Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Gurluas]

You think Vulpera would make up for the loss of Blood Elves? Blood Elves are the most popular race because they are sexy. Most people play Blood Elves because they are sexy. Do you think Vulpera are as sexy as Blood Elves? It doesn't matter if you have guilds and friends when there is a new expansion people are willing to reroll, especially with the bad writing recently. Tell me why people would play Blood Elves when there's a better version on the Alliance side? Why should we fuck the game up by causing massive faction imbalance and blurring faction lines just so you can play a Blood Elf on the Alliance side? Why should you demand something so ridiculous when other people like you just solved their problems by actually playing Blood Elves on the Horde side or rolled Void Elves? If I've learned anything from this discussion it is that some people don't care if the game goes to shit as long as they get to play Blood Elves with blue eyes on the Alliance side.

Vulpera would 100% draw a lot of people to the game, and only to the Horde. And some Blood elves will refuse to switch if Vulpera are around in their faction so they can have pets and such. Plus it's insulting and demeaning to assume everyone who plays Blood elves because they're sexy and would immediately switch if blue eyed counterparts existed in the Alliance.
You really do not realize how weird the playerbase can get, seriously go to Goldshire inn on an RP realm and see for yourself.

[Varodoc]

That doesn't mean anything. The game only supports one bodytype, and the Blood elf bodytype is the caster one. A high elf race could have the ranger bodytype, and thus be more muscular.

Then you are not asking for Highvale Elves.

nice headcanon.. i guess there is not a big force of orcs, when they do not take part in destroying the legion on argus

The Silver Covenant is a member of the Alliance, the Alliance had called every ally to Lordaeron to siege it, and neither the Silver Covenant nor the Highvale participated in the battle. At least the Void Elves did.

[Obelisk Kai]

yes...NOW it's a fact, because they rewrote that part of the lore to make it easier for them to add Blood elves to the Horde. That part of the lore being rewritten happened around late-vanilla-TBC.

That lore was never rewritten. That lore was never written in the first place. What you are doing is placing assumptions alongside fact and seeing no different.

You ASSUMED that the High Elves never left the Alliance because until it was written down you had no reason not to think that. But it turns out once they covered the time period, that they did in fact leave the Alliance.

Regardless of whether it's a retcon or not (it's isn't, it is a clarification), the story is now set and appealing to how things were in your ASSUMPTIONS before the story was clarified is useless as a point of debate.

High elves were originally planned for the Alliance in Vanilla.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=813/language-thalassian

This is the ID for the Belf language. 813 means it's one of the earliest spells added to the game.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29932/language-draenei

This is the Draenei language. As you can see it's much higher because Draenei were conceptualized in TBC.


High elves were always considered an Alliance race until TBC when they rewrote the lore.

And you assumed a lot purely based on the fact that the thalassian language ability was coded in so early. Horde Blood Elves could have been planned all along based on this.

[Gurluas]

Then you are not asking for Highvale Elves.


The Silver Covenant is a member of the Alliance, the Alliance had called every ally to Lordaeron to siege it, and neither the Silver Covenant nor the Highvale participated in the battle. At least the Void Elves did.

This is what High elves looked like in Vanilla, in fact, it's even a Highvale elf.
Just because you update the body of a race that doesn't mean they're no longer High elves, the lore and identity is what matters.

That lore was never rewritten. That lore was never written in the first place. What you are doing is placing assumptions alongside fact and seeing no different.

You ASSUMED that the High Elves never left the Alliance because until it was written down you had no reason not to think that. But it turns out once they covered the time period, that they did in fact leave the Alliance.

Regardless of whether it's a retcon or not (it's isn't, it is a clarification), the story is now set and appealing to how things were in your ASSUMPTIONS before the story was clarified is useless as a point of debate.



And you assumed a lot purely based on the fact that the thalassian language ability was coded in so early. Horde Blood Elves could have been planned all along based on this.

The whole discussion was about how things got changed in TBC. It wasn't a discussion about how things are now. The original lore was simply but it was clear, the High elves did not leave the Alliance nor did they blame the humans, that's how the lore was back then. In Wc2 and Wc3 they were part of the Alliance. Now they left shortly after Wc2, and the Elven units in Wc3 were volunteers coming over to help without sanction.

And no, Blizzard confirmed High elves(Blood elves) were planned in the earliest stages of TBC to be in the Alliance, with Ogres in the Horde, and back then the lore had not been retconned.
By the time the Blizzcon alpha came, Blood elves were put into the Horde, and Pandaren were planned for the Alliance instead.
So it was 100% Alliance Blood elves Blizzard planned to add in Vanilla.

[Wilfire]

Garithos was right, the only good elf is a dead elf.

[corebit]

No, I mean after the Second war.
I'm talking about how the lore used to be back then. The elves were arrogant as all Elves but they didn't leave the Alliance and they definitely didn't start blaming humans, that's lore added later.

Blizzard has a tendency to rewrite their lore to fit the current gameplay.

Once again, you keep saying retcon but there was no retcon. Either you have a very twisted interpretion of what it means, or you're being deliberately obtuse. The WC2 lore was never really fleshed out in full because at the time since they were just RTS games, and Blizzard thought a simple lore was enough for the series not realizing how big it would grow.

The details on how and why they left the Lordaeron Alliance after the Second War was added in, but that's staying consistent with the attitude the High Elves displayed all throughout their history with the Humans. They never cared for the Alliance except for selfish reasons. They mentored the humans in magic only because they wanted disposable fodder against the Trolls. They sent a paltry force to aid the Humans in the Second War because they never believed in the Alliance in the first place.

An actual retcon would be if Blizzard shared your view that High Elves are close allies of the Alliance despite all signs in the lore that point in the opposite direction.

Garithos was right, the only good elf is a dead elf.

Part of the reason why Garithos had such hatred and racism against the Elves is because they were fairweather friends of the Alliance in times where it needed help the most.

[Broken Fox]

This is what High elves looked like in Vanilla, in fact, it's even a Highvale elf.
Just because you update the body of a race that doesn't mean they're no longer High elves, the lore and identity is what matters.

Lmao I always found it funny how they left a select few alpha models like this in and never bothered to update them. There’s some left in the Blasted Lands too, I believe.

[Big Mama]

No. The idea of Blood Elves messing with the Void is a very old one dating back to Tempest Keep, where High Astromancer Solarian could turn into a Voidwalker. It is a concept, the one of Void-infused Blood Elves, that Blizzard had desired to explore for years. In addition, a Void Elf, Alleria Windrunner, was the protagonist of Mac'aree, a Legion zone introduced months before the actual reveal of Void Elves as a playable race, so they didn't come out of the blue, and the writers most certainly did not come up with this concept at the last minute.

Unlike Gnomes, who had NO MENTION WHATSOEVER in the Warcraft RTS games, and were invented just because the Alliance lacked a 4th playable race back in Classic.

I don't remember it being that significant. Being an Undead shadow priest and having a voidform doesn't make you a Void Undead. Being a Worgen shadow priest doesn't make you a Void Worgen. Being a Troll shadow priest using a voidform doesn't make you a Void Troll. Being a warlock and using void doesn't turn you into a Void Goblin, Void Dwarf, Void Gnome or Void Human.

The void elves were totally a last minute concept. If you are not accepting that, you are just being delusional. Alleria being a protagonist in Mac'aree does mean barely anything. But did her Argus story helped to whomever came up with the void elves concept? Yeah absolutely. But if I remember correctly, there were no blood elves or high elves on Argus that she would be teaching or helping using the Void. More importantly the writers are probably the last people who can pitch a new race concept. They just have to work with whatever information they are given and make it sound at least a bit believeable and exciting. Plain and simple, the void elf plot was just fire extinguishing. If they knew they will be bringing the void elves, we would seen much more much sooner. Instead, we've got a reputation with completely different people that are not tied to the void elves by any means.

I am more than sure that they've made up the void elves just seconds before the Argus patch was released or maybe even later.

I will say it again that I don't have a problem with the void elves as a concept. I just think they were rushed; invented purely to be a 'sensible' counterpart for the Nightborne; a way to deliver the blood elf model (the high elves) to the Alliance while still making them at least a bit different.

I would be okay with void elves but they came too soon and too unexpectedly.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, when I say seconds, it can mean days, weeks or even months. In the game industry, decision-wise, that's still a very short time period to introduce completely new features (races) or to make any other drastic changes to the gameplay or the lore.

[Varodoc]

This is what High elves looked like in Vanilla, in fact, it's even a Highvale elf.

This is what Sylvanas looked like in Classic. Does this mean that Sylvanas is actually an Undead Night Elf?

I don't remember it being that significant. Being an Undead shadow priest and having a voidform doesn't make you a Void Undead. Being a Worgen shadow priest doesn't make you a Void Worgen. Being a Troll shadow priest using a voidform doesn't make you a Void Troll. Being a warlock and using void doesn't turn you into a Void Goblin, Void Dwarf, Void Gnome or Void Human.

Being turned into an Ethereal but stopping the transformation midway turns you into a Void Elf.

The void elves were totally a last minute concept. If you are not accepting that, you are just being delusional

Yet Alleria's story arc serves to introduce playable Void Elves and yet Alleria's story arc was definitely not a last minute concept since she plays a pivotal role in the Mac'aree zone and Mac'aree is designed around the Void.

If they knew they will be bringing the void elves, we would seen much more much sooner

The same argument can be made for Gnomes, Pandaren, Lightforged Draenei and fat/giant Kul Tiran Humans.

[Gurluas]

This is what Sylvanas looked like in Classic. Does this mean that Sylvanas is actually an Undead Night Elf?

I don't see what you're implying with that. My point was that the model changing wouldn't mean they weren't Highvale elves anymore.
If you gave them more muscles and a more fit physique they'd still be High elves.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Vulpera would 100% draw a lot of people to the game, and only to the Horde. And some Blood elves will refuse to switch if Vulpera are around in their faction so they can have pets and such. Plus it's insulting and demeaning to assume everyone who plays Blood elves because they're sexy and would immediately switch if blue eyed counterparts existed in the Alliance.
You really do not realize how weird the playerbase can get, seriously go to Goldshire inn on an RP realm and see for yourself.

You are being ridiculous at this point. It's unbelievable what I'm reading.

[Deleted]

I don't see what you're implying with that. My point was that the model changing wouldn't mean they weren't Highvale elves anymore.
If you gave them more muscles and a more fit physique they'd still be High elves.

He said no, they must be copy pasted blood elves with duckfaces, otherwise they cease to be high elves

[Varodoc]

I don't see what you're implying with that. My point was that the model changing wouldn't mean they weren't Highvale elves anymore.
If you gave them more muscles and a more fit physique they'd still be High elves.

That model was a placeholder because the Thalassian model wasn't in the game yet, it has no relevance from a story standpoint.

He said no, they must be copy pasted blood elves with duckfaces, otherwise they cease to be high elves

Aside from the fact that High Elves are playable on both factions and so you are just being whiny at this point, give those tattoos and war paints to High Elves if you really want. But then Blood Elves shoudl also have them, since they also have an order linked closely to nature and that lives in lodges nestled in teh woods. And therefore there is once more the problem that High Elves won't stand out from Blood Elves.


Also, it's funny that you accuse me of headcanon, when the entire argument of you Highvale fans is based solely on headcanon. Since the Highvale have never been shown with primitive and tribal war paints, tattoos and hairstyles.

[Gerron]

Then you are not asking for Highvale Elves.


The Silver Covenant is a member of the Alliance, the Alliance had called every ally to Lordaeron to siege it, and neither the Silver Covenant nor the Highvale participated in the battle. At least the Void Elves did.

I wouldn't use the Battle for Lordaeron as an Alliance participation requirement. I didn't see any Pandas running around and I do not remember seeing the Lightforged either. I don't know about you but we certainly could have used a spaceship with a giant holy light cannon for that battle. Just saying.

[Varodoc]

I wouldn't use the Battle for Lordaeron as an Alliance participation requirement. I didn't see any Pandas running around and I do not remember seeing the Lightforged either. I don't know about you but we certainly could have used a spaceship with a giant holy light cannon for that battle. Just saying.

Perhaps, but then again, this counters the High Elf fanboys' argument that 'There are only 10 Void Elves in total', because I counted every Void Elf NPC in the Battle for Lordaeorn on the Beta, and there were more than 10 Void Elves. And those were just Umbral Rangers, they didn't even bring the various Void Warlocks and Researchers that are in Telogrus Rift. In addition, Void Elves have founded a new order called 'The Riftrunners' that has a presence in Boralus.

[matrix123mko]

If Silver Covenant Elves become playable as an entirely separate Allied Race, then so should Stromic, Lordaeronian and Alteraci Humans. Since, you know, it's the same logic, the Silver Covenant is just an organization.

If you want to play lordaeronian human, the Horde is there waiting for you.

[Deleted]

Also, it's funny that you accuse me of headcanon, when the entire argument of you Highvale fans is based solely on headcanon. Since the Highvale have never been shown with primitive and tribal war paints, tattoos and hairstyles.

I am not saying how exactly they should look, i implied that artistic freedom exists and that you can have different face and body structure without losing your humanity

[Varodoc]

If you want to play lordaeronian human, the Horde is there waiting for you.

There are a few Lordaeronian Humans in Stormwind City that were actually citiziens of Theramore once (a city founded by Lordaeronian and Thalassian survivors), but were evacuated safely.

Living Lordaeronian Humans = Highvale/Silver Covenant. If made playable, they would only steal another race's identity and they are both already playable in the Horde anyway (High Elves are playable in the Alliance too ----> Check Void Elves).

I am not saying how exactly they should look, i implied that artistic freedom exists and that you can have different face and body structure without losing your humanity

But it is your headcanon that these Highvale Elves would start dressing up like savage Forest Trolls, since such an idea has never been mentioned in the lore.

[Gurluas]

That model was a placeholder because the Thalassian model wasn't in the game yet, it has no relevance from a story standpoint.



Aside from the fact that High Elves are playable on both factions and so you are just being whiny at this point, give those tattoos and war paints to High Elves if you really want. But then Blood Elves shoudl also have them, since they also have an order linked closely to nature and that lives in lodges nestled in teh woods. And therefore there is once more the problem that High Elves won't stand out from Blood Elves.


Also, it's funny that you accuse me of headcanon, when the entire argument of you Highvale fans is based solely on headcanon. Since the Highvale have never been shown with primitive and tribal war paints, tattoos and hairstyles.

It's more than tattoos or warpaints. Giving them a different Thalassian elf archetype bodytype would make them different enough to warrant them as an Allied race. Earlier in the thread someone made these, and they're a good example of how you can change the bodytype without changing the race.

[Deleted]

But it is your headcanon that these Highvale Elves would start dressing up like savage Forest Trolls, since such an idea has never been mentioned in the lore.

where did i say that? dont force on me something i didnt say, just because you want to tell me back how i am headcanoning