Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It's true they haven't been using them as much as their mage and Blood Knight themes in recent story developments, but the Farstriders are still a major part of Blood Elf culture. Trying to claim them as something that separates Blood Elves and High Elves is pretty ridiculous.

Don't agree that it separates them personally, but if the context in what we see Farstriders be less relevant is not only plot relevance, but a reflection of their place on BE society, I understand the argument can be made that Playable High Elves could have focused on ranger themes.

Every wow race has organizations for all their classes, but they mostly focus on a couple as cornerstones of their culture, and as relevant Rangers were for elves in general, they have never really been much more than background info.

But let's not frame this as a Pro-High Elf thing. We aren't getting High Elves, so this is personally for me about being disappointed that ranger themes have little relevance in current lore. My main used to be a "Blood Elf Ranger" but it just wasnt interesting to have so little "fantasy" about them , not like my Belf paladin has, ya feel?

It's not really about mechanics though, which is why I don't understand people making that argument. It's about the themes, which in the case of Pandaren justify their neutrality. The fact that the only exception to that issue has a clear reason for being such an exception means that you can't logically apply the same rules to other new races unless their themes also justify neutrality, even if it had been considered successful.

Indeed, I was just pointing out under which parameters the pandaren precedent feels justifiable, which is about mechanics.

Asides that, I personally believe that political ideology is more interesting than racial classification. I find the HE/BE divide even more justifiable than the pandaren one, but that indeed would mean shifting the paradigm that "X race belongs on Y faction" Which is how WoW is constructed. I can disagree with that paradigm, sure, but I am not making decisions about the game. But yeah, personally, I don't like Pandaren because of their neutrality, I would have liked a lot more if they had far better reasons for picking a side -like HE and BE do-

Personally, I'd love playable Eredar/Sargerei, whichever faction -but Horde would be more likely- I'm all about options when it comes to AR as long there's a good story behind it. VE feel like the opposite of that, they just took part of a faction and moved it into the other without the much richer context HE had.

Which as an aside to the aside, keeps me wondering "Why weren't VE made out of the Silver Covenant HE??"

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Since when does every race exhibited within the game need to be playable?

That's the wrong question.

"Why waste narrative real state on non-playable races when that place COULD have been filled with playable races" That's the point. This is BLATANTLY obvious when it comes to High Elves, no other "Non-playable" race has that level of involvement with their faction, none. THAT'S the issue here. The SC has been given a disproportional amount of relevance as a High Elf organization.

Why wasn't the Silver Covenant made of Humans, High Elves and Gnomes? We could still have kept Vereesa as the leader, sure, but by simply framing it as a Dalarani resistance to the horde/blood elves instead of only a High Elf one they could have avoided given them relevance to the perennially non playable High Elves.

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The Silver Covenant and Highvale will suffer such a terrible tragedy that they will either die brutally or accept Alleria's gift and infuse themselves with the Void. This way, Blizzard will finally put an end to this argument that has divided the community for far too long. Mark my words. I have always been right in my predictions. People laughed at me when I predicted playable Void Elves weeks before the leaks even came out. Well, they are not laughing anymore. And, indeed, Blizzard has already foreshadowed this by having seveeral Quel'dorei Wayfarers travel to Telogrus Rift to study the Void extensively.

I hope you are right. It won't answer why Blizz just didn't make the VE out of High Elves tho. Still, that would finally be a narrative solution, which is what I want.

[Enkrypt]

That's the wrong question.

"Why waste narrative real state on non-playable races when that place COULD have been filled with playable races" That's the point. This is BLATANTLY obvious when it comes to High Elves, no other "Non-playable" race has that level of involvement with their faction, none. THAT'S the issue here. The SC has been given a disproportional amount of relevance as a High Elf organization.

Why wasn't the Silver Covenant made of Humans, High Elves and Gnomes? We could still have kept Vereesa as the leader, sure, but by simply framing it as a Dalarani resistance to the horde/blood elves instead of only a High Elf one they could have avoided given them relevance to the perennially non playable High Elves.

I mean, I see what you're getting at... but The Silver Covenant has been around since The Burning Crusade. What narrative real estate, since the inception of Allied Races, has been wasted on the Silver Covenant?

EDIT: The only relevance they even have right now is Vereesa's presence. Her involvement is undoubtedly due to the drama unfolding among the Windrunner sisters and not the SC as a dwindling band of elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

So...I remember somebody telling me that HE crowd takes their talk on US Forums because they'd get torn apart if taken to Reddit yeah? Interesting find then:

Thread title:Y’know what? If the Alliance wants High Elves so bad, I demand Alterac humans for the Horde.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...high_elves_so/

Now some choice comments:

Deal. I am completely fine with this. Alterac did defect from Alliance to Horde and although many were killed, there is nothing stopping Blizzard from doing a bit of retcon to say some of them survived. With BFA, the allied races quest would have them rally and join the Horde to reclaim their lost kingdom. I am perfectly fine with this. It could even be a plot point where to counter Alliance's claims to Lordaeron, Sylvanas goes and supports the Alterac revival, could even use it as propaganda "See, I am not that bad, even humans support me!" 197 upvotes

I was kind of hoping for Blizzard to go bold and give a sect of humans to the Horde and a sect of Orcs to the Alliance. In the end, I lost interest because Dark Iron Dwarves alone are worth the price of admission for me. 83 upvotes

Sure. You can have ogres and forest trolls too, then the WC2 gang is all back together. 17 upvotes

Arent they all dead? If you can find some alterac humans alive you can have them, we dont want those traitors. 106 upvotes

They can always say that there were 3 survivors and all 20000 of them joined the Horde. You know, like void elves. 230 upvotes

I’m pretty sure this thread didn’t have the intended effect.

I’d be cool with this. I think it’s actually a really interesting idea to have two factions of the same race on opposite sides. And I think this would be a more interesting implementation of that idea than the Pandaren. 14 upvotes

That would be great. Hey the alliance wants blood elves that didn't go down the crackwell route? Give us gilneans that supported Lord Godfrey. Felt abandoned by the alliance, they join the horde for revenge, and to get their homeland back in return.

:P 33 upvotes.

I personally have no issue with that, not the slightest. So feel free to campaign for it, you have my support. 154 upvotes

Yeah isn't that kind of the point of allied races? Too create races that don't require, like, any effort at all? Give humans to the Horde, but change some hairstyles, give high elves to Alliance, same thing.

I'm starting to wonder if Blizzard has a central plan for stuff like this, or if one department just decides they want to make cheap and easy races and then another department shuts it down half way through. 22 upvotes

Yeah I don't get the big deal about having a better racial spread and more options for everyone. I guess lots of people want to feel smugly self-superior about people not getting things they want though, even when those things are relatively minor in the grand scheme of the game. 32 upvotes

Honestly, I can understand why NOW they would ask for High Elves, because Blizzard threw every argument against through the window when they gave them grey Belfs.

Its tiring as shit tho.

Now give me Eredars for the Horde and all is forgotten and forgiven.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つGIB EREDARS༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 43 upvotes

And now the comments that knew the OP of the thread was trying to troll :

OP at random made-up strawman in their head: HAHA GOT'EM.

Actual mature players of either or both faction: Yeah that'd probably be fine if Blizzard wanted to swing it. No reason not to have more options. 15 upvotes

You were trying to make ppl who are asking for High Elves being ridicularized, but I guess you didnt see it coming they would lovely accept your deal.

Ppl from Alliance side are not extremists like some ppl on Horde side (mostly those happy Allies didnt get High Elves). 16 upvotes

Imagine being so mad about alliance players wanting high elves that you decided to make a thread like this one lmao

The sad thing is that alliance players wont care if you guys got humans for the Horde in exchange of high elves, but you guys get so salty about it. 25 upvotes

OP thought themselves clever, "this'll really rile em up!" and in reality: "Yeah sure that's cool exchange by us!"

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I mean, I see what you're getting at... but The Silver Covenant has been around since The Burning Crusade. What narrative real estate, since the inception of Allied Races, has been wasted on the Silver Covenant?

EDIT: The only relevance they even have right now is Vereesa's presence. Her involvement is undoubtedly due to the drama unfolding among the Windrunner sisters and not the SC as a dwindling band of elves.

Since Wotlk, actually. They have been using "real state" that could have been used on Gnomes or humans as all three races share the Dalaran context. We could have seen a lot of more gnome content in places like the purge of Dalaran and Isle of Thunder, for example (technomages? would have been cool) Even Night elves since they were already practicing magic again during MoP.

The Silver Covenant has been using "screentime" that could have been given to other alliance races.

Or-

The Silver Covenant COULD have been made an "Allied Race" thus paying off all the time spent on them, and not even as high elves. They could have simply made THEM the Void elves. Which would have given the VE a strong presence in the alliance since 2008.

I just see so many wasted opportunities that make me really disappointed at the end.

[Ithekro]

Allied Races are a monkey's paw situation for the Alliance. Want to Lightforge your draenei? Tough luck, now level up or pony up. Want vrykul? Tough luck, here's fat people. Want High Elves? Go fuck yourselves, have Void Elves instead and we'll pretend the Silver Covenant never existed.

I'm surprised we're getting Dark Irons without a massive fucking "BUT" attached.

There is, the "but" is that you'll never have Wildhammer dwarves as an Allied Race.

[Deleted]

Is a void elf.

Is high elf.. My worgen shadow priest is also not called void worgen.

People who got transformed into half ethereals are called void elves.

Alleria who consumed dead naaru is high elf, who maintained her high elven form

[Combatbutler]

Is high elf.. My worgen shadow priest is also not called void worgen.

People who got transformed into half ethereals are called void elves.

Alleria who consumed dead naaru is high elf, who maintained her high elven form

Alleria consumed more void energy than the void elves and locust walker calls the void elf transformation a similar one to Alleria, so no she is no longer a high elf, she is the racial leader of the void elves.

[Magnagarde]

Void elves are high elves either way. High elves were arcane elves, most became fel elves to a certain extent and the majority are now Light-based elves, while also getting some of the void variety. That being said, Alleria is a high elf of the void variety or well, a void high elf.

I believe it is wrong to consider her strictly a high elf or strictly a void elf; she is clearly both and so are all other high elves.

[Deleted]

Were a mistake in blizzard’s eyes.
How many times must this be repeated?

Poor introduction of draenei as playable alliance race was mistake and blizz never wanted to repeat that. Well you can see how they never repeated that.

Alleria consumed more void energy than the void elves and locust walker calls the void elf transformation a similar one to Alleria, so no she is no longer a high elf, she is the racial leader of the void elves.

nice headcanon about who is infused with more void power.. i say my void worgen with tentacles has more void power than normal looking alleria
also give me normal looking void elves, because "alleria is void elf" and she looks normal

[Enkrypt]

Since Wotlk, actually. They have been using "real state" that could have been used on Gnomes or humans as all three races share the Dalaran context. We could have seen a lot of more gnome content in places like the purge of Dalaran and Isle of Thunder, for example (technomages? would have been cool) Even Night elves since they were already practicing magic again during MoP.

The Silver Covenant has been using "screentime" that could have been given to other alliance races.

Or-

The Silver Covenant COULD have been made an "Allied Race" thus paying off all the time spent on them, and not even as high elves. They could have simply made THEM the Void elves. Which would have given the VE a strong presence in the alliance since 2008.

I just see so many wasted opportunities that make me really disappointed at the end.

I still understand your point. But screentime doesn't seem to necessarily equate to validity as an Allied Race. In fact, it almost feels like the opposite in the case of the Alliance. I really do think they could've done better with Alliance Allied Races, in all truth. Wasted opportunities, indeed, but not directly implied to the Silver Covenant. In my mind, it was a fool's errand to ever believe the Alliance would get Thalassian elves in their original form and shape. For the same reason Alliance won't see Orcs, I believe the same holds true for the Blood Elves and their former kin. For too long have they belonged to a particular faction, and ten years later, it wouldn't serve the direction they obviously want to take the game with faction identity and story.

I still believe something tragic befalls Vereesa, and there may be an unforeseen story element that disbands the Silver Covenant completely. It would reinforce their stance and comments about the population, or possibly even leadership, going into BFA.

I am jealous you guys got Dark Iron Dwarves, though.

[Combatbutler]

nice headcanon about who is infused with more void power.. i say my void worgen with tentacles has more void power than normal looking alleria

Yeah head-canon indeed

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Locus-Walker
Fascinating.

I sensed that change was destined to find Alleria Windrunner, but I did not anticipate that her kin would undergo a similar transformation.

Alleria consumed parts of a void demigod and later a fallen naaru

Arguing that Alleria is a high elf is rather amusing to say the least, she was the first void elf after all and we accompanied her on her journey step by step. Anyone who tries to argue she isn't one lost some marbles on that journey.

[Magnagarde]

Arguing that Alleria is a high elf is rather amusing to say the least

Void elves are high elves though. The guy claiming she's a high elf(ie oldschool Thalassian) is clearly wrong, but void elves are still high elves. In truth, there's very "oldschool" arcane Thalassian high elves left.

Infusion, transformation or changing the school of magic they feed upon doesn't change the fact they're high elves, as are Sylvanas, the Darkfallen, blood elves and whatever other high elf type there is.

[Ithekro]

The argument on Pandaren....the problem was their starting zone neutrality, which gave them no story to ride forwards with in either the Alliance or Horde. That both sides have them is not the problem. The problem is their story is very difficult to tell within the faction environment.

This is not a problem when it comes to High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves. They wouldn't be starting as neutral anyway...you would actively be picking a faction on the character creation screen by picking the appropriate race. Each has their own story to tell already within their respective factions, thus the true problem with the Pandarens being neutral is entirely avoided.

Which basically means that the Elves are not a neutral faction because they don't and won't start out in the some place. They are separate factions of the same race, which is entirely believable because it is already like that in the game, and has been for around a decade or more.

So what's the problem again?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I still understand your point. But screentime doesn't seem to necessarily equate to validity as an Allied Race. In fact, it almost feels like the opposite in the case of the Alliance. I really do think they could've done better with Alliance Allied Races, in all truth. Wasted opportunities, indeed, but not directly implied to the Silver Covenant. In my mind, it was a fool's errand to ever believe the Alliance would get Thalassian elves in their original form and shape. For the same reason Alliance won't see Orcs, I believe the same holds true for the Blood Elves and their former kin. For too long have they belonged to a particular faction, and ten years later, it wouldn't serve the direction they obviously want to take the game with faction identity and story.

I still believe something tragic befalls Vereesa, and there may be an unforeseen story element that disbands the Silver Covenant completely. It would reinforce their stance and comments about the population, or possibly even leadership, going into BFA.

I am jealous you guys got Dark Iron Dwarves, though.

It's not that screentime is related to AR validity.

My complaint is a narrative one: there are so many threads in WoW that seem to go nowhere, so many possibilities that just aren't explored. It's about them being a group that already has a place in the lore, it's about AR serving to pay off that set up.

It's the difference between them and the VE. VE are all cool aesthetic, zero substance. But they were chosen because they look good. Great! they have an unique aesthetic that makes them visually distinctive, but here's the issue, why not give them a better backstory.

Why not tie that backstory to the group of High Elves already in the alliance?

My complaint, at its core, is a lore one, a narrative, one. Them as an AR is a solution to what I see as a hanging thread with potential. A potential I believe I could have been also been fulfilled by making them the Void Elves. Or even NOW making them part of the Void Elves. Or maybe make them half elves.

I'm not someone that wants High Elves to be playable because I just want to look like a belf on the Alliance, I just want the Silver Covenant story to pay off at some point, because they are evidently more than a one off faction, more than just an organization. They are defined by being a pro alliance high elf group, that's a set up worthy of a good pay off -a pay off that doesn't need to be "playable high elves"- The answer is when?

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Yeah head-canon indeed

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Locus-Walker
Fascinating.

I sensed that change was destined to find Alleria Windrunner, but I did not anticipate that her kin would undergo a similar transformation.

Alleria consumed parts of a void demigod and later a fallen naaru

Arguing that Alleria is a high elf is rather amusing to say the least, she was the first void elf after all and we accompanied her on her journey step by step. Anyone who tries to argue she isn't one lost some marbles on that journey.

Alleria is a Void Elf that looks like a High Elf. Why she gets to keep her appearance rather than being forced to get dipped on a vat of blue paint makes obvious that they just wanted VE to look differently, with the justification that her means of transformation are different.

But that she is a Void Elf that looks like a High Elf then means that aesthetics aren't necessary to define a Void Elf, which really hammers the point that VE look like that for non diegetic reasons.

Why didn't they make Alleria just look like the rest of the VE?

[Ithekro]

Because Alleria is awesome and shit? Aside from the red eyes and skull motif, Sylvanas looks more like the Void Elf leader than Alleria.

Which reminds me, shouldn't Vereesa Windrunner get an unique model that looks more in line with her two sisters?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Because Alleria is awesome and shit? Aside from the red eyes and skull motif, Sylvanas looks more like the Void Elf leader than Alleria.

Which reminds me, shouldn't Vereesa Windrunner get an unique model that looks more in line with her two sisters?

Vereesa has to do something important first, or be an important character.

[Lumineus]

Being Rhonin's arm candy already elevates her over 3/4 of the named Blood Elf heroes. I bet if you asked randos in tradechat they'd say Liadrin was the faction leader, kek.

[Rhlor]

You have dismissed my point about the theme not being used on the last few years; I'm saying that the Ranger themes have been underused in comparison to other aspects, like the Blood Knights. As someone that enjoys the ranger themes on elves, its sad to see so little development of them. We could have had the Farstriders have far more meaningful appearances in places like Zandalar, they would have made a great expeditionary force.

rangers are part of the blood elves army in Talador, ranger orestes is in Thas'dorah quest, part of Unseen Path. lorthemar the racial leader is a ranger

[Syegfryed]

You can still enjoy media while criticizing it. It's not an either or no scenario. If I believe the WoW's team narrative choices can be pretty dumb, doesn't mean I have to stop playing or say nothing.

also don't mean we need spam endles until they do what yo want ( HE cult in a nutshel) and if the thing cannot change, your critics will be a waste

Dude, in simple terms, Ion and Blizz could simple have addressed some of the pro-helf points in the Q&A, like the Silver Covenant Elephant. It's literally about just addressing the points the other side is making, which Ion's answer didn't do.

so you can't imagine no reason why he didn't? only "he didn't see it"? maybe because he didn't need to address?? you guys forgt that was not ion decision alone,he sit with other devs and they decide that, the point were passed and discarted, they don't need to address then in the live just to say they are wrong, they are, and become pretty clear

he gave a solid and decent answer, people get mad, end it

Is it really such a hard concept to understand that YOU don't get to decide how other people take offense?

and is hard concept to understand than even if people get offended by something don't mena it was mean to be offensive or it was offensive at all? this look like a SJW conversation

So I'm literally raising a point that I have no issue that the answer was no, but the manner of the response.

And you are saying that MY POINT isn't about that? Really?

you could be fine with a different answer, others people don't, and still get offended

like some people didn't get offended by this answer

again, the cry would be the same in general

I'm saying you agree the point was dissmissable.

thats right

Using "logic" is not the same than "pro high elf points had no worth."Only if you define logic by authoritarianism, which would be pretty damn sad. You can disagree with Blizzard, believe it or not.

i define logic in this subject, by canon lore, their points are no worthy cause it was full of fanfic, headcanon, and ignored all gamplay problems, so they can dismiss that i have no reason to disagree with that

But YOU are so biased that see no merit on any pro-high elf point.

thats no bias, thats logic and my point in about canon lore

the only things worth in the pro-high elf crowd, who have some merit, was the half-elf idea and the idea of skinny elves with no magic, but the marjory of the HE cult suffocate those ideas, and what stay was pretty much not worthy

[Friendlyimmolation]

Being Rhonin's arm candy already elevates her over 3/4 of the named Blood Elf heroes. I bet if you asked randos in tradechat they'd say Liadrin was the faction leader, kek.

What people perceive, =/= the actual importance of the character, perhaps Vereesa could start by actually trying to earn her title.