Whether or not Void Elves were always the plan, or if they came up with them on the spot, doesn't really matter, because as I said, to me it kind of makes sense to have them, and they might come in handy (lore-wise) in the void expansion. One of the major lore characters didn't just get infused with void for no reason.

If they had put High Elves in place of Void Elves against the Nightborne, it would have been a bit out of place.
Why? Well, we've encountered both races in Legion. We helped the Nightborne get back Suramar, and we had some introduction to the void on Argus, and creation of a Void Elf (I know, it went straight from there being one Void Elf, into Void Elf Intro Scenario, but we did get some explanation of how they came to be); and then we recruited both as allied races, all during Legion (yes, it was a BFA promo & selling point, but we got them in Legion).

Now, having High Elves join the Alliance in BFA makes more sense, since it's a faction war expansion (at least how it starts off as), and both sides are raising armies.

So, kid you not, I truly think it's going to happen and they're just trying to brush the subject off, only to surprise us mid-expansion.
They said there would add more allied races in the future - well, what like? And not just what would be a cool race to play as, but what race/tribe would make sense to have added to a faction, with a strong backstory and an established leader. High Elves are a no-brainer.

So, being negative towards Void Elves isn't going to help the case; it's only going to hurt it if anything.

Anyone saying 'void elves fail', 'void elves failed to satisfy the high elven community', etc. - again, they aren't there to satisfy anyone, they're there because it made sense in the story, and it's a setup for the next expansion.

Have Blizzard ever said 'to all High Elf fans out there, here's Void Elves' or even imply it? Can't recall, but if you know they did please let me know.
If anything, they pointed the High Elf fans to the Blood Elves, never to the Void Elves (see? I'm telling you Void Elves are a separate thing); which could be a misdirection. I don't think Ion is that ignorant.

If Blood Elves (fel exposure -> green eyes) were basically High Elves; wouldn't Orcs (fel exposure -> green skin) be basically Brown Orcs?
Why would we be getting Brown Orcs then, and only poor excuses against High Elves?

They're not the same, and Blizzard knows it. They've got all they need (if not more than some allied races had) to make them a playable race, if they haven't already.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Part [3/3] - - -

So what's the counterpart to the Horde?

Personally I wouldn't mind if a faction had one or two more races than the other, if it made sense in the story, why not. They even said it in an interview that that could happen; they could release one allied race at a time, and then another one next patch or so, but eventually they'd want symmetry between the number of races available for each faction; fair enough.

Horde's counterpart wouldn't have to be an elf race, but it could be.

So why not Forsaken High Elves (or 'Forsaken Elves').

Imagine Sylvanas; 'You think you can bring my ancestral race of High Elves into the Alliance, to fight against me (she'd take it personally); let me raise all the dead High Elves (or just some?) that died during The 3rd War, that'll show you.'

The Undead / Forsaken, are mostly humans of Lordaeron killed by Arthas during The 3rd War, raised by Val'kyr (Cataclysm -> present).
Yes, it should be undead humans, dwarves, probably gnomes, and high elves - which are the races that died to Arthas' Scourge in Lordaeron, but for gameplay reasons and character customisation restrictions we only got Undead Humans / Forsaken.

So this counterpart already exists in the game. Alliance has Humans, and Horde has Undead Humans (Forsaken).
Why not extend it to High Elves and Undead High Elves (Forsaken High Elves). Especially now since BFA is a faction war expansion (again, at least how it starts off as), and both factions are raising armies (possibly literally in this one case).

- How would it happen?
Not exactly sure, Sylvanas could use her Val'kyr I guess, or maybe she could use the power of Azerite to raise them, if it had such power?

- Where would she do it?
The Dead Scar (left-over Blight from Arthas' adventures) going from Deatholme in Ghostlands all the way through Eversong Woods and Silvermoon City up to the shore. There are thousands of skeletons buried there, of, what I can only assume, dead High Elves. With full graphics on, you can just zoom in and see them for yourself.

- Banshees?
Why not, we could start off as a banshee and have a little scenario of getting back to our body, like Sylvanas did. Who knows, it could work.

Soooo, these are my general thoughts on the matter.

[Sigxy]

Saw your posts on WoWhead earlier. Aside from the fact that we already have too many elves, your solution adding a 5th elven race that is on Alliance side... is a 6th elven 'race', though undead, on Horde side.

TOO. MANY. ELVES. x_x

[Broken Fox]

All right, another case for High Elves.

- - - Part [1/3] - - -

''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?

Yes.

Case solved!

[Varodoc]

There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).

[Severance]

I'm not interested in playing High Elves, but Ion's response seemed like sheer arrogance at the playerbase. He's the Team Lead of WoW and he knows Void Elves and Nightborne are being developed, and puts forth the very reasons they exist as to not put in High Elves.

I honestly would be pretty goddamn miffed at him for seemingly lying to everyone straight faced.

Because he's right? Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blood Elves and High Elves are literally the same thing? What, they color everything blue instead of red and they have blue eyes instead of green? I get it, it's really not a big deal if Blizzard put them in, but it's clear that they chose not to because they felt creating Void Elves was more interesting. And I can't blame them.

What all of this is really about is that Blood Elves are "stuck" on the "ugly faction". People want a High Fantasy Tolkien style experience and the Alliance matches that feeling way more than the Horde does. But Night Elves don't quite match the "fair elf" look, and people have gone bonkers over the Blood Elf models, and they see High Elves as that backdoor into justifying how they could be an Alliance race if only Blizzard agreed.

Which....they don't. But you do get Void Elves which aren't quite what you wanted, which is fair, because the Horde get Nightborne which aren't quite what they wanted, so now you have your Monkey's Paw elves. Enjoy.

Honestly I find the whole High Elf thing to be hilarious considering just the idea that Saurfang might defect and bring Alliance Orcs into existence was enough to trigger meltdowns in people. Yet it's perfectly okay that we do exactly that for High Elves.

[Deleted]

There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).

indeed, just like dark irons, right?

[Gurluas]

There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).

That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.

Before Cata, I always thought the best way to give Alliance High elves is by giving the Horde Dark Irons. At the time Dark Irons were big time enemies of the Alliance, and I could definitely see them turning to the Horde in desperation as the Alliance offensive against them increased.

Another option were the Highborne...Alas, both joined the Alliance in Cata. Although the Nightborne are basically slightly changed Highborne so in a way, the Horde got em. But we didn't get High elves.

[Broken Fox]

Because he's right? Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blood Elves and High Elves are literally the same thing? What, they color everything blue instead of red and they have blue eyes instead of green? I get it, it's really not a big deal if Blizzard put them in, but it's clear that they chose not to because they felt creating Void Elves was more interesting. And I can't blame them.

What all of this is really about is that Blood Elves are "stuck" on the "ugly faction". People want a High Fantasy Tolkien style experience and the Alliance matches that feeling way more than the Horde does. But Night Elves don't quite match the "fair elf" look, and people have gone bonkers over the Blood Elf models, and they see High Elves as that backdoor into justifying how they could be an Alliance race if only Blizzard agreed.

Which....they don't. But you do get Void Elves which aren't quite what you wanted, which is fair, because the Horde get Nightborne which aren't quite what they wanted, so now you have your Monkey's Paw elves. Enjoy.

Honestly I find the whole High Elf thing to be hilarious considering just the idea that Saurfang might defect and bring Alliance Orcs into existence was enough to trigger meltdowns in people. Yet it's perfectly okay that we do exactly that for High Elves.

I don’t understand why this crowd doesn’t embrace night elves more. You can make them super pale already, with white hair, and their animations/proportions are far better than the twig Barbies that are blood elves. They even have the wood elf thing going, like Legolas.

Admittedly the males look retarded but so do the blood elf males, so

[JustaRandomReindeer]

That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.

Before Cata, I always thought the best way to give Alliance High elves is by giving the Horde Dark Irons. At the time Dark Irons were big time enemies of the Alliance, and I could definitely see them turning to the Horde in desperation as the Alliance offensive against them increased.

Another option were the Highborne...Alas, both joined the Alliance in Cata. Although the Nightborne are basically slightly changed Highborne so in a way, the Horde got em. But we didn't get High elves.

You got Void Elves which are basically High Elves that decided to play with void magic.

[Deleted]

I don’t understand why this crowd doesn’t embrace night elves more. You can make them super pale already, with white hair, and their animations/proportions are far better than the twig Barbies that are blood elves. They even have the wood elf thing going, like Legolas.

Admittedly the males look retarded but so do the blood elf males, so

Males have extremly small waists, their faces look derpy, you have no eyebrows when you choose no beard, they are clearly unfinished, they do not fulfill high elven fantasy

[Gurluas]

You got Void Elves which are basically High Elves that decided to play with void magic.

No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.

It's more like giving the Horde Nightborne when they wanted Highborne that are basically Night Elves but with different eye color.

[Gurluas]

It's more like giving the Horde Nightborne when they wanted Highborne that are basically Night Elves but with different eye color.

No, it's completely different from the original idea. One are uncorrupted Orcs who refused to drink the blood and remained in Garadar. (Going with OG Mag'har for this)
The others are Mag'har that were captured and forcefed with Magtheridon's blood, turning into Half-demon Orcs with spikes.

Sure both are Orcs, but Fel orcs won't make Mag'har fans happy. Likewise Void elves didn't make High elf fans happy...Well other than giving them a race to cover up and pretend to be High elves while cancelling the racial buff instantly everytime it happens.

[Varodoc]

indeed, just like dark irons, right?

That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.

No. Only a part of the Dark Iron Clan joined Moira in Cataclysm. The rest of the Clan remained neutral and defied the Alliance, hence why we have to recruit the majority of the Dark Iron Clan into the Alliance so that we can use its resources to harness Azerite. The aforementioned is stated in their official description in-game and on the official website.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

No, it's completely different from the original idea. One are uncorrupted Orcs who refused to drink the blood and remained in Garadar. (Going with OG Mag'har for this)
The others are Mag'har that were captured and forcefed with Magtheridon's blood, turning into Half-demon Orcs with spikes.

Sure both are Orcs, but Fel orcs won't make Mag'har fans happy. Likewise Void elves didn't make High elf fans happy...Well other than giving them a race to cover up and pretend to be High elves while cancelling the racial buff instantly everytime it happens.

I was trying to say you gave a bad example. If people are not satisfied with how Void Elves look they can just play Horde or ask for more reasonable customizations. When people were not happy with how Nightborne look they didn't demand Night Elves with different eye color on the Horde side rather they asked for more customization options for Higborne because they realize that Night Elves already exist on one faction and giving them to the Horde too would make factions pointless.

[Gurluas]

No. Only a part of the Dark Iron Clan joined Moira in Cataclysm. The rest of the Clan remained neutral and defied the Alliance, hence why we have to recruit the majority of the Dark Iron Clan into the Alliance so that we can use its resources to harness Azerite. The aforementioned is stated in their official description in-game and on the official website.

Yes, and the entire High elf race is not in the Alliance either, there's neutral ones, and the Quel'danil ones are likely to not be in the Alliance similar to the Wildhammers.

I was trying to say you gave a bad example. If people are not satisfied with how Void Elves look they can just play Horde or ask for more reasonable customizations. When people were not happy with how Nightborne look they didn't demand Night Elves with different eye color on the Horde side rather they asked for more customization options for Higborne because they realize that Night Elves already exist on one faction and giving them to the Horde too would make factions pointless.

You're missing the point. It's not a matter of customization but the very identity of the race.
If they added Fel Orcs and started saying that Mag'har are basically the same as the playable Orcs but with Brown skin and they won't add em. I assure you, Mag'har fans would be mad at Ion and making threads asking for Mag'har to be added.

Likewise, Void elves AND Blood elves do not satisfy the High elf identity. Asking High elf fans to go join their worst enemies or to become edgy Tentacle monsters will not make them happy.

[Varodoc]

Yes, and the entire High elf race is not in the Alliance either, there's neutral ones, and the Quel'danil ones are likely to not be in the Alliance similar to the Wildhammers.

No. The Silver Covenant has always been pro-Alliance and they even stood with the Kaldorei against the Sin'dorei during the Nightfallen Insurrection (when Sin'dorei and Kaldorei troops were making fun of each other, the Quel'dorei backed the Kaldorei). Highvale Elves have been an Alliance member since Cataclysm, when they repelled a Forsaken invasion (thus took part in the faction war by the Alliance's side), and interacted extensively with Alliance Ambassador Rualeth.

The 'entire' High Elf race consists of:

- The Sin'dorei (Horde);
- The Ren'dorei (Alliance);
- The Highvale (Alliance);
- The Silver Covenant (Alliance);
- The Illidari (Alliance/Horde).

[protip]

No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.

The problem here is that Blood Elves aren't corrupted. What most High Elf fans are asking for is the equivalent of asking for a Mag'har orc with blue eyes when the other faction has a Mag'har orc with green eyes. The difference is so minor that it's not a reasonable basis for a new race.

''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?

No, they are not. Blood Elves have been exposed to Fel energy, and have been siphoning mana from living creatures. High Elves haven't, and don't (they mostly use moon wells to satiate their addiction).

This fact alone is enough to physically distinguish both races, and make High Elves look different than Blood Elves (or later Void Elves - more on this below).

I recognize that High Elf fans want to see the Blood Elf model as something other than a High Elf with green eyes, but that's just not what it is. Blizzard doesn't want them to be elves that were corrupted by fel exposure and siphoning the magic out of other beings. They have explained both in dev interviews and in the lore that a Blood Elf is a High Elf with green eyes. That doesn't leave space for an uncorrupted version of Blood Elves to be playable, because the whole idea is that they aren't corrupted. If you claim that there was a transformation on the part of the Blood Elves, you're retconning a major part of their story and identity as a race.

To the people claiming that Blizzard's given us Void Elves for High Elves.

No, that's not what happened. They introduced Void Elves because it made sense to do so story-wise. It has nothing to do with High Elves.

And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

By word of the lead developer, that's exactly what happened. If a High Elf isn't significantly different from a Blood Elf, and they tried to give you something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf, then they also tried to give you something that felt a bit like a High Elf. You're imagining there to be a greater difference between High Elves and Blood Elves than there is in the eyes of the developers, or you just value those small differences higher. In either case, their intentions were clearly to offer a compromise in place of High Elves.

[Gurluas]

No. The Silver Covenant has always been pro-Alliance and they even stood with the Kaldorei against the Sin'dorei during the Nightfallen Insurrection (when Sin'dorei and Kaldorei troops were making fun of each other, the Quel'dorei backed the Kaldorei). Highvale Elves have been an Alliance member since Cataclysm, when they repelled a Forsaken invasion (thus took part in the faction war by the Alliance's side), and interacted extensively with Alliance Ambassador Rualeth.

The Wildhammer also interacted with Alliance ambassadors, but they were only aligned to the Alliance, not members of it.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Troll_Necklace_Bounty

They only joined much later on, as far as we know, the Quel'danil High elves are likewise independent and have not officially joined the Alliance.

[Varodoc]

If they added Fel Orcs and started saying that Mag'har are basically the same as the playable Orcs but with Brown skin and they won't add em. I assure you, Mag'har fans would be mad at Ion and making threads asking for Mag'har to be added.

Funnily enough, Mag'har fans didn't even want a separate Allied Race for the Mag'har Orcs, they were just fine with a brown skin customization option for normal Orcs. Probably because they are not as whiny and self-entitled as High Elves fans. And, again, there wouldn't be the population and identity problem since normal Orcs and Mag'har are in the same faction.

The Wildhammer also interacted with Alliance ambassadors, but they were only aligned to the Alliance, not members of it.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Troll_Necklace_Bounty

That is not stated for Highvale Elves, and all evidence points towards the Highvale being part of the Alliance now. Even Wowpedia -- a website endorsed by Blizzard itself -- agrees with me.

They only joined much later on, as far as we know, the Quel'danil High elves are likewise independent and have not officially joined the Alliance.

After the Alliance effectively saved their Lodge from utter destruction by the Revantusk Trolls (Classic) and the Forsaken (Cataclysm)?