1. #4041
    There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  2. #4042
    Quote Originally Posted by Strangewayes View Post
    I'm not interested in playing High Elves, but Ion's response seemed like sheer arrogance at the playerbase. He's the Team Lead of WoW and he knows Void Elves and Nightborne are being developed, and puts forth the very reasons they exist as to not put in High Elves.

    I honestly would be pretty goddamn miffed at him for seemingly lying to everyone straight faced.
    Because he's right? Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blood Elves and High Elves are literally the same thing? What, they color everything blue instead of red and they have blue eyes instead of green? I get it, it's really not a big deal if Blizzard put them in, but it's clear that they chose not to because they felt creating Void Elves was more interesting. And I can't blame them.

    What all of this is really about is that Blood Elves are "stuck" on the "ugly faction". People want a High Fantasy Tolkien style experience and the Alliance matches that feeling way more than the Horde does. But Night Elves don't quite match the "fair elf" look, and people have gone bonkers over the Blood Elf models, and they see High Elves as that backdoor into justifying how they could be an Alliance race if only Blizzard agreed.

    Which....they don't. But you do get Void Elves which aren't quite what you wanted, which is fair, because the Horde get Nightborne which aren't quite what they wanted, so now you have your Monkey's Paw elves. Enjoy.

    Honestly I find the whole High Elf thing to be hilarious considering just the idea that Saurfang might defect and bring Alliance Orcs into existence was enough to trigger meltdowns in people. Yet it's perfectly okay that we do exactly that for High Elves.

  3. #4043
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).
    indeed, just like dark irons, right?

  4. #4044
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    There is also the problem that Highvale/Silver Covenant Elves are already in the Alliance, whereas Allied Races aren't members of any factions yet (hence why we have to recruit them first).
    That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.

    Before Cata, I always thought the best way to give Alliance High elves is by giving the Horde Dark Irons. At the time Dark Irons were big time enemies of the Alliance, and I could definitely see them turning to the Horde in desperation as the Alliance offensive against them increased.

    Another option were the Highborne...Alas, both joined the Alliance in Cata. Although the Nightborne are basically slightly changed Highborne so in a way, the Horde got em. But we didn't get High elves.

  5. #4045
    Quote Originally Posted by Severance View Post
    Because he's right? Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blood Elves and High Elves are literally the same thing? What, they color everything blue instead of red and they have blue eyes instead of green? I get it, it's really not a big deal if Blizzard put them in, but it's clear that they chose not to because they felt creating Void Elves was more interesting. And I can't blame them.

    What all of this is really about is that Blood Elves are "stuck" on the "ugly faction". People want a High Fantasy Tolkien style experience and the Alliance matches that feeling way more than the Horde does. But Night Elves don't quite match the "fair elf" look, and people have gone bonkers over the Blood Elf models, and they see High Elves as that backdoor into justifying how they could be an Alliance race if only Blizzard agreed.

    Which....they don't. But you do get Void Elves which aren't quite what you wanted, which is fair, because the Horde get Nightborne which aren't quite what they wanted, so now you have your Monkey's Paw elves. Enjoy.

    Honestly I find the whole High Elf thing to be hilarious considering just the idea that Saurfang might defect and bring Alliance Orcs into existence was enough to trigger meltdowns in people. Yet it's perfectly okay that we do exactly that for High Elves.
    I don’t understand why this crowd doesn’t embrace night elves more. You can make them super pale already, with white hair, and their animations/proportions are far better than the twig Barbies that are blood elves. They even have the wood elf thing going, like Legolas.

    Admittedly the males look retarded but so do the blood elf males, so

  6. #4046
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.

    Before Cata, I always thought the best way to give Alliance High elves is by giving the Horde Dark Irons. At the time Dark Irons were big time enemies of the Alliance, and I could definitely see them turning to the Horde in desperation as the Alliance offensive against them increased.

    Another option were the Highborne...Alas, both joined the Alliance in Cata. Although the Nightborne are basically slightly changed Highborne so in a way, the Horde got em. But we didn't get High elves.
    You got Void Elves which are basically High Elves that decided to play with void magic.

  7. #4047
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    I don’t understand why this crowd doesn’t embrace night elves more. You can make them super pale already, with white hair, and their animations/proportions are far better than the twig Barbies that are blood elves. They even have the wood elf thing going, like Legolas.

    Admittedly the males look retarded but so do the blood elf males, so
    Males have extremly small waists, their faces look derpy, you have no eyebrows when you choose no beard, they are clearly unfinished, they do not fulfill high elven fantasy

  8. #4048
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaRandomReindeer View Post
    You got Void Elves which are basically High Elves that decided to play with void magic.
    No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
    It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.

  9. #4049
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
    It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.
    It's more like giving the Horde Nightborne when they wanted Highborne that are basically Night Elves but with different eye color.

  10. #4050
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaRandomReindeer View Post
    It's more like giving the Horde Nightborne when they wanted Highborne that are basically Night Elves but with different eye color.
    No, it's completely different from the original idea. One are uncorrupted Orcs who refused to drink the blood and remained in Garadar. (Going with OG Mag'har for this)
    The others are Mag'har that were captured and forcefed with Magtheridon's blood, turning into Half-demon Orcs with spikes.

    Sure both are Orcs, but Fel orcs won't make Mag'har fans happy. Likewise Void elves didn't make High elf fans happy...Well other than giving them a race to cover up and pretend to be High elves while cancelling the racial buff instantly everytime it happens.

  11. #4051
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    indeed, just like dark irons, right?
    That's not correct. Dark Irons have been in the Alliance partially since Cata, in BFA you just recruit the rest of them.
    No. Only a part of the Dark Iron Clan joined Moira in Cataclysm. The rest of the Clan remained neutral and defied the Alliance, hence why we have to recruit the majority of the Dark Iron Clan into the Alliance so that we can use its resources to harness Azerite. The aforementioned is stated in their official description in-game and on the official website.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  12. #4052
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    No, it's completely different from the original idea. One are uncorrupted Orcs who refused to drink the blood and remained in Garadar. (Going with OG Mag'har for this)
    The others are Mag'har that were captured and forcefed with Magtheridon's blood, turning into Half-demon Orcs with spikes.

    Sure both are Orcs, but Fel orcs won't make Mag'har fans happy. Likewise Void elves didn't make High elf fans happy...Well other than giving them a race to cover up and pretend to be High elves while cancelling the racial buff instantly everytime it happens.
    I was trying to say you gave a bad example. If people are not satisfied with how Void Elves look they can just play Horde or ask for more reasonable customizations. When people were not happy with how Nightborne look they didn't demand Night Elves with different eye color on the Horde side rather they asked for more customization options for Higborne because they realize that Night Elves already exist on one faction and giving them to the Horde too would make factions pointless.

  13. #4053
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    No. Only a part of the Dark Iron Clan joined Moira in Cataclysm. The rest of the Clan remained neutral and defied the Alliance, hence why we have to recruit the majority of the Dark Iron Clan into the Alliance so that we can use its resources to harness Azerite. The aforementioned is stated in their official description in-game and on the official website.
    Yes, and the entire High elf race is not in the Alliance either, there's neutral ones, and the Quel'danil ones are likely to not be in the Alliance similar to the Wildhammers.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustaRandomReindeer View Post
    I was trying to say you gave a bad example. If people are not satisfied with how Void Elves look they can just play Horde or ask for more reasonable customizations. When people were not happy with how Nightborne look they didn't demand Night Elves with different eye color on the Horde side rather they asked for more customization options for Higborne because they realize that Night Elves already exist on one faction and giving them to the Horde too would make factions pointless.
    You're missing the point. It's not a matter of customization but the very identity of the race.
    If they added Fel Orcs and started saying that Mag'har are basically the same as the playable Orcs but with Brown skin and they won't add em. I assure you, Mag'har fans would be mad at Ion and making threads asking for Mag'har to be added.

    Likewise, Void elves AND Blood elves do not satisfy the High elf identity. Asking High elf fans to go join their worst enemies or to become edgy Tentacle monsters will not make them happy.
    Last edited by Gurluas; 2018-04-30 at 12:44 PM.

  14. #4054
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Yes, and the entire High elf race is not in the Alliance either, there's neutral ones, and the Quel'danil ones are likely to not be in the Alliance similar to the Wildhammers.
    No. The Silver Covenant has always been pro-Alliance and they even stood with the Kaldorei against the Sin'dorei during the Nightfallen Insurrection (when Sin'dorei and Kaldorei troops were making fun of each other, the Quel'dorei backed the Kaldorei). Highvale Elves have been an Alliance member since Cataclysm, when they repelled a Forsaken invasion (thus took part in the faction war by the Alliance's side), and interacted extensively with Alliance Ambassador Rualeth.

    The 'entire' High Elf race consists of:

    - The Sin'dorei (Horde);
    - The Ren'dorei (Alliance);
    - The Highvale (Alliance);
    - The Silver Covenant (Alliance);
    - The Illidari (Alliance/Horde).
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  15. #4055
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    No they're Blood elves that were even worse than Blood elves and got exiled for it and turned into partial void monsters.
    It's like giving the Horde Fel orcs when they wanted Mag'har.
    The problem here is that Blood Elves aren't corrupted. What most High Elf fans are asking for is the equivalent of asking for a Mag'har orc with blue eyes when the other faction has a Mag'har orc with green eyes. The difference is so minor that it's not a reasonable basis for a new race.

    Quote Originally Posted by buriedmastery View Post
    ''Blood Elves are basically High Elves, [...].'' Are they?

    No, they are not. Blood Elves have been exposed to Fel energy, and have been siphoning mana from living creatures. High Elves haven't, and don't (they mostly use moon wells to satiate their addiction).

    This fact alone is enough to physically distinguish both races, and make High Elves look different than Blood Elves (or later Void Elves - more on this below).
    I recognize that High Elf fans want to see the Blood Elf model as something other than a High Elf with green eyes, but that's just not what it is. Blizzard doesn't want them to be elves that were corrupted by fel exposure and siphoning the magic out of other beings. They have explained both in dev interviews and in the lore that a Blood Elf is a High Elf with green eyes. That doesn't leave space for an uncorrupted version of Blood Elves to be playable, because the whole idea is that they aren't corrupted. If you claim that there was a transformation on the part of the Blood Elves, you're retconning a major part of their story and identity as a race.

    To the people claiming that Blizzard's given us Void Elves for High Elves.

    No, that's not what happened. They introduced Void Elves because it made sense to do so story-wise. It has nothing to do with High Elves.
    Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.
    By word of the lead developer, that's exactly what happened. If a High Elf isn't significantly different from a Blood Elf, and they tried to give you something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf, then they also tried to give you something that felt a bit like a High Elf. You're imagining there to be a greater difference between High Elves and Blood Elves than there is in the eyes of the developers, or you just value those small differences higher. In either case, their intentions were clearly to offer a compromise in place of High Elves.

  16. #4056
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    No. The Silver Covenant has always been pro-Alliance and they even stood with the Kaldorei against the Sin'dorei during the Nightfallen Insurrection (when Sin'dorei and Kaldorei troops were making fun of each other, the Quel'dorei backed the Kaldorei). Highvale Elves have been an Alliance member since Cataclysm, when they repelled a Forsaken invasion (thus took part in the faction war by the Alliance's side), and interacted extensively with Alliance Ambassador Rualeth.
    The Wildhammer also interacted with Alliance ambassadors, but they were only aligned to the Alliance, not members of it.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Troll_Necklace_Bounty

    They only joined much later on, as far as we know, the Quel'danil High elves are likewise independent and have not officially joined the Alliance.

  17. #4057
    If they added Fel Orcs and started saying that Mag'har are basically the same as the playable Orcs but with Brown skin and they won't add em. I assure you, Mag'har fans would be mad at Ion and making threads asking for Mag'har to be added.
    Funnily enough, Mag'har fans didn't even want a separate Allied Race for the Mag'har Orcs, they were just fine with a brown skin customization option for normal Orcs. Probably because they are not as whiny and self-entitled as High Elves fans. And, again, there wouldn't be the population and identity problem since normal Orcs and Mag'har are in the same faction.

    The Wildhammer also interacted with Alliance ambassadors, but they were only aligned to the Alliance, not members of it.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Troll_Necklace_Bounty
    That is not stated for Highvale Elves, and all evidence points towards the Highvale being part of the Alliance now. Even Wowpedia -- a website endorsed by Blizzard itself -- agrees with me.

    They only joined much later on, as far as we know, the Quel'danil High elves are likewise independent and have not officially joined the Alliance.
    After the Alliance effectively saved their Lodge from utter destruction by the Revantusk Trolls (Classic) and the Forsaken (Cataclysm)?
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2018-04-30 at 12:49 PM.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  18. #4058
    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    The problem here is that Blood Elves aren't corrupted. What most High Elf fans are asking for is the equivalent of asking for a Mag'har orc with blue eyes when the other faction has a Mag'har orc with green eyes. The difference is so minor that it's not a reasonable basis for a new race.
    I'm not sure if this changed after TBC because frankly a lot of lore has been retconned. But the reddish skin and reddish hair were also due to fel exposure, not just the green eyes. Once again, it's very comparable to Orcs in terms of corruption.

    Mag'har - High elf
    Normal Orc - Blood elf
    Fel Orc - Void elf (Yes I know Void is not fel, but it's a corruptive dark power nonetheless)

    Normal Orcs are identical to Mag'har except for having green skin. Blood elves have less physical changes but that doesn't mean they're not corrupt. Fel Orcs however, are completely warped by Fel, just the same as how Void elves are completely warped by the Void.

    If they renamed the Void elf race, changed their racial to not automatically turn on, and gave High elf customization to Void elves, that'd be fine with me.
    Last edited by Gurluas; 2018-04-30 at 12:52 PM.

  19. #4059
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Yes, and the entire High elf race is not in the Alliance either, there's neutral ones, and the Quel'danil ones are likely to not be in the Alliance similar to the Wildhammers.



    You're missing the point. It's not a matter of customization but the very identity of the race.
    If they added Fel Orcs and started saying that Mag'har are basically the same as the playable Orcs but with Brown skin and they won't add em. I assure you, Mag'har fans would be mad at Ion and making threads asking for Mag'har to be added.

    Likewise, Void elves AND Blood elves do not satisfy the High elf identity. Asking High elf fans to go join their worst enemies or to become edgy Tentacle monsters will not make them happy.
    You are missing the point too. They can do whatever they want with Orcs because they add them to the Horde where they belong and it doesn't cause any faction imbalance. That's why I gave you the Nightborne example because they are basically Night Elves but Nightwell infused so they made sure they do not look too much like Night Elves cuz otherwise it would blur faction lines. For the same reason they gave Alliance Void Elves instead of Silver Covenant Elves. You can't just give a core race of one faction to the other faction but with different eye color. That ruins the purpose of factions.

  20. #4060
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    You know, the high elf wayfarers found in Telogrus Rift do show that, if you want to play a void elf that way, a void elf could have a background as an Alliance-aligned high elf, having never become a blood elf.

    Once I finish my Ulduar farming and unlock the Silver Covenant tabard on her, my mage is going to be looking quite high elf-like (just a bit anemic!!):

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