1. #4601
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The last word we had on playable High Elves prior to the last Q and A was that they were already available as Blood Elves. In other words, you had lost the debate. As Ion restated this fact during the Q and A and showed that six months of spamming multiple Warcraft forums hadn't resulted in any movement on their stance, it meant that after the Q and A the pro High Elf position had still lost.

    So we can agree that the discussion is in the same place as it was prior to the Q and A, the pro High Elf community has received a clear no, it is unable to accept the validity of the anti arguments which Ion basically repeated word for word in his answer and this thread will continue until such time as Battle for Azeroth launches and gives everyone something far better to do.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They have answered you twice and far better questions have gone unanswered to give you that. It is the height of arrogance to declare that because the answer you received was not the one you wanted to hear that it was not a proper answer.

    They have lore reasons. They have gameplay reasons. But as you don't want to accept the validity of those reasons, accept this one because it's blatantly obvious.

    They don't want to do it.
    Omg you are clearly blinded..

    Saying we already have BE is not saying that HE aren't there in the alliance, do you understand that?

    And while you point lore and gameplay reasons... well, i know that you don't care but there's tons of suggestion to modify HE to be different and still resembling a HE and lore reasons against HE are not nearly reachable...

    The answers Ion gave twice got debunked many times, is not the answer i want to hear, is the answer it must be given, because giving reasons that simply do not have any weight is anything but useful.

    I repeat, this is going to end when Blizzard do something about it, such as wiping HE population, transforming them, add them to the alliance playable options, or Alleria recruit them in their VE forces throught Vereesa (and no, this last one was not done, study void magic is not infuse yourself with it).
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2018-05-01 at 11:07 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #4602
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    They have lore reasons. They have gameplay reasons. But as you don't want to accept the validity of those reasons, accept this one because it's blatantly obvious.

    They don't want to do it.
    This will never happen. The HE zealots can't accept the devs did what they did mostly for subjective reasons, because that means they can't prove the devs wrong. Without that, the chance of the decision overturning (especially in the short term) greatly diminishes.

  3. #4603
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    This will never happen. The HE zealots can't accept the devs did what they did mostly for subjective reasons, because that means they can't prove the devs wrong. Without that, the chance of the decision overturning (especially in the short term) greatly diminishes.
    I haven't seen anyone who fits that description ... in fact that's the reason they are upset if anything. It is purely subjectively and their response is borderline insulting to the fan base.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  4. #4604
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    They literally don't have tentacles in their hair. Those aren't tentacles ... it is hair infused with void energy. (Note: I can see where you see it as a tentacle, I don't see it as a tentacle and I am literally not the only one).
    Those are tentacles. It is not hair. This is not a case of us seeing different things, you are seeing things incorrectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You seem to think because something is "profound" in your view it makes it more extreme. That is just not true. The void elves didn't do much to gain outside of expose themselves to void energies.
    They didn't expose themselves to Void energies. An ethereal interrupted what they were doing and deliberately began bombarding them with the energy to turn them into Ethereals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It's not false because you can't accept the reality you are splitting hairs. I am fine with you saying Void Elves are not blood elves, but you can't say that AND say Blood Elves are high elves. If you don't have the decency to address my argument as presented, do us both a favor and not respond.
    You are making stuff up! Blood Elves ARE High Elves because the devs say they, because they look identical, act identical and both feed on the Sunwell.

    You are trying to invent an equivalence between two groups divided by a political opinion and a third that turned purple and sprouted tentacles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You can either believe Void Elf = Blood Elf = High Elf or Void Elf =/= Blood Elf =/= High Elf ... anything else is hypocritical.
    You have an unsustainable and indefensible position on this matter. A Void Elf is clearly different from Blood/High Elves. The later are divided by a political opinion. The former have been transformed and there are considerable differences between the two.

    Your argument is ridiculous in other words.

  5. #4605
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I haven't seen anyone who fits that description ... in fact that's the reason they are upset if anything. It is purely subjectively and their response is borderline insulting to the fan base.
    You're really grasping at straws with this. What, now that you're insulted the devs need to make it up to you by giving you High Elves? What's the point of complaining like this otherwise?

  6. #4606
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    You're really grasping at straws with this. What, now that you're insulted the devs need to make it up to you by giving you High Elves? What's the point of complaining like this otherwise?
    Your reply makes no sense from what I posted. I am only saying fans deserve a better answer and better treatment.

    Look at another question they get: Will Allied Races get to be hero classes? ... have they ever gone "Go play a base race if you want to be that." ... no. They have always answered "We are considering it for the future, but no current plans." Hell, they could merely say "There are no current plans to add High Elves as playable." without adding what basically "Go play Horde."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #4607
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Omg you are clearly blinded..
    And you have trouble hearing what the developers say it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Saying we already have BE is not saying that HE aren't there in the alliance, do you understand that?
    And? So what?

    You have High Elves in the Alliance. Doesn't change a damn thing. They are present as a playable race in the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    And while you point lore and gameplay reasons... well, i know that you don't care but there's tons of suggestion to modify HE to be different and still resembling a HE and lore reasons against HE are not nearly reachable...
    If the end result is a fair skinned elf that is called a High Elf it is unacceptable because it encroaches on the race and theme, both of which are now part of the Horde's theme. You are trying to reinvent the wheel to justify this desire.

    If you are willing to change so much to get an approximation, ask for the Half Elves nobody cares about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The answers Ion gave twice got debunked many times, is not the answer i want to hear, is the answer it must be given, because giving reasons that simply do not have any weight is anything but useful.
    To say Ion's reasons were debunked is to give credit to the weak rationale behind playable High Elves he rejected. You agree with the 'debunking' because it's what you want to hear. I heard what I wanted to hear too of course, but I heard from the lead developer and not an upset pro High Elf poster who thinks he knows more about the game than the man paid to run it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I repeat, this is going to end when Blizzard do something about it, such as wiping HE population, transforming them, add them to the alliance playable options, or Alleria recruit them in their VE forces throught Vereesa (and no, this last one was not done, study void magic is not infuse yourself with it).
    No, this is already over. All those scenarios are just to satisfy you personally that it's over. Blizzard could leave the High Elves to rot off screen or have them pop up from time to time as they do now like the story prop they obviously are, Blizzard doesn't have to do anything else on this matter than it already has, tell you 'no' and why they said 'no'.

  8. #4608
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Those are tentacles. It is not hair. This is not a case of us seeing different things, you are seeing things incorrectly.
    I don't see those as void tentacles. They do not look like the void tentacles that appear elsewhere in game. They look like glowing hair.

    They didn't expose themselves to Void energies. An ethereal interrupted what they were doing and deliberately began bombarding them with the energy to turn them into Ethereals.
    That's splitting hairs ... again. The object they were using was infused with Void energies. They were exposing themselves to the energy.


    You are making stuff up! Blood Elves ARE High Elves because the devs say they, because they look identical, act identical and both feed on the Sunwell.

    You are trying to invent an equivalence between two groups divided by a political opinion and a third that turned purple and sprouted tentacles.
    Again, no tentacles. They do not act identical ... one group sides mainly with the Alliance and the other mainly with the Horde with each having some members neutral. They literally do not act identical.

    Also, just because you swallow what the devs says as truth doesn't mean everyone should.

    You have an unsustainable and indefensible position on this matter. A Void Elf is clearly different from Blood/High Elves. The later are divided by a political opinion. The former have been transformed and there are considerable differences between the two.

    Your argument is ridiculous in other words.
    Just because you are incapable of thinking for yourself doesn't make my argument bad. Your entire counter is borderline insult to those who disagree and Devs say this! You ignore or push off ANYTHING that suggests you are wrong. There isn't "considerable" difference just because the devs declare it to be.

    Again, either they are all the same or they are all different ... you don't get to pick and choose what matters.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  9. #4609
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Your reply makes no sense from what I posted. I am only saying fans deserve a better answer and better treatment.

    Look at another question they get: Will Allied Races get to be hero classes? ... have they ever gone "Go play a base race if you want to be that." ... no. They have always answered "We are considering it for the future, but no current plans." Hell, they could merely say "There are no current plans to add High Elves as playable." without adding what basically "Go play Horde."
    No my reply makes perfect sense. It portrayed you as someone who has a plan in mind. I assumed better. Otherwise, this is basically you complaining because your feelings were hurt. About a video game. You realize how bad this looks, right?

    You deserve nothing. I deserve nothing. Nobody deserves anything.

  10. #4610
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    You want this debate to be over before time because you don't want anything you don't like to be considered.

    Tell me why this debate is over, are you going to say that Ion spoken? are you going to tell me any kind of that bullshit? or are you going to accept the fact that there is anything stoping this debate to continue?

    This is going to still while Blizzard do not come with a proper answer, it saying that they do not want to do it, adding them, wiping the HE population or transforming them, or adding HE to the VE lore in form of Alleria recruiting Vereesa and his followers.

    But please, if you are going to still using Ion's words as any kind of autorithy fallacy, please, consider your bias or get lost.
    You’ve had 13 years worth of Blizzard’s stance being to not add them and it was just recently reinforced.

    It’s over. Let go of your denial and accept it.

  11. #4611
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    No my reply makes perfect sense. It portrayed you as someone who has a plan in mind. I assumed better. Otherwise, this is basically you complaining because your feelings were hurt. About a video game. You realize how bad this looks, right?

    You deserve nothing. I deserve nothing. Nobody deserves anything.
    I have stated numerous times, I honestly don't care if High Elves become playable. My problem is solely with the reasons the Devs have given their fans. They are weak and they very much seem not to be true in game. I don't care if you see it as true, that's irrelevant.

    And no, the fans ... you, myself and everyone deserves better than the answer Ion chose to give ... if you don't think so, you think pretty poorly of yourself.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  12. #4612
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I don't see those as void tentacles. They do not look like the void tentacles that appear elsewhere in game. They look like glowing hair.
    Those are still tentacles whether you see them as such or not.

  13. #4613
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Those are still tentacles whether you see them as such or not.
    Those are still not tentacles whether you see them as such or not. See? That's a dumb argument. There are other hairstyles where the same effect is applied to something clearly hair and not tentacle in anyway. It is foolish to consider something a tentacle because it vaguely looks like one.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #4614
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Those are still not tentacles whether you see them as such or not. See? That's a dumb argument. There are other hairstyles where the same effect is applied to something clearly hair and not tentacle in anyway. It is foolish to consider something a tentacle because it vaguely looks like one.
    Those are tentacles and not every void elf has them, but it does not change the fact that in many void elf hair styles are tentacles.

  15. #4615
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post

    Ion Hazzikostas and by extention Blizzard had to make it personal with his "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired elf, the horde is their for you" comment.
    "If you want to play horde race play horde" - now thats a shocker if i ever saw one. How dare he ?

    Also, im sure he is utterly terrified by your declaration of war.

  16. #4616
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I have stated numerous times, I honestly don't care if High Elves become playable. My problem is solely with the reasons the Devs have given their fans. They are weak and they very much seem not to be true in game. I don't care if you see it as true, that's irrelevant.
    How are you not seeing that you're contradicting yourself? You replied to me criticizing pro Helfers, saying that I'm wrong about them trying to make the argument about objective reasoning. Yet, in what I have bolded in this reply, these are responses to objective reasoning.

    Stop focusing on the quips that Ion gave. They're meaningless. The devs don't want to do it. That's all that matters. Focusing on the fluff he gave won't suddenly make him go "wow I'm wrong I better give them High Elves!" He clearly was on the spot and tried to convince people of their POV. Didn't work.

  17. #4617
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    How are you not seeing that you're contradicting yourself? You replied to me criticizing pro Helfers, saying that I'm wrong about them trying to make the argument about objective reasoning. Yet, in what I have bolded in this reply, these are responses to objective reasoning.

    Stop focusing on the quips that Ion gave. They're meaningless. The devs don't want to do it. That's all that matters. Focusing in the fluff he gave won't suddenly make him go "wow I'm wrong I better give them High Elves!"
    I don't think you know what the word contradiction means. As for the rest, I agree ... my response to you was because nothing you said actually countered the issue Pro-Helfers are arguing for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Those are tentacles and not every void elf has them, but it does not change the fact that in many void elf hair styles are tentacles.
    Those are not tentacles. They don't look like void tentacles ... they look like a dreadlock ... which is hair. Just declaring something a tentacle doesn't make it a tentacle.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  18. #4618
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I don't see those as void tentacles. They do not look like the void tentacles that appear elsewhere in game. They look like glowing hair.

    The Void Elf hair styles which include tentacles also include hair and you can clearly tell the difference between Void Elf hair and Void Elf tentacles...I am not going to argue this with you. If you can't see that they are tentacles I recommend loading up wow and spending a good deal of time examining the hairstyles to understand that you are wrong on this point.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That's splitting hairs ... again. The object they were using was infused with Void energies. They were exposing themselves to the energy.
    It's the difference between getting sprayed by a water gun and falling into the sea. It is the intensity of the exposure that is key here and which you are ignoring to create your false equivalence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    They do not act identical ... one group sides mainly with the Alliance and the other mainly with the Horde with each having some members neutral. They literally do not act identical.
    In other words the sole difference between the two is the political opinion as I said. Guess what? That is nowhere near enough to justify breaking the faction wall for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Also, just because you swallow what the devs says as truth doesn't mean everyone should.
    This isn't philosophy or current events where everyone has a valid opinion. On a point of lore, the developers are automatically right. It is inarguable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Just because you are incapable of thinking for yourself doesn't make my argument bad.
    Your argument is bad because it relies on false equivalences that don't make sense and ignoring word of god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Your entire counter is borderline insult to those who disagree and Devs say this!
    Again, if the developers make a comment on a topic, that is pretty much it. Your problem is that they didn't agree with your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You ignore or push off ANYTHING that suggests you are wrong.
    The irony of this statement considering not five days ago we got confirmation that I was completely right and that you are ignoring or pushing off what Ion said.
    He even confirmed that the core of my opposition, the faction wall, was the reason High Elves aren't getting added.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    There isn't "considerable" difference just because the devs declare it to be.
    Yes, there is. And if you took the time to look at the void themed, purple, tentacled Void Elves you'd see it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Again, either they are all the same or they are all different ... you don't get to pick and choose what matters.
    The idea that a Void Elf is identical to a Blood Elf/High Elf because a Blood Elf and a High Elf are identical to each other isn't really worthy of argument.

    Void Elves are purple.

    No Blood/High Elf is purple.

    That is just the start of proving that the statement you are making is demonstrably wrong.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-05-01 at 11:44 PM.

  19. #4619
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The Void Elf hair styles which include tentacles also include hair and you can clearly tell the difference between Void Elf hair and Void Elf tentacles...I am not going to argue this with you. If you can't see that they are tentacles I recommend loading up wow and spending a good deal of time examining the hairstyles to understand that you are wrong on this point.





    It's the difference between getting sprayed by a water gun and falling into the sea. It is the intensity of the exposure that is key here and which you are ignoring to create your false equivalence.




    In other words the sole difference between the two is the political opinion as I said. Guess what? That is nowhere near enough to justify breaking the faction wall for.



    This isn't philosophy or current events where everyone has a valid opinion. On a point of lore, the developers are automatically right. It is inarguable.




    Your argument is bad because it relies on false equivalences that don't make sense and ignoring word of god.



    Again, if the developers make a comment on a topic, that is pretty much it. Your problem is that they didn't agree with your position.



    The irony of this statement considering not five days we got confirmation that I was completely right and that you are ignoring or pushing off what Ion said.
    He even confirmed that the core of my opposition, the faction wall, was the reason High Elves aren't getting added.





    Yes, there is.



    The idea that a Void Elf is identical to a Blood Elf/High Elf because a Blood Elf and a High Elf are identical to each other isn't really worthy of argument.

    Void Elves are purple.

    No Blood/High Elf is purple.

    That is just the start of proving that the statement you are making is demonstrably wrong.
    I am sorry ... are you going to put forth an argument more than nuh uh? Nothing you said proved anything and I feel I wasted my energy reading it. I don't care if you waste my time, but your entire argument is just you declaring that I am wrong without an actual argument.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  20. #4620
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Those are not tentacles. They don't look like void tentacles ... they look like a dreadlock ... which is hair. Just declaring something a tentacle doesn't make it a tentacle.
    Those aren't dreadlocks, they are fleshy appendices known as tentacles. Just take a real close look at them ingame.

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