Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Darththeo]

I have never seen even a single person demand Draenei with different eye color. Not a one person demanding blue Eredar. Have you? Or did you just assume they do? Have you polled them?

Archimonde says Hi. I guess you never raided in WoD. Hell, other Blue eradar appeared in BC. Seriously, what the ****?

And you are assuming that people don't want to make Archimonde rip offs? Yeah ... because Death Knights players don't want to ripoff Arthas and Demon Hunters don't want to be Illidian. I am assuming that WoW players like to model themselves off lore figures ... you are assuming based on nothing.

[protip]

First off, I am not an Alliance Player. I have stated that in this topic in fact. I do have alliance toons, but I only play 2 while I have far more Horde toons I play. I don't care if the Alliance gets High Elves or not, I just don't accept the reason as sound.

Secondly, while not as vocal, there are Horde players who have asked for certain Alliance races to be playable on the Horde. In fact, prior to the announcement of Dark Iron for the Alliance, some were considering they could go Horde. There are still people who want Man'ari Eredar playable on the Horde as well. High Elves just have had a larger presence on the Alliance and thus have more fans in the franchise who want them playable.

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BC: Shaman and Paladin given to opposite faction. Typical Alliance style race given to Horde.
WotLK: Horde and Alliance mainly worked together even against a Rogue Horde Faction. Hell, even an important Alliance Faction in the expansion was made of High Elves.
Cata: Typical Horde style race given to Alliance.
MoP: Pandaren given to both factions.
BfA: Opposing factions get offshoot of the opposite faction Elf race.

Yeah ... it's "just" pandaren that blur faction lines.

Again, it doesn't need to be a Belf skin tone ... just one maybe with a slight purple tint as opposed to the full on purple skin.

You're projecting the old idea of savage versus civilized onto faction identity. You're right that that theme isn't as important as it used to be, but faction identity was never bound to that single thematic difference. Faction identity changed. The two factions are still different. The fundamental idea of faction identity is that they are two sets of mutually exclusive options. That's the very core design of the game.

Even Pandaren are an exclusive option in the fact that their neutrality is only available if you play a Pandaren. Nightborne are exclusive to the Horde, and have significant thematic changes from night elves. Void elves are significantly different from the Blood Elves, because they have taken a theme and pushed it to the extreme in an effort to make that difference significant. That exaggerated theme is what makes them an exclusively Alliance race.

High Elves do not have strong themes like that. More importantly, everything that makes a high elf a high elf, is also part of what makes a Blood Elf a Blood Elf. Blood Elves gave up none of the high elf fantasy. The only thing that Blood Elves do not have, and High Elves do, is an allegiance to the Alliance.

[Deleted]

Oh, I am ignorant and making irrelevant comparisons? Comes from the people that compare High Elves allied race demands to Eredar allied race demands.

i never said anything like this, another generalization

[Syegfryed]

well you have proven yourself to be ignorant, having irrelevant comparisons and generalizing what people want, why would anyone waste their time?

did you do that on purpose? cause i giggle about the irony

[Darththeo]

too much corrupted

pretty sure archimond is grey and corrupted, not blue like the draeneis

beside she is the only one

He's blue! Yes, he is a grayish blue, but his skin tone didn't change much from before he was corrupted.

Also he is not. http://www.wowhead.com/npc=20879/eredar-soul-eater

[Syegfryed]

He's blue! Yes, he is a grayish blue, but his skin tone didn't change much from before he was corrupted.

taking count the last raid he appear e is pretty much grey

Also he is not. http://www.wowhead.com/npc=20879/eredar-soul-eater

Eredar and not manari yet

i checked the wiki and the only manary "grey" is archimond still

[Darththeo]

You're projecting the old idea of savage versus civilized onto faction identity. You're right that that theme isn't as important as it used to be, but faction identity was never bound to that single thematic difference. Faction identity changed. The two factions are still different. The fundamental idea of faction identity is that they are two sets of mutually exclusive options. That's the very core design of the game.

Even Pandaren are an exclusive option in the fact that their neutrality is only available if you play a Pandaren. Nightborne are exclusive to the Horde, and have significant thematic changes from night elves. Void elves are significantly different from the Blood Elves, because they have taken a theme and pushed it to the extreme in an effort to make that difference significant. That exaggerated theme is what makes them an exclusively Alliance race.

High Elves do not have strong themes like that. More importantly, everything that makes a high elf a high elf, is also part of what makes a Blood Elf a Blood Elf. Blood Elves gave up none of the high elf fantasy. The only thing that Blood Elves do not have, and High Elves do, is an allegiance to the Alliance.

That's not entirely true, and you know it. High Elves chose not to use Fel magics for their addiction. Blood Elves and High Elves are as different as Void Elves and Blood Elves ... you just accept one as extreme and not the other.

Also, just because there are sets of choices doesn't mean faction identity exists. That doesn't follow.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Archimonde says Hi. I guess you never raided in WoD. Hell, other Blue eradar appeared in BC. Seriously, what the ****?

And you are assuming that people don't want to make Archimonde rip offs? Yeah ... because Death Knights players don't want to ripoff Arthas and Demon Hunters don't want to be Illidian. I am assuming that WoW players like to model themselves off lore figures ... you are assuming based on nothing.

I never said there are no blue Eredars. I know who Archimonde is tyvm. You are the one here assuming too much. IF you read some of those threads demanding Eredar as allied race you would see that what people are asking for are the red demons and not one person mentions they want to look like Archimonde. But yeah tell me again how bad my assumptions are and how yours are totally valid. And Eredars as part of the Horde would be the same as Void Elves as part of the Alliance. Both have enough additional features that differ them from the base race. High Elves do not.

[Darththeo]

taking count the last raid he appear e is pretty much grey


Eredar and not manari yet

i checked the wiki and the only manary "grey" is archimond still

You are aware that Man'ari are eredar and they use Eredar in the name in game rather than Man'ari?

Example: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=90661/eredar-supplicant - Says Eredar ... guess he isn't Man'ari!

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I never said there are no blue Eredars. I know who Archimonde is tyvm. You are the one here assuming too much. IF you read some of those threads demanding Eredar as allied race you would see that what people are asking for are the red demons and not one person mentions they want to look like Archimonde. But yeah tell me again how bad my assumptions are and how yours are totally valid. And Eredars as part of the Horde would be the same as Void Elves as part of the Alliance. Both have enough additional features that differ them from the base race. High Elves do not.

And people are asking for Draenei Warlocks ... which Lorewise would be Man'ari ... and gameplay wise would be blue. So what's your point? You like to pick and choose facts? I am not ignoring that people want Red Fel Skin Eredar. I am admitting that based on the facts, people also would want to play like a Lore Character. If they were to make Man'ari Eredar playable on the Horde, I would bet you just like Void Elf people would be asking for a skin tone closer to the base race.

[Syegfryed]

You are aware that Man'ari are eredar and they use Eredar in the name in game rather than Man'ari?

Example: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=90661/eredar-supplicant - Says Eredar ... guess he isn't Man'ari!

eredar is the generic name of the race

draeneis are eredar

manari are the demonic/corrupted eredar, not rly the "original" eredar, so they still can call thenselves like that

[Darththeo]

eredar is the generic name of the race

draeneis are eredar

manari are the demonic/corrupted eredar, not rly the "original" eredar, so they still can call thenselves like that

I am aware, but you can't make the argument you did. That's all I was pointing out. You can't assume based on name alone he isn't Man'ari.

That NPC is align with the Burning Legion and given Archimonde is still blue (he isn't gray anymore than my eyes are gray. My eyes are basically the same tone as Archimonde's skin) ... he is likely Man'ari.

[protip]

That's not entirely true, and you know it. High Elves chose not to use Fel magics for their addiction. Blood Elves and High Elves are as different as Void Elves and Blood Elves ... you just accept one as extreme and not the other.

Also, just because there are sets of choices doesn't mean faction identity exists. That doesn't follow.

Blood Elves didn't use fel magic for their addiction. They siphoned arcane energy from living beings. The only instances of fel radiation were from 1) the corruption of the Sunwell after the resurrection of Kel'Thuzad (over the period of time that it took Kael'thas to hear about the invasion and return to Quel'Thalas), and 2) fel radiation from using demonic crystals to power buildings. Only a few Blood Elves actually used the fel.

Also, the mutual exclusivity of of races is exactly what faction identity refers to. The fact that races are exclusive is direct proof that faction identity exists. If races are exclusive, and you propose a race that is already exclusive to the other faction, you are contradicting an existing construct. You can argue that it's not important, if you like, but it most definitely exists.

[Darththeo]

Blood Elves didn't use fel magic for their addiction. They siphoned arcane energy from living beings. The only instances of fel radiation were from 1) the corruption of the Sunwell after the resurrection of Kel'Thuzad (over the period of time that it took Kael'thas to hear about the invasion and return to Quel'Thalas), and 2) fel radiation from using demonic crystals to power buildings. Only a few Blood Elves actually used the fel.

Also, the mutual exclusivity of of races is exactly what faction identity refers to. The fact that races are exclusive is direct proof that faction identity exists. If races are exclusive, and you propose a race that is already exclusive to the other faction, you are contradicting an existing construct. You can argue that it's not important, if you like, but it most definitely exists.

I am not saying that doesn't exist. I am saying it isn't proof that faction identity is a thing. Do you not understand the difference?

[JustaRandomReindeer]

You are aware that Man'ari are eredar and they use Eredar in the name in game rather than Man'ari?

Example: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=90661/eredar-supplicant - Says Eredar ... guess he isn't Man'ari!

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And people are asking for Draenei Warlocks ... which Lorewise would be Man'ari ... and gameplay wise would be blue. So what's your point? You like to pick and choose facts? I am not ignoring that people want Red Fel Skin Eredar. I am admitting that based on the facts, people also would want to play like a Lore Character. If they were to make Man'ari Eredar playable on the Horde, I would bet you just like Void Elf people would be asking for a skin tone closer to the base race.

Let's have that bet then.

[Syegfryed]

I am aware, but you can't make the argument you did. That's all I was pointing out. You can't assume based on name alone he isn't Man'ari.

until now the only "true" manari grey is archimonde, since is what the wiki imply, and maybe that eredar from that argent crusade raid

maybe he is just a corrupted eredar, and not a manari yet, like there are just red fel orcs who are not demonic orcs with spikes yet, stages of corruption

i say its more about blizz inconsistency, but i think the point is, gving HE to alliance would be like giving blue eredar to horde( not the red ones) and its bad anyway.

[protip]

I am not saying that doesn't exist. I am saying it isn't proof that faction identity is a thing. Do you not understand the difference?

Ok, so it exists, and they have explained that they want factions to remain distinct. What more can you possibly want? At minimum, if you're trying to argue that it isn't a thing, you're going to have to give some kind of evidence other than "Oh, they're just lying."

[Deleted]

Just thinking again, why void elves are the only allied race without tattoos, when their leader, guru,Alleria Windrunner has her blue markings? Wouldnt it make sense, that allerias fanboys would paint themselves? Especially when she is a VOID elf according to everyone here.

[RangerDaz]

Hum, no one answered to my previous post on page 224.

I'm going to repost it, because it shows one explanation how Alliance High Elves, Blood Elves and Void Elves and splitting in different directions:
(if you want to read the full post, just click on the redirect icon)

After a lot of thinking, i just realized Elves and their Troll ancestors are affected and "tainted" or "forged" by all the six main powers listed in the first book of Chronicles. Check out:



(...)

So High Elves are Arcane Elves, just like the Nightborne are and how Naga once were as well, before becoming corrupted.
Just like High Elves got the arcane sunwell the Highborne got the nightwell.

(...)

After the events of the Burning Crusade, the Sunwell got purified with holy power and the holy power started infusing Blood Elves with holy magic, as we can see now in their holy colored eyes. These high elves, aka blood elves, are now tainted by holy energy.

On the other side there were other elves that heard the call of the void. the void elf introduction scenario explains what happened to them. They are now elves tainted by shadow energy.

So right now the only arcane tainted elves are night elf mages, nightborne and alliance high elves (the main reason of the high elf blue eyes). For that reason, i consider Alliance high Elves different from Blood Elves.

Focusing only on Night Elves, Nightborne and Quel'thalas Elves, here are the main magics that tainted them:

NATURE: Kaldorei (Night Elves)
ARCANE: Quel'dorei (Alliance High Elves) + Shal'dorei (Nightborne) + Highborne Kaldorei (Night Elf Mages)
HOLY: Sin'dorei (Blood Elves)
VOID: Ren'dorei (Void Elves)
NECROMANTIC: Undead Elves (Sylvanas, Undead High Elves, Dark Rangers, San'layn,...)
FEL (HOSTILE): Felborne + Felblood Elves

I guess this explains why Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves are going in different directions. So there are other lore differences that are relevant, besides the faction war and the events the silver coventant appeared like the argent tournament, purge of dalaran, isle of thunder and freeing suramar.

[Ithekro]

until now the only "true" manari grey is archimonde, since is what the wiki imply, and maybe that eredar from that argent crusade raid

maybe he is just a corrupted eredar, and not a manari yet, like there are just red fel orcs who are not demonic orcs with spikes yet, stages of corruption

i say its more about blizz inconsistency, but i think the point is, gving HE to alliance would be like giving blue eredar to horde( not the red ones) and its bad anyway.

Prince Malchezaar is also blue.

Warbringer Razuun is blue.

Lady Sacrolash is a blueish-purple.

Levixus is blue

Adept Vatrusta is blue

Do you want me to go on?


However the point that was being made was that The Horde doesn't currently have a race that is primarily on the Alliance within their ranks that is not playable. The Alliance have such a thing, they are called High Elves. A race that is not playable on the Alliance but is part of the Alliance. The playable faction is Blood Elves in the Horde. That they exist in the Alliance as unplayable is the frustration being addressed here, because they exist in the Alliance. Something the Horde has never had to deal with. The closest thing to that was before Goblins became playable. You saw them all the time, but you couldn't play as them on the Horde. Now you can. Ogres are the other race the Horde wants that they can see but not (as of yet) play, and that one at least as a reasonable argument of them being too tall and would run into doorways even more so that Tauren do presently.

The High Elves being in the Alliance and not playable is basically just wrong. You can drum up any excuse about faction walls or any other sort of bullshit you want, but that doesn't stop them from existing, nor people wanting to play as them. The faction wall argument is meaningless because the High Elves exist as part of the Alliance already....playable or not. They are there.

Before Allied Races became a thing, the population and starter zone arguments made sense. There aren't enough High Elves left to fill out one or two starting zones like you would for most other playable races before Allied Races were introduced. That is at least somewhat reasonable. The neutral route have the High Elves and Blood Elves share their starting zones never made sense to me as the lore reasoning for the High Elves being still in the Alliance meant that they left prior to the introduction questing for the Blood Elves. They would need a different starting zone. Either a shared one with say the Humans (similar to how Gnomes or Trolls started with the Dwarves or Orcs respectively), or Blizzard would need to craft some new zones, which didn't seem all that reasonable after the CATA revamp (the Stratholm area still needs an update and the Blood Elves zones need to be added to the Eastern Kingdoms, because dammit Blizzard you break immersion with that invisible wall and instance portal).

However after the introduction of Allied Races, the population and starter zone arguments became moot. You don't need to fill out a whole zone or two with High Elves to make them be believable. You need a tiny creation and introduction hub, which could be a mid-sized room with a portal to Stormwind, of even a room in Stormwind for all it matters. The faction wall nonsense is just that, nonsense. The High Elves are already in the Alliance, that breaks the wall to begin with and has nothing to do with them being playable. Their existence break it.

[Highwhale]

Just thinking again, why void elves are the only allied race without tattoos, when their leader, guru,Alleria Windrunner has her blue markings? Wouldnt it make sense, that allerias fanboys would paint themselves? Especially when she is a VOID elf according to everyone here.

Void tattoos would be sick!