Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Don't be silly. Void elves don't spout tentacles in game (unless they are a Spriest ... my Velf Hunter just occasionally gets more purple). Also, skin tone is as extreme a change as eye color. The difference isn't that much more extreme than political. Just because YOU view it as a huge change doesn't make it so. It literally isn't.

I don't think the parroting technique, of changing the words in the original quote and repeating them back quite work here because you are completely wrong. It only works if you are right or have a more substantive point to make.

Firstly, Void Elves do sprout tentacles. Plenty of them have tentacles interwoven with their hairstyles. No Blood Elves have tentacles interwoven into their hairstyle and any Void Elf in any class they can play can have the tentacles.

Skin tone is a far more extreme change than eye colour. Elves manifest the magic they are feeding on through the glow in their eyes. When they fed on an Arcane Sunwell, the glint was blue. When they were exposed to substantial amounts of fel energy, it shifted to green. Now that the Sunwell is a font of holy and arcane energies, some Blod Elves are beginning to manifest golden eyes.

Skin tone shifts only occur with more profound transformations, such as into Felbood Elves or into Void Elves. To equate a natural reaction of a thalassian elf to a magic source with a skin tone shift only seen after much more profound transformations is another false equivalence unsupported by lore, peddled in an attempt to support a blatant falsehood;that blood elves = high elves = void elves.

This is demonstrably incorrect.

[Aldo Hawk]

I’ve made plenty of constructive posts, but this debate is over. All that’s left are people in denial, kicking and screaming against what was inevitable. The Alliance will not be getting High Elves.

You want this debate to be over before time because you don't want anything you don't like to be considered.

Tell me why this debate is over, are you going to say that Ion spoken? are you going to tell me any kind of that bullshit? or are you going to accept the fact that there is anything stoping this debate to continue?

This is going to still while Blizzard do not come with a proper answer, it saying that they do not want to do it, adding them, wiping the HE population or transforming them, or adding HE to the VE lore in form of Alleria recruiting Vereesa and his followers.

But please, if you are going to still using Ion's words as any kind of autorithy fallacy, please, consider your bias or get lost.

[Obelisk Kai]

As usual, you are just turning the table as you please without caring it makes any sense.

Opposing the High Elf discussion is easy because those who don't want high elves can simply come to the threads and make people angry with mean responses that do not give anything constructive, while those who want HE can't simply let the threads because it means a surrender and not pointing their objectives.

The HE discussion has not been won or lost, it is in the same state as before the last Q&A, if you can't see past that is not my problem.

The last word we had on playable High Elves prior to the last Q and A was that they were already available as Blood Elves. In other words, you had lost the debate. As Ion restated this fact during the Q and A and showed that six months of spamming multiple Warcraft forums hadn't resulted in any movement on their stance, it meant that after the Q and A the pro High Elf position had still lost.

So we can agree that the discussion is in the same place as it was prior to the Q and A, the pro High Elf community has received a clear no, it is unable to accept the validity of the anti arguments which Ion basically repeated word for word in his answer and this thread will continue until such time as Battle for Azeroth launches and gives everyone something far better to do.

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This is going to still while Blizzard do not come with a proper answer, it saying that they do not want to do it, adding them, wiping the HE population or transforming them, or adding HE to the VE lore in form of Alleria recruiting Vereesa and his followers.

But please, if you are going to still using Ion's words as any kind of autorithy fallacy, please, consider your bias or get lost.

They have answered you twice and far better questions have gone unanswered to give you that. It is the height of arrogance to declare that because the answer you received was not the one you wanted to hear that it was not a proper answer.

They have lore reasons. They have gameplay reasons. But as you don't want to accept the validity of those reasons, accept this one because it's blatantly obvious.

They don't want to do it.

[Darththeo]

I don't think the parroting technique, of changing the words in the original quote and repeating them back quite work here because you are completely wrong. It only works if you are right or have a more substantive point to make.

Firstly, Void Elves do sprout tentacles. Plenty of them have tentacles interwoven with their hairstyles. No Blood Elves have tentacles interwoven into their hairstyle and any Void Elf in any class they can play can have the tentacles.

Skin tone is NOT as extreme a change as eye colour. Elves manifest the magic they are feeding on through the glow in their eyes. When they fed on an Arcane Sunwell, the glint was blue. When they were exposed to substantial amounts of fel energy, it shifted to green. Now that the Sunwell is a font of holy and arcane energies, some Blod Elves are beginning to manifest golden eyes.

Skin tone shifts only occur with more profound transformations, such as into Felbood Elves or into Void Elves. To equate a natural reaction of a thalassian elf to a magic source with a skin tone shift only seen after much more profound transformations is another false equivalence unsupported by lore, peddled in an attempt to support a blatant falsehood;that blood elves = high elves = void elves.

This is demonstrably incorrect.

They literally don't have tentacles in their hair. Those aren't tentacles ... it is hair infused with void energy. (Note: I can see where you see it as a tentacle, I don't see it as a tentacle and I am literally not the only one).

You seem to think because something is "profound" in your view it makes it more extreme. That is just not true. The void elves didn't do much to gain outside of expose themselves to void energies. It's not false because you can't accept the reality you are splitting hairs. I am fine with you saying Void Elves are not blood elves, but you can't say that AND say Blood Elves are high elves. If you don't have the decency to address my argument as presented, do us both a favor and not respond.

You can either believe Void Elf = Blood Elf = High Elf or Void Elf =/= Blood Elf =/= High Elf ... anything else is hypocritical.

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Yes, but no where near enough to make a physical change in terms of Fel, moreover they are being cured of the corruption.

Void Elves have been corrupt enough that it physically alters their appearances from that of High/Blood Elves. So.. try again.

We play a game where Brown Skin Orcs and Green Skin Orcs are the same race (Note: the playable "Mag'har Race" is from a separate timeline while Outlands has been shown to be the same race as the Green Skin), but Pink Skinned Elves and Purple Skinned Elves are totally different ... yeah, no.

Void Elves are a specific offshoot, not something separate from Blood Elves. They are all High Elves. As above, I don't care if you say Void Elves are different from Blood Elves ... I care if you say that plus High Elves are Blood Elves. Either they are all different or they are all the same ... you don't get to pick and choose on your leisure if you want anyone to take your opinion as valid.

[Aldo Hawk]

The last word we had on playable High Elves prior to the last Q and A was that they were already available as Blood Elves. In other words, you had lost the debate. As Ion restated this fact during the Q and A and showed that six months of spamming multiple Warcraft forums hadn't resulted in any movement on their stance, it meant that after the Q and A the pro High Elf position had still lost.

So we can agree that the discussion is in the same place as it was prior to the Q and A, the pro High Elf community has received a clear no, it is unable to accept the validity of the anti arguments which Ion basically repeated word for word in his answer and this thread will continue until such time as Battle for Azeroth launches and gives everyone something far better to do.

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They have answered you twice and far better questions have gone unanswered to give you that. It is the height of arrogance to declare that because the answer you received was not the one you wanted to hear that it was not a proper answer.

They have lore reasons. They have gameplay reasons. But as you don't want to accept the validity of those reasons, accept this one because it's blatantly obvious.

They don't want to do it.

Omg you are clearly blinded..

Saying we already have BE is not saying that HE aren't there in the alliance, do you understand that?

And while you point lore and gameplay reasons... well, i know that you don't care but there's tons of suggestion to modify HE to be different and still resembling a HE and lore reasons against HE are not nearly reachable...

The answers Ion gave twice got debunked many times, is not the answer i want to hear, is the answer it must be given, because giving reasons that simply do not have any weight is anything but useful.

I repeat, this is going to end when Blizzard do something about it, such as wiping HE population, transforming them, add them to the alliance playable options, or Alleria recruit them in their VE forces throught Vereesa (and no, this last one was not done, study void magic is not infuse yourself with it).

[Goldielocks]

They have lore reasons. They have gameplay reasons. But as you don't want to accept the validity of those reasons, accept this one because it's blatantly obvious.

They don't want to do it.

This will never happen. The HE zealots can't accept the devs did what they did mostly for subjective reasons, because that means they can't prove the devs wrong. Without that, the chance of the decision overturning (especially in the short term) greatly diminishes.

[Darththeo]

This will never happen. The HE zealots can't accept the devs did what they did mostly for subjective reasons, because that means they can't prove the devs wrong. Without that, the chance of the decision overturning (especially in the short term) greatly diminishes.

I haven't seen anyone who fits that description ... in fact that's the reason they are upset if anything. It is purely subjectively and their response is borderline insulting to the fan base.

[Obelisk Kai]

They literally don't have tentacles in their hair. Those aren't tentacles ... it is hair infused with void energy. (Note: I can see where you see it as a tentacle, I don't see it as a tentacle and I am literally not the only one).

Those are tentacles. It is not hair. This is not a case of us seeing different things, you are seeing things incorrectly.

You seem to think because something is "profound" in your view it makes it more extreme. That is just not true. The void elves didn't do much to gain outside of expose themselves to void energies.

They didn't expose themselves to Void energies. An ethereal interrupted what they were doing and deliberately began bombarding them with the energy to turn them into Ethereals.

It's not false because you can't accept the reality you are splitting hairs. I am fine with you saying Void Elves are not blood elves, but you can't say that AND say Blood Elves are high elves. If you don't have the decency to address my argument as presented, do us both a favor and not respond.

You are making stuff up! Blood Elves ARE High Elves because the devs say they, because they look identical, act identical and both feed on the Sunwell.

You are trying to invent an equivalence between two groups divided by a political opinion and a third that turned purple and sprouted tentacles.

You can either believe Void Elf = Blood Elf = High Elf or Void Elf =/= Blood Elf =/= High Elf ... anything else is hypocritical.

You have an unsustainable and indefensible position on this matter. A Void Elf is clearly different from Blood/High Elves. The later are divided by a political opinion. The former have been transformed and there are considerable differences between the two.

Your argument is ridiculous in other words.

[Goldielocks]

I haven't seen anyone who fits that description ... in fact that's the reason they are upset if anything. It is purely subjectively and their response is borderline insulting to the fan base.

You're really grasping at straws with this. What, now that you're insulted the devs need to make it up to you by giving you High Elves? What's the point of complaining like this otherwise?

[Darththeo]

You're really grasping at straws with this. What, now that you're insulted the devs need to make it up to you by giving you High Elves? What's the point of complaining like this otherwise?

Your reply makes no sense from what I posted. I am only saying fans deserve a better answer and better treatment.

Look at another question they get: Will Allied Races get to be hero classes? ... have they ever gone "Go play a base race if you want to be that." ... no. They have always answered "We are considering it for the future, but no current plans." Hell, they could merely say "There are no current plans to add High Elves as playable." without adding what basically "Go play Horde."

[Obelisk Kai]

Omg you are clearly blinded..

And you have trouble hearing what the developers say it seems.

Saying we already have BE is not saying that HE aren't there in the alliance, do you understand that?

And? So what?

You have High Elves in the Alliance. Doesn't change a damn thing. They are present as a playable race in the Horde.

And while you point lore and gameplay reasons... well, i know that you don't care but there's tons of suggestion to modify HE to be different and still resembling a HE and lore reasons against HE are not nearly reachable...

If the end result is a fair skinned elf that is called a High Elf it is unacceptable because it encroaches on the race and theme, both of which are now part of the Horde's theme. You are trying to reinvent the wheel to justify this desire.

If you are willing to change so much to get an approximation, ask for the Half Elves nobody cares about.

The answers Ion gave twice got debunked many times, is not the answer i want to hear, is the answer it must be given, because giving reasons that simply do not have any weight is anything but useful.

To say Ion's reasons were debunked is to give credit to the weak rationale behind playable High Elves he rejected. You agree with the 'debunking' because it's what you want to hear. I heard what I wanted to hear too of course, but I heard from the lead developer and not an upset pro High Elf poster who thinks he knows more about the game than the man paid to run it.

I repeat, this is going to end when Blizzard do something about it, such as wiping HE population, transforming them, add them to the alliance playable options, or Alleria recruit them in their VE forces throught Vereesa (and no, this last one was not done, study void magic is not infuse yourself with it).

No, this is already over. All those scenarios are just to satisfy you personally that it's over. Blizzard could leave the High Elves to rot off screen or have them pop up from time to time as they do now like the story prop they obviously are, Blizzard doesn't have to do anything else on this matter than it already has, tell you 'no' and why they said 'no'.

[Darththeo]

Those are tentacles. It is not hair. This is not a case of us seeing different things, you are seeing things incorrectly.

I don't see those as void tentacles. They do not look like the void tentacles that appear elsewhere in game. They look like glowing hair.

They didn't expose themselves to Void energies. An ethereal interrupted what they were doing and deliberately began bombarding them with the energy to turn them into Ethereals.

That's splitting hairs ... again. The object they were using was infused with Void energies. They were exposing themselves to the energy.

You are making stuff up! Blood Elves ARE High Elves because the devs say they, because they look identical, act identical and both feed on the Sunwell.

You are trying to invent an equivalence between two groups divided by a political opinion and a third that turned purple and sprouted tentacles.

Again, no tentacles. They do not act identical ... one group sides mainly with the Alliance and the other mainly with the Horde with each having some members neutral. They literally do not act identical.

Also, just because you swallow what the devs says as truth doesn't mean everyone should.

You have an unsustainable and indefensible position on this matter. A Void Elf is clearly different from Blood/High Elves. The later are divided by a political opinion. The former have been transformed and there are considerable differences between the two.

Your argument is ridiculous in other words.

Just because you are incapable of thinking for yourself doesn't make my argument bad. Your entire counter is borderline insult to those who disagree and Devs say this! You ignore or push off ANYTHING that suggests you are wrong. There isn't "considerable" difference just because the devs declare it to be.

Again, either they are all the same or they are all different ... you don't get to pick and choose what matters.

[Goldielocks]

Your reply makes no sense from what I posted. I am only saying fans deserve a better answer and better treatment.

Look at another question they get: Will Allied Races get to be hero classes? ... have they ever gone "Go play a base race if you want to be that." ... no. They have always answered "We are considering it for the future, but no current plans." Hell, they could merely say "There are no current plans to add High Elves as playable." without adding what basically "Go play Horde."

No my reply makes perfect sense. It portrayed you as someone who has a plan in mind. I assumed better. Otherwise, this is basically you complaining because your feelings were hurt. About a video game. You realize how bad this looks, right?

You deserve nothing. I deserve nothing. Nobody deserves anything.

[ThatBloodElfEnjoyer]

You want this debate to be over before time because you don't want anything you don't like to be considered.

Tell me why this debate is over, are you going to say that Ion spoken? are you going to tell me any kind of that bullshit? or are you going to accept the fact that there is anything stoping this debate to continue?

This is going to still while Blizzard do not come with a proper answer, it saying that they do not want to do it, adding them, wiping the HE population or transforming them, or adding HE to the VE lore in form of Alleria recruiting Vereesa and his followers.

But please, if you are going to still using Ion's words as any kind of autorithy fallacy, please, consider your bias or get lost.

You’ve had 13 years worth of Blizzard’s stance being to not add them and it was just recently reinforced.

It’s over. Let go of your denial and accept it.

[Darththeo]

No my reply makes perfect sense. It portrayed you as someone who has a plan in mind. I assumed better. Otherwise, this is basically you complaining because your feelings were hurt. About a video game. You realize how bad this looks, right?

You deserve nothing. I deserve nothing. Nobody deserves anything.

I have stated numerous times, I honestly don't care if High Elves become playable. My problem is solely with the reasons the Devs have given their fans. They are weak and they very much seem not to be true in game. I don't care if you see it as true, that's irrelevant.

And no, the fans ... you, myself and everyone deserves better than the answer Ion chose to give ... if you don't think so, you think pretty poorly of yourself.

[Combatbutler]

I don't see those as void tentacles. They do not look like the void tentacles that appear elsewhere in game. They look like glowing hair.

Those are still tentacles whether you see them as such or not.

[Darththeo]

Those are still tentacles whether you see them as such or not.

Those are still not tentacles whether you see them as such or not. See? That's a dumb argument. There are other hairstyles where the same effect is applied to something clearly hair and not tentacle in anyway. It is foolish to consider something a tentacle because it vaguely looks like one.

[Combatbutler]

Those are still not tentacles whether you see them as such or not. See? That's a dumb argument. There are other hairstyles where the same effect is applied to something clearly hair and not tentacle in anyway. It is foolish to consider something a tentacle because it vaguely looks like one.

Those are tentacles and not every void elf has them, but it does not change the fact that in many void elf hair styles are tentacles.

[Arrashi]

Ion Hazzikostas and by extention Blizzard had to make it personal with his "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired elf, the horde is their for you" comment.

"If you want to play horde race play horde" - now thats a shocker if i ever saw one. How dare he ?

Also, im sure he is utterly terrified by your declaration of war.

[Goldielocks]

I have stated numerous times, I honestly don't care if High Elves become playable. My problem is solely with the reasons the Devs have given their fans. They are weak and they very much seem not to be true in game. I don't care if you see it as true, that's irrelevant.

How are you not seeing that you're contradicting yourself? You replied to me criticizing pro Helfers, saying that I'm wrong about them trying to make the argument about objective reasoning. Yet, in what I have bolded in this reply, these are responses to objective reasoning.

Stop focusing on the quips that Ion gave. They're meaningless. The devs don't want to do it. That's all that matters. Focusing on the fluff he gave won't suddenly make him go "wow I'm wrong I better give them High Elves!" He clearly was on the spot and tried to convince people of their POV. Didn't work.