Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[bowlink]

Even lore heavy peeps like Red Shirt Guy chimed in on how soured they felt over Ion's response because it's plain as day to see that Void Elves existence screws up every reason Ion gave. Not that he minds Void Elves as an okay compromise. So it's pretty clear the main annoyance from most, even peeps like Taliesin is just: Own up to it bro.

I think people are rightfully pointing out that it would've been a lot better to just admit, "hey we don't want to do em" instead of the ignorant response Ion gave. I mean he literally said the exact same stuff he said at Blizzcon, meaning he hasn't refuted any of the reasons given for inclusion of High Elves.

thank you. but sadly their doing damage control and we all know well blizzard does that.

real idea 1.0 where a CM's Personal info was used to harras to prove a point
the Azeroth Choppers Fiasco. where they had freaking chris metzen on the alliance camp because they couldn't find anyone better, while he was the horde poster boy at the time.
flying not gonna into detail we all know what happend.

Blizzard needs to suck it up and own up to it.

[ercarp]

I actually like second hairstyle the most. Sixth mark is sick!

Thanks! I tried to go for a Marilyn Monroe kind of hairstyle with that.

Would 100% date 3A and 3B

And 3C gets elf-zoned. Pah!

Don't worry about posting too much art. This is an art post thread. Just look at the OP. Part of what I wanted was for other people to post their art!
The #3 mustache has a VERY different feel from Blood Elves. I could never imagine them wearing something like that. A perfect High Elf look for a people that have been hanging out with humans.

These hair styles are excellent. They feel very different from what we have with Blood Elves. The beads and feathers were a nice touch. Love the shaving into the side of the hair.

Cheers. The feathers were a good call -- props to @FlubberPuddy for suggesting it. I want to do more with beads and feathers for both genders.

[FlubberPuddy]

I want to chime in on the Gold Eye BE topic too. Blizzard has admitted that going forward, you will see BE Paladins and Priests having the Gold Eyes, all other NPC BEs are still going to have the Fel Green.

They just also made it available to all Players, whether the player wants to put it on a BE Warlock is up to them for instance.

But Blizzard themselves are actually only giving the eyes to Paladins and Priests to show the forward progression from the Sunwell story. Doesn't mean every BE can now have Gold Eyes, playable ones can because it's more a gameplay choice to allow all types of BEs to have it (imagine the shit show if only Paladin and Priest BEs could access it?) but NPC ones it's dedicated to those closest to the Light.

Why won't they add Blue Eyes to BEs? Simple, another gameplay reason, to differentiate from High Elves - whether on Alliance or neutral. As you can see with the BE mouth fixes, if Blue Eyes were on the table for BEs it would've happened at the same time as the Gold Eyes.

Also just because the Sunwell is made of Holy Light and arcane, doesn't mean for instance the Holy Light can't overpower the arcane portion of it. Here is proof:

Nightborne Allied Race Unlock Scenario:

Time: 9:13

Thalyssra: The sense of power is palpable. As potent as the Nightwell, but of a different nature.

Liadrin: The Sunwell was corrupted by our enemies, but a naaru's sacrifice purified its waters. Now the essence of the Light sustains us.

I mean be as biased as you want, but clearly the game, developers, and lore are showing that the Holy Light portion of the Sunwell is more overriding than the arcane, even if both are still present.

It's also why in the Chronicles Vol 3 passage about the renewed Sunwell, it says it's a mixture of the Holy Light and arcane. Notice how it gives a proper noun to the light portion? This is to emphasize the power of that specific magic.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Light

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Arcane

Arcane magic is just the lifeblood of Azeroth:

Volatile arcane energies is described as the lifeblood of the nascent titan of Azeroth.[14]

Wheres the Holy Light is actually some big dick level of magic:

The Light (also known as the Holy Light,[1][2][3] Holy Light of Creation[4] and light of Creation[5]) is an endless, shimmering sea of energy situated outside the barriers of reality and one of the two most fundamental forces in the world of Warcraft along with the Void, which was born from the absence of the former.

Pure Light cannot exist within the physical universe but shades of it manifest as holy magic.[6]

The naaru, enigmatic beings composed of shards of fractured Light, may be the purest expression of the Light in the physical universe. They taught the use of the Light to the draenei and other enlightened races, but others have come into the study and practice of Light-based magic of their own accord.[10]

So there we have it, and this falls in line with how Blizzard is treating it and how the Sunwell is being portrayed in lore. I've never seen anywhere that says the Sunwell is 50/50 arcane/Holy just that it's a mixture or contains both.

The prophet Velen sanctified the legendary Sunwell using the power of the Light, reigniting it as a fount of both arcane power and Holy Light.[44]

But a mixture doesn't automatically mean 50/50 and as I said all precedence the developers are setting is that Holy Light in the Sunwell is overpowering the arcane, even if it's still there.

[Garfurion]

I'm starting to think maybe this is why Wowhead made the article they did on High Elves. I think there are lots on the pro or neutral side that feel Ion didn't even take a moment to glance at the feedback and model suggestions/ customization suggestions that were brought up from the HE topics.

Maybe it was their way of bringing again to Blizzard's view. "Hey did you guys even take a look at this?" type of question. Because in the end no one can really say but Blizzard themselves. Ornyx may have said they were delivering feedback but how quickly does that feedback take to get reached? If it was soon, then wouldn't he have replied back in the threads instead of allowing it to continue?

Just seems like there is a huge disconnect between the few days before the Q/A where the discussion was encouraged to continue and then the tone-deaf response Ion gave that didn't acknowledge any feedback at all.

Even lore heavy peeps like Red Shirt Guy chimed in on how soured they felt over Ion's response because it's plain as day to see that Void Elves existence screws up every reason Ion gave. Not that he minds Void Elves as an okay compromise. So it's pretty clear the main annoyance from most, even peeps like Taliesin is just: Own up to it bro.

I think people are rightfully pointing out that it would've been a lot better to just admit, "hey we don't want to do em" instead of the ignorant response Ion gave. I mean he literally said the exact same stuff he said at Blizzcon, meaning he hasn't refuted any of the reasons given for inclusion of High Elves.

The more Blizzard says about High Elves, the more they would undermine Void Elves so they won't respond any further and any interviewer will probably have to promise not to bring up the subject.

Blizzard repeated the mistakes they made with the Draenei introduction when introducing Void Elves and it will take multiple expansions to fix it if that is even possible.

[Aeula]

Blizzard is a mother that got one of her children, let's call him Hordey, a toy one day. Blizzard mother gave little Hordey a little pink doll with green eyes. Hordey loved this doll, and played with it for about... 40% of his free time.
But there was a problem, Hordey's twin brother, Alliancebert was insanely jealous of this toy. Alliancebert screamed and cried for his twin brother's toy, saying that it belonged to him and that he deserved it way more than Hordey. After throwing this tantrum for hours, Blizzard mother finally gave in and brought Alliancebert a present. "Open it, Alliancebert, I'm sure you'll love it!" Blizzard mother said, though the tantrum only grew louder and more fierce as Alliancebert threw his new toy across the room. "No! I want what Hordey has!" Alliancebert screeched. "But, son, it's just like your brothers, but it's purple instead of pink. If I give you the same exact toy, wouldn't it not be special any more?" Alliance mother asked, only to be met by more crying and screaming. "No! I want his toy! Give me his toy! It's mine! It's my toy!" Alliancebert cried and cried and cried...

Accurate depiction of the Pro-High Elf mentality circa 2005-2018.

[FlubberPuddy]

thank you. but sadly their doing damage control and we all know well blizzard does that.

I think we will see a reduction in the amount of High Elf topics and I believe that was their main goal, something they're not going to do anytime soon at all so having lots of topic on it right now is pushing probably more forefront topics that they would like to see.

I think as long as people can continue discussing High Elves though, then that's good enough as far as forum-going goes. While I am disgruntled by how they answered the question, I'm glad enough that many are seeing how it was really nothing new at all and just deflection. Whether for just because they don't want to admit hamfisting Void Elves, or the faction wall etc. It's obvious to many that the way it was answered was poorly handled

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The more Blizzard says about High Elves, the more they would undermine Void Elves so they won't respond any further and any interviewer will probably have to promise not to bring up the subject.

Blizzard repeated the mistakes they made with the Draenei introduction when introducing Void Elves and it will take multiple expansions to fix it if that is even possible.

I'm sure they'll keep mum on the subject now. I mean Ion acknowledged "I know i'm going to get hate mail" etc, I think they understand with the responses from some high ranking community peeps that it's best to "stay inside the house" for now lol, before more PR blunder.

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Hey @ercarp your artwork is truly a joy to see glad I could help but you're the one using your magical artwork to bring the ideas to life! Just like @Traycor and Talendrion and all the various other High Elf fan art I really appreciate all the hard work you peeps do!

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And wanted to chime in on the Lor'themar lets High Elves have pilgrimages to the Sunwell. I think people are blowing this out of proportion to mean that the vast majority of High Elves actually do.

If that were the case then we'd see more often in-game and novels /etc where Blood Elves and High Elves have a good relationship. Instead we haven't, the vast majority of times they're shown to be interacting with each other they're venomously hateful toward the other.

Lor'themar "allowing pilgrimage and not denying it" is the same as for instance a pastor saying that other members of the Church cannot stop a certain group of that Church from coming. But if that certain group if already miffed with the vast other members of that Church, most are probably not going to go to the Church anyway.

Allowing =/= everyone is doing it, or even that a majority are. Probably it's mainly a few HE citizens here and there.

But again, I know we have a case of MMO-Citis where 1 or 2 or so beings are considered to be "oh everyone is doing it now"

[Sorrior]

I think we will see a reduction in the amount of High Elf topics and I believe that was their main goal, something they're not going to do anytime soon at all so having lots of topic on it right now is pushing probably more forefront topics that they would like to see.

I think as long as people can continue discussing High Elves though, then that's good enough as far as forum-going goes. While I am disgruntled by how they answered the question, I'm glad enough that many are seeing how it was really nothing new at all and just deflection. Whether for just because they don't want to admit hamfisting Void Elves, or the faction wall etc. It's obvious to many that the way it was answered was poorly handled

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I'm sure they'll keep mum on the subject now. I mean Ion acknowledged "I know i'm going to get hate mail" etc, I think they understand with the responses from some high ranking community peeps that it's best to "stay inside the house" for now lol, before more PR blunder.

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Hey @ercarp your artwork is truly a joy to see glad I could help but you're the one using your magical artwork to bring the ideas to life! Just like @Traycor and Talendrion and all the various other High Elf fan art I really appreciate all the hard work you peeps do!

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And wanted to chime in on the Lor'themar lets High Elves have pilgrimages to the Sunwell. I think people are blowing this out of proportion to mean that the vast majority of High Elves actually do.

If that were the case then we'd see more often in-game and novels /etc where Blood Elves and High Elves have a good relationship. Instead we haven't, the vast majority of times they're shown to be interacting with each other they're venomously hateful toward the other.

Lor'themar "allowing pilgrimage and not denying it" is the same as for instance a pastor saying that other members of the Church cannot stop a certain group of that Church from coming. But if that certain group if already miffed with the vast other members of that Church, most are probably not going to go to the Church anyway.

Allowing =/= everyone is doing it, or even that a majority are. Probably it's mainly a few HE citizens here and there.

But again, I know we have a case of MMO-Citis where 1 or 2 or so beings are considered to be "oh everyone is doing it now"

A real world example might actually be Jerusalem i think it is. A holy place for multiple religions so ot is a pseudo neutral ground buuut those not in control merely tolerate others going.

[Darththeo]

Let's have that bet then.

Well, it is hard to have a bet given it would require Man'ari to you know be playable or possibly playable.

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Ok, so it exists, and they have explained that they want factions to remain distinct. What more can you possibly want? At minimum, if you're trying to argue that it isn't a thing, you're going to have to give some kind of evidence other than "Oh, they're just lying."

That's a gross simplification. I am not saying they are lying, I am saying their actions contradict their statements. That doesn't mean they are lying. Lying implies intent for the most part. For actions contradicting statements could be lying, could be laziness, etc ... lying is only a possibility of my stance, not my stance.

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i say its more about blizz inconsistency, but i think the point is, gving HE to alliance would be like giving blue eredar to horde( not the red ones) and its bad anyway.

I don't see it as "bad" or "good" or anything ... it's literally neutral. It doesn't take away from the Horde. It doesn't give special treatment to the Alliance. Why yes it "could" do that ... that more about how they do it rather than simply just because they did it.

[protip]

I want to chime in on the Gold Eye BE topic too. Blizzard has admitted that going forward, you will see BE Paladins and Priests having the Gold Eyes, all other NPC BEs are still going to have the Fel Green.

They just also made it available to all Players, whether the player wants to put it on a BE Warlock is up to them for instance.

But Blizzard themselves are actually only giving the eyes to Paladins and Priests to show the forward progression from the Sunwell story. Doesn't mean every BE can now have Gold Eyes, playable ones can because it's more a gameplay choice to allow all types of BEs to have it (imagine the shit show if only Paladin and Priest BEs could access it?) but NPC ones it's dedicated to those closest to the Light.

Why won't they add Blue Eyes to BEs? Simple, another gameplay reason, to differentiate from High Elves - whether on Alliance or neutral. As you can see with the BE mouth fixes, if Blue Eyes were on the table for BEs it would've happened at the same time as the Gold Eyes.

Also just because the Sunwell is made of Holy Light and arcane, doesn't mean for instance the Holy Light can't overpower the arcane portion of it.

Ion said that blue eyes were on the table for Blood Elves.

Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know?

I agree that they haven't added it yet because they wanted to differentiate between High Elves and Blood Elves for gameplay reasons, but this was his own suggestion. He had no reason to bring it up other than to say that if you wanted to play a High Elf, it was more likely to see it as a Blood Elf customization option.

[Deleted]

I'm starting to think maybe this is why Wowhead made the article they did on High Elves. I think there are lots on the pro or neutral side that feel Ion didn't even take a moment to glance at the feedback and model suggestions/ customization suggestions that were brought up from the HE topics.

Maybe it was their way of bringing again to Blizzard's view. "Hey did you guys even take a look at this?" type of question. Because in the end no one can really say but Blizzard themselves. Ornyx may have said they were delivering feedback but how quickly does that feedback take to get reached? If it was soon, then wouldn't he have replied back in the threads instead of allowing it to continue?

Just seems like there is a huge disconnect between the few days before the Q/A where the discussion was encouraged to continue and then the tone-deaf response Ion gave that didn't acknowledge any feedback at all.

Even lore heavy peeps like Red Shirt Guy chimed in on how soured they felt over Ion's response because it's plain as day to see that Void Elves existence screws up every reason Ion gave. Not that he minds Void Elves as an okay compromise. So it's pretty clear the main annoyance from most, even peeps like Taliesin is just: Own up to it bro.

I think people are rightfully pointing out that it would've been a lot better to just admit, "hey we don't want to do em" instead of the ignorant response Ion gave. I mean he literally said the exact same stuff he said at Blizzcon, meaning he hasn't refuted any of the reasons given for inclusion of High Elves.

Ion's response was really pretty baffling in how unprofessional it was.

First of all, Ion's response didn't give any indication that he ever bothered to check why people want High Elves, what are their suggestions and how High Elves even have been represented in WoW till now. I don't have an issue with a game director not looking into every single thing people are talking about, but if the topic has been one of the, if not the most discussed one for many months among the community, then I absolutely do have an issue with it, no matter what the topic is about. The fact that Ion didn't look into it is really baffling.

Secondly, ok, Ion was too lazy or too busy to look into the topic and he was absolutely sure that he is not implementing High Elves no matter what anyway. So why expose himself that he didn't read the feedback? Why say anything at all about High Elves, except for "there are no plans for them" that he has also said anyway? Add something like "we already have added two elf races just now" and that's it, here is your perfect neutral answer. Speaking in details about the issue that you haven't looked into makes no sense. Was he really that confident that he knew what people are talking about without actually checking? Or did he think that the hundreds of thousands of posts about High Elves consisted only of different versions of "I want High Elves" and that fans didn't scrutinize every single argument, every single Blizzard's word about High Elves, counted every single High Elf NPC and wrote loads of different suggestions? Because if he didn't, then he is one naive guy.

[baskev]

Blizzard is a mother that got one of her children, let's call him Hordey, a toy one day. Blizzard mother gave little Hordey a little pink doll with green eyes. Hordey loved this doll, and played with it for about... 40% of his free time.
But there was a problem, Hordey's twin brother, Alliancebert was insanely jealous of this toy. Alliancebert screamed and cried for his twin brother's toy, saying that it belonged to him and that he deserved it way more than Hordey. After throwing this tantrum for hours, Blizzard mother finally gave in and brought Alliancebert a present. "Open it, Alliancebert, I'm sure you'll love it!" Blizzard mother said, though the tantrum only grew louder and more fierce as Alliancebert threw his new toy across the room. "No! I want what Hordey has!" Alliancebert screeched. "But, son, it's just like your brothers, but it's purple instead of pink. If I give you the same exact toy, wouldn't it not be special any more?" Alliance mother asked, only to be met by more crying and screaming. "No! I want his toy! Give me his toy! It's mine! It's my toy!" Alliancebert cried and cried and cried...

Lol....yeah...wrong description.

It should be.

It is Christmas Hordey and Alliancebert have sent their wishlist in. Alliancebert is hoping for the best because Hordey has been getting the more expensive gifts and things from his wishlist the last few years. And Alliancebert is sure this year he will not get broken toys, things he has no use for or hand me downs that are broken.

But guess what...Christmas morning They open their presents. Hordey is happy. He has gotten everything he wanted. He even got stuff Alliancebert wanted. The most expensive toy's, dozens and dozens of them.

The alliancebert is happy. If hordey is getting this much i must be getting something nice to...he opens his presents...he got 2 . A robe and rock....that his parents took from his room to re give.


Its so funny. You all act like the alliance is getting anything NEAR what the horde is getting. We are not. We are so far behind is laughable. And before you start and laugh....think about this..it could be the other way around....remember when people started to cry about sylvanna's being the new garrosh. Did we make fun of that..nope. because we are not low lives like you.

[Ithekro]

The other potential option is that Ion knows the story going ahead a few patches (to perhaps the plot for the next expansion) and the fate of the High Elves is already written (thus the idea of Blood Elves having blue eyes being on the table).

[Zulkhan]

It's funny how people keep saying "Ion didn't address the reasons why people want High Elves" yet not considering the possibility that these reasons aren't addressed simply because they're not considered important or valid at all, mentioning only what ultimately matters.

[RangerDaz]

Accurate depiction of the Pro-High Elf mentality circa 2005-2018.

Nope.
Check my signature.

I approve alliance high elves due to lore reasons and because i rhink they will bring good and interesting plot stories.

I already have high level blood elves and im keeping them.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion said that blue eyes were on the table for Blood Elves.

Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know?

I agree that they haven't added it yet because they wanted to differentiate between High Elves and Blood Elves for gameplay reasons, but this was his own suggestion. He had no reason to bring it up other than to say that if you wanted to play a High Elf, it was more likely to see it as a Blood Elf customization option.

That is not what I took from him saying that, it just sounded like more trolling. The full context in which he says this is:

That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves...you're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.

He says this just after the Horde is waiting for you (obvious troll line) and then right before saying no plans near term to add High Elves. Means he understands they are a different entity.

I'm not going to argue with those who think it meant Blue Eyes for Blood Elves btw, just sharing why I personally don't think that's what it meant. I took it to mean him saying that Eye color isn't a difference enough for a separate added allied race.

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It's funny how people keep saying "Ion didn't address the reasons why people want High Elves" yet not considering the possibility that these reasons aren't addressed simply because they're not considered important or valid at all, mentioning only what ultimately matters.

Also possible he just gave a tone-deaf reply. Since neither way can be proven sort of means both possibilities are valid? Feel free to disagree

[RangerDaz]

Ion's response was really pretty baffling in how unprofessional it was.

This sums up what i thought about his statement related to high elves. When you represent a company you cant simply mock a group of your buyers. He knew how sensitive it was due to a big group of fans wishing for it and he handled the situation like a rhino running freely inside a glass items shop. But well he is chosen to represent blizzard for now. So unless someone from blizzard says something else this is blizz current statement about high elves.

[protip]

That is not what I took from him saying that, it just sounded like more trolling. The full context in which he says this is:

He says this just after the Horde is waiting for you (obvious troll line) and then right before saying no plans near term to add High Elves. Means he understands they are a different entity.

I'm not going to argue with those who think it meant Blue Eyes for Blood Elves btw, just sharing why I personally don't think that's what it meant. I took it to mean him saying that Eye color isn't a difference enough for a separate added allied race.

It's fair enough if you feel that way, but my interpretation honestly isn't that he was trolling, even about the "the Horde is there waiting for you" bit. If each race is an exclusive option, you really do have to choose between faction and race when they aren't aligned. His choice of words was obviously pretty snarky, but I don't think they were really meant as a joke.

The other potential option is that Ion knows the story going ahead a few patches (to perhaps the plot for the next expansion) and the fate of the High Elves is already written (thus the idea of Blood Elves having blue eyes being on the table).

That would make sense, and I'm sure they don't expect people to stop talking about it while there are still Alliance high elves in the game. They apparently made a decision to go with Void Elves in place of High Elves, so I expect they'll have to tie up loose ends at some point. It would also be another reason not to talk about any groups of high elves in specific terms.

[Traveler Voltin]

Ion's response was really pretty baffling in how unprofessional it was.

First of all, Ion's response didn't give any indication that he ever bothered to check why people want High Elves, what are their suggestions and how High Elves even have been represented in WoW till now. I don't have an issue with a game director not looking into every single thing people are talking about, but if the topic has been one of the, if not the most discussed one for many months among the community, then I absolutely do have an issue with it, no matter what the topic is about. The fact that Ion didn't look into it is really baffling.

Secondly, ok, Ion was too lazy or too busy to look into the topic and he was absolutely sure that he is not implementing High Elves no matter what anyway. So why expose himself that he didn't read the feedback? Why say anything at all about High Elves, except for "there are no plans for them" that he has also said anyway? Add something like "we already have added two elf races just now" and that's it, here is your perfect neutral answer. Speaking in details about the issue that you haven't looked into makes no sense. Was he really that confident that he knew what people are talking about without actually checking? Or did he think that the hundreds of thousands of posts about High Elves consisted only of different versions of "I want High Elves" and that fans didn't scrutinize every single argument, every single Blizzard's word about High Elves, counted every single High Elf NPC and wrote loads of different suggestions? Because if he didn't, then he is one naive guy.

1. he has been saying the same thing every Q&A for months "high elves are blood elves. blood elves are high elves"
2. he could have responded a lot worse because it sounds like he is getting annoyed having to answer the same question every Q&A

[In Ogres We Trust]

1. he has been saying the same thing every Q&A for months "high elves are blood elves. blood elves are high elves"
2. he could have responded a lot worse because it sounds like he is getting annoyed having to answer the same question every Q&A

But the Blood Elves aren't High Elves. Blizzard should just give them to neutral treatment, and utilize/develop the Nightborne to counter the Night Elves as the Horde's primary elven force.

P.S. Alienating customers is pointless.

[Andromedes]

1. he has been saying the same thing every Q&A for months "high elves are blood elves. blood elves are high elves"
2. he could have responded a lot worse because it sounds like he is getting annoyed having to answer the same question every Q&A

Why are void elves like Liadrin or Lor'themar allowed to go near sunwell, but void elves like Alleria or Vereesa aren't? I am confused.