Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[ls-]

What people perceive, =/= the actual importance of the character, perhaps Vereesa could start by actually trying to earn her title.

What do you mean by earn? She is a Helf and was shagged by a prominent human male, she fulfilled the most important duty of her kind, so she earned everything.

[Byleth]

"we don't want to put in high elves for the alliance period"

You realize of course that Ion did just that, only more politely so as not to make you cry.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

rangers are part of the blood elves army in Talador, ranger orestes is in Thas'dorah quest, part of Unseen Path. lorthemar the racial leader is a ranger

Do you understand the notion of thematic focus? Again, I'm not saying something as silly as Blood Elf rangers having being retconned, I'm saying that they are definitely not the focus of Blood Elven culture and thematic. We have seem Liadrin and her paladins on the vanguard of blood elf conflicts over Lor'thermar leading the fatrstriders for a while now. The magocracy and blood knigths are what is getting the most development, like saying that druids and priests get the most focus on kaldorei culture.

There's a difference between being the cultural cornerstone of a society and background flavor, and throught most of blood elven history, rangers have been treated like an afterthought, like a burden left out from the RTS games, where the High Elves were mostly focused as druidic/ranger culture. For better or worst, that focus has been lost, and it's pretty wild people have trouble understanding that.

Ranger themes are not a focus of Blood Elf development as of now, how is this a contentious argument?

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also don't mean we need spam endles until they do what yo want ( HE cult in a nutshel) and if the thing cannot change, your critics will be a waste

Now you are being pretty limited by thinking that the issue about critiquing WoW's narrative and story issues is simply about High Elves. Are you like against nuance or something?

+1 for the HE cult thing also. You play the role to a T

so you can't imagine no reason why he didn't? only "he didn't see it"? maybe because he didn't need to address?? you guys forgt that was not ion decision alone,he sit with other devs and they decide that, the point were passed and discarted, they don't need to address then in the live just to say they are wrong, they are, and become pretty clear

he gave a solid and decent answer, people get mad, end it

"you guys?" you realize you are taking to one person? It's generalizing your default setting? Good grief, I know this isn't just Ion, I have literally said that. I think it's pretty evidence whomever made the decision decided no points needed to be addressing, and it should be obvious by now that I disagree with that.

If you say you are open to feedback, you should address that feedback when it comes time for it. This is not a controversial notion.

and is hard concept to understand than even if people get offended by something don't mena it was mean to be offensive or it was offensive at all? this look like a SJW conversation

Good lord, we are talking about PR image in here, how are you making it about SJW? We are not talking about "the right to have an opinion" in here, we are talking about a multinational company's lack of tact when it comes to considering feedback. People get offended, you don't decide when or how they do, AS A COMPANY you should try to avoid that on the least, it's good business.

you could be fine with a different answer, others people don't, and still get offended

like some people didn't get offended by this answer

again, the cry would be the same in general

And I'm simply talking about me in here, and how I say Ion's answer as callous and disregarding of any feedback, as other people did as well. I am not talking for those who are okay with his answer, obviously.

To say that the cry would be the same in general either way goes beside the point. It's saying that Blizz shouldn't bother about acknowledging feedback because GD will always be a shitshow, obviously.

i define logic in this subject, by canon lore, their points are no worthy cause it was full of fanfic, headcanon, and ignored all gamplay problems, so they can dismiss that i have no reason to disagree with that

We are not discussing here how irredeemable biased your idea of "logic" is in here.

thats no bias, thats logic and my point in about canon lore

the only things worth in the pro-high elf crowd, who have some merit, was the half-elf idea and the idea of skinny elves with no magic, but the marjory of the HE cult suffocate those ideas, and what stay was pretty much not worthy

There's nothing more hilarious than someone trying to say their opinion is unbiased and based on logic while generalizing the other extreme as a cult (+2 on that by the way)

The facts are simple, the only difference between High Elves and Void Elves is that one of them looks markedly different. Any "lore" reasons you perceive as logic on your part are you fooling yourself by your own bias.

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when in hell you guys will grasp that hairstyle and tattoos don't make then a different race neither make then different enough to be an allied race?

Right? you have to add a stance too, then you get Nightborne!

[Rhlor]

Do you understand the notion of thematic focus? Again, I'm not saying something as silly as Blood Elf rangers having being retconned, I'm saying that they are definitely not the focus of Blood Elven culture and thematic. We have seem Liadrin and her paladins on the vanguard of blood elf conflicts over Lor'thermar leading the fatrstriders for a while now. The magocracy and blood knigths are what is getting the most development, like saying that druids and priests get the most focus on kaldorei culture.

There's a difference between being the cultural cornerstone of a society and background flavor, and throught most of blood elven history, rangers have been treated like an afterthought, like a burden left out from the RTS games, where the High Elves were mostly focused as druidic/ranger culture. For better or worst, that focus has been lost, and it's pretty wild people have trouble understanding that.

Ranger themes are not a focus of Blood Elf development as of now, how is this a contentious argument?

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Now you are being pretty limited by thinking that the issue about critiquing WoW's narrative and story issues is simply about High Elves. Are you like against nuance or something?

+1 for the HE cult thing also. You play the role to a T




"you guys?" you realize you are taking to one person? It's generalizing your default setting? Good grief, I know this isn't just Ion, I have literally said that. I think it's pretty evidence whomever made the decision decided no points needed to be addressing, and it should be obvious by now that I disagree with that.

If you say you are open to feedback, you should address that feedback when it comes time for it. This is not a controversial notion.



Good lord, we are talking about PR image in here, how are you making it about SJW? We are not talking about "the right to have an opinion" in here, we are talking about a multinational company's lack of tact when it comes to considering feedback. People get offended, you don't decide when or how they do, AS A COMPANY you should try to avoid that on the least, it's good business.





And I'm simply talking about me in here, and how I say Ion's answer as callous and disregarding of any feedback, as other people did as well. I am not talking for those who are okay with his answer, obviously.

To say that the cry would be the same in general either way goes beside the point. It's saying that Blizz shouldn't bother about acknowledging feedback because GD will always be a shitshow, obviously.



We are not discussing here how irredeemable biased your idea of "logic" is in here.




There's nothing more hilarious than someone trying to say their opinion is unbiased and based on logic while generalizing the other extreme as a cult (+2 on that by the way)

The facts are simple, the only difference between High Elves and Void Elves is that one of them looks markedly different. Any "lore" reasons you perceive as logic on your part are you fooling yourself by your own bias.

ranger was never the main theme of the high / blood elves since WCIII was a theme more focused on the magical aspects.
but even in WCIII they still had archers

the government of quelthalas is a military dictatorship

[Ithekro]

From the various remaining groups of Alliance allied High Elves I could see the following classed back on existing or potentially existing themes:

Highvale group:

Hunters (obviously)
Rogues
Shaman (if they have been picking up things from the Draenei and Wildhammer dwarves to quell magic addiction)

Outland group:

Warriors
(more Hunters)
Priests (High Elf priest were a thing for the war)

Silver Covenant/Dalaran group:

Mages
(more Hunters)
(more Warriors)
(more Priests)

Stormwind Group:

(More Mages)
(More Warriors)
(More Priests)
Paladins (only if their is a following because of local heroes)
Monks (because Pandaren trainer there)

Non-playable classes:

Warlock
Druid
Death Knight
Demon Hunter

(Shaman and Paladin are only if the location they are in has effected what the locals elves have been learning, much like monk also is a learned class that most races have access. Shaman would come from the Wildhammer and Draenei who are in the Hinterlands area, while Paladin would only be if some of the Stormwind residential elves follow a similar path to Arator and become a paladin.)

[FlubberPuddy]

Do you understand the notion of thematic focus? Again, I'm not saying something as silly as Blood Elf rangers having being retconned, I'm saying that they are definitely not the focus of Blood Elven culture and thematic. We have seem Liadrin and her paladins on the vanguard of blood elf conflicts over Lor'thermar leading the fatrstriders for a while now. The magocracy and blood knigths are what is getting the most development, like saying that druids and priests get the most focus on kaldorei culture.

There's a difference between being the cultural cornerstone of a society and background flavor, and throught most of blood elven history, rangers have been treated like an afterthought, like a burden left out from the RTS games, where the High Elves were mostly focused as druidic/ranger culture. For better or worst, that focus has been lost, and it's pretty wild people have trouble understanding that.

Ranger themes are not a focus of Blood Elf development as of now, how is this a contentious argument?

You just have to give up on this point They're in denial about what Blood Elves are themselves. They think everything and all Thalassian belongs to Blood Elves and nothing else can go to any other variant of Thalassian elf.

Disregarding that High Elves still exist and their ranger/natural wilds aesthetic is stronger than Blood Elves because the Farstriders are hardly relevant compared to the Paladins and Mages of the Blood Elves. That can't be argued but people will try to argue it anyway

Also disregarding that Nightborne step on the "magic addicted elf with fine wine and dining living style" AND that Void Elves still carry the Blood Elven, "greater than thou" personality traits. Heck more people talk about Horde rangers in relation to Sylvanas' Dark Rangers than the Blood Elf Farstriders.

It is funny seeing their responses though.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

ranger was never the main theme of the high / blood elves since WCIII was a theme more focused on the magical aspects.
but even in WCIII they still had archers

the government of quelthalas is a military dictatorship

High Elves first appeared on Warcraft II when literally they had two units (one was an upgrade to the other) Archer and Ranger. Those are the themes with which High Elves were introduced to the franchise, as well as the notion of druidic magi for the runestones. That's why Elven Rangers are so iconic, or at least should be, it's because of War 2. It's literally what Alleria is and STILL represents. That she is based on that first lore themes they were given back on WarII, and how she is in such stark contrast of current BE developments, is pretty evident.

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You just have to give up on this point They're in denial about what Blood Elves are themselves. They think everything and all Thalassian belongs to Blood Elves and nothing else can go to any other variant of Thalassian elf.

Disregarding that High Elves still exist and their ranger/natural wilds aesthetic is stronger than Blood Elves because the Farstriders are hardly relevant compared to the Paladins and Mages of the Blood Elves. That can't be argued but people will try to argue it anyway

Also disregarding that Nightborne step on the "magic addicted elf with fine wine and dining living style" AND that Void Elves still carry the Blood Elven, "greater than thou" personality traits. Heck more people talk about Horde rangers in relation to Sylvanas' Dark Rangers than the Blood Elf Farstriders.

It is funny seeing their responses though.

I'm not one to dismiss anyone's opinions out of hand, nor to disregard any argument I don't personally agree with.

Yet, yeah, there are some evident narrative and thematic choices, that are not even necessarely bad, but evident. Rangers are simply not a focus of the Blood Elves the matically, and I'm baffled at how this is seen as a controversial opinion. And indeed, Sylvanas Dark Rangers are much more relevant as a group than the Farstriders, and I kinda get why they would want to make some of Sylvanas followers more relevant, but still it also occupies the niche Farstriders should.

Would be pretty interesting to actually have seen for the last 12 years some Fastrider/Dark Ranger rivalry, but alas, WoW is not interested in giving elven Rangers any depth, which is a shame for a War2 fan like me.

But "The horde is right there for you" Ion says.

[Ithekro]

All three Windrunner sisters are rangers. Sylvanas has multi-classed (not by choice) into Banshee, while Alleria has specialized in Void magic (plus an unforeseen multi-class into Void Elf). Vareesa hasn't specialized into anything else that I am aware of.

As for the Dark Rangers vs Farstriders, it actually makes some sense for there to be more Dark Rangers since the majority of the Farstriders should have fallen with Sylvanas during the War. There would of course still be some in Outland what when on the Alliance Expedition, and some outlying groups of them around the Eastern Kingdoms. but not all that many around the Homelands, since most of those were the front line fighters with Sylvanas.

[Syegfryed]

Do you understand the notion of thematic focus? Again, I'm not saying something as silly as Blood Elf rangers having being retconned, I'm saying that they are definitely not the focus of Blood Elven culture and thematic.

they are one of the focus, blood elf culture is diverse, you can't just take this aspect and try to shvoe into HE, like is their main thing when they are the same as blood elves, cause they also have the light worship theme, mage theme etc

Now you are being pretty limited by thinking that the issue about critiquing WoW's narrative and story issues is simply about High Elves. Are you like against nuance or something?

im saying you can critique what you want, but is a waste critique something who will not change, who already happened and is set in stone

"you guys?" you realize you are taking to one person?

but the attitude is general, i can say like its plural

If you say you are open to feedback, you should address that feedback when it comes time for it. This is not a controversial notion.

just because he don't untangled and commented all HE points one by one, don't mean he didn't get the feedback, he did, and he made a response who pretty much make all of then null

People get offended, you don't decide when or how they do, AS A COMPANY you should try to avoid that on the least, it's good business.

ffs, i said that don't matter how he worded people would still be offended,b ecause its not how, its about WHY

you can be offended by anything, don't mean it was intended to be or it was offensive, its beyond victimhood by now "wha wha ion being mean BabyRage"

i still need to see someone proving how it was offensive when they just got butthurt because he said no in a straight way

We are not discussing here how irredeemable biased your idea of "logic" is in here.

so?

here's nothing more hilarious than someone trying to say their opinion is unbiased and based on logic while generalizing the other extreme as a cult (+2 on that by the way)

the hilarious thing is the other extreme act indeed like a cult

and all my opinions is based on canon lore not fanfic or headcanon, until you prove something i said when i talked about lore is wrong, cause i bet will be hard to prove that blood elves are not high elves, things like that

The facts are simple, the only difference between High Elves and Void Elves is that one of them looks markedly different. Any "lore" reasons you perceive as logic on your part are you fooling yourself by your own bias.

go further here, cause you just make no sense, the difference between high elves and void elves are beyond appearance

so i wait you to prove all the "lore" is me fooling myself cause bias

Right? you have to add a stance too, then you get Nightborne!

i love the false equivalence of nightborne

Nightborne are to Night elves what void elves to high/blood elves

high elves being playable would be like putting highborne playable in horde with no modifications, again, just to illustrate how your false analogy work

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

All three Windrunner sisters are rangers. Sylvanas has multi-classed (not by choice) into Banshee, while Alleria has specialized in Void magic (plus an unforeseen multi-class into Void Elf). Vareesa hasn't specialized into anything else that I am aware of.

It's not up for debate that High Elf lore was introduced to WoW through ranger themes, with Alleria as a ranger hero. Then in Warcraft 3 those themes were expanded, yet still the most relevant High Elf character was the Ranger General. The last living scion of the Windrunners at the time, Vereesa, styled herself as Ranger General, clearly denoting the cultural importance of those themes, at least for the remaining Alliance High Elves.

Blood Elves, for better or worse, have moved away from their ranger themes. And as someone who's love for Warcraft elves is tied to both Alleria and Sylvanas as elven ranger, it's sad to not see those themes as something important to WoW's lore. One of the reasons I am pro high elf is because they could have been a perfect race to focus on those themes. Alas, that illusion is gone.

Maybe we'll get Half Elves someday and they will harken back to the unused half elven ranger concepts of War II. That they though they could have been a thing since the early 2000 REALLY makes the notion overdue hehe.

[Syegfryed]

From the various remaining groups of Alliance allied High Elves I could see the following classed back on existing or potentially existing themes:

basically taking all blood elf theme classes besides DH and adding shaman for reasons

this is why it will not work

people want the "main nature ranger elf" but also want the magic holy and paladin theme

just play a BE then never was so true

Disregarding that High Elves still exist and their ranger/natural wilds aesthetic is stronger than Blood Elves because the Farstriders are hardly relevant compared to the Paladins and Mages of the Blood Elves. That can't be argued but people will try to argue it anyway

ok, now explain here, how the ranger theme and aesthetic is stronger than blood elves

cause you are just pulling headccanon from whatever place you take then once again

cause just because they are not more relevant than the mages or paladin don't mean they are less relevant that the HE rangers, this is asinine

High Elves first appeared on Warcraft II when literally they had two units (one was an upgrade to the other) Archer and Ranger. Those are the themes with which High Elves were introduced to the franchise, as well as the notion of druidic magi for the runestones. That's why Elven Rangers are so iconic, or at least should be, it's because of War 2. It's literally what Alleria is and STILL represents. That she is based on that first lore themes they were given back on WarII, and how she is in such stark contrast of current BE developments, is pretty evident.

the high elves ranger of warcraft 2, thei theme, and everything else is pretty much ok and shoved in the blood elf theme, not in the rndom HE npcs despite veressa

also, the druid thing never get out of the paper, scrapped

[Ithekro]

As I mentioned, I would think the majority of the Farstriders would have fallen with Sylvanas defending their homeland, thus making for the potential to be a lot of Dark Rangers. The remains of the Farstriders would be those in the outlying areas of the Eastern Kingdoms, some that fell back into Silvermoon as the Scourge walked past them to the Sunwell, and those in the Alliance Expedition in Outland. Kael picked up some of those in Silvermoon and some of the outlying areas on his way to and from Dalaran. Others stayed in Dalaran, or ventured their later on (Silvermoon not being safe for a long time). Others stayed in Alliance territory and have since been helping dwarves and humans. The few that survived in Silvermoon and some of the closer outlying areas are what is left of the Blood Elf Farstriders. The rest are with the Alliance (because we done killed most of Kael's forces), or serving the Banshee Queen as Dark Rangers, who could honestly be the majority of them if Blizzard had any guts on the matter of giving the Horde access to Undead Elves (who would probably lorewise outnumber the Blood Elves, because Arthas and Sylvanas can raise a lot of dead people over the years.)

[FlubberPuddy]

I'm not one to dismiss anyone's opinions out of hand, nor to disregard any argument I don't personally agree with.

Yet, yeah, there are some evident narrative and thematic choices, that are not even necessarely bad, but evident. Rangers are simply not a focus of the Blood Elves the matically, and I'm baffled at how this is seen as a controversial opinion. And indeed, Sylvanas Dark Rangers are much more relevant as a group than the Farstriders, and I kinda get why they would want to make some of Sylvanas followers more relevant, but still it also occupies the niche Farstriders should.

Would be pretty interesting to actually have seen for the last 12 years some Fastrider/Dark Ranger rivalry, but alas, WoW is not interested in giving elven Rangers any depth, which is a shame for a War2 fan like me.

But "The horde is right there for you" Ion says.

Not to dismiss opposing opinions outright at all, but as you said it's very clear Rangers are not the thematic focus of Blood Elves. For others to fight on this point is when you can tell at that point they aren't thinking logically at what is present in-game now vs what was introduced before. Plus from the beginning of Blood Elf involvement in WoW their magocracy and paladin themes were at the forefront of it all.

All three Windrunner sisters are rangers. Sylvanas has multi-classed (not by choice) into Banshee, while Alleria has specialized in Void magic (plus an unforeseen multi-class into Void Elf). Vareesa hasn't specialized into anything else that I am aware of.

As for the Dark Rangers vs Farstriders, it actually makes some sense for there to be more Dark Rangers since the majority of the Farstriders should have fallen with Sylvanas during the War. There would of course still be some in Outland what when on the Alliance Expedition, and some outlying groups of them around the Eastern Kingdoms. but not all that many around the Homelands, since most of those were the front line fighters with Sylvanas.

Hmm, you bring up a good point. Could it be this is why we see more about Dark Rangers than still living Farstriders, because the majority of Farstriders from before are now Dark Rangers? Never thought about it that way.

It's not up for debate that High Elf lore was introduced to WoW through ranger themes, with Alleria as a ranger hero. Then in Warcraft 3 those themes were expanded, yet still the most relevant High Elf character was the Ranger General. The last living scion of the Windrunners at the time, Vereesa, styled herself as Ranger General, clearly denoting the cultural importance of those themes, at least for the remaining Alliance High Elves.

Blood Elves, for better or worse, have moved away from their ranger themes. And as someone who's love for Warcraft elves is tied to both Alleria and Sylvanas as elven ranger, it's sad to not see those themes as something important to WoW's lore. One of the reasons I am pro high elf is because they could have been a perfect race to focus on those themes. Alas, that illusion is gone.

Maybe we'll get Half Elves someday and they will harken back to the unused half elven ranger concepts of War II. That they though they could have been a thing since the early 2000 REALLY makes the notion overdue hehe.

On your last point, don't sweat it. WoW has a plethora of things that aren't used yet. Doesn't mean they won't ever be used, but as I am now doing: better to enjoy the game for what it is now than trying to feverently hope for things that may or may not come. For instance, I still hope for Alliance High Elves one day, but for now I'll continue enjoying what I already do from the game.

[Ithekro]

basically taking all blood elf theme classes besides DH and adding shaman for reasons

this is why it will not work

people want the "main nature ranger elf" but also want the magic holy and paladin theme

Other people want nature themed ranger elves. I'm dealing with what is logical from what forces are presented as High Elves plus where they are located.

Warriors (given)
Hunters (given)
Rogues (probably...as a non-magic class, but it is entirely possible there are no High Elf rogues, those closest to that were rangers, thus Hunters)
Priest (given, there were high elf priest units back in the day. The Blood Knights were angry priests that had lost faith in the Light and were talked into stealing the Light by force...at first anyway).
Mages (give since we are talking major Alliance based High Elf forces and mages at very present.)
Monk (kind of seems to happen to all the races that have had access to Pandarens)
Paladin (not required but possible due to those living in Stormwind as well as Arator being a role model for such a move)
Shaman (not required but possible due to the Highvale Elves forgoing magic, but living near the Wildhammer and Draenei might get into Shamanism as an alternative to the arcane)

That is five for sure classes and eight possible classes total. There are four classes they would not be at all, Death Knights, Demon Hunters, Warlocks, and Druids. Those are right out.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

they are one of the focus, blood elf culture is diverse, you can't just take this aspect and try to shvoe into HE, like is their main thing when they are the same as blood elves, cause they also have the light worship theme, mage theme etc

That response wasn't meant for you, and otherwise, it is not something in which I particularly need or want your input.

im saying you can critique what you want, but is a waste critique something who will not change, who already happened and is set in stone

Yeah, I'm not going to talk about critiquing media with you anymore lol.

but the attitude is general, i can say like its plural

That, or you are using me as a proxy to make your discharges against the pro high elf community, which lol, no.

just because he don't untangled and commented all HE points one by one, don't mean he didn't get the feedback, he did, and he made a response who pretty much make all of then null

Such a zero or nada approach. You keep responding like hoping Ion and Blizz would have addressed at least some of the pro high elf arguments (like population compared to VE and the existence of the Silver Covenant) is just too much or not worthy of being addressed at all. Which as we have established, comes form your utter dismissal of any pro HE argument. Such an impasse.

Yet beyond such limitation, you still don't even think good PR should be a thing lol.

ffs, i said that don't matter how he worded people would still be offended,b ecause its not how, its about WHY

you can be offended by anything, don't mean it was intended to be or it was offensive, its beyond victimhood by now "wha wha ion being mean BabyRage"

i still need to see someone proving how it was offensive when they just got butthurt because he said now in a straight way

I don't know how to keep telling you the simple point I made about how Ion's dismissal of any pro high elf arguments, as in, he didn't address any of them, didn't sit well with some people, including me. Now you are calling the whole thing a victim complex and dear lord you are tiring. It feels like I used the term offense to describe discontent and I lost you to the WHINING! SAFE SPACES! mentality.

the hilarious thing is the other extreme act indeed like a cult

and all my opinions is based on canon lore not fanfic or headcanon, until you prove something i said when i talked about lore is wrong, cause i bet will be hard to prove that blood elves are not high elves, things like that

*rubs temple* I really don't really care about what you think it's a cult.

You keep saying that "your opinions are based on canon lore" but refuse to accept that the Silver Covenant is an alliance faction of High Elves with patently more numbers than Void Elves.

go further here, cause you just make no sense, the difference between high elves and void elves are beyond appearance

so i wait you to prove all the "lore" is me fooling myself cause bias

Because you keep thinking there's a lore reason behind this when it's simply an aesthetic choice. VE look a lot more different to BE and HE, even when lorewise they were Blood Elves until 3 months ago. It's hilarious you still think there's a lore reason why we got one over the other. It's merely aesthetic, perhaps thematic, in which case I would have preferred Void Krokul.

i love the false equivalence of nightborne

Nightborne are to Night elves what void elves to high/blood elves

high elves being playable would be like putting highborne playable in horde with no modifications, again, just to illustrate how your false analogy work

Hhahahah. Okay, so if they would have made HE playable, changed their hairstyles and tattoos, their body frame and stance... Wouldn't that have been literally the same aesthetic approach that NB are to NE? Oh my god.

[Traveler Voltin]

“Let’s change lore to fit my demands ” -high elf zealot fans

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Not to dismiss opposing opinions outright at all, but as you said it's very clear Rangers are not the thematic focus of Blood Elves. For others to fight on this point is when you can tell at that point they aren't thinking logically at what is present in-game now vs what was introduced before. Plus from the beginning of Blood Elf involvement in WoW their magocracy and paladin themes were at the forefront of it all.

Indeed, I was just being hopeful in a way.

On your last point, don't sweat it. WoW has a plethora of things that aren't used yet. Doesn't mean they won't ever be used, but as I am now doing: better to enjoy the game for what it is now than trying to feverently hope for things that may or may not come. For instance, I still hope for Alliance High Elves one day, but for now I'll continue enjoying what I already do from the game.

Definitelly agree, while ranger themes may always be a sore spot for me, it's literally just a spot lol. I main horde and with all the amazingness we are getting for BFA, I am pumped as fuck. I like blood elf paladins as a righteous equivalent to the humans, makes it clear no one is the true master of the light. Not really excited for anything alliance side, but I will still level my ally main, Kul'tiras looks good

[Rhlor]

High Elves first appeared on Warcraft II when literally they had two units (one was an upgrade to the other) Archer and Ranger. Those are the themes with which High Elves were introduced to the franchise, as well as the notion of druidic magi for the runestones. That's why Elven Rangers are so iconic, or at least should be, it's because of War 2. It's literally what Alleria is and STILL represents. That she is based on that first lore themes they were given back on WarII, and how she is in such stark contrast of current BE developments, is pretty evident.

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I'm not one to dismiss anyone's opinions out of hand, nor to disregard any argument I don't personally agree with.

Yet, yeah, there are some evident narrative and thematic choices, that are not even necessarely bad, but evident. Rangers are simply not a focus of the Blood Elves the matically, and I'm baffled at how this is seen as a controversial opinion. And indeed, Sylvanas Dark Rangers are much more relevant as a group than the Farstriders, and I kinda get why they would want to make some of Sylvanas followers more relevant, but still it also occupies the niche Farstriders should.

Would be pretty interesting to actually have seen for the last 12 years some Fastrider/Dark Ranger rivalry, but alas, WoW is not interested in giving elven Rangers any depth, which is a shame for a War2 fan like me.

But "The horde is right there for you" Ion says.

I know, but blizzard decided in warcraft III that the main theme is magicians

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I know, but blizzard decided in warcraft III that the main theme is magicians

And what that has to do with me missing the ranger themes, I wonder.

[Syegfryed]

That response wasn't meant for you, and otherwise, it is not something in which I particularly need or want your input.

regardless was a point that i wanted to correct

Yeah, I'm not going to talk about critiquing media with you anymore lol.

what the reason to criquite things who will not change? is like critiquing how draeneis got retconed and blood elves were given to the horde in TBC

you can, but why? what the meaning? its a waste

Such a zero or nada approach. You keep responding like hoping Ion and Blizz would have addressed at least some of the pro high elf arguments (like population compared to VE and the existence of the Silver Covenant) is just too much or not worthy of being addressed at all. Which as we have established, comes form your utter dismissal of any pro HE argument. Such an impasse.

he did address a lot of points

>HE fans claim that HE and BE are different

he confirme once again that they are the same race with a bit of different backstory

>HE fans claim that population don't matter cause muh elves

HE just said still matter, and there are not tons of HE like people tough

>He fans claim that they could ADD HE just fine cause its easy and there are no problem in that

he said it would blur the factions and the team think factions matter

>HE fans claim that BE and HE ahve different themes

He said they haven't, and if you want to play the HE fantasie you will need to play horde cause its there where you find it

you want MORE? what more points? the rest was just irrelevant

*rubs temple* I really don't really care about what you think it's a cult.

then you should not bring that up after i saided, cause it seems you cared a bit

You keep saying that "your opinions are based on canon lore" but refuse to accept that the Silver Covenant is an alliance faction of High Elves with patently more numbers than Void Elves.

i know the silver covenant is a faction of high elves, end

do you ahve canon prove to affirm that the number of elves in the silver covenant is more than the number of void elves? cause we don't have, we could even said the VE numbers are more, cause its a group of people exiled from the blood elves, a group coming from the marjory and bulky of the HE society

Silver covenant elves are veressa followers, who have losses everytime they appear without conditions to replenish their losses

Because you keep thinking there's a lore reason behind this when it's simply an aesthetic choice.

its not about aesthetic alone

its just a joint of different reasons, who are gameplay, aesthetic and lore

just because one of the lore reasons is debunked don't mean the others will fall apart too

Hhahahah. Okay, so if they would have made HE playable, changed their hairstyles and tattoos, their body frame and stance... Wouldn't that have been literally the same aesthetic approach that NB are to NE? Oh my god.

if they became different enough? like the night elves are totally different from nightborne? then yes, obviously

yet, the He fans would still cry cause they looked different

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Other people want nature themed ranger elves. I'm dealing with what is logical from what forces are presented as High Elves plus where they are located.

aand the point is people don't want the "nature themed ranger elves" they want everything the elf archetype represent

the "ranger nature theme" is just to foolish people like a mask

besides, this theme is already occupied by night elves and blood elves farstriders, not HE